What's your thoughts on this???

[Founder]

[font size=+1]Changes to Utah Big Game Hunts[/font]
Follow that link above and read the article at KSL. What's your thoughts? Rangefinders attached to bows? Magnified scopes on muzzleloaders? Multiple elk hunts?

I'm all for things that encourage people to put down the rifle and take up more primitive type of hunting to give the game a better chance of survival. However, I'm not a fan of increasing our advantage over the game. With magnified scopes sitting atop of modern muzzleloaders is almost like a high powered rifle of 15 years ago.

What's your thoughts?

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
LIKE MonsterMuleys.com on Facebook!

 

[fullthrottle]

^^^ couldn't have said it better myself ^^^. The "game" particularly muleys and even more so mature bucks have the deck stacked way against them as it is. I'm all for giving them half a chance. They are way to cool of a critter to bypass all of their defense's. If we continue the trend and allow ourselves the ability to use every advanced resource and device to increase our odds, the "sport" of hunting will be lost. Not just these issues, but optics, trail cams, drones, the list goes on. I'm all for having the latest and greatest gear, and utilizing it. But we already have seasons for that. Ain't nobody stopping you from hunting with a souped up inline on the general hunt.

 

[schoolhousegrizz]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-04-15 AT 07:34PM (MST)[p]I voted against it. 10 years ago I would have been like heck yeah now I have a better chance to shoot a deer. Now that I am able to see the big picture I think it is bad for the future of hunting. Higher success means less opportunity. Just what we don't need. My daughter will be able to hunt soon. She might have a hard time getting a tag, or it will be a piss poor tag. The only change that I am not completely disgusted with is the more LE tags. Those have become once in a lifetime if you're lucky. I don't mind if the success rate drops to 50% and the age class drops a year. At least there will be more opportunity for a somewhat decent hunt. Utah's LE hunts are some of the most successful hunts in the west. Really disappointed with ML scope change.

 

[rockymtnhunter]

My 2 cents - It's time to restore the muzzy season to "primitive weapons" only; modern inline muzzleloaders w/scopes, sabots, modern bullets, modern advanced powders, rifle primers enclosed in brass cases, effective range & velocity for 300+ yds, etc are not primitive IMO! They are equivalent to modern rifles and should only be allowed for use during the modern rifle season. I use a traditional muzzleloader for the opportunity to use a primitive weapon and challenge of getting close enough for a clean shot. So sad that we've lost that goal/vision in the name of "progress".

 

[YZF_88]

I agree and will patronize Idaho or Colorado when it comes to my upcoming muzzy hunts over the next few years. Actually selling my "modern inline".

 

[elkassassin]

My Thoughts are this:

What Good are RAC Votes?

If You're gonna let StickFlippers & Long Range Rifle Hunters do as they Please You're Gonna Give the SmokePolers some options as well!

Hell No it Ain't Primitive Hunting!

But it's More Technology that will make the Herds Suffer even more!

What they shoulda done is limited it to a 2X magnification!

But what good is my input!

But now we've got Unlimited Magnification & every TARD will have it on their Guns & with Turrets!




Go Ahead!

Make Me take it down!

 

[WapitiBob]

Looks to be a natural progression for a state that has a rifle Elk season the last cpl weeks of September.

 

[elkassassin]

Now if We can get the SmokePole LE Elk Hunts Changed to Dead Center of the RUT We'll have something!

The STICKFLIPPERS have had the Rut!

The Long Range Rifle Hunters have had the RUT!

Now it's Damn Time the Muzzleloader Hunters have it for a couple years!

Have the Muzz Hunt first dead center of the Rut!

Then let the Rifle Hunters in after that!

Move the StickFlippers to the last/late Hunt!(Do I hear a little Whine?)



Go Ahead!

Make Me take it down!

 

[treedagain]

Arizona moves them around yearly. Might be a good change.

