Idahoron
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 1,980
The reasons I think a lot of people don't go to the commission meetings is because the notion that the commission members have their minds made up and nothing we say matters. I have to say that for the most part that is true. Over the last 25 + years I have went several times to commission meetings. I have asked begged pleaded, and tried to explain several things. Taking anything to the commission meeting is unproductive. The ONLY chance is the regional office. Make a case and discuss it with them. If they think you have a leg to stand on they might support the idea. If they recommend it to the commission there is a possibility for it to happen. I have seen this work with setting some regulations. When it comes down to the sportsman?s needs well good luck. Idaho faces some major problems, and until they are fixed Idaho will continue to be the state that used to be the place to go hunt.
We NEED birds and small animals for the upland game hunter!
Over the last 5 or so years the number of small game to hunt is disappearing. I don't care whether you are talking about Pheasants, Chukar, Huns, Sage grouse, or forest grouse. All of our upland birds are in trouble.
Private land is no longer accessible for the most part, and to many others, and me it looks like new hunter recruitment is lagging because of it. Fathers that are strapped for money just don't have the extra cash to go find a bird or a rabbit for little Johnny to shoot. When that happens the kids don't get to go hunting.
We NEED Deer for the Deer hunter!
Over the last several years Mule deer hunting is getting worse not better. TONS of money has been spent to improve the mule deer numbers but what has happened. We have fewer animals, the buck to doe ratios are heading down hill and the size of the deer we are hunting are getting smaller. We are no longer in the days of work hard and you will be rewarded. Even if a guy draws a unit 45 tag that is no guarantee you will get a decent buck. If you look at the fact that between the Draw tags, LAP tags, Super tags, and the unregulated Indian hunting unit 45 is being over hunted. Gone is the mature bucks that we all have drooled over in the past. Many super tags are being filled by bucks that we would not have even looked at in the past. A guy reading this might say so what, that is only one unit. Well it is the winter range for unit 43, 44, 45, and a little bit of 39,and maybe even 48. Over the last two years units 43 and 44 have had migrations that have started as early as September. If you wait for the rut to kick in for unit 43 and 44 you are only late by about 4 to 6 weeks on your hunt. Unit 49 has one of the lowest buck to doe ratios in the state. Unit 54 is being hunted to DEATH. Between the youth hunt, the regular draw, the late draw, and the unregulated archery hunting. That unit is on a downward slide as far as mature bucks go. Yes that area does produce a lot of opportunity. If you want to shoot a doe or a two point your in luck. And last on the list unit 47. This once great unit has been removed from the big buck hall of fame by excessive hunting, poaching, and loss of habitat. The loss of habitat has been from fire and over grazing.
We need elk for the elk hunters!
The last game animal I will mention is elk. Idaho at one time could have once been the number 1 state for residents and non-residents alike. Over the counter tags, generous seasons, unregulated archery hunting, and plenty of public land to hunt were all met with the ability to kill a 300-class bull about anywhere in the state. At one time I could have made the comment that anyone with a lick of knowledge about elk could kill a 300-class animal in ANY unit in the state. Those days are gone. Like mule deer, elk have been studied, and money has been thrown at them, for what? What is the reason for the elk populations to tank over the entire state? Well a lot of things come to my mind. Habitat loss, predation, and yes over hunting are the big three.
Habitat loss, this is the phrase that biologists like to use. Mainly, because it kind of takes some of the responsibility of low big game numbers off of their backs to some degree. While I agree that habitat improvement is important it is a VERY SLOW solution. The 14 year old boy that wants an elk does not care about the elk hunting in 10 or 20 years. He wants to get one now. If the need is not met the 14 year old will turn to something else. It is a simple fact that will happen.
Predation, not in our state!
Over several years the IDFG have turned their backs on predation. Several studies were done in northern Idaho showing that Mountain lions, and black bears were having a negative impact on the elk numbers. This was mainly due to the lions, and bears hunting on the calving grounds. Mortality of the calves was not seen as ?that much? of a problem.
