What hunts did you put in for? pc

I hope you pull them. I believ you stand a very good chance of getting the G37. Saw a picture of a monster taken from there this past season. I do wonder what the winter did to some of the large migrating herds. I know it had to affect them some how. A lot of deer wont get back to their normal summer ranges for a long time plus it's going to take longer for food to grow. What made you go G37 vs some of the other premium zones? Wish nothing but the best for you on the draws.

Regards

Built Muscle
 
Took a swipe at my favorite, low point x-zone w/0-hoping for a random.

Put it for Tule and sheep with max points and just swinging for the fences for speedgoats since I drew in 2018.
 
I hope all you get something. Since I'm out of points for deer I'll collect one this year and put in for my standard D7. I do have max antelope and elk but will have to wait to put them to work. My G3 hunt cost me a small fortune and my daughter ( princess ) is going into her senior year. That's where my money is going
 
Just the usual. G6 and D8. I know with 6 points I won't draw unless I'm one of the lucky 5 randoms....I'm more concerned about road washouts. There's quite a few in D8 and some won't be fixed by deer season.
 
Max points for sheep, elk, and deer. Odds still terrible for top hunts, but someone has to get that sheep tag. So it might as well be me. ?
Trying for G3 to hopefully draw and quit accumulating deer points and hunt somewhere other than A & B Zones. Top elk unit makes a Hail Mary look good.
 
LIK2HNT said:
Max points for sheep, elk, and deer. Odds still terrible for top hunts, but someone has to get that sheep tag. So it might as well be me. ?
Trying for G3 to hopefully draw and quit accumulating deer points and hunt somewhere other than A & B Zones. Top elk unit makes a Hail Mary look good.
Click to expand...
What sheep unit did you decide on? With max points and especially since they dropped the marble/clippers to one permit.
 
Think you and I had the conversation last year about who was getting the tag. In the long run neither of us were successful. Any ways going for Newberry. Me and 80 others will try for 1 of the 5 tags. ?????
 
LIK2HNT said:
Think you and I had the conversation last year about who was getting the tag. In the long run neither of us were successful. Any ways going for Newberry. Me and 80 others will try for 1 of the 5 tags. ?????
Click to expand...
Oh wasn’t me, I don’t have max points so I don’t apply for the newberry’s but it’s a great hunt and a ton of fun !
 
If you have max deer there is a place to go where you will draw for sure and you won't have to hope for weather and stand a damn good chance for a dandy Buck, I think there are more than a few guys on here that know where I'm talking about!!!!!! If you want to get off your points and have a chance at a mature book I would look into it.
 
oljc said:
If you have max deer there is a place to go where you will draw for sure and you won't have to hope for weather and stand a damn good chance for a dandy Buck, I think there are more than a few guys on here that know where I'm talking about!!!!!! If you want to get off your points and have a chance at a mature book I would look into it.
Click to expand...
D5?
 
Still haven't put in till nv. Results. Max sheep, 100 max guys/year have assumed room temp. The last 3 years. Will draw any of the 3 top bowhunts for mulie. Lope bow, tule bull with the best odds.
 
Put in for Goodale with max points again. 2 short of max on elk and antelope so it's a long shot. I flubbed it 2 years somewhere back when.
 
Opps .. my bad.
X1. Marbles bull, likely table goat..
Already hit a Marbles Mtn bull(2000) and a few way to fast whiteys.
Jester
 
jester said:
Opps .. my bad.
X1. Marbles bull, likely table goat..
Already hit a Marbles Mtn bull(2000) and a few way to fast whiteys.
Jester
Click to expand...
x1 point creep is going to be going up big time. There are alot of people really starting to apply for that unit. The state gives out way to many tags for that unit for rifle and the herd is really starting to show it. Not to mention the CA Predator; lions, wolves, bears, coyotes; support system they have going in that unit is not good.
 
