Utah Private Land Hunting Season Variances?

[wannabe]

First time poster. I hope I am in the right place. If not, I am sorry.

Let's say I am a private landowner and the land is in the middle of a general unit. I know I can give permission to a public tag holder to hunt. The question is this: Can I let an Any Legal Weapon general tag holder on to hunt on dates different than the dates in the regulations and on the tag? Specifically, could I let an Any Legal Weapon general tag holder use his rifle to shoot an elk in let's say August (now), even though his hunt dates are Oct 9th thru Oct 21st?

Slightly different question: Private land within boundaries of Limited Entry unit instead of general area.

Let's say I am a private landowner and the land is in the middle of a limited entry unit. I know I can give permission to a limited entry tag holder to hunt. The question is this: Can I let an Any Legal Weapon limited entry tag holder on to hunt on dates different than the dates in the regulations and on the tag? Specifically, could I let an Any Legal Weapon limited entry tag holder use his rifle to shoot an elk in let's say August (now), even though his hunt dates are Sep 18th thru Sep 26th?

For both questions, let's say that my private land is not part of a CWMU.

Thanks for your answers and opinions.

 

[fishfearme]

The way I understand it, and I could be wrong, a CWMU is he only way to allow hunters to hunt your land at times other than the regular seasons in place for the area and species.

 

[wannabe]

>The way I understand it, and
>I could be wrong, a
>CWMU is he only way
>to allow hunters to hunt
>your land at times other
>than the regular seasons in
>place for the area and
>species.


That's the way I understand it, too. This is from the 2010 Guide, pg 17, right hand side:

"A limited entry bull elk permit allows a person, using the prescribed legal weapon, to take one bull elk within the area and season specified on the permit, except elk cooperative wildlife management units located within a limited entry unit."

It would seem unfair to archery hunters on public land adjacent to private land if somebody on the private land is firing his rifle at a bull elk at the same time the archery hunter is trying to fill his tag.

 

[wannabe]

Couple of follow-ups:

1) Other than depredation tabs, what kind of tags can private landowners get (for resale) if they are not CWMU? Would it be the discretion of the landowner as to weapon and season, or would weapon/season be predetermined?

sorta related to that

2) If you were an archery hunter hunting public ground adjacent to private (not CWMU) land and you KNEW there were BULL elk being taken with rifles on that private ground, what would you do?

 

[hossblur]

SERIOUSLY!!!! You can only hunt extended dates if the state gets a cut of the money, I mean if it is beneficial to wildlife!!

Here is the question I would like answered. If mule deer are in decline throughout the west, to the point that we are discussing and even closing units, are there magic forcefields around CWMU's that prevents this decline on a CWMU? While cutting seasons or shutting down units is the remedy for this why is that not true on a CWMU? If a CWMU is the magical answer to the decline of the mule deer, wouldn't the logical answer be to call all the the land in Utah a CWMU and PRESTO!!! mule deer numbers would increase AND we could all hunt 4 straight months!!!???

 

[llamapacker]

Wannabee:

Not sure if you are serious. Private land (Outside of a CWMU) does not confer any special hunting season dates or privledges to a tag holder. There are no tags a land owner can resell to the general public (clients).

Formation of a CWMU turns all of this on its ear, but just owning some private land only allow the owner to grant or deny permission for access during set seasons.

Bill

 

[REDDOG]

hossblur, wtf are you talking about? bitching because you have a chance to hunt private property, that otherwise would be leased by outfitters?

 

[400bullelk]

If you took the management of the land away from the government, and placed it in the hands of someone that really cared about the herds, you could hunt for 60 days. But that would mean that you could only hunt about every 8-10 years. But you would have quality and numbers.

 

[Zeke]

To answer the first questions directly: No and hell No. There are no special privilages with private land except the ability to allow people on or keep them out. (except on cwmu units of course)

To answer another question. Hell yes, turn them in if they are rife hunting private land during an archery season. They are breaking the law!