For years not much was done, but after many years of hunters expressing concern changes were made to boost the harvest of lions, and bears. Still the IDFG viewed it as a, guess the answer???? Habitat problem. If the habitat is good enough the elk numbers would be ok. It is all about the habitat, predation is the reason WACKOS use to explain the low numbers, and not filling their tags. Then along comes the wolf. ?We the people? (the kind words for the government) introduced the top predator to the state. We didn't just RE introduce or RE store the wolf we already had. NO, Uncle Sam gave us a non-native; alien species that soon showed us just how good NON-native alien species can exist in their new environment. All the while the IDFG had their hands tied, and the heads in the sand. In my opinion they felt that the HUGE numbers of elk we had would easily sustain the hunters both four legged and two. They were wrong. As anyone knows we are in a crisis in Idaho with our elk populations. Our elk hunting is becoming something that the majority of NON-residents no longer want to participate in. Hunting related income for the state of Idaho is shrinking. It is not just the IDFG that gets that income. It is also the City?s, the stores, restaurants, hotels, all the way down to the maid that cleans the rooms, and the young kid that is the checker at the grocery store.
Over Hunting, yes I said it again.
Many of the areas of the state were being pounded by unregulated archery hunting, and open hunts. When we were the top predator the elk were doing fine, and elk number seem to expand every year. When MAN was no longer the top predator, and predation (four legged) was starting to reduce the number of game animals, no action was made to improve game numbers by reducing hunter (two legged) harvest. Hunters provide the income, that provides the money, to study the habitat, and habitat as we all know is reducing, and THAT is the main problem, RIGHT!
The Fed?s tied our hands with the wolves. The wolves were forced on us much like a rapist forces him self on his victim. We have all been quick to point out that it is not the IDFG fault that the wolves are now in Idaho, don't blame them. That is true, but to maintain our elk numbers, the IDFG need to say to the hunters, city?s, the stores, restaurants, hotels, all the way down to the maid that cleans the rooms, and the young kid that is the checker at the grocery store, we need to reduce tag numbers to help maintain our healthy elk populations. Limited hunting must replace the unlimited hunting we all knew in the past.
So what is the fix? It looks like no matter what the IDFG does it will loose money. If they stand on the side of the animals as they were entrusted to do when they were first formed they will need to cut tags. If they continue to sell unlimited tags and be the #1 state to offer ?opportunity? with little chance for ?success? well that will drive off the NON-residents. If they increase the tag fees with NO foreseeable increase in quality of the hunting of ANY kind, this will reduce income. When looking for the answer of all answers I don't have one.
I made the decision as an upland game hunter to sit out this year. I could see no reason to exterminate the last Chukar, forest grouse, or sage hen in Idaho.
I made the decision as a deer hunter to NOT put my wants for a big buck in front of my families needs for financial security in tough times. I went hunting close to home and I intended on shooting anything legal to reduce the number of days in the field. For the first time in MANY years I was a meat hunter.
I made the decision as a Elk hunter to focus what money I saved for hunting on my bull tag. I was like most hunters who have seen their honey hole raided by wolves. In seasons past I passed up bulls that were under 350BC. In years past I tagged a bull every year I wanted one, and in the years I didn't have bull tags I had cow tags, and I always filled them. In those years the populations seem to grow leaps and bounds. It was the good old days for Idaho elk hunters. Last year 2008 the big bulls were missing from the migration route. The cows that always seemed to be everywhere were few and far between. In a migration route the cows, and small bulls are the first to leave. The older BIG bulls stay away from the large numbers of cows and small bulls and seek the solitude of being with their own kind other old bulls. The wolves have clued in to that. They followed the scent trail of these HUGE herds of cows, and bulls. This led them to the bulls that followed the cows. After the bulls were picked off the cows became the target. While some may say that there are still BIG bulls to be had. Well yes a lucky hunter will find a big bull once and a while. Does that mean that hunting is good don't worry? Not hardly, elk hunting is going to be reshaped by the endangered species laws. I am truly sorry that my son will probably never get the chance to kill the number and quality of elk I have been able to over the last 25 years.
So what happens if Obama never lets the wolf be removed from the endangered species list? This is just my opinion and worth what you paid for it. Elk hunting opportunity will be reduced to the point where most hunters will no longer want to participate in the sport we love. Deer will be the next to feel the impact of the VERY low elk numbers that will come. Deer numbers will drop due to the predators switch in prey species. Deer hunting will fall to the wayside like the elk hunting, and the IDFG will have to seek financing from the general funds of the state. This will give the anti hunters the POWER to maybe eliminate hunting for good in the state of Idaho.
I wish I had a brighter outlook for hunting in the state of Idaho, but I can't find a shred of hope in the future of hunting. My children will never know the quality of hunting I enjoyed.
While the IDFG plants some pheasants on WMA?s that is not much of a hunt for guys that remember the pheasant hunting days of the 50?s 60?s, and early 70?s. Will upland game hunting end up like trout fishing. About all of it is put and take. Will the State end up planting deer and elk on refuges designed to be put and take for the hunter with the most money. Will hunting end up being a version of ?armed hiking? that requires a permit to carry the gun? I hope not, but the armed hiking is not far off now.
