WHDF , Support Them

4

440sixpack

Guest
I'm kind of behind the curve I guess I should have looked into this more before I got caught up in the pizzin matches.

Everything the NR hunter needs to have a voice in WY is right here. don't worry about who's doing what or why this is all there is at the moment so go with it.

I'm sure some will argue with their numbers, what else would you expect they're trying to ruin the fun.

Anyway I'm going to contact them and see if we can get more involved, maybe be exaples of people who are going to stop spending as much in WY. any ideas?

http://www.wyominghunterdefensefund.com/









Stay thirsty my friends
 
This post is actually ironic. Donating money to the group that got you into this fix.

I think the outfitters might just be smarter than us all...
 
How do you figure the outfitters got us into this? because they got us a better than average quota in the first place? well shame on them.

I suppose we'd be better off to let your organization speak on our behalf? trust us we're here to help right.


It's WHDF or nobody and I don't see that changing.








Stay thirsty my friends
 
>How do you figure the outfitters
>got us into this?

The price you pay for preference points was brought to you by your friendly neighborhood outfitter.

You see 440, WYOGA knows that the more a NR pays to hunt Wyo, the higher percent of them are hiring an outfitter. Sucks you guys are caught in the middle.

And I really mean that...
 
As I've said I don't have a problem with the money, just don't move the goal line.

It isn't logical that the outfitters would like to see tag prices high for their clients. that leaves less money in the hunters pocket to pay an outfitter. but, their client needs that tag or they're not a client.

Wouldn't it be more likely the outfitters supported putting more of the burden on the NR for a poltical advantage to support the higher NR tag quotas as they are?


So really what's happened is we're paying to far more than residents for the right to hunt more often than we would otherwise. we can live with that, but it doesn't seem you can.

If you didn't do us any favors I'd thank you in advance.












Stay thirsty my friends
 
>It isn't logical that the outfitters
>would like to see tag
>prices high for their clients.

Really 440?

Then why did WYOGA push a bill last session to only raise NR license fees?

Two reasons: They know their clients WILL pay more and they don't mind making G&F more dependent on NR.
 
Thank you, that's what I am trying to say.

If that's what it takes I'm fine with it. I guess we're still not paying enough to make you go for it, but my hopes are we're paying enough to make us matter to the majority.







Stay thirsty my friends
 
>guess we're still not paying
>enough to make you go
>for it, but my hopes
>are we're paying enough to
>make us matter to the
>majority.


Sorry 440, but you're not.
 
Did any of you donors do any research on this group before you threw your money at them? Just curious. Nothing on that site explains who they are or where they originated. WYO-SFW tactics??

Just sayin'...

Sounds kinda familiar...
 
Doubtful it was researched at all.

Next time I hear a NR whine about the Wilderness guide law, expensive preference points, Special VS. Regular tag fees, bills that raise NR fees only, having no place to hunt because of leasing, being run off public by outfitters, etc. etc. etc. they're going to get an earful.

Keep sending those donations.
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-26-14 AT 06:52PM (MST)[p]This from the facebook page.

?WHDF is an organization started by WYOGA to fund these efforts
 
>Did any of you donors do
>any research on this group
>before you threw your money
>at them? Just curious. Nothing
>on that site explains who
>they are or where they
>originated. WYO-SFW tactics??
>
>Just sayin'...
>
>Sounds kinda familiar...


That's funny because that's the first thing I thought of when I read the article in the WYOGA magazine and then went to their website. I actually mentioned to jm77 in a PM that there was no way to know who was even running it if you go through their site. I even jokingly mentioned that maybe even Smokestick was the organizer and looking to make some quick cash in case SFW went down the tubes and he lost his job with them, LOL!
 
>Did any of you donors do
>any research on this group
>before you threw your money
>at them? Just curious. Nothing
>on that site explains who
>they are or where they
>originated.

That was my question as well. I did find that they supposedly are a division of the WYOGA but there is not much information as to what the donations are used for, what percentage of donations are put towards legislative issues, who is the organizer, spokesperson, etc. I found this information searching the internetmon Wyoming Hunters Defense Fund;

"Wyoming Hunter Defense Fund is a Wyoming Domestic Non-Profit Corporation filed on July 8, 2014. The company's filing status is listed as Active and its File Number is 2014-000668048.