Zeke

 

[wannabe]

LAST EDITED ON Aug-30-10 AT 12:44PM (MST)[p]>To answer the first questions directly:
>No and hell No. There
>are no special privilages with
>private land except the ability
>to allow people on or
>keep them out. (except on
>cwmu units of course)
>
>To answer another question. Hell yes,
>turn them in if they
>are rife hunting private land
>during an archery season. They
>are breaking the law!
>
>Zeke

Zeke (and llamapacker)

Thanks for your responses. We will be taking the next step to report that this is indeed going on right now. Before doing so, I just wanted to query the collective braintrust of this forum. I will be calling a few people at the Division to find out the proper way to go about this. If my attorney says that it is not libelous or defamatory, I will report back here.

 

[AWHOLELOTTABULL]

The only way private LO's have the extended dates is if they are involved in the CWMU program. Otherwise they are confined to the same dates as everybody else. They may get an LO tag for some reason but if the public doesn't get any tags in the draw (which is the reward for the extended dates) then they have to hunt the seasons that the general public does.

hossblur - I personally know 2 of the CWMU's that manage for big deer. One of those allows the public to hunt the draw tags but eats the tags that they purchase from the DWR because they want to get a more healthier herd. The other sells a coupld of trophy tags and then uses a couple as cull tags to get rid of bad genetics. Just trying to do their part for conservation. But I understand your point. I'm still going to try and convert you over to the non LO hater club though.


It's always an adventure!!!

 

[Apexmtnman]

Reddog

Who says its all private property? Many CWMU's also post public land, and its not all landlocked, some of it is very accessable.

 

[wannabe]

Reported, partially investigated, non-resident hunters taking a couple of cows with landowner tags. Investigation continues.

Kind of a bummer to be hunting archery elk and have others nearby shooting them with rifles.

 

[AWHOLELOTTABULL]

Unless it's on a CWMU, it's illegal. Even then, the CWMU dates don't start until September 1. Not sure whats going on there but I would bet someones going to get into trouble on this one.

It's always an adventure!!!

 

[huntinfanatic]

wannabe, the gun shots you've been hearing could very possibly be hunters who have landowner mitigation cow elk tags. landowner mitigation cow tags are an any weapon hunt and the landowner chooses the hunt dates. many landowners choose late august and early september. I had one of these tags last year and my hunt dates were 8/24-10/2. I was hunting with my bow and my friend was using his rifle.

 

[AWHOLELOTTABULL]

Good info hunt. I had no idea they had those kind of tags. All I have ever been involved with are CWMU so this is the first time I have ever heard that term. Thanks for posting.


It's always an adventure!!!

 

[hossblur]

>The only way private LO's have
>the extended dates is if
>they are involved in the
>CWMU program. Otherwise they
>are confined to the same
>dates as everybody else.
>They may get an LO
>tag for some reason but
>if the public doesn't get
>any tags in the draw
>(which is the reward for
>the extended dates) then they
>have to hunt the seasons
>that the general public does.
>
>
>hossblur - I personally know 2
>of the CWMU's that manage
>for big deer. One
>of those allows the public
>to hunt the draw tags
>but eats the tags that
>they purchase from the DWR
>because they want to get
>a more healthier herd.
>The other sells a coupld
>of trophy tags and then
>uses a couple as cull
>tags to get rid of
>bad genetics. Just trying
>to do their part for
>conservation. But I understand
>your point. I'm still
>going to try and convert
>you over to the non
>LO hater club though.
>
>
>It's always an adventure!!!

I like this defense. They are improving the genetics of the herd so they deserve extended seasons. Who are they improving the genetics for? Themselves? So basically they get "paid" (bookable hunting days) to improve their herd so they can charge more? Good scheme, get paid twice and sell it as improving things for the general public, of whom almost none will ever know the difference.

 

[hossblur]

>hossblur, wtf are you talking about?
>bitching because you have a
>chance to hunt private property,
>that otherwise would be leased
>by outfitters?


no, bitching that for some there are 5 day seasons, for others there are 60 day seasons(yeah I know, most have week long hunts, but for the price you can hunt all 60). Sure wished I could hunt during the rut, oh yeah I can if I can fork out the cash. Perhaps if I had enough cash I could name my season and unit, wait I can(governors tag), SFW's Antelope Island hunt. Funny how the deer herd magically is improved if you put enough zeros on the check. Guess that unexplainable decline of the mule deer throughout the west is only mule deer under 200pts, those over are thriving? Who knew?