So now we get back to the beginning. Why don't I go to F&G commission meetings. What's the point, nothing I say will matter and things will go on getting worse. Sorry for the rant. Ron
We NEED birds and small animals for the upland game hunter!
Over the last 5 or so years the number of small game to hunt is disappearing. I don't care whether you are talking about Pheasants, Chukar, Huns, Sage grouse, or forest grouse. All of our upland birds are in trouble.
Private land is no longer accessible for the most part, and to many others, and me it looks like new hunter recruitment is lagging because of it. Fathers that are strapped for money just don't have the extra cash to go find a bird or a rabbit for little Johnny to shoot. When that happens the kids don't get to go hunting.
We NEED Deer for the Deer hunter!
Over the last several years Mule deer hunting is getting worse not better. TONS of money has been spent to improve the mule deer numbers but what has happened. We have fewer animals, the buck to doe ratios are heading down hill and the size of the deer we are hunting are getting smaller. We are no longer in the days of work hard and you will be rewarded. Even if a guy draws a unit 45 tag that is no guarantee you will get a decent buck. If you look at the fact that between the Draw tags, LAP tags, Super tags, and the unregulated Indian hunting unit 45 is being over hunted. Gone is the mature bucks that we all have drooled over in the past. Many super tags are being filled by bucks that we would not have even looked at in the past. A guy reading this might say so what, that is only one unit. Well it is the winter range for unit 43, 44, 45, and a little bit of 39,and maybe even 48. Over the last two years units 43 and 44 have had migrations that have started as early as September. If you wait for the rut to kick in for unit 43 and 44 you are only late by about 4 to 6 weeks on your hunt. Unit 49 has one of the lowest buck to doe ratios in the state. Unit 54 is being hunted to DEATH. Between the youth hunt, the regular draw, the late draw, and the unregulated archery hunting. That unit is on a downward slide as far as mature bucks go. Yes that area does produce a lot of opportunity. If you want to shoot a doe or a two point your in luck. And last on the list unit 47. This once great unit has been removed from the big buck hall of fame by excessive hunting, poaching, and loss of habitat. The loss of habitat has been from fire and over grazing.
We need elk for the elk hunters!
The last game animal I will mention is elk. Idaho at one time could have once been the number 1 state for residents and non-residents alike. Over the counter tags, generous seasons, unregulated archery hunting, and plenty of public land to hunt were all met with the ability to kill a 300-class bull about anywhere in the state. At one time I could have made the comment that anyone with a lick of knowledge about elk could kill a 300-class animal in ANY unit in the state. Those days are gone. Like mule deer, elk have been studied, and money has been thrown at them, for what? What is the reason for the elk populations to tank over the entire state? Well a lot of things come to my mind. Habitat loss, predation, and yes over hunting are the big three.
Habitat loss, this is the phrase that biologists like to use. Mainly, because it kind of takes some of the responsibility of low big game numbers off of their backs to some degree. While I agree that habitat improvement is important it is a VERY SLOW solution. The 14 year old boy that wants an elk does not care about the elk hunting in 10 or 20 years. He wants to get one now. If the need is not met the 14 year old will turn to something else. It is a simple fact that will happen.
Predation, not in our state!
Over several years the IDFG have turned their backs on predation. Several studies were done in northern Idaho showing that Mountain lions, and black bears were having a negative impact on the elk numbers. This was mainly due to the lions, and bears hunting on the calving grounds. Mortality of the calves was not seen as ?that much? of a problem.
For years not much was done, but after many years of hunters expressing concern changes were made to boost the harvest of lions, and bears. Still the IDFG viewed it as a, guess the answer???? Habitat problem. If the habitat is good enough the elk numbers would be ok. It is all about the habitat, predation is the reason WACKOS use to explain the low numbers, and not filling their tags. Then along comes the wolf. ?We the people? (the kind words for the government) introduced the top predator to the state. We didn't just RE introduce or RE store the wolf we already had. NO, Uncle Sam gave us a non-native; alien species that soon showed us just how good NON-native alien species can exist in their new environment. All the while the IDFG had their hands tied, and the heads in the sand. In my opinion they felt that the HUGE numbers of elk we had would easily sustain the hunters both four legged and two. They were wrong. As anyone knows we are in a crisis in Idaho with our elk populations. Our elk hunting is becoming something that the majority of NON-residents no longer want to participate in. Hunting related income for the state of Idaho is shrinking. It is not just the IDFG that gets that income. It is also the City?s, the stores, restaurants, hotels, all the way down to the maid that cleans the rooms, and the young kid that is the checker at the grocery store.
