Validate my elk preference point thinking

P

pistolpete

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So I was "in" the first year WY issued PPs for elk and 3 years ago was successful drawing a unit 58 tag. I put back in the next year and subsequent years so now i have 3 PPs built up again, but have started looking at my odds in units I was interested in like 1, 7, or 58 again and to me it is looking like those are once in a lifetime tags almost given how many people ahead of me have max points or max minus anything up to 5 which would put them ahead of me. It looks like it will take such a long time to cycle through everyone with more PPs than me that I am wasting my money buying PPs each year. In 2014 I paid the special price and put GEN as my second choice and drew the GEN tag and had a pretty decent archery hunt seeing bulls every day and missing one. I hate the idea of spending Special money every year or even every other year for a general tag while continuing to build PPs that may not ever do me much good. I think I would be happy drawing a GEN tag every other year at the non-special price as it looks like I would have a pretty good chance of, because I found a pretty good area to hunt with the GEN tag this last year. I just don't want to waste those 3 PPs i have built up now. So I guess my questions are these:
1. Is my thinking on PPs above correct, that I am years away if ever from drawing a blue chip unit tag again where Max or Max-1 is needed?
2. Are there some units I am just not seeing where 3-4 PPs will give me a good chance of drawing and be able to do a DIY hunt? Prefer Archery but will hunt either or both.
3. Is Eastmans's MRS a good tool for finding those units, I have never used it, but thinking of subscribing.

Thanks in advance for any guidance.
 
I feel you are correct on the top units but I also have 3 points after using them on a good quality unit not a top unit. I will put in for a good unit I can draw probably next year. I don't have advice on good units you can draw with 3 points but some guys with more knowledge than me do and they may respond. Good luck enjoy a good hunt and don't hoard points for a hunt you may have in years if everything goes well.
 
Since WY started the PP later than most states, initially people would draw some of the better units without a bundle of points, but obviously not everyone. As more people build points, it will take more points each year (point creep) to draw the same unit especially for the top quality units. It won't take quite as long as you think as not every person ahead of you will hold out. ie, in Colorado, you can look at stats and find lots of examples of people using a lot of points for units that require minimal points for various reasons. So I think it really depends on how old you are and how bad you really wanna hunt those units. I missed getting a PP the first year and it has taken me several extra years to be in the running and if I ever draw again (after this year) it will likely be twice as long to wait which I probably can't do as I'll just be too old. I think Eastmans, Huntin Fool, etc. are all sources to easily see what units are top end units but if you have time, you can also get this from reading thru the stats to determine which ones are the "top quality" hunts.
 
In just the nine years that NRs have had the PP system in Wyoming it's very obvious that it will be the same thing that has happened out in CO and other states to draw a top unit. If you look at the stats the G&F posts showing the number of people that have a certain number of PPs for each animal, IMHO it's easy to see that with the low tag numbers in a lot of the top units a guy will need 15 or more if he's at the max PPs right now to even have a chance at those top units. Add in the possibility that in the future tags may be cut to a lower ratio for NRs than they presently are allocated and the situation just gets that much worse. I just can't see building a ton of PPs in hopes of having one hunt that I might not draw before I die than hunting in general areas or LQ units that require just a few PPs and hunting every year somewhere. If people would just drop this "I have to get a big one" mentality and just hunt to have fun, IMHO things would be a lot better all the way around!
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-09-15 AT 09:43AM (MST)[p]Yes there are areas where you can have a good hunt with 2-5 points. Yes you'll probably never draw another top-tier unit...it is becoming a once in a lifetime unless you pick up one of the few random tags in the drawing. Yes Eastmans or Hunting Fool is a good starting point for specific unit information as is this site as well...check out the article section.
 
I think you are correct that some of these units are going to be once in a lifetime. Units like 1, 30, 31, 32, 58, and 59 still take maximum points with some of them being low success even with max points.

Some other units like 7, 11, 35, 38, and 45 you may be able to draw in this lifetime since they no longer take maximum points. They still experience point creep but it isn't a full point each year.
 
I'm on my second go around with Elk pts, and this will be my last. I just want to hunt as often as I can and not be a one tag wonder.
 
Actually this conversation is very interesting to me as a resident for two reasons: first, I get the impression that many NR think that without PP they would be drawing the hard to get tags.

Second, I would love to read this post if it was a 100% random draw.
 