NE-ELKHTR said:
x1 point creep is going to be going up big time. There are alot of people really starting to apply for that unit. The state gives out way too many tags for that unit for rifle and the herd is really starting to show it. Not to mention the CA Predator; lions, wolves, bears, coyotes; support system they have going in that unit is not good.
Click to expand...
Every herd state wide is starting to show it. I love the option of two deer tags a year but I really think it should go to one/individual.
 
pacer1975 said:
Still haven't put in till nv. Results. Max sheep, 100 max guys/year have assumed room temp. The last 3 years. Will draw any of the 3 top bowhunts for mulie. Lope bow, tule bull with the best odds.
Click to expand...

I have a spreadsheet that I update every year on the number of max pt applicants, the annual decrease in max pt applicants, and the porportion of max pt applicants that apply for only points.

For the three application years from 2020 to 2022 we only lost 184 max pts applicants (~61/year). On average from 2010 to 2022 we lose approx. 5.3% of max point applicants per year. The more interesting number is the % of max point applicants that apply for only points. From 2010 to 2022 it's remained pretty stable at 14.6%.

Here's a chart on the decrease of max point applicants from 2005 to 2022.

1683830618600.png
 
Bwht4x4 said:
I have a spreadsheet that I update every year on the number of max pt applicants, the annual decrease in max pt applicants, and the porportion of max pt applicants that apply for only points.

For the three application years from 2020 to 2022 we only lost 184 max pts applicants (~61/year). On average from 2010 to 2022 we lose approx. 5.3% of max point applicants per year. The more interesting number is the % of max point applicants that apply for only points. From 2010 to 2022 it's remained pretty stable at 14.6%.

Here's a chart on the decrease of max point applicants from 2005 to 2022.

View attachment 110018
Click to expand...
 
Bwht4x4 said:
I have a spreadsheet that I update every year on the number of max pt applicants, the annual decrease in max pt applicants, and the porportion of max pt applicants that apply for only points.

For the three application years from 2020 to 2022 we only lost 184 max pts applicants (~61/year). On average from 2010 to 2022 we lose approx. 5.3% of max point applicants per year. The more interesting number is the % of max point applicants that apply for only points. From 2010 to 2022 it's remained pretty stable at 14.6%.

Here's a chart on the decrease of max point applicants from 2005 to 2022.

View attachment 110018
Click to expand...
I have done the exact same thing but I have done it from my point pool up to max points and am seeing on average 150 people/year drop. If it were to stay at that rate I should be assured a tag in the next 20 years, haha.
 
BradA said:
I have done the exact same thing but I have done it from my point pool up to max points and am seeing on average 150 people/year drop. If it were to stay at that rate I should be assured a tag in the next 20 years, haha.
Click to expand...
I'd like to see that math of a guaranteed tag in 20 years! My math is showing that it'll take around 60 years for the max point applicants to have 50% draw odds. That's assuming sheep tags stay constant. If we have more disease events and can't get new units opened up then that timeline will lengthen.

For me, my best sheep odds will be to move to Utah and then Nevada after I retire. In fact I think my odds in those states with my points could be >20%.
 
Bwht4x4 said:
I'd like to see that math of a guaranteed tag in 20 years! My math is showing that it'll take around 60 years for the max point applicants to have 50% draw odds. That's assuming sheep tags stay constant. If we have more disease events and can't get new units opened up then that timeline will lengthen.

For me, my best sheep odds will be to move to Utah and then Nevada after I retire. In fact I think my odds in those states with my points could be >20%.
Click to expand...
I should also mention that my numbers are associated with all sheep hunts aggregated together. Individual odds for specific sheep hunts will vary. I haven't done the math, but I think the odds of a max pt applicant drawing a White Mountains sheep tag in the next 20 years is pretty good!
 
Bwht4x4 said:
I should also mention that my numbers are associated with all sheep hunts aggregated together. Individual odds for specific sheep hunts will vary. I haven't done the math, but I think the odds of a max pt applicant drawing a White Mountains sheep tag in the next 20 years is pretty good!
Click to expand...
5% this year. i dont have 20 left. ha.
 
pacer1975 said:
5% this year. i dont have 20 left. ha.
Click to expand...
If only 5 of the 6 tags in the Whites go to max pts applicants I think the odds are in the 3% -4% range...if things stay steady. IMO >80% of people that apply for the Whites have never been up there. I summited the peak 12 years ago and I knew after that there's no way I would want to hunt it for a sheep hunt!
 