The Registered Agent on file for this company is Sy Gilliland and is located at 4704 W Yellowstone Hwy Po Box 2987 Casper, WY 82604. The company's principal address is 4704 W Yellowstone Hwy Casper, WY 82604 and its mailing address is Po Box 2987 Casper, WY 82602."

And then this info on Sy Gilliland;

"MEET SY GILLILAND

Sy Gilliland is an owner and full-time outfitter for SNS Outfitters & Guides. Sy Gilliland received his first Outfitters license in 1977 at the age of 21 and was issued Wyoming Outfitters license #001. Since then, SNS Outfitters & Guides, under Sy?s leadership has become the largest hunting operation in Wyoming. Sy is also licensed to outfit in Montana.

SNS operates on large private ranches located in prime game country. We currently lease in excess of 700,000 acres between Wyoming and Montana. Properties used by SNS include several private ranches, Bureau of Land Management, State of Wyoming land, Thunder Basin National Grasslands, and the Bridger Teton National Forest.

Wyoming Licensed Professional Outfitter since 1977
Montana Licensed Professional Outfitter since 1998
Current secretary/treasurer of the Wyoming Outfitters and Guides Association
Past board member of the Wyoming Outfitters and Guides Association
Member of the Montana Outfitters and Guides Association
1993 Bureau of Land Management Outfitter of the Year
Past chairman and 3 term/7 year member of the Wyoming State Board of Outfitters and Professional Guides, appointment made by the governor
Certified in First Aid, CPR and Instructional Methodology"

I would like to know a little more about the organization before I donate. Maybe someone associated with them can pipe in...

Horniac
 
As a non-resident, i support WYOGA. They are the only group that speaks for me when it comes to tags in WY.
 
I knew it's tied to the WYGOA and at this point who else do you have that has power that will lead a legislative fight for the NR?

"The enemy of my enemy is my friend."
 
I am non-resi here too.

Topgun & 440, you do not speak for me. I reside in a state that "allows" up to 10% for non resident hunters. Get used to it, should have expected it too. (nice line about the "Parrot", you kno who).

Having said that.....most non resi hunt DIY in WY....why ask us to support WYGOA when they were the largest reason to cut our access to PUBLIC LANDS??? And, 440....I see 99% of your posts on all boards....you just came across as one of the largest hypocrites with how you have played this conversation out here the last week or so. You became "selfish" along the way.....wanting that handout, unfortunately Obama isn't in WY to grant you that. Every state changes......was it Zim on another board applauding AZ...guess what he missed something, 2016 will kick non-resi in the nuts there too......it is gonna happen with regard to dropping the 20% pass. It's everywhere....sorry you have the 17 points. If I had the 17, I would keep after it.......as HF says "someone" has to draw. At the end of the day, I am grateful I have options in a lot of states.....all of you have a great New Years, I am out!!
 
Lastly, Sierra & Cornhusker.....unless you are going to be "guided" hunters every year you can draw a tag....

And to be transparent, (love that word)I will back your position up if that is how you approach WY tags, so you know.....

Then, WYGOA is not your friend or voice in whatever WY decides. Neither is that piece of $hit that runs WYSFW. I have friends that are members of WYGOA who I have utmost respect for.....it's a business & they are in it for the cash. It's not even that complicated. They will fight for the largest percentage of any legislation that they think brings more clients into the fray, being non resident hunters or resident hunters. It's a business!!! Above all boys, don't think they haven't (smart ones have) figured a back up plan to the changes that could happen. Meaning, they are already reaching out to resident hunters to be guided. Non resi really have no voice at the end of the day. And, I agree.....kinda sux.

Imagine that???
 
Yes there's always the jealous ones. jealous of the outfitters and their clients. don't let that petty thinking stand in the way of what's best for you and every other NR.


Jim77 you might be right, or you might be claiming " mission accomplished " a little premature. I have no doubt the residents like what you're preaching I would too, but you have a lot of money questions to answer between now and a vote on your bill. I'm hearing you're going to need lots of duct tape to cover the holes in your funding sales pitch. good luck with that.




I'm throwing cash and support behind WHDF because they're the only voice I can possibly have in your state. you might pour the pork to me but I'm not going to take it without a fight like ABS.