Well I'm 15 years with no elk tag in the Random draws in Id. Or I could hunt the gen WY elk about every other year with reg $.
 
jm77 - As a NR, statistically there is no way a person could draw hard to get tags except for just luck of the draw. Just too many guys want to hunt the better trophy units which is quite understandable. I never got into the PP system in CO early enough to ever draw a top end unit, thus I decided to start applying in other states where I'd at least have a chance someday. I don't think there is any perfect system. I personally like to have some form of PP's as it will payoff for those that are patient and young enough! I quit applying for NM which is a random draw, when they cut the number of NR diy tags to 6% as it just made the system too costly relative to the possibility to draw IMO. Unfortunately due to point creep in any system, it may deter a lot of younger hunters from putting in unless they are just starting out as many states now are truly a once-in-a-lifetime for the top trophy units. Guess we all have to be thankful that we can just hunt somewhere and we have to decide whether we want to play the game or not.
 
>Second, I would love to read
>this post if it was
>a 100% random draw.

I think that thread would go something like "Wyo needs to get a PP system. I have been applying for 15 years for unit 58 and I have not drawn yet. I do not have luck. (As if there was a genetic predisposition to luck) My neighbor does, he has been putting in for gen tags and he seems to draw every other year. This is not fair and something needs to be done."

Just a hunch but I bet that was the discussion about 10 years ago.
 
>
>>Second, I would love to read
>>this post if it was
>>a 100% random draw.
>
>I think that thread would go
>something like "Wyo needs to
>get a PP system.
>I have been applying for
>15 years for unit 58
>and I have not drawn
>yet. I do not
>have luck. (As if there
>was a genetic predisposition to
>luck) My neighbor does,
>he has been putting in
>for gen tags and he
>seems to draw every other
>year. This is not
>fair and something needs to
>be done."
>
>Just a hunch but I bet
>that was the discussion about
>10 years ago.

+2 good laugh on that mulecreek!
 
Thanks everyone for the confirmation of what I was thinking. I'm in my early 40's so hopefully have many elk hunting years ahead of me, but my hunt this last fall in the GEN unit changed my thinking on needing a hard to draw LQ unit tag, plus i got a nice elk the year I did draw 58. More than anything I want meat in the freezer and a reason to spend a week or two wearing out boots in WY so I'll be happy with a GEN tag every other year, just don't want to burn my 3 PPs on one this year, although there aren't many choices for units where 3-4 PPs will give you a good chance of being drawn.
One final question for someone who might be better at reading the draw odds than I am. Last year I put in for the Special NR PP draw with 58 as my first choice and GEN as my second, and like I said, drew the GEN tag. Looking at the 2014 draw odds, it doesn't look like the GEN tag as second choice in the Special NR PP drawing was the sure thing I thought it was (maybe I got lucky), so maybe wouldn't be a sure thing this year either? Or am I reading the report wrong?
Thanks!
 
Wapiti - That wasn't the case last year, and probably never will be again. Draw odds have been dropping even in the special Gen draw for several years, and it takes significant luck to draw in the second choice round.
Those days are gone....
Bill
 
>>
>>>Second, I would love to read
>>>this post if it was
>>>a 100% random draw.
>>
>>I think that thread would go
>>something like "Wyo needs to
>>get a PP system.
>>I have been applying for
>>15 years for unit 58
>>and I have not drawn
>>yet. I do not
>>have luck. (As if there
>>was a genetic predisposition to
>>luck) My neighbor does,
>>he has been putting in
>>for gen tags and he
>>seems to draw every other
>>year. This is not
>>fair and something needs to
>>be done."
>>
>>Just a hunch but I bet
>>that was the discussion about
>>10 years ago.
>
>+2 good laugh on that mulecreek!
>

Actually if you go back and look a lot of the NR hunters were against the PP system in WY! And were very out spoken about it! I was one of those who wrote emails, made phone calls etc. I actually corned old Harry llicks at the drifter and chewed his ass for a bit about the proposal and the idea of moving residents to all PP as well,

Sorry but the random draw was great, I knew my odds and made my choices. I never got a great tag in WY but I atleast had the same chance as everyone else every year! If I was itching to hunt I drew an easy to get tag, if I did not have to hunt I put in for a top tag!

The PP was put in mainly for outfitters and was pushed by the outfitters!
 
>Wapiti - That wasn't the case
>last year, and probably never
>will be again. Draw odds
>have been dropping even in
>the special Gen draw for
>several years, and it takes
>significant luck to draw in
>the second choice round.
>Those days are gone....
>Bill


WB is correct and it will probably be for another year or two. The G&F fills those tags to come up to the minimum7250 NR licenses the statute requires and that isn't shown in the stats. WB knows as much about the Wyoming draw as the people working in the draw section!
 
The WY general tag is the least valued tag of any tag in the west for elk. There is incredible elk hunting on the general tag. Especially if you have the money for a guided hunt or are an archery hunter. Once I use my max pts it will be general tags only for then on for me.

"Go hunt for meat at Walmart."
 

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