What happened to fair chase

goinhuntn

Active Member
Messages
533
There are some shows on the outdoor channel that show long range
shooting. Though these these guys are experienced shooters and have practiced lots, where is the sport in shooting an animal that is 700 to 1000 yards away! I know i'm going to get heat
for this post, but people watch these shows & than try to duplicate the shots. I am an avid hunter & love this sport,
but with all the technology out today what is the fun in killing an animal that doesn't even have a chance. It just
doesn't seem like fair chase to me with shots like that. Not
to mention how many animals are wounded & never recovered
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-05-10 AT 06:14PM (MST)[p]I agree, but your going to hear all kinds of comments, like we need to stick together as hunters,and its up to the person and their personal skill, and on and on. Im afraid to most their just "gettin er done"
 
I've watched the particular show myself.
Impressive shooting with impressive outfits.
I can't come to judge at all, but I don't think that's the thing for me, as I play to get close in to the quarry. That's how I was taught as a youngster and I like it and I'm sticking with it.

Rump
 
The only problem I have with shooting at that range is that most people won't walk that far to go check for blood. They just assume that if it didn't drop it was a miss. Don't shoot if you're not willing to go check for blood.
 
The thing that worries me: Several years ago, the majority of guys trying the long bomb shots were the ones that built the rifle, loaded the ammo, customized EVERYTHING. Hours upon hours of work and practice. There were very few to even THINK of shooting that far. NOW there's ballistic scopes available with hash marks to 1000 yards. You can buy the rifle and tailored ammo and tailored scope...comes right to your door. You get idiots that think, "Well, my rangefinder tells me 800 yds and I KNOW my rifles trajectory out to 800 so it's a slam dunk shot right? I'll just put this here 800 line on that there deer and it's all over." These long range companies will have you believe it's easy because they want your money....and there are plenty of suckers out there eating it up.
 
i shot my dream buck this year at 612 yards one shot kill. that's as close as i could get and it was now or never. i chose now! i can tell you i was just as excited and its just as nice of a trophy at 612 yards as it is at 100 yards. i consider it being well rounded. perfecting your game and covering all your bases. if you want fair chase try killing it with your bare hands without a gun,scope binoculars or anything else that gives you an advantage.
 
weapon limits are already in place for seasons and someday these limits will become more restrictive due to mans capability. I do see most states having an "unlimited" weapons season where pretty much any thing goes but the length of the season will be the big controlling point.
 
I agree with most of you. I just can't help but think that I would be mad as hell if I was with a guide and the best he could do was 700 yrds. Really, if you pay a guide and thats as close as they can get you they should refund the money.
 
LOL, You people are amazing and really have no clue. if joe blow cant hit a deer at 100 and misses by a foot either way then you have no worries at a grand, and them getting anywhere in the same time zone as the animal and your worried about blood. I can assure all you non believers that you can tell if an animal is hit at 1000 yds with a 250 gr bullett they go straight south, and there is just as much skill involved as stalking in on a big muley and taking him with a bow at 20 yds i should know im passionate about both !!
 
I agree the shots are rediculous. It's called hunting. Shooting animals at 1000 yards is just target practice. They will never show all the animals they miss or worse yet wound. Not for me!!
 
I am thinking that the next stage is when the DOW captures animals in the summer and places microchips so we can use a tracking devise like a GPS and not really have to hunt them, and with the 1000+ shots and all the other technology will we not be changing how we call the seasons from hunting to just killing. Just a thought but what do I know

Wildsage
 
i dont like these long shots because i'm jealous of the equipment they are using. i wish i had the money for a christensen arms 300 mag, and a swaro drop compesating scope. and i wish i had the money to buy the reloading equipment as well to hand tune and perfect my grouping.

in all honesty, to each his own. i perfer sneaking in close with a bow, but placing a bullet in a deer's side at 800 yards to me is equally difficult in its own way.
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-06-10 AT 03:13PM (MST)[p]At what point does it become "shooting" more than "hunting". I hunt almost exclusively with a rifle and can't say I'm a big fan of this latest "long range" craze. To each his own I guess.

400 is a hell of a long shot for me. Unless the situation is perfect I'll try to get closer or pass.








the artist formerly known as "gemstatejake".
 
