what is your opinion

[sniper14]

Do you think the hunt draws are fair, and you draw merely by chance. Or do you think drawing odds increase depending on who you are and money you may contribute to ?the cause?

It seems like some people draw year after year, while others never draw.

I may be bitter because I never draw. There could be 10 tags and if 11 people put in I will not draw. Go figure

 

[dillon]

I think that the only happy area on the scale is max points. You can be one point behind the crowd and not draw for five or so years until they are all gone. I know 1/2 the tags go everyone else without max points, but I have never seen much evidence that having more points even helps you there.

 

[muledeernuts]

I have been a lucky one over the years and completely agree to the bonus point system. look at it this way, i have somewhere around 8 bonus points for moose where as a first year hunter or someone who refuses to buy them only has 1 chance. my name is put into the hat 8 times. if the F&G was to produce numbers of people with a certain amount of bonus points you would realize that in the long run it is better to buy the bonus point. and hey sniper14 if you disagree with me them don't buy them that way i will have 9 this spring to your 1. Find the horn Goose!

 

[Zeke]

sniper14,
Your luck is just not that good......YET.
Unless you're in the max pool you have slim to no chance of drawing most tags.

Hang in there man!

Zeke

PS: the only preferential treatment is for bonus pt holders and NOT for contributors and buddies.

 

[alp75]

It sounds to me like he is referring to expo tags not normal draw tags. Can you clarify?

 

[Outdoors]

High-demand tags will always have many, many more folks wanted a tag than there are tags to go around.

Do you want to draw a tag to hunt for elk in Arizona once every 25 years or once every 5 years? For pronghorn in Wyoming once every 5 years or every year?

I draw 2 - 3 tags a year around the West and most are hunts where I can expect to see a few representative animals with a high harvest rate on a DIY hunt. With my choices as I fill out 70 or so hunt applications in the West...I hunt for pronghorn more often than deer and deer more often that elk. I could hold out for the one unit that has a 400 elk or 36" wide mulie or 90" pronghorn but I would draw 0 tags most years. I am a hunter. I like to hunt.

My strategy works for me. There are lots of other strategies.

For all of us, though, the writing is on the wall for non-residents and will be increasingly difficult to hunt the West like I have the last 20 years.

 

[theox]

i have nothing bad to say about the draws i like them. i can understand why some people dont, simply because they are not lucky but everybody has a chance to draw whether you have 0 points or 17. its all luck and thats what makes it fun to apply every year. someone always wins the lottery and pulls off a tag with minimal points. it makes it fun and gives you hope to kepp applying. i

i have been one of the lucky ones a couple times. i am just an average guy i dont know anyone inside the dwr. i do not donate. im just an average joe.

in 2008 i pulled a wasatch moose tag with 1pt. it was my second time putting in.

in 2009 i draw a le elk archery tag with 4 pts. it wasnt a long shot but i still had fairly low odds of drawing.

hopefully someday ill win the lottery again and draw early again. if not i guess i got lucky at least once.

 

[2lumpy]

I've always figured the risks of "rigging" the draw would not be worth the small reward. In large organizations eventually someone gets disgruntled and starts keeping notes with, dates, names and occurrences. Once they have collected adequate evidence, the whistle blows, the light shines and hell breaks loose.

So far as I know, no one that has ever worked for the DWR has ever come forward with any reasons to believe there has been inappropriate behavior during the draw process, and there have been plenty of folks leave the DWR without a lot of love for the agency.

Secondly, who at the DWR would up their career and their reputation at risk so someone else could get a permit. Just can't see anyone there wanting to help anyone else that bad.

I suppose it could have happened in the past but if it has i would believe it has not been done on as a "regular or common practice".

I'm not one to hold back criticizing the DWR when I believe they are in error, I think they are pretty darn clean on this draw business.

Just my opinion, nothing more.

DC

 

[hornkiller]

If you are talking expo just change you last name to bear!
You will get a star by your name then just pick what you want to hunt next.

**** S.F.W.

 

[AWHOLELOTTABULL]

I could have swore they were rigged years ago. I knew a family that drew elk, deer and antelope year after year after year. This was before the point system was set. Since then, that same famly has drawn 1 elk tag and 1 deer tag in 18 years. Kinda blew that theory away.

I'm with 2lumpy on this one. I think the risk would be too great for someone to gamble their job on. Besides, that is the very reason they are done by an independant company in Reno, Nevada.


It's always an adventure!!!