Last year my odds were 4.32%. my wife and I at 62 did the JMT, Whitney Summit. I would have no problem sheep hunting the whites. But only 50% harvest last year, my guess is 3 guys couldnt handle the physicality. Also, except for deer in ca. If you don't have max pts. It's the same as having 0 pts. And 700 guys are 1 pt. Behind max for sheep. They have no chance of being max.
 
pacer1975 said:
Last year my odds were 4.32%. my wife and I at 62 did the JMT, Whitney Summit. I would have no problem sheep hunting the whites. But only 50% harvest last year, my guess is 3 guys couldnt handle the physicality. Also, except for deer in ca. If you don't have max pts. It's the same as having 0 pts. And 700 guys are 1 pt. Behind max for sheep. They have no chance of being max.
Click to expand...
Whites had 6 tags last year. I personally ignore the tag that goes into the random pool since I'm always trying to draw one of the pref tags. Plus there were 2,800 total applicants with less than max points.

So, for the Whites I come up with 5/133 = 3.759%
 
Bwht4x4 said:
Whites had 6 tags last year. I personally ignore the tag that goes into the random pool since I'm always trying to draw one of the pref tags. Plus there were 2,800 total applicants with less than max points.

So, for the Whites I come up with 5/133 = 3.759%
Click to expand...
Just going with what gohunt says. 5 draws probably bumps that up. I am not pulling out my stats book from 79'. Ha
 
Bwht4x4 said:
Whites had 6 tags last year. I personally ignore the tag that goes into the random pool since I'm always trying to draw one of the pref tags. Plus there were 2,800 total applicants with less than max points.

So, for the Whites I come up with 5/133 = 3.759%
Click to expand...
That's better odds the me waking up with Carrie Underwood!
 
NE-ELKHTR said:
x1 point creep is going to be going up big time. There are alot of people really starting to apply for that unit. The state gives out way to many tags for that unit for rifle and the herd is really starting to show it. Not to mention the CA Predator; lions, wolves, bears, coyotes; support system they have going in that unit is not good.
Click to expand...
Planning on drawing x1 next year...
Will draw Utah 100%,
I got a honey hole in B1..
Plenty of these dinks in this Basin..( short hike in only). Found it after the fires.. it like the fire went right over top and didn't burn it..
Screenshot_20230511_203002_Gallery.jpg
 
Odds for sheep have increased over the years. The sheep draws were for two tags - one an auction tag, if I remember correctly.
 
Bwht4x4 said:
I'd like to see that math of a guaranteed tag in 20 years! My math is showing that it'll take around 60 years for the max point applicants to have 50% draw odds. That's assuming sheep tags stay constant. If we have more disease events and can't get new units opened up then that timeline will lengthen.

For me, my best sheep odds will be to move to Utah and then Nevada after I retire. In fact I think my odds in those states with my points could be >20%.
Click to expand...
So at the current rate of individuals falling off of the point pool I am in or ahead of me is on average 150 people per year that divided by the total amount would come to 20 years actually 19 now but with that being said that math going off of the average of individuals that are drawing, passing away, moving away and not applying any longer, or forgetting to apply. With that being said that math would be incorrect if one guy continues to apply and lives to 100. The math that you’re breaking down I believe is the amount of max point holders divided by the available tags available to max point holders. Either way I would exchange spreadsheets with each other if you would like and then we could further discuss it. If your interested send me your email on a PM.
 
I am personally waiting for more results before I apply. Already have procured ID OTC deer and elk tags, AZ OTC deer tag, and will hopefully draw my CO elk tag and maybe a WY elk tag In LIK2HNT‘s hard to draw unit.

Have CA max points left only for elk. I have been fortunate to have previously drawn my deer, sheep, and antelope tags. Might just do a bonus point this year for the elk tag but I hate to take myself out of the draw. Only so many hunting seasons in one‘s lifetime…

Good luck guys!

