When Should a "Sportsmen" punch their tag?

cannonball

cannonball

Very Active Member
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1,284
When you wound an un-retrieved game animal, should you quit hunting that species, if you are fairly certain it was a fatal shot? Bearing in mind, in areas where there is one tag per species.
 
Should you or would you. That is a question only you can answer for yourself. If it were a fatal shot, then more than likely, it would be found. As far as I know, it is not illegal to keep hunting as long as you have put forth some serious effort to retrieve your animal. And since it wouldn't be illegal, then it comes down to a moral and ethical question that would have to be answered by that hunter put in that situation. I would respect and understand someone for hanging it up for the season after not finding a wounded animal. But, also, I would not hold it against someone who would keep hunting after putting forth serious effort and not finding an animal. I am not the morality police. I, personally, think I would keep hunting. I know if I had wounded an animal, I would do all I could do to try and find it. If I didn't, I would feel bad, but I think I could continue hunting with a semi clear conscience. S#*t happens.
 
Here we go again....

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>When you wound an un-retrieved game
>animal, should you quit hunting
>that species, if you are
>fairly certain it was a
>fatal shot? Bearing in
>mind, in areas where there
>is one tag per species.
>


Explain that first sentence please!
 
A... "SportsmAn"

[Font][Font color = "green"]Here's my signature. It's green so no one will think I am actually saying something related to this post.
[font/]
 
I'll punch my tag just before I pack the animal out. If I wound one I'll give it my best effort to find the animal first. If unsuccessful I'll keep on hunting. Last time I checked the proclamation doesn't say to use your tag if you wound and can't find. I'll save the ethics police some time by saying... I know, I'm unethical. And theirs no room in the hunting world for a$$ holes like me. And I'm going to be the downfall to hunting, and this is just fuel for the Anti's. Well, they can suck a fart out my a$$! Good night! :)
 
>I'll punch my tag just before
>I pack the animal out.
> If I wound
>one I'll give it my
>best effort to find the
>animal first. If unsuccessful
>I'll keep on hunting.
> Last time I checked
>the proclamation doesn't say to
>use your tag if you
>wound and can't find.
> I'll save
>the ethics police some time
>by saying... I know,
>I'm unethical.
> And theirs no room
>in the hunting world for
>a$$ holes like me.
>And I'm going to be
>the downfall to hunting, and
>this is just fuel for
>the Anti's.


+7



great post/pic, thanks for sharing

JB
497fc2397b939f19.jpg
 
The reason I ask what a sportsmAn really is was due to the archery hunt this year. A couple of NV hunters were in a area frequented by myself over the years and they have hunted there for several years. This year each wounded a small buck and were continuing to hunt. Then I went on the Pahvant Mt. range and a couple of different in-state hunters were there who each had wounded one deer and one who had wounded two deers.

I don't think I have ever come across this situation before.

Years ago I was lucky enough to draw archery Elk Ridge deer. I wounded two nice buck which I couldn't find and was so upset I hung it up - should have quit at one.

My grip is this - There are so many archers out there that can't hit the broad side of a barn and wounding a whole slew of deer. Archery hunting should be a way of life with a lot of practice. These dumb spikes and two points are going down like flies. They are being shot with mis-placed shots and fair weather archers who couldn't find a blood trail if the area was painted white. I am one who is happy that the state-wide archery is gone.
 
Cannonball I agree we should all practice and be proficent with each weapon of choice. The truth is there will always be people who aren't as good of a shot as others no matter what weapon they use. I would bet there are still alot more deer killed by cars on the road, than wounded and not found by hunters.
 
LAST EDITED ON Sep-30-11 AT 07:09AM (MST)[p]Its not a question you can ask anybody else. Thats a question only you can ask yourself. If I were you, do what I did and read every book and artical you can find on tracking. Practice your tracking skills until we can give you an indian name. If you get very good at tracking, then when you do wound an animal, you'll have the skills to put eyes on him once he's wounded. Besides, tracking is a blast!