It's not hunting anymore - its shooting.
You"ll never hear about the 1000 yard gut shot.
Only those that managed to hit something vital.
I dont give a crap if you can hit a target every time
out to 800yds. or whatever - A live animal under
hunting conditions is a TOTALLY different ball game
and deserves more respect than that. Heck, hunters
deserve more respect than that. We are digging our
own graves!!! As always a few are going to ruin it
for the rest!!!
 
My concern is adjusting for the wind.

I have scoped 1000 yard plus distances and the wind were I am is calm yet small limbs are moving a few hundred yards away and tree tops are swaying 1000 yards away in a slightly different direction.

How do you ethically adjust for that situation?
 
Yes, even with modern equipment, wind drift is a huge uncertainty on long shots. Easily enough uncertainty to turn good shot into a gutshot...

You see and hear about the good shots...Funny thing, not too much mention of the bad ones;)
 
I'm glad to see alot of guys agree these longshots are ridiculous. I guess it boils down to what you think is ethical.
Me personally like to get as close as possible to the animal.I'm
a bowhunter as well as a rifle hunter. With my bow I won't take a shot over 40 yards thats my comfort zone. A rifle 250 yards is
the limit even its the buck of a lifetime. I guess it is up to the individual.
 
I agree with a lot of what is being said and also feel it is not something I would want just anyone out there trying but there are many people out there very capable of the shot IMO.

I would guess the time line for a bullet to go 1000 yards is much faster than many of the long archery shots (80+) and you don't have the concern of the deer jumping the sound of the gun as in the string for archers and it is fast enough not to allow for a couple steps as in archery at longer ranges so I don't think the two compare.

I have shot deer at over 600 yards and my son made a 707 yard shot on a forkie mulie this year that we couldn't get closer to and I was VERY confident in him and my rifle to make the shot after A LOT of pre-season shooting. Two days before that I had him in to 60 yards or less of 3 four points and he couldn't pick them out of the brush before they busted us and blew out. I could have killed one but wanted him to.

My point is to each their own as long as they are not out there randomly shooting at whatever range if they are not capable. I feel a hunter needs to be versatile and take advantage of his skills whatever they are, we were able to get in close on some bucks and not get it done and we were not able to get close on others and still got it done, VERSATILITY!

As for me I don't shoot at over 750 yards or so and 40 with my bow would be a stretch since I shoot a recurve nowadays and if the buck of a lifetime shows himself inside those he is gettin' heat if he's outside well conditions will dictate and I don't believe anyone who says he is accurate to 250 with his rifle but would pass on the buck of a lifetime at 300.

Bill
 
Well I am on the fence on this one. Would I like to shoot a Deer at 1000 yds. H*** yes if he was a monster and he was all the way across the canyon and I didn't think there was anyway to get any closer to him. I don't have the equipment or the practice to make such a shot though. Am I going to set here and say that no one should no. If they have the equipment and practice then thats their decision. I have a couple guys I work with that are into the Long Range hunting thing. The problem that I do have with it is that they are always in a competition to outdo the last shot a guy in there group shot. There current longest shot is at 1130 yds. or something like that. So they are cow elk hunting now and I guess that one of them tried a 1300 or 1400 yd shot at a cow and missed. Why did he miss? Well where they were at, there was only a slight wind blowing. Across the canyon they were shooting the wind was blowing a lot harder and his bullet hit way left of the elk. That to me is the problem. Unless they design something that can tell you how the wind is blowing across 1000+ yds of area how do you know where to hold? Just because the wind is blowing 5 mph where you are doesn't mean its the same all the way to the animal your shooting. Like they said above "to each their own".

Josh
 
my 2 cents. to this topic. i think long range shooting and accurracy is sweet. 1000yd. shots within 2 to 4 inches consectuvely is nothing short of impressive and phenonimal. i thinks those talents are few and are earned by extreme training and good restraint. to me they have a specific place, snipers, taking out enemy targets, hostage situations, and people that are trying to kill you or your own, what better talent to have to stay alive and keep others alive.
like above posts, theres too much commercialization of open up a box and bolt it on, or watch this video, and now you can kill anything within a quartermile.
takes alot of time behind the rifle in alot of variables to walk away with the confidence of 100yd absolutes..
and like the above posts, many are not going to check for blood or any other kind of evidence across canyon or brushy draw...
and now that i have been enlightened on being able to see animal hits with a 338 edge i know what i have been doing wrong.

