Utah Youth Hunter Legislation Change Proposal

D

downwindnclosingin

Guest
5-24-11
Greetings,
I would like to address a Utah Legislation change and need some people of influence in the political system to look over the following. In speaking with many hunters in the Central Utah area there is an overwhelming support for this legislation change.

The Arizona Game and Fish Division allow the holder of a limited entry big game tag to transfer the tag to their minor child between the ages of 10-17.
The Arizona legislation is below:

R12-4-121. Big Game Permit or Tag Transfer

A. A parent or guardian to whom a big game hunt permit-tag is issued may transfer the unused permit or tag to the parent's or guardian's minor child, if:

1. The minor child is from 10 to 17 years old on the date of transfer,

2. The minor child has a valid hunting license on the date of transfer, and

3. A minor child less than 14 years old satisfactorily completes a Department-approved hunter education course by the beginning date of the hunt.

B. A parent or guardian may obtain a transfer, in person, at any Department office. To obtain a transfer, a parent or guardian shall provide the following:

1. Proof of ownership of the big game permit or tag to be transferred;

2. The minor's valid hunting license; and

3. The unused big game permit or tag.

C. An individual to whom a hunt permit-tag is issued or the individual's legal representative may donate the unused tag to a non-profit organization if:

1. The organization is exempt from federal taxation under Section 501(c) of the Internal Revenue Code;

2. The organization provides opportunities and experiences to children with life-threatening medical conditions; and

3. The individual or legal representative that donates the tag provides the organization with some type of statement that indicates that the tag is voluntarily donated to that organization.

D. A non-profit organization that receives a hunt permit-tag under subsection (C) may obtain a transfer by contacting any Department office. To obtain a transfer, an organization shall:

1. Provide proof of donation of the big game permit-tag to be transferred;

2. Provide the unused big game permit or tag;

3. Provide proof of the minor child's valid hunting license; and

4. Transfer the tag to a minor child who meets the following criteria:

a. Has a life-threatening medical condition;

b. Is 10 to 17 years old by the date of the transfer;

c. Has a valid hunting license; and

d. If is less than 14 years old, satisfactorily completes a Department-approved hunter education course before the beginning date of the hunt.

E. The Department shall issue a transfer permit or tag in the name of the minor child if it is lawfully submitted according to this Section

Utah Proposal:
In accordance with Utah Law and the DNR we would need the ages to be between 12-17 years of age for General Season Big Game, Antlerless Big Game, Black Bear and Cougar.

In accordance with Utah Law and the Utah DNR we would need the ages to be between 14-17 for Limited Entry Big Game and Once In A Lifetime Big Game.

Public Action:
I believe in helping our youth create a love for hunting and the outdoors. I would ask any Utah resident hunters in support of this type of a legislation change to contact your local Utah DNR offices, Utah DNR Regional Supervisors, Utah Wildlife Board Members, Local State Representatives, Local County and District Attorneys, Utah DNR RAC Representatives and anybody I have missed that could help pass this bill.

You can copy paste the above information into emails or letters to make it easier to convey to your local representatives. I think if the support is strong enough I would hope the change could be put into effect by the 2012 hunting season.

Please Post below if you would be in support of this change.

Thank you for your consideration.
Sincerely,
Shane Scott
Sevier County, Utah
 
seems like a good way to make it harder to draw a le tag to me... Now every mom that doesnt hunt will be putting in to give her kid twice the chance at a tag..

4b1db2ac644136c4.jpg
 
LAST EDITED ON May-24-11 AT 06:47PM (MST)[p]dont like it

it also sounds like a way for any one organization to abuse the system let alone grandma and grandma or non hunting brothers and sisters..

avatar_2528.jpg
 
Swbuckmaster. Grandma and grandpa can't give their tag to a grandchild under the arizona law. It only applies to parents donating the tag to their children.
 
Throw me in for a "no". I agree it will create a loophole for non-hunting moms to build points for the kiddies. I know this is not uncommon in AZ.
 
I think this would be a great opportunity to get some youth interested in hunting. I can't imagine there being a huge influx in people going for these tags for their kids. I am sure there will be some but it would be worth it to be able to give my kids a chance at a tag they may not otherwise ever get. Remember the point creep? Its not like the boogie man... its really there. I say we go for it.
 