 

[littlebighorn]

+1 AWLAB
This question comes up every year, especially when a familiar name gets lucky!
An independent company is hired to handle the draws and computers are used to handle the thousands of applications and hundreds of draws. Random numbers are assigned, not names, to the applications so no one gets any special treatment.
You have the same odds as anyone else. The problem "Lady Luck is a fickle hussy", and you never know when she is going to choose you!

 

[fc0mdl]

I am from Utah, not Utard. I guess I am out in left field or out of the ball park. For the most part I like the bonus point system. However, I would like to see it tweeked(sp?) a little. I would like to see minimum points for a species before a hunter is actually allowed in the draw for a permit. For example:
3 points for deer & antelope before in the draw
6 points for elk before in the draw
9 points for OIL before in the draw.

This would see more applicants with higher points draw and leave the system. New hunters coming in would have to pay their dues. Yes, I am an old fart who has had to bit the bullet when my neighbor with 14 points doesn't draw and another neighbor who is 16 year old, with no points, draws a LE elk permit.

My two cents.

Mark

 

[muledeernuts]

fcomdl i don't know how many people would agree with you on that one but it would give better odds to people who religiously apply, it may be slightly in their favor but it would help. I would say the only issue there would be the young generation of hunters getting discouraged. however i am 24 now and the extra days and cow/doe hunts that they offer in my area to younger hunters usually from 12-14 or so is great. They have alot of great opportunities now that was not available ten years ago. Maybe you should propose that idea to someone of importance. Find the horn Goose!

 

[BGHmatt]

Hey sniper, I have found most of those guy who tell u they are lucky and draw every year are really spending thousands on landowner tags and just lying to people to make themselves sound good

 

[llamapacker]

I apply for some 45-50 tags each year. I usually end up drawing 1-2, and on a good year maybe even 3-4. Each year some yahoo drones on about how I am "soooo lucky", yet they apply for just 1 tag a year. Looking at the odds for all the tags I apply for, my luck is way below average. I do, however, put in for enough hunts that even I "get lucky" once in a while. Go figure...

Bill

 

[fc0mdl]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-09-11 AT 09:42PM (MST)[p]muledeernuts thanks for you imput. Appreciate your thoughts. I did try to talk with a couple of people about this but kind of got the cold shoulder. One person is a current member of the wildlife board the other person is a member of SFW. I am one person expressing my viewpoint with not a lot of people to back it up, so for all I know I could be loner. I have hunted in Utah for 27 years and this is the first year I am seriously considering not applying for a general deer permit. I may change my mind, still have a couple of weeks to apply. Good luck in your quest to draw tags in the future,

Mark

 

[prn]

I in no way think that the draws are rigged. However, I also don't believe in the draw being completely random. I think if you could see a breakdown of the "random" assigned numbers you would see trends at certain points. My theory is this is why you see the same people drawing over and over (or people with names that fall very close in the alphabet). I realize that a computer is used to assign the numbers but can you truly guarantee that the computer is acting in a random manner?

 

[muledeernuts]

prn i would have to say that their computers are as random as your going to get. its the same as staring at the stock price for a company over the last 20 years, there will always be some patterns evolving if thats what you want to find. Same as slot machines they are technically as random as they come but why is it that some of our friends win more than we do. All i know is if i draw that Moose permit this year i'll be a smiling fool. Find the horn Goose!

 

[2lumpy]

Smarter folks than me claim that nothing in the universe is random, that ie: all math, all nature, all everything has patterns if you push the matrix out far enough, the pattern will show, including these software randomized drawing systems.

Stinkystomper could explain that a lot better than I could, if it's even true.

There is a difference between a perfect randomized draw with a computer and a dishonest or a intentional rigged system. While the draw system in all these States and the Expo may have some inherit randomization flaws is does not necessarily mean they are causing intentional unfairness in the process. Could it, I guess it could, if you are smart enough to but I've never met anyone that smart that's involved in the process. Okay, I'm just joking, we're all brilliant. ;-)

DC

 

[pookiebar]

Is there a minimum age to put a kid in for a hunt? As I understand it now, as long as they have passed hunters safety a kid can put in at any age.

Am I wrong?

If this is true, then I think they should make the minimum age 14 for the draw. But you can start buying them points at say age 8-10 so long as they have passed hunters safety and purchase a hunting license.

 

[treedagain]

when your not drawing tags it does seem like it is fixed when the same guys draw every year

 

[2lumpy]

It also seems that luck runs in streaks, hence the term, "lucky streak". People's lucky streak are move noticeable then their loosing streaks, yes?

DC