Over Hunting, yes I said it again.
Many of the areas of the state were being pounded by unregulated archery hunting, and open hunts. When we were the top predator the elk were doing fine, and elk number seem to expand every year. When MAN was no longer the top predator, and predation (four legged) was starting to reduce the number of game animals, no action was made to improve game numbers by reducing hunter (two legged) harvest. Hunters provide the income, that provides the money, to study the habitat, and habitat as we all know is reducing, and THAT is the main problem, RIGHT!
The Fed?s tied our hands with the wolves. The wolves were forced on us much like a rapist forces him self on his victim. We have all been quick to point out that it is not the IDFG fault that the wolves are now in Idaho, don't blame them. That is true, but to maintain our elk numbers, the IDFG need to say to the hunters, city?s, the stores, restaurants, hotels, all the way down to the maid that cleans the rooms, and the young kid that is the checker at the grocery store, we need to reduce tag numbers to help maintain our healthy elk populations. Limited hunting must replace the unlimited hunting we all knew in the past.
So what is the fix? It looks like no matter what the IDFG does it will loose money. If they stand on the side of the animals as they were entrusted to do when they were first formed they will need to cut tags. If they continue to sell unlimited tags and be the #1 state to offer ?opportunity? with little chance for ?success? well that will drive off the NON-residents. If they increase the tag fees with NO foreseeable increase in quality of the hunting of ANY kind, this will reduce income. When looking for the answer of all answers I don't have one.
I made the decision as an upland game hunter to sit out this year. I could see no reason to exterminate the last Chukar, forest grouse, or sage hen in Idaho.
I made the decision as a deer hunter to NOT put my wants for a big buck in front of my families needs for financial security in tough times. I went hunting close to home and I intended on shooting anything legal to reduce the number of days in the field. For the first time in MANY years I was a meat hunter.
I made the decision as a Elk hunter to focus what money I saved for hunting on my bull tag. I was like most hunters who have seen their honey hole raided by wolves. In seasons past I passed up bulls that were under 350BC. In years past I tagged a bull every year I wanted one, and in the years I didn't have bull tags I had cow tags, and I always filled them. In those years the populations seem to grow leaps and bounds. It was the good old days for Idaho elk hunters. Last year 2008 the big bulls were missing from the migration route. The cows that always seemed to be everywhere were few and far between. In a migration route the cows, and small bulls are the first to leave. The older BIG bulls stay away from the large numbers of cows and small bulls and seek the solitude of being with their own kind other old bulls. The wolves have clued in to that. They followed the scent trail of these HUGE herds of cows, and bulls. This led them to the bulls that followed the cows. After the bulls were picked off the cows became the target. While some may say that there are still BIG bulls to be had. Well yes a lucky hunter will find a big bull once and a while. Does that mean that hunting is good don't worry? Not hardly, elk hunting is going to be reshaped by the endangered species laws. I am truly sorry that my son will probably never get the chance to kill the number and quality of elk I have been able to over the last 25 years.
So what happens if Obama never lets the wolf be removed from the endangered species list? This is just my opinion and worth what you paid for it. Elk hunting opportunity will be reduced to the point where most hunters will no longer want to participate in the sport we love. Deer will be the next to feel the impact of the VERY low elk numbers that will come. Deer numbers will drop due to the predators switch in prey species. Deer hunting will fall to the wayside like the elk hunting, and the IDFG will have to seek financing from the general funds of the state. This will give the anti hunters the POWER to maybe eliminate hunting for good in the state of Idaho.
I wish I had a brighter outlook for hunting in the state of Idaho, but I can't find a shred of hope in the future of hunting. My children will never know the quality of hunting I enjoyed.
While the IDFG plants some pheasants on WMA?s that is not much of a hunt for guys that remember the pheasant hunting days of the 50?s 60?s, and early 70?s. Will upland game hunting end up like trout fishing. About all of it is put and take. Will the State end up planting deer and elk on refuges designed to be put and take for the hunter with the most money. Will hunting end up being a version of ?armed hiking? that requires a permit to carry the gun? I hope not, but the armed hiking is not far off now.
So now we get back to the beginning. Why don't I go to F&G commission meetings. What's the point, nothing I say will matter and things will go on getting worse. Sorry for the rant. Ron