Sorry 'Koldtrailin'........my post comes across as kinda 'ash-hole-ish ...re-reading it this morning!

Certainly ANY ressy tag would be great to have.....

If it had some type of mandatory medical issue with documented doctors letter type deal I would be more in favor for it....

Robb
 
i say no.every mom in the state will be puting in .more money for dwr. less chance for you and me to draw.it takes years now...add 30.000 moms. what do you get.....
 
LAST EDITED ON May-25-11 AT 07:50AM (MST)[p]I agree with elkun. If Utah adopted this proposed change, suddenly all of our wives (who otherwise do not hunt) would be applying for limited entry and once-in-a-lifetime tags. This will further plug up an already overloaded system.

I am all for getting our youth involved in hunting but I disagree with the idea that we need to create special privileges and move them to the front of the line. There were not any youth privileges when I was a kid but my father took me out with him on his hunts. When I turned 14, I got a general deer tag and shot a small 2-point on a general unit and I was hooked for life.

I think it is a mistake to create special privilges for youth. It leads to unrealistic expectations and creates a sense of entitlement. The best thing we can do is take a kid hunting with us on our hunts (whether they be once-in-a-lifetime, limited entry or a plain old general hunt) and then help integrate them into the system when they are of age.

There is no need to revamp the system.

Hawkeye

Browning A-Bolt 300 Win Mag
Winchester Apex .50 Cal
Mathews Drenalin LD
 
I agree- it will add every non-hunting mother (or father) to the point creep problem we already suffer from...

It also suports the idea that Limited Entry hunting is the ONLY way to really hunt... I despise this thinking... A ten year old has to shoot a 190" buck at the Henry's to love hunting..?? Disgusting...

The amount of abuse that will take place is another CON I can't get around...

I can't see any way that you could curb the abuse, not affect the point crawl, and transfer tags... I just don't think I can support it...


"Therefore, wo be unto him that is at ease in Zion!" 2 Ne. 28: 24
 
LAST EDITED ON May-25-11 AT 10:26AM (MST)[p]I've been reading this thread even though I live in the Midwest and initially thought it would be a good idea. However, after reading the two previous posts that I share similar views with regarding entitlement, etc., I think I would have to vote no. The other reasons (point creep, etc.) also make sense. Just take the kid hunting and IMHO the kid doesn't need to have a gun in his hand or shoot a record book buck/bull to have a good time and keep coming back for more until he/she is old enough for regular licenses.
 
+1 to TG

There are plenty of opportunities for the kids to hunt. My kids are raised now and they hunted the "every-other-year" general deer season until they had enough points to begin drawing great tags (or hunt other States)

The kids don't need to feel "entitled" as Mr. Hawkeye said.

The outdoor experience awaits. They don't need a LE tag to enjoy nature.

Zeke
 
To all those concerned about the non hunting mothers jumping into the mix:

What if there is a stipulation that the person transferring the tag must have drawn out with 10 bonus points (limited entry) or more in order to donate the tag to their child.

That raises the stakes a little. Then a person throwing mom into the mix will have to plan on $45-??? each year for 10 plus years to make it happen.

Another possibility might be to make the tag transfer fee $500. Then there might be a few people that pass on trying. However, the ones that want to can do it legally. Most people wont consider it with such a high fee is my guess.

It seems to me unless you have a large number of children you will only have a 6 year window, then the child is 18 and theres no chance. The kids go from 12-18 in the blink of an eye it seems.

Interesting comments so far. Thanks for everybodys input.
Shane
 
Shane-

I appreciate your throughtful comments, but why try to fix something that is not broke? We all need to take responsibility for getting our children and other youth involved in hunting. There is ample opportunity to do that right now under the current system. In my opinion, the changes you are proposing are not necessary and could in fact be detrimental to what is already an overloaded system.

Keep up the good work.