Stay thirsty my friends
 
440 said:
Jim77 you might be right, or you might be claiming " mission accomplished " a little premature.

<Credibility goes down the tube when you put words in people's mouths.>

440 said:
I have no doubt the residents like what you're preaching I would too, but you have a lot of money questions to answer between now and a vote on your bill.

<I preach to no one, I join in conversation with many, you have no idea I'm afraid.>

440 again:
I'm hearing you're going to need lots of duct tape to cover the holes in your funding sales pitch. good luck with that."

<If you think $200 or even $400k out of $46 million in licenses and point fees is going to kill this, then the outfitters will need a lot more forked tongue than they have already.>
 
The outfitters have forked tongues? credibility goes down the tubes with unfounded insults.

You talk to lots of people? no doubt. must be hard to sell the idea of taking tags from NR hunters . but how honest are you about the loss of revenue ?


This will be the biggest gamble Wy has taken to date with the NR revenue flow. who can be sure your numbers are the right guess or that everyone will accept them. as a NR I think my guess is better than yours , and I think you're going to be shocked at the moose and sheep drop out rates. we're all just guessing.


This isn't personal, you're looking out for #1 and so am I. so you smooze your WY legistators to give you 60% of the NR quota and I'll put pressure on mine to leave it the way it's been since you started taking our point fees two decades ago.

Wait a second ! I don't have a WY legislator. well there you go. I don't have many girls to chose from at this dance do I ? so hello WHDF you're look'in pretty shiny .










Stay thirsty my friends
 
I applaud your fight, as you gotta do what you gotta do......in no way am I sitting around either, but please do not speak on my behalf. I just will not support a group that fights to keep me boxed up in a corner. When WYGOA takes a concession on the wilderness law and gets that dropped, I will be in their corner all in. Until then they're kind of like a TV minister.........

What's the line?? God bless you all, but most of all, send your money!


Save that money to buy raffle tickets....you would get better results more than likely.
 
I'd rather have a tag and avoid the wilderness areas than have no tag at all. I don't think you understand what at stake here.

Just out of curiosity, how do you plan to be effective on your own as a non resident?












Stay thirsty my friends
 
I understand crystal clear. You are basing your premise on the fact you can draw a tag in the next couple years. Is that actually a guarantee? My cousin that used to outfit in the Greys River (his kid runs it now) had to wait until his 32nd try to draw a sheep tag.....as a resident!!

Having said that, you have made it clear you are "all in" on this particular tag due to your points. I get it, I would be pissed off too. But, unless you are a non resident hunter that wants to be guided on every hunt, WYGOA does not represent you. Do you understand that......they are in business as a "corporation" for lack of a better word. The wilderness law, special tags, etc......they lobby for the client that most would use their services. By pinning the NR DIY guy down thru laws & regulations like that, it tenfold creates a client that is more likely to hire one of them. Putting $$$ to an outfit (Muley Fanatic comes to mind)that actually tries to help a NR indirectly is better money spent. At least they are attempting to get predators down & habitat up so that we may see increased tag numbers down the road, which is more opportunity. We can agree to disagree & I have zero problem with that. I can assure you though, the outfitters I keep in contact with are laffin over this particular cut on the OIL tags. You won't have to fund them on the deer/ant......they are already primed to contest that if it ever comes to a bill. Best of luck on your application in the coming month, hopefully you draw & this is moot.
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-27-14 AT 07:51PM (MST)[p]ASB: "But, unless you are a non resident hunter that wants to be guided on every hunt, WYGOA does not represent you."

I can't go along with that statement in this particular situation because the tag allocation process in Wyoming does not differentiate between the DIY hunter from the guy that goes guided like it does in NM. If it did, then I can see where you are making some sense. However, in this case whatever the WYOGA can do to squash this 50% NR tag cut will have just as much effect on the DIY guy as those who would go with an outfitter. 440sixpack and others like him are between a rock and a hard place on this one and whether they dislike the wilderness law or not that WYOGA was instrumental in passing he pretty well needs support from them to have any chance of defeating the Bill that will be introduced.
 
I understand the outfitters have their motives , but I don't understand why anyone would have so much disdain for them they'd rather get whipped than work together . If WHDF fails, the wilderness law won't change and you have 60% less tags to draw.