Horniac
 
pacer1975 said:
Last year my odds were 4.32%. my wife and I at 62 did the JMT, Whitney Summit. I would have no problem sheep hunting the whites. But only 50% harvest last year, my guess is 3 guys couldnt handle the physicality. Also, except for deer in ca. If you don't have max pts. It's the same as having 0 pts. And 700 guys are 1 pt. Behind max for sheep. They have no chance of being max.
Click to expand...
One of the hunters died scouting.....so....his tag had no chance of filling...must be how they came up with 50% out of 3 hunters
 
BradA said:
So at the current rate of individuals falling off of the point pool I am in or ahead of me is on average 150 people per year that divided by the total amount would come to 20 years actually 19 now but with that being said that math going off of the average of individuals that are drawing, passing away, moving away and not applying any longer, or forgetting to apply. With that being said that math would be incorrect if one guy continues to apply and lives to 100. The math that you’re breaking down I believe is the amount of max point holders divided by the available tags available to max point holders. Either way I would exchange spreadsheets with each other if you would like and then we could further discuss it. If your interested send me your email on a PM.
Click to expand...

Brad,

Are you in the max pt pool for CA sheep?
 
​
Brad,

Here's a new table I created, which paints an even worse picture than what I had before. Previously I was using 27 tags as the annual tag numbers, but this didn't take into account that 8 of them went to less than max point applicants in 2022 (and previous years) and also the new reduction in tags for the Marble/Clippers for 2023. Based on this I revised my numbers and use 15 tags per year going to the max point applicants. This could be an over estimate if we keep having disease events, but could also be low if CDFW finally opens the other four sheep units that have enough sheep to hunt.

I'd love to see your spreadsheet and even jump on the phone to discuss as I may be looking at these data in the wrong way and maybe your accounting shows a much better scenario!!

Year​
Max Pt Apps​
% Decrease in max pt applicants​
Max Point Applicants Applying for Points Only​
Proportion of Max Applicants that apply for Pts Only​
2009​
3059​
​
425​
13.9%​
2010​
2862​
6.4%​
394​
13.8%​
2011​
2746​
4.1%​
372​
13.5%​
2012​
2621​
4.6%​
367​
14.0%​
2013​
2431​
7.2%​
319​
13.1%​
2014​
2261​
7.0%​
372​
16.5%​
2015​
2165​
4.2%​
342​
15.8%​
2016​
2056​
5.0%​
314​
15.3%​
2017​
1967​
4.3%​
284​
14.4%​
2018​
1876​
4.6%​
290​
15.5%​
2019​
1832​
2.3%​
263​
14.4%​
2020​
1689​
7.8%​
251​
14.9%​
2021​
1599​
5.3%​
239​
14.9%​
2022​
1505​
5.9%​
223​
14.8%​
​
avgs​
5.3%​
​
14.6%​
​
​
​
​
​
​
Estimated Max Applicants (based on 5.3% annual decrease)​
Tags available to Max Pts Applicants (as of 2023)​
Odds
XX:1​
​
2023​
1425​
15​
95​
​
2024​
1350​
15​
90​
​
2025​
1278​
15​
85​
​
2026​
1210​
15​
81​
​
2027​
1146​
15​
76​
​
2028​
1086​
15​
72​
​
2029​
1028​
15​
69​
​
2030​
974​
15​
65​
​
2031​
922​
15​
61​
​
2032​
873​
15​
58​
​
2033​
827​
15​
55​
​
2034​
783​
15​
52​
​
2035​
742​
15​
49​
​
2036​
702​
15​
47​
​
2037​
665​
15​
44​
​
2038​
630​
15​
42​
​
2039​
596​
15​
40​
​
2040​
565​
15​
38​
​
2041​
535​
15​
36​
​
2042​
507​
15​
34​
​
2043​
480​
15​
32​
​
2044​
454​
15​
30​
​
2045​
430​
15​
29​
​
2046​
407​
15​
27​
​
2047​
386​
15​
26​
​
2048​
365​
15​
24​
​
2049​
346​
15​
23​
​
2050​
328​
15​
22​
​
 
I'd think it's safe to say that at least one or two of the tags that are available in the random draw are actually drawn by max point applicants.
 
PCPython said:
I'd think it's safe to say that at least one or two of the tags that are available in the random draw are actually drawn by max point applicants.
Click to expand...
I'll let you decide when you see the numbers below if many max point applicants draw in the random draw.

