H
huntsonora
Guest
What are your thoughts
Drummond
What are your thoughts
Drummond
I think it's some of the most Un-Common
Sense police work I've ever witnessed in my
life.
I don't think it's smart to back talk the cops,
but I don't think the Officer handled it worth
a flip.
I'd be curious what State this was. Wouldn't be suprised
if he is not a police officer anymore.
He may have "technically" handled it the way he was supposed
to. I have no idea. But he handled it VERY poorly.
Either way, I think the officer could have resolved it without
all of that.
Could be where two idiots came together, who knows. Interesting.
lrv
Sense police work I've ever witnessed in my
life.
I don't think it's smart to back talk the cops,
but I don't think the Officer handled it worth
a flip.
I'd be curious what State this was. Wouldn't be suprised
if he is not a police officer anymore.
He may have "technically" handled it the way he was supposed
to. I have no idea. But he handled it VERY poorly.
Either way, I think the officer could have resolved it without
all of that.
Could be where two idiots came together, who knows. Interesting.
lrv
H
Hooked_on_Coues
Guest
Irv,
Why is the Officer wrong? He used some poor tactics on the stop but the taser itself was justified.
The kid refused to sign the ticket and wanted to argue. He then became actively resistant. The use of force is appropriate.
John Q doesn't like the reality of violence, and the huge increase of video brings it home to us in large color. There is nothing pretty about violence. The fact is the use of tasers is getting a bad rap because it looks bad. There is actually a smaller chance of injury with the use of tasers, both for the officer and suspect, because the officer does not have to get into fistfighting distance.
Why is the Officer wrong? He used some poor tactics on the stop but the taser itself was justified.
The kid refused to sign the ticket and wanted to argue. He then became actively resistant. The use of force is appropriate.
John Q doesn't like the reality of violence, and the huge increase of video brings it home to us in large color. There is nothing pretty about violence. The fact is the use of tasers is getting a bad rap because it looks bad. There is actually a smaller chance of injury with the use of tasers, both for the officer and suspect, because the officer does not have to get into fistfighting distance.
G
gilamonster8
Guest
>Irv,
>
>Why is the Officer wrong?
>He used some poor tactics
>on the stop but the
>taser itself was justified.
>
>The kid refused to sign the
>ticket and wanted to argue.
> He then became actively
>resistant. The use of
>force is appropriate.
>
>John Q doesn't like the reality
>of violence, and the huge
>increase of video brings it
>home to us in large
>color. There is nothing
>pretty about violence. The
>fact is the use of
>tasers is getting a bad
>rap because it looks bad.
> There is actually a
>smaller chance of injury with
>the use of tasers, both
>for the officer and suspect,
>because the officer does not
>have to get into fistfighting
>distance.
Amen Do as your told and you wont get the tazer. If the cop is in the wrong the fight should be in the court room not on the street.
>
>Why is the Officer wrong?
>He used some poor tactics
>on the stop but the
>taser itself was justified.
>
>The kid refused to sign the
>ticket and wanted to argue.
> He then became actively
>resistant. The use of
>force is appropriate.
>
>John Q doesn't like the reality
>of violence, and the huge
>increase of video brings it
>home to us in large
>color. There is nothing
>pretty about violence. The
>fact is the use of
>tasers is getting a bad
>rap because it looks bad.
> There is actually a
>smaller chance of injury with
>the use of tasers, both
>for the officer and suspect,
>because the officer does not
>have to get into fistfighting
>distance.
Amen Do as your told and you wont get the tazer. If the cop is in the wrong the fight should be in the court room not on the street.
M
manny15
Guest
I think they both had chitty attitudes...
Guys,
Please understand, I'm looking at it from a
"What will Internal Afairs do to my axx" mode, OK.....
If you want to talk Cop to Cop, I'd of liked to of hit the
smart assed SOB between the EYE's so hard his ear wax
would have landed three feet away.
Y'all have me mistaken with someone else, I assure you.
Does that make any sense ??
