Vortex HD Binos...

[coolspringoutfitters]

Did you guys that went to the Hunt Expo check out the new Vortex HD binos? Just wondering what you thought. I saw them for the first time Wednesday morning with 3/4 of the lights out in the Salt Palace and I was VERY impressed... I compared the Viper HD's to last years Vipers and it looks to my eyes that there is a big difference. And for $50 more, it seems like they are a great deal... Before I get railed on for spam, yes I am a dealer, but I wanted to know what others thought of them...


CSO

It's all about the good times...

 

[SteveC]

We,ve got a big winter event here Feb 18-20. There is a Vortex/Swarovski dealer that will be there. When I talked to him last week, he was pretty certain he would have the HD stuff by then. Vortex told me today they only have a very few HD stuff and were not sure any could be to dealers before the end of the month. I called the local dealer again and he is not hopeful he'll have any. I was kind of looking forward to the new Swarovision EL, the SLC HD and the Razor HD all in the same booth. He'll have the first two but not the last. So if there were any at the Hunt Expo, I'd like to hear about them too.

It looks like the big storms back east have really SNAFU'd shipments on Vortex's end.

 

[AWHOLELOTTABULL]

It's obvious that I am extremely Pro Vortex but damn! Nobody will be able to keep up with the Viper HD's. A $600 pair of HD 10x42's with an unconditional lifetime warranty? Tell me who's gonna beat that.


It's always an adventure!!!

 

[Timberbuck]

http://www.bushnell.com/products/binoculars/elite/

This and for around $100 less.
May not beat the Vortex but should match it.

 

[AWHOLELOTTABULL]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-13-11 AT 04:04AM (MST)[p]Ever try to get a pair of Bushnells fixed? Again, hands down and especially over a pair of Bushnells! Besides the Elite are NOT HD.

It's always an adventure!!!

 

[SteveC]

I agree Bushnell customer service and warranty is in the tank. I just had them take my money for objective and ocular covers to replace those I lost from one of their spotters. Now they tell me they don't stock the part and they said "what money?". So I go to the bank tomorrow so I can send them the confirmation of the card charge.

Just what do you think HD means anyway? I'm just curious. Vortex will tell you nothing beyond their website stuff. As far as I can see it is just marketers buzz, but maybe they told you something meaningful. Not that the "HD" will not be good glass, I fully expect that. My wish is to get my hands on a Razor "HD". You seem to place a whole lot of faith in "HD". Especially since the original Vipers had "high density" glass anyway. They just called it XD glass.

Anyway, maybe I can see some of it for myself this coming weekend.

 

[Foreman4x4]

>Just what do you think HD
>means anyway? I'm just
>curious. Vortex will tell
>you nothing beyond their website
>stuff. As far as
>I can see it is
>just marketers buzz, but maybe
>they told you something meaningful.
> Not that the "HD"
>will not be good glass,
>I fully expect that.
>My wish is to get
>my hands on a Razor
>"HD". You seem to
>place a whole lot of
>faith in "HD". Especially
>since the original Vipers had
>"high density" glass anyway. They
>just called it XD glass.
>
>
>Anyway, maybe I can see some
>of it for myself this
>coming weekend.


+1!

That's what I can't figure out. Vortex already claimed the Vipers, Razors, and Kaibab's had "XD" glass, so what's all the hoopla about, other than marketing hype?

 

[Timberbuck]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-13-11 AT 09:12PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Feb-13-11 AT 09:11?PM (MST)

LAST EDITED ON Feb-13-11 AT 09:03?PM (MST)

So what is HD in your opinion?

The Elite now has ED glass, it also has diaelectric prism coatings (xtr) its as HD as anything else out there that is claming "HD". The older Elite(the one with the split bridge housing) completely smoked the previous versions of the razor and viper in several tests (and to my eyes).

The term HD means nothing when it comes to binos and spotters anyway, its a term to be used for television and the broadcasting industry. Its an invented catch phrase when describing optics. The term XD used by Vortex is not an industry standard for lenses either-just a description used by Vortex.

The change in the new vortex line is that they are now using ED lenses in the new binos. (extra low dispersion, aprochromatic, flourite-these are all higher grade glass used in objective lenses to reduce chromatic (color) abberartions and also improve to a lesser degree resolution).