double lunged a doe this year with a 270wsm at 60 yds, her response was like shooting straight up in the air. hit a bull moose with a 340 wby at 90 yds twice, double lung, it never moved, stood there just staring like it was blind and deaf. didnt run fell over dead, but no sign of a hit, shot a bear sitting in the center of the chest, took of like a coyote getting shot at, dead as a door nail within 70 yds. actual shot taken at 130. a big feeding buck at 60 yds in the snow quartering away behind the shoulder then up into the next, no exit out of a 284, the buck semi sat down and gone with the wind, found about 70 yds away, not ONE drop of blood in a field of snow. shot a bull elk at 380 yds. double lung in the pouring rain, him and his cows took off to the timber, looked and sounded like a clean miss, dead just inside the timber 40yds...
all these animals would have never been recovered if i would have never checked, also killed with perfect shot placement at close range.
and i am only one hunter, and my stories ring true with alot of others every year.
animals are not paper targets and steel plates, i say give them the respect on proper shot placement according to your level.
to those who can absolutly do it at 1000yds, more power to ya,
to most hunters i think we would prefer to get closer thats part of the sport.
 
I can see it now, a hunter is working his way to a buck to get within a couple of hundred yards and one of the long rangers takes a shot from 1000+ yards, could be trouble and it doesn't make any difference if he misses or hits the animal. Just another thing to cause problems in the field. Maybe it is a way for most to still ride their ATV's and shoot from the ATV rather than actually stalk an animal. I guess I don't have a problem with what others do as long as it is legal but the more we have of this kind of hunting it will only make more division in our hunting community.

Wildsage
 
Long range SHOOTING just might be the straw that breaks the camels back. There are enough advantages to the basic scoped rifle and compound bow to make it hard for an animal to survive to maturity. Nobody will be able to stop anybody from taking a long range shot, but we need to educate people to not shoot young animals. If everybody shoots forkies at 700 yards, then we will have problems. It is hard to chase those poor uneducated deer away from the road, where is the sport in getting 700 yards, even on smart mature deer? It is just letting the rifle and scope do all the work. Unfortunately we all have a different idea of what is hunting. For me its getting within 50 yards of a mature animal, for some it is seeing how far their setup will kill (bow or rifle). To each their own, not much anybody can do about it except limit opportunity and educate what is a mature animal.

I say leave the longrange SHOOTING for targets, rabbits, and groundhogs. Big Game Animals are to valuable of a resource to take advantage of.
 
Well said fly4fish! Big game animals are a resource & deserve
the respect. Long range shooting is just going to be another
nail in the coffin to all the anti hunters. We as hunters need to wake up & do our part to save our sport & keep it as fair chase as possible.
 
>Well said fly4fish! Big game animals
>are a resource & deserve
>
>the respect. Long range shooting is
>just going to be another
>
>nail in the coffin to all
>the anti hunters. We as
>hunters need to wake up
>& do our part to
>save our sport & keep
>it as fair chase as
>possible.



You want to keep it as fair chase as possible??? Ok, then drop the Gun, Scope, Bino's, spotting scope, and anything else that gives you an advantage and kill the son of a beotch with your bare hands. After all they deserve the respect right?
I gave the buck I shot alot of "Respect" this year. Exactly 190 grains worth! And I will "Respect" him when he is going down my throat covered in BBQ sauce.
 
Exactly one_dryboot!

Unless your hunting with a stickbow and wood arrows and without any optics and walking from your house to your hunting area then you are using something that gives you a huge advantage over the game your pursuing IMO.

It's not for everyone but long range shooting in and of itself doesn't make someone a bad or lesser hunter. The hunter with a Henries tag or a piece of private ground with exclusive rights of trespass has a MUCH greater advantage over the game than a long range shooter.

Just because YOU say I or anyone else shouldn't shoot at game over 250 yards or I am unethical and gonna ruin the sport means absolutely NOTHING to me since I know guys riding around in the back of pickups holding bows wearing camo who shouldn't even draw a bow let alone shoot at deer because they are such HORRIBLE shots and MANY guys who NEVER shoot their gun except at a beer can the day before the hunt and any deer unfortunate enough to step out in front of them. THOSE are the guys who are gonna ruin the sport. Along with possibly division amongst us from people who think their chit don't stink and their way is the ONLY right way.