***Edit***

When I say tracking, i'm not talking about follwing a blood trail. I'm talking about tracking prints. EVERY wounded deer is going to walk different than he did before. If you learn some solid tracking skills and get good at it, you won't run into an "ethics" question like this. You'll know if that deer is mortally wounded or he's gonna live. Here's a link to a tracking artical that will get you started.

http://www.ussartf.org/animal_tracking.htm



"The deadliest weapon in the world is a Marine and his rifle." General John J. "Black Jack" Pershing, US Army
"Most men go through life wondering if they made a difference, Marines don't have that problem." President Ronald Regan
 
yes, it should be punched. with the increase of wounding going on the " sportsmen" are doing more harm to the herds than the coyotes and wolves. as well gut shooting all the mature animals before they even have a chance to breed the does/cows does nothing to help the herds. if i had my way the stickflippers could only hunt AFTER the rut. that way at least we could have some mature animals genes passed on.

i am not a young buck. the wounding is getting much worse ! in the seventies it happened yes. but now it is at least 100 % more at least. with new tech. people are trying to stretch the distance of shots to the max. as well hunting ethics have gotten far, far, worse. you would have never been told by another hunter 20-30 years ago. " oh i wounded a big six point . oh well, i will just keep shooting till i kill one "

and the poster talking about tracking wounded game was spot on. and as i have stated before if you and your buds are losing game every year. it isn't because it happens to everyone. you have no darned clue how to hunt OR are a pompous azz and don't care if you wound , and shoot until something convieniently falls at your feet.

and i am a proud member of the ethics police. i just wish i could write citations.
 
>I'll punch my tag just before
>I pack the animal out.
> If I wound
>one I'll give it my
>best effort to find the
>animal first. If unsuccessful
>I'll keep on hunting.
> Last time I checked
>the proclamation doesn't say to
>use your tag if you
>wound and can't find.
> I'll save
>the ethics police some time
>by saying... I know,
>I'm unethical.
> And theirs no room
>in the hunting world for
>a$$ holes like me.
>And I'm going to be
>the downfall to hunting, and
>this is just fuel for
>the Anti's.
>
>Well, they can suck a
>fart out my a$$!
> Good night!
> :)


I love it! Nothing more to add, end of discussion.
 
Is this a trick question???......when you run out of bullets...or arrows or steel ball-bearings....my ph# is BR-549...if I win...
 
I'm so sure I'll wound 2 or 3 animals, and go on to eventually killing one, that I punch my tag BEFORE I go hunting. This saves time.

Ok, back to reality;
I would do every thing possible to recover the animal which would probably leave no time to hunt a different animal! I would NOT punch my tag right after wounding an animal because of legalities. Think about it.

Zeke
 
Now let me get this straight the "gut shooter" dedicated "SPORTSMAN" can gut shoot at least two archery deer and two muzzleloader deer and finish one off on the rifle hunt. When filling out the questionnaire from the DWR. Zero deer on both the archery hunt and ML hunt and one deer shot on the rifle hunt.

definition of "gut shooter": A meat hog is one who gets the bow and MLoader out a week before the season starts and sets the target at 20 yards for the bow and sand bags the MLoader in at the target range. Now he spends all summer shooting the 7MM this being the justification for a good shot. A few controlled shots with the primitive devices and we're off and weee areee todays SPORTSMEN!!! Thus the demise of the mule deer.
 
Ethics is about how you act, not about what happens. There are too many people who react to every situation and jump to the conclusion that a particular situation was unethical to begin with or ended up being unethical just because there was not a perfect outcome. Every situation is different and there are very few perfectly efficient hunters. Yes it is harsh to say it, but good hunters sometimes lose animals - it happens, it is terribly unfortunate, but it happens.