I've hit TX prison inmates pretty hard. As hard as I could.
I AGREE with the officer. I disagree with the way he kinda
layed his azz out there. If he'd of been a little more
SMART in the way he handled it, I think we wouldn't be talking
about it right now.
But I wasn't there. And He very well could have handled it the
best way that was available.
Sorry if I came across that way. I support our officers
above all else, I assure you.
Larry
Please understand, I'm looking at it from a
"What will Internal Afairs do to my axx" mode, OK.....
If you want to talk Cop to Cop, I'd of liked to of hit the
smart assed SOB between the EYE's so hard his ear wax
would have landed three feet away.
Y'all have me mistaken with someone else, I assure you.
Does that make any sense ??
I've hit TX prison inmates pretty hard. As hard as I could.
I AGREE with the officer. I disagree with the way he kinda
layed his azz out there. If he'd of been a little more
SMART in the way he handled it, I think we wouldn't be talking
about it right now.
But I wasn't there. And He very well could have handled it the
best way that was available.
Sorry if I came across that way. I support our officers
above all else, I assure you.
Larry
M
magicmuleys
Guest
Looks to me like the cop planned what he was going to do.
When the guy saw the cop pointing the taser at him he looked like he was in disbelief of what was going on.
I would say a little over excited. Maybe trying to prove a point.
When the guy saw the cop pointing the taser at him he looked like he was in disbelief of what was going on.
I would say a little over excited. Maybe trying to prove a point.
M
magicmuleys
Guest
Think what that woman was going through.
Scared to Death.
Scared to Death.
BeanMan
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 6,971
LAST EDITED ON Nov-22-07 AT 10:16PM (MST)[p]It would be interesting to hear how it turned out. My take is the officer woke up on the wrong side of the bed and was taking it out on the Man. The Man should have followed intructions but it is reasonable to ask questions. I'm pretty sure you don't have a choice about signing the ticket and had the Man had not stated that he would not sign the ticket it would have turned out differently. I'd be curious to know if it was legal for him to search the car at the end of the tape. I could be wrong but I think in Colorado the policeman would have to ask permission for the search. Not especially good Police work IMHO.
Edit: Watched the first part of the video again and the 40 MPH sign is as obvious as it gets.
Beanman
Edit: Watched the first part of the video again and the 40 MPH sign is as obvious as it gets.
Beanman
Beanman,
I thought the same thing about the cop seaching the car. In Ca they have to ask fist also.
The cop might have over-reacted who knows for sure..
I would also like to say that law enforcement have to be in complete controll of every situation, if not then people can get hurt or killed.Untill the kid got zapped,the cop didn't have controll. And in the end the stun-gun didn't really hurt the kid. In my opinion the passenger had a worse day than the driver.
I thought the same thing about the cop seaching the car. In Ca they have to ask fist also.
The cop might have over-reacted who knows for sure..
I would also like to say that law enforcement have to be in complete controll of every situation, if not then people can get hurt or killed.Untill the kid got zapped,the cop didn't have controll. And in the end the stun-gun didn't really hurt the kid. In my opinion the passenger had a worse day than the driver.
idabigbuck
Active Member
- Messages
- 134
IMO,
The kids attitude is typical of the attitude I see all the time. No respect for authority and you can't tell me what to do. When he started walking off in complete disobedience to a lawful order, he chose to get tazed! He decided right then and there he was going to get tazed. I think the officer showed a great deal of restraint. The officer had know idea if he was dealing with a serial killer, or wife batterer or what.
Very simple do what your told or suffer the consequences.
Its fair chase, or its foul!
The kids attitude is typical of the attitude I see all the time. No respect for authority and you can't tell me what to do. When he started walking off in complete disobedience to a lawful order, he chose to get tazed! He decided right then and there he was going to get tazed. I think the officer showed a great deal of restraint. The officer had know idea if he was dealing with a serial killer, or wife batterer or what.
Very simple do what your told or suffer the consequences.
Its fair chase, or its foul!