Vortex has a pricing problem, there several other binos on the market with similar features and lower prices. Looks like vortex may be making the mistake that Bushnell did with their $1000 original Elite binocular. People tend to spend less than $500 or bypass the $600-1000 binos and pay a little more for the high end Nikon,Leica,Zeiss and Swarovski glass. I know I would. As an example-how many Pentax DCF ED binos do you see in hunters hands? This is a $1000 glass and can be had as low as $600 from some sources, excellent bino but slow seller.

Binos that will be the new Viper HD and Razor HD's competition at less cost.

The Zen Ray ED2
Theron Wapiti
Bushnell Elite ED
Promaster infinity ELX ED

 

[Timberbuck]

Here is a link to a birdforums.net discussion on the new HD Vortex binos.
http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=189814

Thought this might help.

 

[Fortis]

>It's obvious that I am extremely
>Pro Vortex but damn!
>Nobody will be able to
>keep up with the Viper
>HD's. A $600 pair
>of HD 10x42's with an
>unconditional lifetime warranty? Tell
>me who's gonna beat that.
>
>
>
>It's always an adventure!!!

The Leupold Gold Ring HD I bought for $599. The Razor HD @ $1200 is a tough sell in that price range. Like Timberbuck said....the Zen ED2, Theron, etc At $499 would make the Viper Hd a tough sell IMO.

 

[SteveC]

>LAST EDITED ON Feb-13-11
>AT 09:12?PM (MST)
>
>LAST EDITED ON Feb-13-11
>AT 09:11?PM (MST)
>
>LAST EDITED ON Feb-13-11
>AT 09:03?PM (MST)


>The change in the new vortex line is that they are now using ED lenses in the new binos. (extra low dispersion, aprochromatic, flourite-these are all higher grade glass used in objective lenses to reduce chromatic (color) abberartions and also improve to a lesser degree resolution).
>
>
>Vortex has a pricing problem, there are several other binos on the market with similar features and lower prices. Binos that will be the new >Viper HD and Razor HD's competition at less cost.
>
>The Zen Ray ED2
>Theron Wapiti
>Bushnell Elite ED
>Promaster infinity ELX ED


Vortex has ALWAYS used ED glass in its Vipers and Razors since they first introduced them. So by Vortex telling us the new ones use "High Density" means even less than the old market buzz of XD glass. Apochromatic (APO) is an objective lens design using two ED glass elements and another glass element in a triplet arrangement, it is not a glass type. It is a design to focus the red, blue, and green light waves at the same point, reducing color fringing (as stated). Further, apochromatic designs are not necessary with fluorite glass in the objective, as a doublet objective arrangement is all that is needed. Fluorite is way too expensive to meet the Vortex price points.

So, I THINK that HD is nothing more than Vortex marketing strategy. I THINK the already existing ED glass may get an upgrade. I THINK that there is likely to be some coating improvements. I THINK all of the "completely new design" stuff is applicable only to the Razor HD and is something the marketers will stretch for all they are worth.. The Viper was always a bit short to have a long enough focal length to really work with ED glass, so MAYBE the new Viper will be longer to correct this, or have some design tweaks internally to increase focal length.

I also THINK the new HD binoculars will be very good. I just wish they would cut the crap and tell us something about what is new and why it is good.

I agree with your market competitors. But I will withhold my opinion until I see Vortex HD samples for myself. I have three of the four you mention, so comparisons will be pretty easy.

 

[AndymanSavage]

>>It's obvious that I am extremely
>>Pro Vortex but damn!
>>Nobody will be able to
>>keep up with the Viper
>>HD's. A $600 pair
>>of HD 10x42's with an
>>unconditional lifetime warranty? Tell
>>me who's gonna beat that.
>>
>>
>>
>>It's always an adventure!!!
>
>The Leupold Gold Ring HD I
>bought for $599. The
>Razor HD @ $1200 is
>a tough sell in that
>price range. Like Timberbuck
>said....the Zen ED2, Theron, etc
>At $499 would make the
>Viper Hd a tough sell
>IMO.

The only problem with this is that the GR HD you bought was a clearance item at $599 (I bought a set too) because the new models are on the way and WILL NOT be close to that price. Apples to apples, the "old" razors that were made at the same time as you GR binos were blown out for $450 last year as well, so the true price comparison will be this year's models of both binos, and the GR may be higher.....


-----------------------------------------------
http://andymansavage.blogspot.com/

 

[AndymanSavage]

I looked through the Vipers and thought they were awesome. I also think that the naming convention for all binos is stupid. What's next? Imax 3D claims from vendors??