I'd still like to know how you plan to be effective without a resident stepping up on your behalf. and other than the outfitters I have nobody to do that, do you? I don't have tunnel vision let's do this.

I will draw my tag if not next year the year after, and probably within this decade even if this passes . I'll quit moose and my wife will quit sheep and moose if this passes we probably should anyway. but I sent a donation and letter of supportto WHDF as much for the guys a point or two behind me as myself. I'm not happy about it but I will get my tag, most of them are screwed and it's unfair. I don't know if we can beat this, but I know we can't by just whining about it so get in the game. I only see one team formed, it's really that simple.












Stay thirsty my friends
 
Wow Topgun, that's quite the stretch.

The reason for the BS special vs. regular priced draw was a direct result of WYOGA. As per usual, its look out for my paying clients from WYOGA, don't consider the DIY guys at all.

While there isn't specific outfitter sponsored tags, the special priced tags were as close as WYOGA dared go. Sure, there are some DIY guys that take advantage of the "better" draw odds with the special fee. It would be interesting to see the breakdown on how many of the special priced tags go to NR's hiring an outfitter. I bet its quite high, in particular when things like pronghorn are not doing so well.

I understand why 440 is taking this route, but there are times when a person really is cutting their nose off to spite their face. This being one of them.

WYOGA has not been friendly to NR hunters:

-Wilderness guide law (thanks to Residents there is a way around it for NR's).

-Special VS Regular tag fees.

-Lobbying for increases in NR point fees

-Introducing legislation to increase the percentages on special fees from 40% of available tags to 60%.

-Lobbying for increasing NR fees only

-Leasing private lands and controlling access to public

-Contributing absolutely NOTHING financially to the Wyoming and game and fish. Find this quite funny, they expect to have the loudest voice, yet contribute not a single red cent personally to funding the GF (unless they personally buy a hunting or fishing license).

-Many are now using aircraft for scouting and reducing the opportunities for DIY resident and non-resident hunters alike.

-Harrassing DIY hunters who use OUR PUBLIC lands.

Again, while I understand why 440 is choosing to throw in with WYOGA on this issue, the potential harm to all NR's outweighs any "good" that he is trying to portray.

If you're really looking out for the average DIY NR hunter (most of which don't even apply for moose, sheep, goat, and bison tags), you would realize that your support of WYOGA is doing wayyy more harm to them than any perceived "good".

WYOGA is not the friend of any hunters, other than those that book hunts, which is a very small minority of hunters nationwide.
 
Not really a stretch at all in this particular case. As you well know, I've never had anything good to say about outfitters and it's exactly for all of the reasons you stated! However, when NRs don't have any say on what affects them, just as it is in this case, the only way for 440sixpack and others that have PPs for the affected species to have any kind of a chance to keep the 80/20 split is to hope that the WHDF/WYOGA succeeds in their attempt to stop it from going through. This is a case of NRs having to go with the cards they were dealt and it's too bad, but that's the way it is when there is absolutely no other way to tackle this tag cut attempt by the residents.
 
Top, to add to what was said in the previous post.....as we all know, WYGOA is a group of individuals that are in business to guide hunts, offer summer pack trips, or in some cases guide fishing trips. It's very simple. Anything they have pushed into law (regulation, whatever) is strictly to enhance the chance they will see more paying clients, period. Anything that happens from their lobbying that ends up even helping a DIY hunter is a gift. Call it collateral damage that happened (intentional or not) to get their way. That is the only way a DIY hunter see's any kind of help from WYGOA.

Very few outfitters even offer guided moose hunts, even fewer do sheep out of the overall WYGOA membership. From what I understand, the reduction in NR tags in each species will really not affect their overall number of clients because most residents go guided on those hunts anyway. So, you can choose to help them if you want, they will privately thank you for your donation on this issue, but you may not see much action. When it comes to cutting deer quotas (their bread & butter), you won't have to send them anything, as they will fight that one tooth & nail.

No disdain at all, as I have friends & relatives that are under the WYGOA hat....it's just business is all. Gentlemen, have a great new years, I'm going archery hunting.
 
ASB gets it. Any good that has come from anything WYOGA pushes for DIY hunters is really IN SPITE of the WYOGA agenda.