CAelknuts
Moderator
- Messages
- 3,833
Interesting. Based on the video, I tend to side with the officer. Whether you think he's right or not is irrelevant, he IS the law and you're under obligation to follow his instructions. If he's done something wrong or out of line, you can file a complaint with his department at a later time.
Earlier this year, we had a deputy sheriff on solo patrol in a rural area of Sacramento County. He made a stop in the middle of the night on a van without license plates, and nobody knows what happened after that. He didn't respond to a wellness check call shortly after his stop, and when other deputies arrived on scene, he was laying next to his car, dead from a shot to the head with his own sidearm. They've never found deputy Jeff Mitchell's murderer, and have no leads that have been made public. His patrol car did not have a video camera onboard.
In another incident earlier this year, one I started a thread about here on MM, a California Game Warden cited a druggie where he was living, for a misdemeanor violation and subsequently found out that the tweaker had an outstanding warrant from Hawai'i for distribution of meth. He, much like this fellow, refused to follow the game warden's orders and refused to surrender for arrest. Instead, he walked into his trailer and came out with a shotgun leveled at the warden, who promptly shot him to death, justifiably so. Perhaps, if the warden had more assertive and tazed the druggie when he refused to follow orders and stop before walking into his trailer, he'd have been able to arrest him without having to defend his own life.
I can't imagine why anyone would fail to understand that law enforcement officers are to be obeyed at the scene of a stop, and you can deal with any disagreement or dispute later. In this case, the officer seems to have acted properly, IMO.
Earlier this year, we had a deputy sheriff on solo patrol in a rural area of Sacramento County. He made a stop in the middle of the night on a van without license plates, and nobody knows what happened after that. He didn't respond to a wellness check call shortly after his stop, and when other deputies arrived on scene, he was laying next to his car, dead from a shot to the head with his own sidearm. They've never found deputy Jeff Mitchell's murderer, and have no leads that have been made public. His patrol car did not have a video camera onboard.
In another incident earlier this year, one I started a thread about here on MM, a California Game Warden cited a druggie where he was living, for a misdemeanor violation and subsequently found out that the tweaker had an outstanding warrant from Hawai'i for distribution of meth. He, much like this fellow, refused to follow the game warden's orders and refused to surrender for arrest. Instead, he walked into his trailer and came out with a shotgun leveled at the warden, who promptly shot him to death, justifiably so. Perhaps, if the warden had more assertive and tazed the druggie when he refused to follow orders and stop before walking into his trailer, he'd have been able to arrest him without having to defend his own life.
I can't imagine why anyone would fail to understand that law enforcement officers are to be obeyed at the scene of a stop, and you can deal with any disagreement or dispute later. In this case, the officer seems to have acted properly, IMO.
Tuffbucker
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,035
The driver broke the law by speeding...28 mph over the limit (technically that consititues reckless driving by Utah Law. He's lucky he was only being cited for speeding.)
The driver broke the law by refusing to sign the citation.
The driver broke the law by failing to complay with the officers lawful order.
The driver broke the law by walking away from the officer, when he was attempting to take him into custody, therefore resisting arrest.
The driver was arrogant and non-compliant. The officer got sucked into the drivers game and was bit short with him back, but when the officer gives him a lawful order and the suspect refuses to comply, the officer used reasonable force to effect the arrest. Had the officer gone "hands on" he could have easily been injured, or he and/or the suspect could have been killed had they wrestled into the roadway. Not only that, but in such a rural area, the officer's back up would have been a long time out. Try fighting with someone with all that equiptment on....I dont care who you are or how good of shape you are in....you will last 1-2 minutes max!!
Also, the people who were asking about the officer searching the vehicle without permission. It is called SEARCH INCIDENT TO ARREST. It is one of the exceptions to the 4th ammendment, which covers search and seizure. When you are arrested, you are subject to a search of your person. If you are in a vehicle, your vehicle's passenger compartment is subject to search as well.