2022 Total DBHS applicants (not pref point applicants) = 13,134
2022 Total max point applicants applying for hunts = 1,282
2022 Total applicants apply for DBHS with < max points = 11,852

In the random draw the applicants with less than max points make up more than 90% of the applicants!!

IMO, I think max point holders draw in the random draw, but I'd bet it's pretty rare. It's like the NV where most people that draw are in that middle point ground because there are so many of them compared to the high point holders.
 
Yeah, you're probably right Dwayne. I guess it was just wishful thinking on my part trying to get more max point guys outta the pool since I'm at max.?
 
Might be a LONG time before max points will be guaranteed a tag. But even so, hunts are generally under 1:100 . Those are some of the best sheep odds you can get. It’s like a random draw with only a handful of applicants.

Now the Grizzly Island bull tag makes any Hail Mary draw look greasy.
 
LIK2HNT said:
Might be a LONG time before max points will be guaranteed a tag. But even so, hunts are generally under 1:100 . Those are some of the best sheep odds you can get. It’s like a random draw with only a handful of applicants.

Now the Grizzly Island bull tag makes any Hail Mary draw look greasy.
Click to expand...

The odds for max point applicants is pretty good. These are the odds from 2022. The Whites clearly have the best odds, and should, since that mountain is brutal! I've known two guys that have hunted it and it kicked their arses!! Like I said before, I'm not interested in the Whites because I've been to the top of the White Mtn peak and after that trip it's not really a place I want to hunt for any extended amount of time. I'd rather stick with more traditional desert sheep habitat at lower elevations.


Hunt CodeHunt Tag Description2022 Odds for Max Pt Applicants
XX:1
501Zone 1 - Marble/Clipper Mountains - General Method -
Ram		74
503Zone 3 - Clark and Kingston
Mountain Ranges - General Method - Ram		64
507Zone 7 - White Mountains - General Method - Ram27
508Zone 8 - South Bristol Mountains - General Method - Ram68
509Zone 9 - Cady Mountains - General Method - Ram65
510Zone 10 - Newberry, Rodman and Ord Mountains81
 
Obviously, most people will not draw sheep tags. Points pools will not clear due to tags being drawn. Attrition due to aging out, leaving the state, or dying should be getting bigger as time goes on. Another thing to consider is that the draw system/rules will change when enough people complain.

A coworker who ran ultra marathons at the time drew the Whites about 8 years ago. He couldn't handle the hunt and went home with his tail between his legs.
 
I don't get whites fear. At 62, my wife and did the jmt nobo. That's 40 lb. Pack, 3k vertical up. 3k down everyday for 21 days starting with a whitney summit@14,505, then look how many passes you go over to Yosemite over 11k..heck the 2nd pass nobo is Forester.
 
BradA said:
No I wish! I’m too young to be a max point holder. My only hope is that my information I have created is somewhat true in the next 19 years.
Click to expand...
When you have time lets connect to discuss our info/data. I'd love to see your data and have a second set of eyes on mine.
 
Bwht4x4 said:
When you have time lets connect to discuss our info/data. I'd love to see your data and have a second set of eyes on mine.
Click to expand...
For sure. Send me your email address and I will send it to you and you can take a look at it and then we can chat.
 
pacer1975 said:
I don't get whites fear. At 62, my wife and did the jmt nobo. That's 40 lb. Pack, 3k vertical up. 3k down everyday for 21 days starting with a whitney summit@14,505, then look how many passes you go over to Yosemite over 11k..heck the 2nd pass nobo is Forester.
Click to expand...
Everyone is different in their physical abilities. I think the main issues with the Whites is that you're driving up to 12k feet and starting your hunt and then hunting sheep in that 11k to 13k feet range for days on end. Starting the JMT at lower elevations and going over 13k passes, and then coming back down in elevation most every day is a lot different IMO. I've summitted Williamson and Tyndall (both 14k) on the same trip and we started at 6,300 feet and I didn't have single issue on that mutli-day trip. On the summit to the top of White Mtn I got altitude sickness, but made it to the top and couldn't wait to get back down. My dog did much better than I did!