Topgun, like I already said, its fine that 440 is looking out for himself first. Just the same way WYOGA has looked out for itself first since they formed.

Funny thing though, when Residents start doing the same thing, you and 440 quickly throw your support to a group that fund the GF with ZERO money. They have offered up ZERO ideas/suggestions for helping to fund the GF.

Whats really ridiculous is when you both claim to be supporting this for the "good" of "average" DIY hunter. That's just flat not true. Its a selfish request on behalf of a very small segment of the NR hunters in Wyoming that apply for a very limited number of moose, sheep, goat, and bison tags.


If 440 and guys like him REALLY cared about the GF budget, the states Wildlife resources, and DIY hunters, they'd start asking WYOGA why they contribute nothing to funding same.

Trouble is, nobody likes to ask the tough questions, let alone answer them.
 
ASB: "Call it collateral damage that happened (intentional or not) to get their way. That is the only way a DIY hunter see's any kind of help from WYGOA."

That, Sir, is exactly what 440sixpack and I are saying! Also, there are plenty of them that are offering guided moose hunts if they work an area where there are open moose units. Obviously it isn't a huge percentage of the overall number of outfitters though. Yu have a great New years too and I hope you have success on your archery hunt.
 
Buzz you're off base. the only friend the NR has is the outfitter and you know that. if I'm wrong please direct me to my other options.


How can you say the outfitters have cost the NR hunter an oh my god amount of money and then say they've done nothing to help fund the game dept. ? hello? you're not cashing our checks? what do you want them to do have a bake sale?


What part of a 60% tag cut will not harm me more than anything the outfitters have done to date? we both know the reason I had and still have that allotment is due to the outfitters. thank you outfitters.

It's become pretty obvious for whatever reason there are many people involved here who hate outfitters.for some getting a bigger share of the NR quota may be just a side benefit. no good comes from jealousy or this sort of agenda .


If any NR can't read between the lines and see who your only ally is I feel sorry for you. if you think anyone without a vested interest in your behalf is going to ride over the hill and save you we're all better off if you don't get a tag and handle weapons. consider WHDF your lobbist, and lobbist get paid that's how it works.

Support the WHDF and get a tag, there is no species in WY you can't hunt without an outfitter if you draw the right tag. don't buy this crap trying to make outfitters the root of all evil it's horsechit. and even if you don't care about moose or sheep understand that deer ,elk and antelope will be the next target. believe me now or believe me later.














Stay thirsty my friends
 
440,

Absolutely, the WYOGA is great at spending other peoples money...trouble is they don't have any flesh in that game.

How much money does an OUTFITTER, THE OUTFITTER, not his clients, contribute to the GF? How much do they put into habitat enhancement on public lands? How much money do they raise to fund studies, etc.?

You shouldn't have to think long...

What I've grown tired of, is those profiting from MY PUBLIC WILDIFE, contributing nothing to enhance same. Then turn around and kick the DIY NR and R hunters in the sack.

If you and WYOGA really care as much about wildife as you claim, try to raise some money for wildlife related projects. Instead of passing the buck (pun there) to the numerous Wildlife organizations and DIY R and NR hunters to fund Wildlife, try opening the wallet and do something productive for wildlife instead of yourself.

Like I've already stated several times, if not for the heavy lifting of the R's and DIY NR's, and associated State Wildlife orgs funded by the same group of hunters, you wouldn't have sheep or moose on the hill to apply for.

Keep trying to "figure" up all that money outfitters personally contribute to enhancing wildlife and habitat.

Don't let that complicated math trip you up.

Oh, and I'm hearing good things about the bill...getting legs already, and rightfully so.
 
Buzz said:

"Keep trying to "figure" up all that money outfitters personally contribute to enhancing wildlife and habitat."

Let me help you out there 440, it's ZERO!
 
I see, so since the outfitters don't donate all their earnings back to wildlife programs we need to eliminate outfitters and cut the NR tag quota by 60%. that makes sense if you don't think about it.

I think this pizzing match is about much more than how the outfitter spends his money. he's competition you don't like that's what this is about. just like the NR is competition for the tags you want. let's just be honest.

None of this changes the fact WHDF is the only show in town for the NR .