The glass was slightly (in my 5 minutes of testing....) improved from the last model and I love the ergonomics of the viper. I am not sure if I will upgrade right away from my current "non-HD vipers", and I actually have a pair of 15x50 vipers on the way as well. I have owned the cabelas euro, Alaskan guide, several vortex models, and the leupold GR HD. The Viper continues to be the bino I carry in the field.


-----------------------------------------------
http://andymansavage.blogspot.com/

 

[Fortis]

It doesn't make a crap what I paid for them. The point is for the $599 I spent, whether it be for the GR HD, Zen ED2, Theron, Meopta, etc that there is just as good of glass as Vortex for much less money. $1200 for a Vortex Razor HD...are you kidding? I bought a new Swaro SLCneu for less money.

 

[AndymanSavage]

Okay Napoleon, haha. I actually agree with you. I don't really like the razor for the price either and there are good deals out there. Hell, I just picked up a set of Brunton eterna 10x51 binos NIB for under $200 at a pawn shop and they are great. But the new viper HD is better than the GR HD(sold mine) and cheaper, so don't automatically count out vortex. That's all I am saying. I also usually buy used glass....


-----------------------------------------------
http://andymansavage.blogspot.com/

 

[Buckriser]

I hope the Viper HD's come in soon. Cant wait to seem em.

 

[AWHOLELOTTABULL]

hey Fortis, when something goes wrong with those swaro's let me know how it goes trying to get them fixed. IF they will fix them, you won't see them for at least a couple of months and you will at least pay the cost of shipping both ways, to and from the factory (Germany). A couple of years ago I paid $95 for the rupper on my spotter eye piece. It should have been covered under their so called "lifetime warranty". I know the HD is better than the ED glass. I have looked through them side by side. So all you "optics experts" can say all you want about coatings and apochromatic this and that. My eyes can't read the difference but they can sure see the difference when looking through them.



It's always an adventure!!!

 

[SteveC]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-19-11 AT 02:26PM (MST)[p]I'm at a large conference today and tomorrow, there is a Vortex dealer here. He has both original and new HD 10x42 Vipers. The Viper is the only HD aside from the Vulture and Kibab that he has. So if anybody has some specific HD vs original questions, post her and I'll try to answer as best I can. I can easily get both in hand.

The short impression is that if you are terribly worried that the original Viper is going to take a whipping from the new HD, you can largely just keep the original. The HD is better, but not better enough to stand out without both side by side. The principle practical difference is the edge sharpness in the HD is noticeably better, so the apparrent sweet spot seems bigger in the HD. It is also a brighter glass, but picking out detail, there seems little difference. I would call the difference apparrent rather than real, as the diffiernce is in color bias rather than resolutiuon. They both read the same scales at the same distance on a USAF chart.

 

[schmalts]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-19-11 AT 04:01PM (MST)[p]If anyone is interested in taking a look at the Theron Wapiti bins give me a PM and I can possibly arrange for you to look at them. They are well worth the look an for the price they are tough to beat.
In optics, a lot of the price is spent on marketing and advertising. Many of the binoculars are made in the same factories. Sometimes you CAN get more for less depending on what your looking for.

 

[Timberbuck]

Really? What have you compared side by side to the new Vortex HD?
They are not avaliable yet.

You are not making sense, The new(and old) Vortex Viper,Razor have ED glass!

 

[coolspringoutfitters]

Some of us have compared the new and old... we had both at the Hunt Expo in Salt Lake. There definitely is a difference in glass quality. As I stated before, there was a difference in lower light...

CSO

It's all about the good times...

 

[Fortis]

>hey Fortis, when something goes wrong
>with those swaro's let me
>know how it goes trying
>to get them fixed.
>IF they will fix them,
>you won't see them for
>at least a couple of
>months and you will at
>least pay the cost of
>shipping both ways, to and
>from the factory (Germany).
>A couple of years ago
>I paid $95 for the
>rupper on my spotter eye
>piece. It should have
>been covered under their so
>called "lifetime warranty". I
>know the HD is better
>than the ED glass.
>I have looked through them
>side by side. So
>all you "optics experts" can
>say all you want about
>coatings and apochromatic this and
>that. My eyes can't
>read the difference but they
>can sure see the difference
>when looking through them.
>
>
>
>It's always an adventure!!!

Hey dumbass. Swarovski sets the industry standard for customer service, period. Ask around. Also, they have their own repair facility here in the US. They are also made in Austria, not Germany, so they wouldn't go to Germany anyway. There are many different grades of ED/HD glass, and the terms can be used interchangeably, meaning the same thing. Get a clue before you say something so stupid.