If I wound an animal and I give it my best effort to find it within a reasonable time period - and my best effort is pretty good, and the time period is extensive - then I will conclude that I did not mortally wound the animal and will continue my hunt. I WILL NOT "punch my tag" until I can physically attach it to the carcass of a harvested animal, AFTER I HAVE DONE ALL I CAN DO to retrieve it.

Now that doesn't mean that I will walk up on a downed deer or elk that is smaller than I first thought it would be and leave it lay there, that is the real problem here. There are too many idiots who do just that and I have seen it with my own eyes. This is exactly how and why the Bookcliffs was destroyed in the early 90's. In one season, (RIFLE) I personally witnessed over 23 dead two point bucks (the area was then a 3 pt. or better area) in about a 10 square mile radius. I have also personally witnessed many slob archery hunters fling arrows, pursue for 100 or so yards, not find the deer, get back in the truck and continue hunting. In 5 of these situations I have found their arrows and in 2 I found the wounded deer, (the other 3 had no blood on the arrows) one of which I was able to track down and make them claim their "trophy" (nice big Nomad buck with milk still dripping off his lip - Daddy showing off for the kids was none too happy he had to end his hunt at 8AM on opening morning!)Those are the individuals on whom our outrage should be focused - those that are either not skilled enough to finish what they started or who don't care enough to even try. That is what threads like these are really all about.

To me, there are no absolutes in this question. There is no cut and dried black and white - but the gray area is very thin. Hell even the very best predators don't have a perfect kill ratio. I consider myself a predator and part of the food chain. Yes I possess the abilities to reason and quantify that some of those predators do not and as such I have an obligation to hunt harder, but I don't feel I have an obligation to quit hunting if the situation is no longer within my control.

I have never lost any animal I have wounded, nor have I even ever failed to kill any animal that I have fired upon with a gun that I am familiar with. (I have missed one or two altogether, but that was with a borrowed rifle that wasn't sighted in as I was told it would be - an ethical and practical error I will never make again).


HOOK 'EM!
 
>I'll punch my tag just before
>I pack the animal out.
> If I wound
>one I'll give it my
>best effort to find the
>animal first. If unsuccessful
>I'll keep on hunting.
> Last time I checked
>the proclamation doesn't say to
>use your tag if you
>wound and can't find.
> I'll save
>the ethics police some time
>by saying... I know,
>I'm unethical.
> And theirs no room
>in the hunting world for
>a$$ holes like me.
>And I'm going to be
>the downfall to hunting, and
>this is just fuel for
>the Anti's.
>
>Well, they can suck a
>fart out my a$$!
> Good night!
>

I agree!!! :)
 
>I'll punch my tag just before
>I pack the animal out.
> If I wound
>one I'll give it my
>best effort to find the
>animal first. If unsuccessful
>I'll keep on hunting.
> Last time I checked
>the proclamation doesn't say to
>use your tag if you
>wound and can't find.
> I'll save
>the ethics police some time
>by saying... I know,
>I'm unethical.
> And theirs no room
>in the hunting world for
>a$$ holes like me.
>And I'm going to be
>the downfall to hunting, and
>this is just fuel for
>the Anti's.
>
>Well, they can suck a
>fart out my a$$!
> Good night!
>

+100!!!!
 
LAST EDITED ON Sep-30-11 AT 06:55PM (MST)[p]Seems To Me Real Sportsmen Would Spend More Time At the Range and There Would not Be as many wounded animals. i know things can happen but i would say most of the problem is people taking shot beyond there range and not practicing enough.
 
I think the point here is to make every effort possible to find a wounded animal. We can all sit back and say prctice more but bad shots happen and they always will. I don't think anyone can say that animal wounding happens more now, we just hear about it more now because of our increased ability to tell other people about it ie... the WWW.

The reality of the situation is animals get wounded, plain and simple. What is important is what you do after the fact. Instead of making this a big ethical issue, we should educate others in the importance of making every effort known to man to recover that animal.

If you wound an animal, suck it up, and spend as much time as possible to recover that animal. EDUCATE yourself in the art of tracking so that if you do blow a shot, you have a better chance of recovering the animal and doing it quickly.