Bill
 
No one has responded because this post reeks of elitism.This subject has been gone over so many times I can't even count them all.If someone doesn't do it the way you do,they are wrong.How many of you use 4-wheelers for hunting?Rangefinders?Trailcams?Etc,etc,etc.Blah,blah,blah.Why should you even care how someone else hunts as long as it doesn't interfere with you and it's legal?You guys are a bunch of self-righteous snobs.This attitude is the biggest threat to hunting today.I knew better than to respond,but whatever.Fire away,boys.
 
This post "reeks" of taking the high road, having some discipline, restraint, character, and maybe some class while out hunting. THIS is why it took so long for SOME to respond.
Reap it!
 
Yeah-you guys are right.If we all become "ethical" hunters(in your eyes),the anti-hunters will all give up the fight.With all the threats to hunting out there,it boggles my mind that some people want to pick on another hunters methods.WOW!
 
It's kind of like driving.
Everyone that is going slower than you is an idiot.....
Everyone going faster than you is a maniac!
 
I watched a hunting show where the host was trying to take a muley buck at 1000 yards. He was hunting on an Indian reservation in South Dakota and was passing on shots that were 200 to 300 yards just to get footage of him shooting a buck at 1000 yards. He was using a 50 cal and he was hunting the reservation because he claimed it was illegal to use in South Dakota (don't know if that true or not). That was wrong in my mind... I don't want anybody but myself telling me how far I can shoot. Be it bow or rifle it is up to the individual. I believe most of the people on MM try to get a close to the animal as they can. I say congrats to those that can shoot the long shots. It is their choice. That being said I believe we as hunter should always kill a quickly and cleanly as possible. That might be 70 yards for some with a rifle and much further for others.
 
This subject of long range shooting/hunting has little to do with fair chase and much to do with ethics. I've personally witnessed one guy from 300 yards unload his rifle at a herd of elk only to completely miss and another guy shoot from 900 yards at a smaller target, deer or coyote and make a fatal first shot. What does that have to do with fair chase??? Personally my best group on paper was from 625 yards and was 1 1/8" group of three bullets, however, I personally won't shoot at a deer sized animal past 600 yds because I've shot enough to know how the conditions affect the outcome. However, there are plenty of guys better than me and I only hope they are ETHICAL enough to make the right choice in the field. And that goes for you guys who shoot their guns once a year before the hunt opens and are happy with a 2" group at 100 yds too. Ethics and respect of the wildlife should influence your shots.

Good shooting, Steve
 
Go post this thread on longrangehunting.com. You'll be able to smell the flames coming through yer computer. Personally I would like to believe if yer gonna dump $2k on a Huskema set up, that yer gonna spend the time to become proficient at shooting it at long range. No different than buying any other gun. If you don't spend the time at the range, yer just as guilty and we all know plenty of those guys exist. Every year I see wounded antelope out goat and chicken hunting. I've been mulling converting my 300 RUM into a long ranger. I figure I can spend the summer months dialing it in. Won't be hard to tell what distances I'm consistantly accurate at. Anything further than that would be off limits, the same way it is with my current set up.
 
There is nothing wrong with a buck that is too far away getting away to live another day. Being a long range marksman is definately a skill but too often on TV they are shooting at extended ranges just for the sake of doing it. I'd just as soon leave the long range stuff for prairie dogs.
 
As far as fair chase goes I won't get into that because I think most already have there mind made up on this. Here's something to think about though..

I would dare say I spend more time shooting and getting to know my guns than 90% of the people out hunting the general deer hunt. If wounding animals are the main concern then who would you rather have shooting at a deer? Someone that knows where his bullet is going to impact at 600 yrds and knows what the elements will do to it? Or the weekend warrior that sets up a pie plate/can at 50 paces and as long as he scare's the he!! out of it he is ready to go huntin'. Tell me you or someone you know hasn't done this. I seen a deer lose a leg at 75 yrds this year!
 
I agree. even the people that are supposedly experienced shooters still lose animals and don't even know it.
 

Click-a-Pic ... Details & Bigger Photos
Back
Top Bottom