 

[Stonefly]

I have read a lot of differing views on this topic, And i have expressed bits and pieces of my own views from time to time. I think the first question we should ask is why does a guy hunt with either archery equipment,or muzzle loader?
I started my hunting with a rifle, a Rem. 700 in 30.06. I only Hunted with the rifle for 4-5 years, or I should say I hunted only,with this rifle for 4-5 years. I started bow hunting as a way to do More hunting. We could harvest 2 buck deer a year. You could bow hunt for 1 and either rifle or muzzle load for the other ,if I remember right. anyway, My reasoning was archery for more opportunity. There were very few compound bows, no range finders i know of, and arrows were either wood or fiberglass. I used a Ben Pearson recurve, Ceder Arrow ( beautifully made,stained and crested by my Dad) and tipped with Bear Razors. The arrows would get whittled down in length, tips lost and broken. By the Hunting season i had all different length arrows, from filing and shaping i'd bet the weight of my razors were all different. And our camo was bought at the Army Navy store. We Killed Deer.
I recently posted about my beginnings into Muzzle loading, And told of my enjoyment for the sport. what I didnt tell you folks about, was why? For me it was a way to enjoy Hunting without the big crowds. There were few Black Powder hunters back in the 80's. And you were limited to very few guns to choose from, none I remember were drilled and tapped for scopes. Most guys I knew used round balls , a few used bullets. All bullets at that time had Grease rings and in .54 weighed from say,,380grns to 480 grns. This range is a guess not a fact. all i know is they dropped like a ton of bricks. we used patches, black powder, spit, wonderlube, again no range finders shotgun primers pellets of powder. we killed Deer.
Beside the "improvements" being more effective killing at longer and longer ranges, faster and faster reloads, Less time consuming, as far as caring for rifles and gear. They made the sport EASY, and people like EASY.few muzzle loaders now would work as hard cleaning,practicing ,and caring for their gear, as was required back then. And we did it knowing our guns were good to 100-120 yards.
Improvements as they are called not only change effectiveness, but make it EASY and remember folks like EASY. So when you "improve" effectiveness, harvest more and more Animals, and make it Easier. All you are doing is making it more and more appealing to people, with fewer and fewer animals to harvest
The muzzle load hunt stopped appealing to me when it got overcrowded, To me I was unable to find the reason to continue with it. For me it was NEVER about killing big Deer, It was a lot more, and it was lost. oh well. I still archery Hunt, and I admit I now use a compound Bow. I also hunt sometimes from a tree stand. I wont condemn people who use high power scopes on muzzle loaders, go for it. its just not for me.. I do want to ask Bess tho,,, would you come to my elk camp and show us "stick Flippers" where to find the Rutting Elk..I would love to finally see them. I'v been looking for around 35 years and have found VERY few.
All these improvements WILL reduce tag numbers AND ADD more Hunters to the pool just sayin..... I wonder if I would still be muzzle loading if there would have been laws to keep it primitive i'll bet I would. And if compounds were illegal, well then no I wouldnt bow hunt, my time has passed for me to draw my old recurve, I dont have the shoulders anymore

 

[elkassassin]

Well stone!

I'm Talkin LE Elk Hunts!

And Yes back Quite a Few Years ago The StickFlippers Hunt Got Perty Heated Up towards the End of their Hunts!

With not much/if any of a Break in between these two seasons the Rifle Hunters would Hit the Rut Mid way/tail end!(I'm sure you haven't forgot about the Millions of Threads & Posts about the Dreaded Rifle Hunters Hunting in the Full Rut?)

As Our Warmer Weather/Later Fall's/And More Hunting Pressure came together the StickFlippers are wearing an Attitude!

I Agree the Rut has been pushed later!

I also Think it's time the SmokPolers get a Crack at the Full RUT on the LE Elk Hunts!

Actually the LE Muzz Elk Hunters have been getting in to the Tail End of the Rut the last several years!

I've just gotta RAZZ You Guys cuzz it doesn't take much to Stirr a StickFlipper up!

Maybe that Dedicated Elk Permit will go through and when I finally Draw My LE Elk Tag I'll be able to Hunt all four Hunts:Archery.Early Rifle,Muzz/Late Rifle,I wanna make Damn Sure I'm gonna be able to Hunt during the FULL RUT!





Go Ahead!

Make Me take it down!