There are plenty of things that both sides could've done to make this situation better, but its easy to Monday morning quarterback...but when you are the one of the side of the road with a non-compliant suspect, things can go downhill fast. The officer had probable cause to make a lawful arrest, the driver obviously was non-compliant and passive-aggressive, so the officer used the force he deemed neccessary to make the arrest. Good enough for me.
The driver broke the law by refusing to sign the citation.
The driver broke the law by failing to complay with the officers lawful order.
The driver broke the law by walking away from the officer, when he was attempting to take him into custody, therefore resisting arrest.
The driver was arrogant and non-compliant. The officer got sucked into the drivers game and was bit short with him back, but when the officer gives him a lawful order and the suspect refuses to comply, the officer used reasonable force to effect the arrest. Had the officer gone "hands on" he could have easily been injured, or he and/or the suspect could have been killed had they wrestled into the roadway. Not only that, but in such a rural area, the officer's back up would have been a long time out. Try fighting with someone with all that equiptment on....I dont care who you are or how good of shape you are in....you will last 1-2 minutes max!!
Also, the people who were asking about the officer searching the vehicle without permission. It is called SEARCH INCIDENT TO ARREST. It is one of the exceptions to the 4th ammendment, which covers search and seizure. When you are arrested, you are subject to a search of your person. If you are in a vehicle, your vehicle's passenger compartment is subject to search as well.
There are plenty of things that both sides could've done to make this situation better, but its easy to Monday morning quarterback...but when you are the one of the side of the road with a non-compliant suspect, things can go downhill fast. The officer had probable cause to make a lawful arrest, the driver obviously was non-compliant and passive-aggressive, so the officer used the force he deemed neccessary to make the arrest. Good enough for me.
C
ClorideRUS
Guest
I'm probably wasting my time responding to this thread. Seems like everything I post lately gets nuked.
Anyway, are we to assume that police training dictates that everyone is presumed to be an axxhole until proven innocent? If every time you are confronted by law enforcement you can expect 50k volts in the chest if you don't acknowledge them as supreme commanders of the universe. Must be a lonely job if you are trained to kick someone?s a$$ if they disagree with you.
I acknowledge the stress of the unknown when approaching a situation with no idea what you are dealing with. However in this particular case, how much common sense does it take to see that a guy, his young daughter and pregnant wife are not a threat?
I know it doesn't matter, but if any of you basinites ever met this kid you'd know what I mean.
I know this will piss TUFFBUFF off but I hope this trooper gets reassigned to dispatcher duty!
RUS
Anyway, are we to assume that police training dictates that everyone is presumed to be an axxhole until proven innocent? If every time you are confronted by law enforcement you can expect 50k volts in the chest if you don't acknowledge them as supreme commanders of the universe. Must be a lonely job if you are trained to kick someone?s a$$ if they disagree with you.
I acknowledge the stress of the unknown when approaching a situation with no idea what you are dealing with. However in this particular case, how much common sense does it take to see that a guy, his young daughter and pregnant wife are not a threat?
I know it doesn't matter, but if any of you basinites ever met this kid you'd know what I mean.
I know this will piss TUFFBUFF off but I hope this trooper gets reassigned to dispatcher duty!
RUS
Tuffbucker
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,035
RUS,
You arent going to piss me off....Just dont be too upset when nothing happens to this trooper. The trooper never violated the law, nor did he violate policy regarding taser use.
This kid didnt get tased just for being a jacka$$....he got tased because he resisted arrest and the officer didnt feel like getting into a fist fight with an already uncooperative suspect.
The problem with your argument is this...just because this guy has his wife and kid in the car, doesnt mean he is not a threat. I have seen numerous dashboard cam videos of officers being shot and killed by suspects who had their kids in the car. Traffic stops are the single most dangerous things officers do. Arresting someone is the next most dangerous things they do.
This suspect did pose a threat the officer. He failed to comply with lawful orders, he resisted arrest. Just because he didnt pull a gun or any other weapon doesnt mean he's not a threat. Just watching this video and listening to the arrogant ego of the driver ,and watching his body language, I can GUARANTEE that if the officer had chosen to go hands on, rather than taze the suspect, that the guy would have pulled away or continued to resist in one way or another, and the fight would have been on. Then the officer would have been rolling around with a non-compliant suspect along side highway.
