Utah- One Big CWMU

[BrowningRage]

So many of us here in Utah complain regularly about the wildlife management, usually complaining about point creep and auction tags. But I figured it out. I think.

Utah is just One, Big, CWMU, run by the DWR:

A CWMU is a piece of property that is both private and public, just like Utah.

A CWMU is allotted a certain number of permits to kill a public resource, just like Utah.

A CWMU allows publicly drawn tags as well as privately purchased tags to kill a public resource, just like Utah.

A CWMU allows some private tags to be given to their "friends" every year, just like Utah (conservation groups).

A CWMU often sells the private tags to the same rich people every year, just like Utah.

A CWMU allows the privately purchased tag-holders to hunt the best areas on the property, while public hunters often get "the rest", just like Utah (general season tags).

A CWMU benefits greatly from the proceeds of a state resource being harvested, just like Ut... er um, private conservation groups. (Settle down, I know Utah benefits too. Just a little razzin is all)

Any thoughts.?? Are these similarities a figment of my imagination? Do they have any correlation even..? I thought this might start a bit of a discussion... Sooo... Have at it.

"Therefore, wo be unto him that is at ease in Zion!" 2 Ne. 28: 24

 

[BillyBoB]

For those who see and understand the big picture in Utah, simply could not argue alot of your statements. It definitely is thinking outside the box. But seems pretty spot on.
Although there are more hunters than I thought, who know little about the CWMU program and the many units the state has.
I'm interested in reading the responses to this thread.




"Wildlife and its habitat cannot speak. So
we must and we will."
Theadore Roosevelt

 

[Tristate]

I think you're confused and it is evident from the very first sentence of your post. Point creep and auction tags aren't wildlife management.

 

[Runnoft]

You almost have it nailed! Now if Utah can just get ownership of those public federal lands. It will lease those acres to the well connected to create more CWMU's. I'm sure there's a conservation group out there that will know how to get the bid under market value!

 

[tailchasers]

Utahs methods also aid in nonres point creap in otherstates. This is not just limited to Utah though. Thet tougher it gets to draw in your home state the more hunters seek other alternates to hunt. Just as I believe limited license hunts are aiding to the deminishing number of hunters. People tend to give up and move on the more complicated and difficult it gets to draw a tag. But thats another topic of discussion...

"Courage is being scared to death but
saddling up anyway."

 

[ridgetops]

When we get to the point I'm not allowed to scout any public lands before the hunt starts, then I'll be sold on the comparison.

 

[BrowningRage]

LAST EDITED ON Jun-11-16 AT 10:03PM (MST)[p]"I think you're confused and it is evident from the very first sentence of your post. Point creep and auction tags aren't wildlife management."

Wait, wait wait... are you saying the State of Utah doesn't manage wildlife..?? Interesting...

Auction Tags are part of the management plan in Utah, otherwise we wouldn't allow them; and point creep is a direct result of the wildlife management plan... Soooo


"Therefore, wo be unto him that is at ease in Zion!" 2 Ne. 28: 24

 

[BrowningRage]

You make a fair point Ridgetops... At least the public land you are allowed to scout on, whether or not you're allowed to hunt there...

"Therefore, wo be unto him that is at ease in Zion!" 2 Ne. 28: 24

 

[Zeke]

Oh boy, how shallow!
Okay then, Let's open hunting wide open! Everyone can hunt everything whenever that want. Let's not manage at all and "poof" there's your solution to your little "problem".

I think you're narrow in your views and groping for attention by this thread....but hey, that's okay.

The more I read all the puff and fluff, the more I think tristate have some valid points (I said "some". Ha)

Zeke

 

[grizzly]

>
>When we get to the point
>I'm not allowed to scout
>any public lands before the
>hunt starts, then I'll be
>sold on the comparison.

Fair point. Give the land grab a few years to get the state all privatized and the comparison will be complete.

(PS. If you haven't watched Randy Newberg's YouTube videos on the land grab, you should.)

Grizzly

 

[hossblur]

Of course your right. BTW, try scouting any public land that is incorporated in a CWMU, see how that goes. In fact, try scouting land on the borders of the CWMU's.

The argument for the existence of the CWMU is the same as the argument for the state owning land. "Its to benefit the ordinary guy" Truth is, its a system set up to guarantee a repeat customer base to a commercial enterprise. The state owning the land would do the same.

Its pretty typical Utah. We have rules for you and I, but then we always have the rules for the connected and special folks.