 

[Stonefly]

I know your razzin, and I know when the Rut starts and ends... I live in Elk country remember.. I too can razz a guy a bit.;-).im just trying to say, If changes are made to increase harvest, and make it easier for the hunter, all that will happen is harvest numbers will go up. Its a GIANT invitation for all other hunters to join the party. instead of Stick Flippers getting the beginning of the rut and rifle the end. why not give the charcoal burners the entire hunt, every 3rd year, and alternate with Rifle, archery. If a guy truly wants to hunt a specific way, take the advantage of scopes ,range finders, inline,... really if you want to move a few guys through the point scam ..try this idea.. Ignore the whiners and move the true "primitive" Hunters through.
I think You would be surprised at the number of guys dropping out and returning to the rifle (any weapon)LOL, Hunts. or make areas specific to one type of hunting and Only that type. Wasatch sub unit from heber to sheepcreek road . (muzzle loader ONLY from Sept 10 - Oct 10th
also could say NO ATV's Diesel 4X4 only... ;-)

 

[rmanwill]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-06-15 AT 12:52PM (MST)[p]I'm not opposed to magnification,but I'm selfish because I'm getting older and my eyes keep getting worse. However a easy to find 4X would have been plenty. I hunt with all three weapons depending on species and state. Here in Utah I hunt muzzleloader because it is the season that suits my schedule and other hunts best. The muzzy dates don't run the same time as most out of state hunts and the rifle hunt here in Utah is when the family and kids have always hunted, because it is easier for wife and the younger. The muzzle loader season allows me the give that hunt my all, but I know I could consistently bag bigger bucks in the rifle season if I gave it my all, but family hunts, kids and teaching them and keeping them interested in hunting would suffer, so I hunt when it is better for all and I really enjoy the muzzle loader hunt and I just enjoy being able to be out hunting as much as possible. I even hunt elk with muzzy, which is not an advantage over rifle or a better season, but it works for me. I don't know how many hunts I have been on without a tag just to be on the mountain, but that is what I enjoy, not to mention helping other be successful and teaching younger hunters. I spent the majority of the muzzy hunt on the mountain this last year and did not fill my tag and yes I could have numerous times, but one of my son's decided to try the muzzy hunt for a first time and it was about him and showing him the ropes, its not all about fIlling every tag for myself, but I'm on mountian with family and freinds. Lastly is if people will shot beyond effective ranges with a scope they are already shooting that range without the scopes. Ethics are something you either have or don't have. Sometimes we can teach or get some to understand and come closer to the right side, but most are who they are and are not going to change. Archery, muzzle loaders and rifles all have thier effective ranges and I have my own personal thoughts, but will not try to tell others what theirs should be. Hopefully everyone will know their weapons, equipment and thier abilities and make the right chooses for the game animals. 100 + yards with archary, 300+ with muzzle loader and 1000+ with rifle, not for me. To much can effect trajectory or go wrong, but that's me. Sorry for the long rant.

 

[elkassassin]

>I know your razzin, and I
>know when the Rut starts
>and ends... I live in
>Elk country remember.. I too
>can razz a guy a
>bit.;-).im just trying to say,
>If changes are made to
>increase harvest, and make it
>easier for the hunter, all
>that will happen is harvest
>numbers will go up. Its
>a GIANT invitation for all
>other hunters to join the
>party. instead of Stick Flippers
>getting the beginning of the
>rut and rifle the end.
> why not give the
>charcoal burners the entire hunt,
>every 3rd year, and alternate
>with Rifle, archery. If a
>guy truly wants to hunt
>a specific way, take the
>advantage of scopes ,range finders,
>inline,... really if you want
>to move a few guys
>through the point scam ..try
>this idea.. Ignore the whiners
>and move the true "primitive"
>Hunters through.
>I think You would be surprised
>at the number of guys
>dropping out and returning to
>the rifle (any weapon)LOL, Hunts.
>or make areas specific to
>one type of hunting and
>Only that type. Wasatch sub
>unit from
>
> heber to sheepcreek
>road . (muzzle loader ONLY
>from Sept 10 - Oct
>10th
>also could say NO ATV's Diesel
>4X4 only... ;-)

Hey stone?

Remember when we were Younger & We Finally Got Our First Good Rifles?

We were thinking we were perty Bad-Ass,packing Weapons that with Practice We might Reach out 350-400 Yards?

JUDAS!

I Think them same Rifles today are almost considered Primitive Weapons!

Where will the Technology End?






Go Ahead!

Make Me take it down!