I think the biggest problem is hunters have lost the art of tracking. They lose blood, get discouraged and give up. I know I keep repeating myself but to me its the big issue here. I can tell you from expirience that doing a solid tracking job when you KNOW what you're doing is like going on a whole knew hunt! It is actually alot of fun. Is it tough? Hell yes its tough but when you find that animal (dead or alive) its more rewarding than than the first part of the hunt. When I'm trcking, I feel like more of a hunter than I do before the shot.

Its easy to sit back and make all these ethical judgements on someone else, whats hard is taking the time to educate people and if you're not doing that... you're the one lacking ethics!


"The deadliest weapon in the world is a Marine and his rifle." General John J. "Black Jack" Pershing, US Army
"Most men go through life wondering if they made a difference, Marines don't have that problem." President Ronald Regan
 
If you shoot any big game and do not find it you should call it and go back to shooting a target. And wait until next year
 
LAST EDITED ON Oct-02-11 AT 06:02PM (MST)[p]Some think there is nothing ethical about hunting in general,you "ethics police" better concern yourselves with them and forget about nitpicking your fellow sportsmen,concern yourselves with what you do,what I do is none of your business.
 
They are rare to actually have one in your possession to actually "punch" it.

Reality: The "tag" portion of a "permit" usually acompanied by a "license".

Zeke
 
That's funny.

"The deadliest weapon in the world is a Marine and his rifle." General John J. "Black Jack" Pershing, US Army
"Most men go through life wondering if they made a difference, Marines don't have that problem." President Ronald Regan
 
If I wound an animal I will end my hunt. That is my take.

Now, a serious question for you guys. Why is it that any and all outfitters that I am aware of go by the same rule (draw blood and hunt is over)? I know it's not a leagl issue, so why do they go by the same "rule"?

I am genuinely interested to know your take on this. The only thing I can think of is that they are managing the herd in the areas they are hunting in and they know that if they didn't live by this then eventually their tag opportunities and clientel may dry up.

Your thoughts? What am I missing?


"The problem with quotes on Internet Forums is that it is often difficult to verify their authenticity." - Abraham Lincoln
 
MTSHEDHEDZ WROTE:
Oct-02-11, 06:02 PM (MST)
"Some think there is nothing ethical about hunting in general,you "ethics police" better concern yourselves with them and forget about nitpicking your fellow sportsmen,concern yourselves with what you do,what I do is none of your business."

WOW!! Sad to say there are a lot of hunters that think like Mr. MTSHED. and that, my friends,is why the anti's get a foothold. True - to be a hunter follow the law, but to be a sportsmen takes more.
 
Instead of jamming ethics down peoples throats why don't we try as I did to educate other hunters. Offer an alternative. We are grown men here, we don't need others telling us we're wrong without offering to educate and provide an alternative. If someone calls me unethical I'm gonna tell him to pound sand but if someone says "hey bud, I understand your what you're thinking here but why don't you try this?" Like, instead of creatiing a big dumb argument about when to punch a tag, offer some info on how to give yourself a better chance of recovering a wounded buck. If you chastise someone for something without out offer an alternative, you accomplish nothing... And you're a blowhard!

"The deadliest weapon in the world is a Marine and his rifle." General John J. "Black Jack" Pershing, US Army
"Most men go through life wondering if they made a difference, Marines don't have that problem." President Ronald Regan
 
If we had more "sportsman" that thought we should follow the written law and not worry about what other hunters are doing beyond that it would be a better world.The antis are fighting a loosing battle,get over yourselves and go hunting.
 
I get what you're saying M but there are vast gaps between law and ethics. Example, there are no laws that say you can't take a 150 yd shot with your bow but reasonable hunters know that it is unethical. That being said, the approach some here take is unproductive. Slamming a guy creates offense and you accomplish nothing. There is middle ground on how to deal with ethics and educate.