 

[hossblur]

>If you took the management of
>the land away from the
>government, and placed it in
>the hands of someone that
>really cared about the herds,
>you could hunt for 60
>days. But that would
>mean that you could only
>hunt about every 8-10 years.
> But you would have
>quality and numbers.


Guess I missed it that the most coveted tag in the west is the henerys, when did that go private? Pauns too? Arizona strip? let me play devils advocate, if we hadn't of created a buisness by giving our wildlife to ranchers along with unbelievably long seasons to sell them, how many of those ranchers would have been forced to sell that land as ranching became less profitable leaving at least some of that land available to be purchased by the state, RMEF, MDF, or even satan himself(SFW)? CWMUs are one of the only buisnesses I can think of where your product was given to you (if you buy acreage today all the othe critters that cross it are yours and you paid nothing for them), you get special rules and regs, and if you give one product away you can then sell the rest for whatever you want, and all the while your improving your product(genetics) you can tell the public your doing it for them, yet they will never see it. Great buisness!

 

[400bullelk]

LAST EDITED ON Aug-31-10 AT 06:45AM (MST)[p]>>If you took the management of
>>the land away from the
>>government, and placed it in
>>the hands of someone that
>>really cared about the herds,
>>you could hunt for 60
>>days. But that would
>>mean that you could only
>>hunt about every 8-10 years.
>> But you would have
>>quality and numbers.
>
>
>Guess I missed it that the
>most coveted tag in the
>west is the henerys, when
>did that go private?
>Pauns too? Arizona strip?
> let me play devils
>advocate, if we hadn't of
>created a buisness by giving
>our wildlife to ranchers along
>with unbelievably long seasons to
>sell them, how many of
>those ranchers would have been
>forced to sell that land
>as ranching became less profitable
>leaving at least some of
>that land available to be
>purchased by the state, RMEF,
>MDF, or even satan himself(SFW)?
> CWMUs are one of
>the only buisnesses I can
>think of where your product
>was given to you (if
>you buy acreage today all
>the othe critters that cross
>it are yours and you
>paid nothing for them), you
>get special rules and regs,
>and if you give one
>product away you can then
>sell the rest for whatever
>you want, and all the
>while your improving your product(genetics)
>you can tell the public
>your doing it for them,
>yet they will never see
>it. Great buisness!


Henry's, Paunsaugunt, the Strip????? You are comparing these isolated units, that if you start applying for now, you will probably never draw the tag, to CWMU's??? You could probably hunt Deseret twice before you ever draw any of those tags. Take away the CWMU's, thats not going to do away with outfitters, they will hunt the 5 day season, and triple the cost of their hunts, and not one public hunter will get on the property. There are great CMWU's that you can draw in 3-6 years, on some of the best country in the state. CWMU's have helped put Utah on the map for hunting, and you can complain about that as well, but it is bringing money into the state, and if you haven't heard about the economy, we as a community need it. I am sick about people complaining about not being able to afford tags, that is why the system is set up with draw tags. It doesn't matter what you do, or where you go, money is going to have some sort of role. Its a win for the public, and for the game animals. And you spell business, with the "i" after the "s".

 

[wannabe]

Yes, that is what it is sounding like now. The investigating officer knows this landowner and that he has those kinds of tags. He is continuing his investigation today and will update me as he gathers more info.

Just curious, if you don't mind my asking, which area were you hunting and how much did you pay for the mitigation tag?

 

[wannabe]

Its a mixed bag, but it seems to me that if ranchers are "forced" for whatever reason to sell their lands, there may be much less motivation to keep the lands held together (not broken up into a bunch of smaller sections).

I personally know of a guy who has made a lot of money in New Mexico and Southern Colorado by buying larger ranches and developing them and sectioning them off to sell as much smaller parcels. No more hunting on those ranches - forever.

Thanks for the comments on the original thread topic, too.

 

[huntinfanatic]

i was hunting a ranch on the zion unit(utah). i paid $300 for the tag and trespass fee which also allowed me to hunt deer as well.