 

[why]

more hunts its all about the money and to wipe out every last animal on the Yellowstone unit.in Utah.

 

[theox]

I'm withbu founder I'm Pissed about it. I know a guy building a custom muzz that's supposed to be accurate out to 500. It bugs me. Not right at all we don't need easier hunts.

I think it's gonna make people take riskier shots

 

[Cass]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-15-15 AT 11:19AM (MST)[p]Wow....
Bout all i can say to this. This will not be good what so ever for the animals or the hunting experience for the hunters. Utah needs to wake up and really fast because these changes are going to slaughter the animals. They need to let Nevada DWR take over they are getting seriously out of hand.


-Cass

 

[BeDawg]

Technology needs to have limits. I am in favor of more technological restrictions in hunting than additions. That way the meat hunters would still get bucks and those who want mature deer would have to use a little more effort rather than shoot accurately from 800 yards.

A coworker just showed me a U-tube of a drone with a gun mounted to it. It looked like a prototype to a new weapon we could use. I propose the DWR have an early August buck drone season. It will be a great way the hunters of our generation can be more successful. It might even attract more youth who never would think of hunting otherwise. Of course I am kidding.

IMO, it would be just fine if they eliminated the rifle season all together and made it a muzzleloader hunt with no restrictions. It will never happen but I would be all for it.

 

[elkassassin]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-20-15 AT 06:31AM (MST)[p]>Technology needs to have limits. I
>am in favor of more
>technological restrictions in hunting than
>additions. That way the meat
>hunters would still get bucks
>and those who want mature
>deer would have to use
>a little more effort rather
>than shoot accurately from 800
>yards.
>
>A coworker just showed me a
>U-tube of a drone with
>a gun mounted to it.
>It looked like a prototype
>to a new weapon we
>could use. I propose the
>DWR have an early August
>buck drone season. It will
>be a great way the
>hunters of our generation can
>be more successful. It might
>even attract more youth who
>never would think of hunting
>otherwise. Of course I am
>kidding.
>
>IMO, it would be just fine
>if they eliminated the rifle
>season all together and made
>it a muzzleloader hunt with
>no restrictions. It will never
>happen but I would be
>all for it.

Come On BeDawg!

Don't tell us you don't wanna Hunt with a Drone!

You could make it a Muzz Only Drone Type a Hunt!

The PERTY BIRDIE Ain't a Bad Tool!

I'm Living & Dieing with the Choices
I've Made!

Go Ahead!

Make Me take it down!

http://www.monstermuleys.info/photos/us
er_photos3/9001hank2.jpg

 

[azbullhunter]

In Az the muzzleloader season/equipment works well. I would guess less wounded animals. I will never apply in Utah due to hunt expo so I have no dog in fight.

 

[fullthrottle]

Yep, the muzzleloader equipment is going to work really good in Utah this year. Ecspecially on those high country muleys in September and the rutting ones in November. Awesome! What else can we do to wipe out the mature bucks? Maybe our graphs and pie charts will give us some more good ideas. Every year they come up with something that just makes you shake your head, it's a loosing battle.

 

[cannonball]

I have prided myself in staying with the real Jim Bridger Hawken and flintlock. I scoffed at those with the inline and one power scope, voted against higher magnification, and so did all of my friends. To get the vote up to 52% in favor of changing must have taken some selected voting.

Anyway even though I have had to take much abuse from my kids I now just caved. I have ordered a high fluting, modern in-line with a high tech scope. I can now hunt either season and can now brag about shooting an animal with a primitive weapon.

Irritated? You bet I am, but I'm tired of being frustrated. The best thing I've got going for me is that my grand-kids can take or leave hunting. It is the last thing on their list. They would rather ski, motorcycle, go camping, wheeling and fishing. Only problem is that I don't know who to whom I am going to give my guns.

The one thing that I don't think Utah's game people understand is that these kids have to have a quality experience. There are a few hunters who find bull elk and a lot don't. Deer were the salvation for the big game hunters because they weren't lumped in big herds and more hunters had a chance to connect. Those deer herds are chased, either directly or indirectly from the middle of August to the end of the year. You can find them in the fields and valley - - WONDER WHY?

I think we are a greedy bunch of hunter, including me. The more power you have the more greedy you get and it is starting to show in Utah.