"The deadliest weapon in the world is a Marine and his rifle." General John J. "Black Jack" Pershing, US Army
"Most men go through life wondering if they made a difference, Marines don't have that problem." President Ronald Regan
 
I knew I would hit a nerve and I normally would not be going down this road, but with the lack of deer something needs to energize some brain cells of hunters. Going out this year and hearing all of the deer that were wounded by archers really irritated me. It is obvious to me that we certainly do not have the same type of hunters out there as in the past. Maybe it just the lack of deer coupled with these new nimrods that don't even know what they are doing, that is so frustrating.

The option is to quit hunting if you wound a deer. That certainly may not be your take, but it is mine. My attitude, what ever the reason, would have been different years ago. Good or Bad attitudes are catching and can change groups of people - That I know.
 
Deer going unrecovered should irritate you. Wounding is going to happen. The problem is either not knowing or not caring enough to learn how to recover a wouded animal. I know when I would punch my tag but that doesn't matter near as much as me learning how to recover that animal so I can put a tag on it. Every hunter should have the knowledge on how to put their eyes on that animal that is wounded. No matter how it happens, it NEEDS to happen. If I wound a deer and I find that deer after the shot and its obvious he's gonna live, I'm not punching my tag. That being said, I'm going to continue my pursuit of that deer, if I can't make it happen, I'll move on. If I find that deer and he's gonna die
, I'm camping on that buck till he does die, however long that takes! But notice the common denominator is finding that wounded buck. If you can't do that, the arguement is pointless.


"The deadliest weapon in the world is a Marine and his rifle." General John J. "Black Jack" Pershing, US Army
"Most men go through life wondering if they made a difference, Marines don't have that problem." President Ronald Regan
 
>If I wound an animal I
>will end my hunt.
>That is my take.
>
>Now, a serious question for you
>guys. Why is it
>that any and all outfitters
>that I am aware of
>go by the same rule
>(draw blood and hunt is
>over)? I know it's
>not a leagl issue, so
>why do they go by
>the same "rule"?
>
>I am genuinely interested to know
>your take on this.
>The only thing I can
>think of is that they
>are managing the herd in
>the areas they are hunting
>in and they know that
>if they didn't live by
>this then eventually their tag
>opportunities and clientel may dry
>up.
>
>Your thoughts? What am I
>missing?
>

Well, for starters, not all guides follow this rule, and second, those that do are looking out for their own interests, which is the right thing for them to do. They are going to walk an extra fine line so the consequences of bad actions don't fall in their laps. That is just good business. They may have distinctly different personal ethics than they do business ethics.

HOOK 'EM!
 
The argument is not pointless! Maybe it is to you because you go the extra mile to find a wounded deer. I'm here to tell you that there are more slob hunters out there than ever before, whether they get their feelings hurt or not, and I'm sure they don't view them selves as such, they are still SLOB HUNTERS. I want to make clear that I am not saying that if you continue to hunt after wounding a deer you are a slob hunter. That could be a different subject, "WHAT IS A SLOB HUNTER" and the list could be long, but hopefully they are reading and thinking.

I would even go as far as to say that the Dedicated Sportsmen program in Utah should have an "Agreement of Understanding" where as hunters agree to "punch their tag" upon WOUNDING or killing a deer.
 
Over the years I've lost a few. It's the main reason I don't hunt with a bow much anymore. I know it can and does happen with all weapons.

When I was younger it didn't bother me as much to move on. The older I get the more it bothers me and if I believe I've fatally hit an animal I'm done. I'll continue to hunt for that animal and that animal only. Dead or alive.

Some wounded animals beat the odds and live through it, but most don't.