Buzz I have no doubt the idea of taking tags from the NR and giving them to residents is going over well. I would think hunters in WY eat too many paint chips if it didn't. it's all about money, it's always about money. this lives or dies on who makes the best case for lost revenue you or WHDF.

If WHDF loses I lose, all NR hunters lose even the ones too dumb to know it . no amount of outfitter hate propaganda or false sympathy can change that. end of story.












Stay thirsty my friends
 
440,

Where did I say an outfitter had to donate all their earnings to wildlife?

I sure don't, and I bet you don't either. But I do at least buy hunting and fishing licenses in 8-10 states a year, donate a nice sum to our AccessYes program here, and I don't make a profit from any of that.

I also donate a significant amount of time and resources volunteering for various projects, fund raising, etc. for the benefit of wildlife.

I don't even expect a tag in return for those efforts, surely nothing in the form of monitary compensation or a livelihood. I do it because I care about wildlife, habitat, and the future of hunting. I'm not alone, there are lots of Wyoming Residents that do that, and more. Some right on this board.

But it seems a touch out-of-balance when a particular group of individuals directly benefit financially from a public resource (wildlife), and contribute nothing.

I don't give a chit what you want to drum up for reasons for my stance on this and other issues...jealousy, greed, competition, etc. Its baseless.

It has everything to do with rewarding those doing the heavy lifting and paying the freight for wildlife and hunting.

Please explain how constantly taking from a resource and giving NOTHING back is anything associated with being fair, just, or right.

When the fertilizer hit the ventilator with regard to the budget, the last to volunteer or seek a solution was WYOGA...unless it had to do with passing the "buck" (pun there) to their clients.

Call me old fashioned, but I don't believe in giving away Wyoming's wildlife to a bunch of free-loaders.
 
Wildlife managment should not be dependent on donations and volunteers. that is mismanagment.

I know a court ruling made the game in each state by law managed by the state. not by you, so it's not YOUR wildlife as you claim it's the states, even those residents who don't hunt or plant trees. as such all hunters should demand he state take care of that managment and not rely on volunteers or donations. they can and they should.

You should also do a little research before you trash people. in just seconds I found this on one of the degenerates you're talking about. nevermind all the other good things he did in his life just look at the RMEF, aren't they in some way giving to WY wildlife? I bet in a few more seconds I could find hunt donations and all sorts of things outfitters do for the wildlife and people of WY. jealousy messes with peoples good sense sometimes .

http://www.wyomingwildlifefoundation.org/HOF/inductee_jakeclark.aspx



Stay thirsty my friends
 
440,

If, as you claim, the state should flip the entire wildlife bill, then you prove my point further.

Outfitters provide ZERO dollars to the GF. You know the State Agency mandated by law to manage OUR PUBLIC WILDLIFE.

Shouldn't outfitters be responsible for a portion of funding the GF, since they are profiting from it?

I would argue if you make your living from a public resource you should pay more than those who don't.

Jealousy has nothing to do with the fact outfitters provide nothing to the GF.
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-28-14 AT 07:41PM (MST)[p]Give me a break, you said outfitters contribute nothing so I showed you an example of how they do , now they need to do more. how much more? half be enough? who are you to decide how much anyone should donate . and we've already established they do give.


Why shouldn't G&F charge enough to fund game managment? let the wolf freaks and bumble bee geeks do their own projects don't put that turd in the outfitters pocket. make big game pay it's way and if you want to do a flower garden that's on you.

I spent another 45 seconds and found a donated elk hunt with ALL proceeds going to put " sheep on the mountian " . that's giving back nothing? no credit at all?

http://www.trailswestoutfitters.com/news.html




You want me to spend another 30 seconds and find something else? or does anyone even care what the truth is?








Stay thirsty my friends
 
440

How about the outfitters just pay their fair share to the Wy G&F for wildlife management? Because currently they pay nothing, not even their license fees.
 
If that's your problem why don't you take it up with them and leave the NR allotment alone? how much do you think they should pay? most outfitters are not Warren Buffett, and there aren't thousands of them. is charging them fees that break them part of the master plan?

Let me run this by you. my wife and I paid WY $680 to apply in your state this year and the only thing I'll hunt there is snow when I go to Kelly snowmobiling. if the outfitters are responsible for my high quota and the high prices I pay isn't that adding to the G&F budget in a large way? if you defeat them and my allotment drops you're going to take money away from G&F. what's your spin on that?