1914562_1241898283188_4695438_n.jpg
 
Last edited:
Bwht4x4 said:
The odds for max point applicants is pretty good. These are the odds from 2022. The Whites clearly have the best odds, and should, since that mountain is brutal! I've known two guys that have hunted it and it kicked their arses!! Like I said before, I'm not interested in the Whites because I've been to the top of the White Mtn peak and after that trip it's not really a place I want to hunt for any extended amount of time. I'd rather stick with more traditional desert sheep habitat at lower elevations.


Hunt CodeHunt Tag Description2022 Odds for Max Pt Applicants
XX:1
501Zone 1 - Marble/Clipper Mountains - General Method -
Ram		74
503Zone 3 - Clark and Kingston
Mountain Ranges - General Method - Ram		64
507Zone 7 - White Mountains - General Method - Ram27
508Zone 8 - South Bristol Mountains - General Method - Ram68
509Zone 9 - Cady Mountains - General Method - Ram65
510Zone 10 - Newberry, Rodman and Ord Mountains81
Click to expand...
I am assuming the draw odds for max point Residents are much better than max points NR applicants due to the 10% NR cap.

It is possible that both NR tags could be drawn in the random draw this year which always occurs before the preference point draw. This would take all NR max point applicants out of the preference point drawing.

If one or both NR tags make it through to the preference point drawing once the NR cap is hit all remaining NR max point applications are ineligible to draw and for all practical purposes removed from the draw...

Horniac
 
Horniac said:
I am assuming the draw odds for max point Residents are much better than max points NR applicants due to the 10% NR cap.

It is possible that both NR tags could be drawn in the random draw this year which always occurs before the preference point draw. This would take all NR max point applicants out of the preference point drawing.

If one or both NR tags make it through to the preference point drawing once the NR cap is hit all remaining NR max point applications are ineligible to draw and for all practical purposes removed from the draw...

Horniac
Click to expand...
How many NRs do you think apply for CA sheep? I can't imagine it's all that many other than NRs that left the state with max points. Even then I know guys with max points that have left CA and never applied again.
 
I drew as a NR with max points in 2019. I still would like to know if that actually increased my odds since there might not be alot of NR's with max points. There were two tags issued to NR's that year.
 
Sambo said:
I drew as a NR with max points in 2019. I still would like to know if that actually increased my odds since there might not be alot of NR's with max points. There were two tags issued to NR's that year.
Click to expand...
I don't think they are obligated to draw the nr quota but I could be wrong.
 
For sure, max points helps a nonresident who applies in a zone with max points tags. A nonresident refugee from communist PRC with max points would be the only scenario that would make the application costs worth more than buying raffle chances in states that have desert bighorn raffle tags.
 
LIK2HNT said:
Great views from top of the mountain. Does she hunt and help pack out meat?
Click to expand...
She doesn't hunt, but she loves to go and will pack out the meat. She's in better shape than I am! Life is busy so we don't get to go on a lot of hunts together, but she's been on a few with me. I took her on my NM oryx hunt a few years ago. She's been pushing me hard for years to do a Dall sheep or Mexico DBHS hunt, but I just can't fathom spending that kind of money on a hunt.
 
Unless something changed I believe only 1 NR can pull a tag for a ram in the state. You can request the information from the Dept. Your almost need to know the order they pull the hunts to to strategize.

I looked into elk due to possibly moving and being 1 off max.

Q: How many nonresidents may be drawn for elk, pronghorn or a bighorn sheep tag?

A: Only one nonresident per license year may be drawn for each species (elk, pronghorn and bighorn sheep) (
link opens in new tab or window
Section 708.9(b)(10), 708.10(b)(8), 708.11(b)(8), Title 14, of the CCR).
 
I think it was changed a few years ago. From this years 2023 Big Game Hunting Digest;

BIGHORN SHEEP TAG APPLICATION RESTRICTIONS
Applicants must be at least 16 years of age or older on or before July 1, 2023, and possess a valid 2023-24 California hunting license and must not have drawn a California bighorn sheep tag in any prior year.
Not more than 10 percent of the bighorn sheep tags shall be awarded to non-residents each year.
Applicants cannot apply as a party for a bighorn sheep tag

Horniac
 
So up to two tags can go NR instead of one based off of the wording. Interesting that they don’t open it up to all 3 species. @BradA had mentioned that it got talked about but could never find anything official for the other two.