Hawkeye

Browning A-Bolt 300 Win Mag
Winchester Apex .50 Cal
Mathews Drenalin LD
 
Bingo! It's already broken enough without throwing the monkey-wrench into the mix.
Zeke
 
Hawkeye,
I have drawn some good tags. I have taken some nice trophies. As much as I would like to say that taking a 2 point deer on the general hunt is similar to hunting the Paunsaugunt rifle deer hunt, it just isnt so.
I put in out of state and will be drawing some good tags there. My children are 12 and 14. They want to hunt.
Our quality deer management and general season spike elk hunting gives them opportunity to shoot a buck or elk each year.
In a few more years my kids will be grown and gone.
When I draw my limited entry tag, it is mine. If I choose to transfer it to my son so I can enjoy watching him harvest a great trophy I think I should be able to do that, legally. I am willing to pay $$$ to transfer the tag.
Many fathers and mothers I have talked to share the same opinion.
It is however nice to get views on how this is viewed by the opposition.
Change is difficult and always an uphill battle.
In 2009 a 12 year old was hunting near Kanab on the general season rifle deer hunt. He killed a 200 plus inch giant. As my brother and I drove by Muley Crazy the deer was in the back of a truck. We stopped and watched this young man proud as ever show off the giant. A deer much bigger than anything I had ever taken. When that kid gets to be 30 years old he will understand exactly what he achieved during that 2009 hunt. Thats good stuff. That made my whole trip.
I would like to see my kids get the same opportunity before they are out of the house.
 
A number of my friends shot large mule deer in the 1980s as teenagers. Not one of them still hunts today. Instilling a love of hunting does not come from holding big antlers. It comes from memories afield as a kid/teenager/adult.

What are we teaching our kids? A 2 point is less than a 4 point? I have seen 4 year old bucks which were 2 points and yearlings which were 4 points. These ideas are just another step to teaching kids that only blood on the hands and large antlers matter. Hunting is more than that. So I vote no.
 
LAST EDITED ON May-25-11 AT 02:19PM (MST)[p]I grew up in IN and started hunting small game in 1953 with my Dad when I was 6 years old. There wasn't even any deer hunting available back then and I didn't get into big game hunting until I moved up here to MI in 1962 and there was a huntable population of whitetails. I got an 8 point the first morning I deer hunted with Dad as a teenager in 1963, but it didn't take hunting deer-size critters to get or kept me hooked on the outdoors my entire life. Encouraging the mentality of needing to kill a B&C sized critter to keep ANYONE involved in the sport of hunting is incorrect IMO and actually is probably detrimental to a person's overall upbringing in the long run. IMHO there is way too much of this "instant gratification" thinking being fostered within the younger generations nowadays and I don't think it's helping our overall society one bit! This thread brings to mind a picture from the OYOA site run by BigFin that I saw this week of a member carrying his little boy in his MR backpack enjoying the outdoors to the fullest and, to me, that is the way to get and keep them active in our sport! Start them as young as possible and foster the attitude that just being out there is where it's at and squeezing the trigger on anything is just the icing on the cake. That is the mentality I've had my entire life and if I don't kill a B&C something in my lifetime it's still been a pretty good ride! As a final comment, just look at the number of guys on this website that are helping each other on hunts when one doesn't even have a tag. I'm having as much fun the last few years helping my WY buddy do hunts for moose and elk in several states than if they were my tags and I feel that type of atttiude was instilled in me by my Dad when I was one of those pack-size pints of a kid 60 years ago!
 
I agree there is to much instant gratification with the youth today, but to me that is not what this is about. To me, I would like to have the option of transfering my tag to my kids if i wanted. This would be as much for me as it would be for my kids. By the time my kids draw I may not be able to enjoy it with them. Also its a different experience hunting a limited entry hunt than it is huntin the pumpkin patch. A fee could do alot to curve the extra people putting in for their kids.
 
I think that there are plenty of opportunities already for the youth to have a good experience to get hooked on hunting. Truth be told the only way the youth are going to stick with it is up to us as parents. We need to get out there with them and make sure that they have a good time. I have stuck to hunting not because I have killed a big buck/bull it's because I have had all kinds of experiences/memories shooting rabbits/ground squires/tweedy birds/ ect??
If getting a LE tag is what you are after for your kids may I suggest that you start collecting points now. That way when they are old enough to start applying you already have a few points built up that you can split with them giving them a better chance at drawing a tag. I currently have 11 LE deer points and will have 13 by the time my oldest boy can start applying for LE tags. If I decide to apply with him he would go in with 6-7 bounce points the first year he applies. A little planning now and you can accomplish nearly the same thing that you are asking about. I could not support being able to transfer tags for the reasons that have already been stated.

400bull
 

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