I found Buzz another degenerate outfitter giving a hunt to RMEF. ever hear of them or FNAWS ? they do good things . it's really easy to find something positive about WY outfitters you just need the desire to see it. either of you donate 6k this year?

http://www.onlinehuntingauctions.co...EER-HUNT-By-Hidden-Creek-Outfitters_i21015839











Stay thirsty my friends
 
440

You brought up the allotment, so here goes:

I live here in Wyoming, 52yrs, raised my kids here, work and pay taxes here, spend most all my money here and will be here to watch my grandchildren grow. I'm invested in Wyoming, NOT YOU. All you want is to come here and hunt Wyoming's wildlife, a privilege afforded many non-residents.

I am all for NR hunters enjoying and sharing Wyo's wealth of wildlife. When it comes to elk, deer and antelope we offer a fair amount of tags to the NR and don't see that changing one bit. But MSMG&B are a far different story. Wyo allots those tags to the NR at a much higher percent than any other state. Fair is fair. That needs to change.

This isn't an outfitter thing or a NR thing, it's the number of tags, plain & simple.
 
Holy Crap....this went nuclear. 440, your passion is awesome. How bout you put that effort to Oregon so I can hunt the Steens before I die. Could care less about the deer.....awesome country to try to chase them though.

And, stop being like a child in the corner keeping his "toys" from the rest of us that also want to play.....OK, I am kiddin you there.

Seriously, you can call me whatever you want. My point is WYGOA will take your cash on this deal & look the other way. Meaning, they will not be the NR voice here because they are smart enough to pick their battles too & this battle means damn near zero in dollars lost to them.

Do you understand??? Do you get that??? If not, we are pissin up a rope with thinkin they are on our side with this issue, and the issue here is OIL. That's all I have been trying to say. Most, if not all, WYGOA members guide deer hunts....with or without your donation, that fight is on to stop NR cuts & they will not need your donation. Lives & businesses will then be on the line if NR deer quotas are cut. So, don't threaten & call us dumb if we politely disagree on this particular issue.....sometimes emotion & greed even make the smartest person the biggest clown in the show. Be careful what you are asking for sometimes.
 
I can respect that , you're greedy aren't we all. but I think you're downplying MY investment in WY. I said I my wife and I paid WY $680 this year and asked for nothing in return except points in a game which has been the same for 20 years. you're moving my goal line down the field 60 yards yards at the end of the 4th quarter. whats fair or is not fair depends on who's ox is being gored.


We're all americans and the game we're hunting is on land that belongs to me or a guy in NY city just as much as you. all that separates us is a court ruling that says the state gets to manage the wildlife, that was a lucky break for you for sure.


I do want to come hunt. I also bring my sleds and ride a week every year. I've come and bought horses in WY . and yes I've paid an outfitter in wy for his excellent service. I like WY very much and I try to leave it cleaner than I found it, it's special to me and when I sell out I might just move there. it kind of burns me a little when it's implied I'm just a taker wanting to do a drive by and skip out.

Maybe it's not an outfitter thing to you but I know you don't like them, or the idea of NR hunters teaming with them. another 30 seconds of searching and I found another deadbeat giving to put sheep on the mountain.


http://bid.wildsheepfoundation.org/5-DAY-MULE-DEER-HUNT-IN-WYOMING-FOR-2-HUNTERS_i21227922









Stay thirsty my friends
 
It obvious a lot of this burns you and nothing I'll say will change that for sure. This isn't an outfitter thing or a 440 thing.

Oh, and when you sell out and move here, you can look me up. You see I don't hide out on here like some.

You have the points dude, put in and get a sheep tag! I guess I'm missing something else here...
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-28-14 AT 11:04PM (MST)[p]I didn't get where I am by giving up easy. so yes I do latch onto something and stay with it. I know odds are you'll win but that doesn't change the fight one bit, can't never did anything.

Yes I will get my sheep tag I'm sure, and that might be this year. if not I have other things to do until I do get it. that makes it all okay? it's still a raw deal for those who won't. It shouldn't be an unfamiliar concept to think about someone besides yourself .