My gut tells me the digest is correct. I apply for a ram every year but since I wasn’t part of the age class that came up with the scam I doubt I’ll ever draw one in CA.
 
Skykarp said:
So up to two tags can go NR instead of one based off of the wording. Interesting that they don’t open it up to all 3 species. @BradA had mentioned that it got talked about but could never find anything official for the other two.

My gut tells me the digest is correct. I apply for a ram every year but since I wasn’t part of the age class that came up with the scam I doubt I’ll ever draw one in CA.
Click to expand...
From the same source;

ELK AND PRONGHORN TAG APPLICATION RESTRICTIONS
Applicants must be 12 years of age or older on or before July 1, 2023, and possess a valid 2023-24 California hunting license.
Only one nonresident may be drawn for an elk or pronghorn tag annually.

Not sure why they only changed BHS…

Horniac
 
Horniac said:
From the same source;

ELK AND PRONGHORN TAG APPLICATION RESTRICTIONS
Applicants must be 12 years of age or older on or before July 1, 2023, and possess a valid 2023-24 California hunting license.
Only one nonresident may be drawn for an elk or pronghorn tag annually.

Not sure why they only changed BHS…

Horniac
Click to expand...
Let me guess why they changed it to 10% max on desert sheep. Nonresident money. Desert bighorn is the one species CA has that will get nonresidents to fork out application and licence fees just to apply. An elk slam isn't as elite of a deal.

BTW, there are no restrictions per residency for deer. But, our trophy draw deer hunting wouldn't merit the cost of applying unless you were buying the license for something else.
 
Bwht4x4 said:
How many NRs do you think apply for CA sheep? I can't imagine it's all that many other than NRs that left the state with max points. Even then I know guys with max points that have left CA and never applied again.
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With so many individuals moving out of California the past couple years I would say there are a decent amount of nr max point apps, but it would be interesting to see a true number. I typically hear of or know someone every year that is a nr and draws and they had lived in California at some point.
 
Sambo said:
I drew as a NR with max points in 2019. I still would like to know if that actually increased my odds since there might not be alot of NR's with max points. There were two tags issued to NR's that year.
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It didn’t increase your odds.
 
ElmerFudd said:
Let me guess why they changed it to 10% max on desert sheep. Nonresident money. Desert bighorn is the one species CA has that will get nonresidents to fork out application and licence fees just to apply. An elk slam isn't as elite of a deal.

BTW, there are no restrictions per residency for deer. But, our trophy draw deer hunting wouldn't merit the cost of applying unless you were buying the license for something else.
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If they really wanted to make some money they would open up the draw to a separate application for Sierra Nevada BH sheep hunt.
 
BradA said:
If they really wanted to make some money they would open up the draw to a separate application for Sierra Nevada BH sheep hunt.
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There's for sure two other, and possibly 4, new DBHS units that they could open that could easily be hunted each year. The Nopah Range and the Castle and Piute Mountains could easily have a couple of tags each.
 
As crazy as it sounds. I just moved out of California. I have max deer points and will still stay in the game paying NR fees.
 
If I were boss of the draw system, I would have made it like Idaho does. If you choose to apply for sheep, that's the only draw you can apply for. I would never have drawn my tule elk tag, but would still have chosen sheep from the start.
 
ElmerFudd said:
If I were boss of the draw system, I would have made it like Idaho does. If you choose to apply for sheep, that's the only draw you can apply for. I would never have drawn my tule elk tag, but would still have chosen sheep from the start.
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This system was designed to create a division between hunters- a minority of haves, who remain so for decades and a majority of have-nots, who will never be haves.
 
The current draw system will be changed when enough have nots complain loudly enough. The only question is when. Selfishly, I want to draw first, but realize that the ponzi scheme is unfair to those not first in.
 
ElmerFudd said:
The current draw system will be changed when enough have nots complain loudly enough. The only question is when. Selfishly, I want to draw first, but realize that the ponzi scheme is unfair to those not first in.
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Even the DFW admitted it was unfair. They don't want to make Max Point holders angry is their response.
 

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