Yeah I know, if we don't let Deseret have an entire customer base that can bypass the point and waiting period game by just buying tags, then they will sell the ranch to Robert Redford and no one will ever hunt it. But if you follow the logic, then the deep pocket guys who buy these tags, generally out of state guys using it as a business write off won't be able to hunt that land? Why do I care? A locked gate is a locked gate, why does it matter who owns the key?


"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"

 

[deweyL]

couldn't agree more, drives me nutz that even if you draw the tag, you have to pay a premium and then contact the land owner to see when its OKAY to hunt the property, so basically they get the goods and then schedule you to get the left overs. frustration anyone

 

[Coyote_chaser]

Utah management is a joke. Tags are so limited its comical. I mean the Manti unit has like 10,000 elk. And probably 4,000 bulls. They give 99 archery tags... I mean come on. They could give out 500 archery tags. And that unit is HUGE!

 

[Ticks N Tines]

I would agree with you about the CWMU Comparison.

I served on the CWMU advisory committee for 5 years and there was one rule that I just could not get over and still cannot get over today.

The rule states that "Public Land" can be incorporated into a CWMU to make a "More definable Boundary". So even though all your BLM maps and GPS maps will show that area as public land, you are not able to hunt it because a landowner was able to take it away to make a better boundary for his CWMU.

I once asked the question: "Can we take some of the private lands and incorporate them into the public lands to make a more definable public boundary?"

The response was "No, that would be ridiculous"

Interesting how things work.......

 

[Deerlove]

Great story HJB makes you wonder if you could fight it if you were caught on the "public" piece?

 

[hossblur]

>I would agree with you about
>the CWMU Comparison.
>
>I served on the CWMU advisory
>committee for 5 years and
>there was one rule that
>I just could not get
>over and still cannot get
>over today.
>
>The rule states that "Public Land"
>can be incorporated into a
>CWMU to make a "More
>definable Boundary". So even though
>all your BLM maps and
>GPS maps will show that
>area as public land, you
>are not able to hunt
>it because a landowner was
>able to take it away
>to make a better boundary
>for his CWMU.
>
>I once asked the question: "Can
>we take some of the
>private lands and incorporate them
>into the public lands to
>make a more definable public
>boundary?"
>
>The response was "No, that would
>be ridiculous"
>
>Interesting how things work.......


Thanks for asking that, sure it took some ballz, most likely didn't make you the most popular guy on the committee!


"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"

 

[Ticks N Tines]

>Great story HJB makes you wonder
>if you could fight it
>if you were caught on
>the "public" piece?

Before I was aware of the rule, I hunted a small piece of BLM that we could always find a few bucks on. We got kicked off twice and I just couldn't understand why. That's when I found out about the rule. Legally, a guy can be on the BLM, he just can't hunt the same species that are listed on the CWMU signs. So you could camp, fish, shed hunt, rabbit hunt, or anything else you want to do. You just can't hunt the CWMU species.

I would bet that you could fight it, but I don't think it would be worth trying. I lost an excellent hunting spot due to this rule. It's just too bad that the division chooses to take away even more public land with little rules like these.

I'm a supporter of the CWMU program and I think the program has come a long way. There are still plenty of complaints and evil operators, but there are also some great operators and very good operations that benefit kids, veterans, and treat the public right.

There's just a few things I don't agree with from a Public Sportsman standpoint.

 

[BrowningRage]

I think you've missed the boat on this one Zeke... You shouldn't look at things so Black and White. "Everyone can hunt everything whenever that want. Let's not manage at all". Nobody said anything like that.

I believe in increased opportunity for everyone. But the only way to grow world-record deer and elk is to reduce opportunity in order to raise the age class. Heavy restrictions on public hunting access to public lands is what the DWR does, and it is very similar to CWMU operations.

"Therefore, wo be unto him that is at ease in Zion!" 2 Ne. 28: 24

 

[heartshot]

Rifle season on a CWMU is way longer vs the states normal 9 days.

 

[elkfromabove]

LAST EDITED ON Jun-14-16 AT 10:31PM (MST)[p]>Rifle season on a CWMU is
>way longer vs the states
>normal 9 days.

The season window may be longer, but that doesn't mean you'll be able to hunt longer. In fact, some CWMU's only allow you a few days. On two different doe hunts on Heaston East, we were allowed to hunt only ONE day.

 

[Ticks N Tines]

>On two different doe hunts
>on Heaston East, we were
>allowed to hunt only ONE
>day.

There is a minimum requirement of 2 days for antlerless CWMU hunts (Increased to 3 this year), and a minimum of 5 days for antlered CWMU hunts. If you are not getting the minimum amount of days, you should be filling out a compliant form with the DWR.