Do the job of the trooper, and you might just understand why things went down the way they did. Walk a mile in his shoes before you are so quick to condemn.
You dont have to acknowledge police officers as supreme commanders of the universe, but there should be a level of respect when dealing with them. How hard is it to use common sense when dealing with the police. Be respectful, and respect will be given back.
Anyways....Im bored with the topic, on to the next.
TUFF
You arent going to piss me off....Just dont be too upset when nothing happens to this trooper. The trooper never violated the law, nor did he violate policy regarding taser use.
This kid didnt get tased just for being a jacka$$....he got tased because he resisted arrest and the officer didnt feel like getting into a fist fight with an already uncooperative suspect.
The problem with your argument is this...just because this guy has his wife and kid in the car, doesnt mean he is not a threat. I have seen numerous dashboard cam videos of officers being shot and killed by suspects who had their kids in the car. Traffic stops are the single most dangerous things officers do. Arresting someone is the next most dangerous things they do.
This suspect did pose a threat the officer. He failed to comply with lawful orders, he resisted arrest. Just because he didnt pull a gun or any other weapon doesnt mean he's not a threat. Just watching this video and listening to the arrogant ego of the driver ,and watching his body language, I can GUARANTEE that if the officer had chosen to go hands on, rather than taze the suspect, that the guy would have pulled away or continued to resist in one way or another, and the fight would have been on. Then the officer would have been rolling around with a non-compliant suspect along side highway.
Do the job of the trooper, and you might just understand why things went down the way they did. Walk a mile in his shoes before you are so quick to condemn.
You dont have to acknowledge police officers as supreme commanders of the universe, but there should be a level of respect when dealing with them. How hard is it to use common sense when dealing with the police. Be respectful, and respect will be given back.
Anyways....Im bored with the topic, on to the next.
TUFF
C
ClorideRUS
Guest
LAST EDITED ON Nov-25-07 AT 07:59PM (MST)[p]"How hard is it to use common sense when dealing with the police? Be respectful, and respect will be given back."
Tuff, fair enough. But by the same token, use a little common sense when dealing with an obviously non threatening situation. Tasers are lethal force. This kid did nothing to deserve that kind of response.
I've watched the video too many times. You?re not going to change my mind and I ain?t going to change yours.
Stay safe!!
RUS
Tuff, fair enough. But by the same token, use a little common sense when dealing with an obviously non threatening situation. Tasers are lethal force. This kid did nothing to deserve that kind of response.
I've watched the video too many times. You?re not going to change my mind and I ain?t going to change yours.
Stay safe!!
RUS
B
buglinbull2
Guest
"Tasers are a lethal force" . Give me a break. Both of my brother inlaws are in law enforcement and both have taken a full ride with the taser. If it were lethal force, they would both be dead. This idiot was not cooperating and he got what he deserved. Luckily he was in Utah. In Wyoming they have no tasers and they would have knocked him over the head with a baton. Tasers are lethal to what, 1 in 100,000. Of course it's that one person the media reports.
E
EdleBrock
Guest
Dumb and Dumber. The driver was dumb, the officer was dumber...
The officer never informed the driver that he was under arrest. You can see by the way the officer walked back to his car that he was not threatened by the driver, had his back to him all the way. As soon as he put his book down he drew his taser. His sense of inflatied authority is evident in his greeting to the second officer "took a ride with the tazer".
BTW, does anyone else think the officer looks like one of the Reno 911 cops ?
The officer never informed the driver that he was under arrest. You can see by the way the officer walked back to his car that he was not threatened by the driver, had his back to him all the way. As soon as he put his book down he drew his taser. His sense of inflatied authority is evident in his greeting to the second officer "took a ride with the tazer".
BTW, does anyone else think the officer looks like one of the Reno 911 cops ?