ASB I asked you who can the NR count on if not the outfitters? I'm still waiting for an answer. do you think our quota setting and the 20 years we've had it is just pure luck? outfitters are clueless about the whole thing? I think you're smarter than that. think about it.

As far as the Oregon thing goes look back at what I've said for years, it's inexcusable and I apologize to all nonresidents you're getting screwed. but jim has an easy job, more for residents a real tough sell. imagine trying to take from rsidents to give to nonresidents. good luck.

How many points do you have? I haven't hunted the Steens in years but I've been thinking about going back it's only about 150 miles SE of me. if you draw it let me know even if I'm not hunting it I could bring some stock down and ride it a few days with you if you'd like.

Remember the money outfitters are giving to RMEF? doesn't help WY huh ?

http://www.kcwy13.com/home/headlines/Wyo-Game--Fish-Receive-45k-Donation-253835671.html

















Stay thirsty my friends
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-28-14 AT 11:47PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Dec-28-14 AT 11:39?PM (MST)

440, this isn't the Obama forum, we are not all DW here. I said earlier, I applaud you.....you don't have to keep telling me how tenacious you are. Also, you are giving links of individual outfitters (who actually give a chit) donating hunts to various organizations. Kudos to them. None of that is WYGOA!!!

I answered your question earlier by saying I would support organizations like your links (muley fanatic, RMEF, etc)....you just backed up my response 20 posts above with the links provided. At least they are trying to increase animal numbers.......will it happen is to be debated on another thread. Clueless??? LOL.....You may want to rethink that somewhat. I am all for NR "rights" if that is even the correct word here. But, I also know what is real in the world of hunting & outfitting. WYGOA will not fight this to beat it. They will possibly make noise, but that's it, just shining some chrome. C'mon, it's politics like you KNOW how it goes!!! The deer tag deal is another story.......they will not lose that fight, period. Not, at least in the next 10 yrs. By the way, they won't need your donation for that.....they will spend their own if it gets that far, bet on it.

Which brings me to this....with what is proposed by the WY OIL reduction is right in line with everywhere else. That will be precedent if it even goes legal....understood?? Rules get changed, keep the chin up & figure your next best move. Do I like it, no. But, New Mexico had a court change tag allotment (residents major factor behind that). Where was outfitter support for NR there?? Same deal as what WY is headed for. Reason, same amount of actual tags, basically same amount of tag holders going outfitted. No reason for them (outfitters) to raise a stink. Now AZ is going to change the game for 2016.....if you have a lot of points, you just got handed one up the a$$, as the residents wanted the 20% pass eliminated. Guess what, guides were behind that....not enough tag turnover to get repeat clients........hmmmmm, imagine that.

At the end of the day, it's all about the money. Always will be. I see your gripe & I get it. Trumpet WYGOA all you want, in the end in this particular case it's quicksand. Remember, Stalin & Hitler aligned for a cause for a short time.....maybe the next debacle regarding tags we agree on!

Deal???

PS.....this is the most you have ever acted like a republican.....lol. You're safe, I won't let the foils on the Obama forum know. Relax, I am kidding, all in fun!!!!!
 
So you're ready to give up , just to summarize. then give up and let the rest of us do what we can it won't harm you .


Nice way to trivialize the contributions WY outfitters have made to the recources and to the state of WY. that's pretty sorry.


I think we've beat this horse to death. as simple as this is it's doesn't warrant so much debate. we have something that somebody else feels entitled to and plans to take it. we have some people offering what form of resistance they can .

Go to any ghetto and you'll find the same scenario playing out every day. nothing has changed in 20 years , but to our misfortune Jesse Jackson has come to the hood and he's telling the homies they're being screwed by the man and his gang . so here we are, trying to board up the windows .

My time is better spent elsewhere so unless someone has something new I'll leave it for Al Sharpton to wrap up.







Stay thirsty my friends
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-29-14 AT 10:32AM (MST)[p]Go back to the first paragraph in my last post. You call that trivialize & then say "I'm a sorry person". I believe I said "kudos" to the actual outfitters that actually care. I also said that is not representation of WYGOA.

Stop twisting comments here & get off your high horse. I will try to keep it friendly, but don't treat me like a piece of chit here either.

And you are right, no more to debate, show a little class & move on, horse is now dead.
 

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