"Dear MacGuyver, Enclosed is a rubber band, a paper clip, and a drinking straw. Please save my dog." Peter Griffin aka The Family Guy
 
More rules and more laws won't do a darn thing because they can't enforce the ones they have now. EDUCATION is the key! The only rule I would support in a situation like this is those having to do with better education. There are always going to be slobs, there's not a rule or law that can change that. Yes it is frustrating to see idiots do what idiots do but what are YOU doing about it? You can sit here and preach your ethics all day long but unless you are willing to educate others your words are wasted. I don't mean to sound harsh but its frustrating to listen to people talk about ethics but offer no solution other than more rules. Discussions about ethics here always turn into guys talking about absolutes and eventually more rules. More rules evetually leads to the government invading peoles lives and I will never support that. You want to change things? Go teach a hunters ed course, until you do that you don't get to tell other guys how to hunt.

"The deadliest weapon in the world is a Marine and his rifle." General John J. "Black Jack" Pershing, US Army
"Most men go through life wondering if they made a difference, Marines don't have that problem." President Ronald Regan
 
Roy, Thanks for taking the time to respond.

You said: "They are going to walk an extra fine line so the consequences of bad actions don't fall in their laps. That is just good business."

I agree and that is my point. They are doing this because they realize the general perception is not good and they don't want to gain a bad reputation. Not only is it good business for them from a management stanpoint but it's good business for them from a perception standpoint. They are worried about the ethics of the decision, no?

So, if we as hunters are truly conservationists and we are truly concerned about the health of the heard and how we are perceived by the general public (which we should be) then why would we not be concerned about the same things? Why would we not exhibit the same level of standards and self control?

Not trying to argue, just trying to understand the other side of this issue.

Thanks!


"The problem with quotes on Internet Forums is that it is often difficult to verify their authenticity." - Abraham Lincoln
 
I taught hunters education for several years. The curriculum of ethical hunting was sparse at best. Was involved in trying to save our deer herd twenty years ago, but it went on deaf ears by those in power of those of us who cared.

The best way I can sum this up for "Rules of Conduct" which may not be enforceable by law, but would be good in the Dedicated Sportmen program is this: Many years a go I was pulled over by a Highway Patrol Officer for cutting a Y in the road short. I asked how many people went on the wrong side of the road and he told me about 30 to 40 percent. He told me that if I promise to never do it again he would not give me a ticket. I made the promise and to this day have never broken that promise.

If the dedicated sportmen made the promise not to hunt that year if they had wounded a deer, I think most would keep it even without a law to be enforced.
 
First off thank you for the time you dedicated to hunters ed, I have a lot of respect for guys like you that dedicate their time to the sport they love. Honestly, I'm not familiar with that program, so I cannot comment either way. Trust me I am very concerned with what has been going on out there. I have participated in many discussion about this very subject and I've just come to the realization that the slobs that are out there are a product of our society in general. Lines have been blurred in every section of society and its not getting any better. Unfortunately unless hunters ed is revamped with great emphasis on ethics, nothing will ever change.

"The deadliest weapon in the world is a Marine and his rifle." General John J. "Black Jack" Pershing, US Army
"Most men go through life wondering if they made a difference, Marines don't have that problem." President Ronald Regan
 
Here's the problem, as I see it, with the Dedicated Sportsmen program in Utah. A hunter can get two deer in three years, and they can hunt all three season (archery, MLoader, and rifle). The problem lies with not being adequately proficient in all three modes of weaponry and in a lot of cases wounding many animals. Most do not understand hydro-static shock that comes with a high power rifle vs the bow or ML which require tracking an animal more often.

That is one reason I really think a "Code of Ethics" should be implemented in that program to include wounding of an animal.
 
I don't know, seems to me that the kind of guy that would leave a deer to rot would have no problem signing a code of ethics and not abiding to it in the field. But who knows maybe it will work. Maybe requiring a a test with each weapon would be a better idea. If a guy expects to be a part of a special program, he might need to expect to abide by special rules.

"The deadliest weapon in the world is a Marine and his rifle." General John J. "Black Jack" Pershing, US Army
"Most men go through life wondering if they made a difference, Marines don't have that problem." President Ronald Regan
 

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