Utah muzzleloader BS

[pauns08]

So what is our retarded utah DWR thinking in the new muzzy scope rules? After shooting quite a few days this summer and not being near as accurate as I'd like with a 1x scope, open sights, and also the Williams precision globe sight I've decided they all suck past about 150 yards. Before this year I was shooting a half inch group at 100 yards and 400 yards was darn near a chip shot with the 4-12 power scope that I had on it and now I'm pretty happy just hitting a 10 inch paper plate at 150 yards. So does the dwr really think that the select few guys that were shooting their muzzleloaders 500+ yards are going to completely decimate the deer herd? Well I can tell you the guys shooting 500 yards knew what they were doing and were quite accurate, now you're going to have everyone shooting at deer at 200-300 yards where really nobody has any business shooting at a deer at 200-300 yards with the new rules. Now before anyone says "I can accurately shoot 300+ yards with the new rules" no, no you can't. You might be able to luck into a 12 inch group but to me that's not considered accurate enough to ethically take an animal. So why not let us have the most accurate weapon we can have?

 

[GeorgeE]

 

[SureShot]

I think you proved exactly what they're thinking...

 

[diablo]

How many threads do we need on this??….

 

[Muleman1]

Turn in your muzzy tag I’m sure someone else would love to take it

 

[Elknut33]

My understanding is reverting back to no scope or 1X scope is to make a primitive weapon hunt, back to a primitive weapon hunt... It appears that mission may have been accomplished.

 

[gundog2]

^^^^^^THIS^^^^^

 

[goforbroke]

So what is our retarded utah DWR thinking in the new muzzy scope rules? After shooting quite a few days this summer and not being near as accurate as I'd like with a 1x scope, open sights, and also the Williams precision globe sight I've decided they all suck past about 150 yards. Before this year I was shooting a half inch group at 100 yards and 400 yards was darn near a chip shot with the 4-12 power scope that I had on it and now I'm pretty happy just hitting a 10 inch paper plate at 150 yards. So does the dwr really think that the select few guys that were shooting their muzzleloaders 500+ yards are going to completely decimate the deer herd? Well I can tell you the guys shooting 500 yards knew what they were doing and were quite accurate, now you're going to have everyone shooting at deer at 200-300 yards where really nobody has any business shooting at a deer at 200-300 yards with the new rules. Now before anyone says "I can accurately shoot 300+ yards with the new rules" no, no you can't. You might be able to luck into a 12 inch group but to me that's not considered accurate enough to ethically take an animal. So why not let us have the most accurate weapon we can have?

Thanks for the report. I don't have a muzzy tag this year. Like you my muzzy could go 400 yards pretty easy. I"ll need to take off the scope and limit yardage when I do draw a tag.

I'm glad they made the change, but not looking forward to sighting in and doping, that gun kicks!!

 

[2lumpy]

If they are going to allow “long range” muzzleloaders, they should allow the optics to make them accurate. To allow one without the other is an ethical quagmire. Classic case of cognitive dissonance.

Not my fight these days but Colorado has this one set up as Utah’s was intended to be……. at its inception. Open sight, round ball, black power.

 

[LIK2HNT]

Even back before high power scopes were allowed I was surprised at all the people running 3-9x scopes. When I talked to a few of them they all said nobody checks or cares.
Now I do wish they would allow a 2x or 3x fixed scope for those of us with older eyesight.

 

[TheButcher]

Are you an inexperienced hunter? Unable to get close enough to be accurate? Or just lazy? Do you want some lessons on how to shoot open sights? Just because YOU can’t shoot accurately with open sights, doesn’t mean others can’t.

 

[pauns08]

Are you an inexperienced hunter? Unable to get close enough to be accurate? Or just lazy? Do you want some lessons on how to shoot open sights? Just because YOU can’t shoot accurately with open sights, doesn’t mean others can’t.

No not inexperienced just would like to ethically kill a deer, I've limited my range to 150 yards. Not that I need to explain anything to you

 

[pauns08]

If they are going to allow “long range” muzzleloaders, they should allow the optics to make them accurate. To allow one without the other is an ethical quagmire. Classic case of cognitive dissonance.

Not my fight these days but Colorado has this one set up as Utah’s was intended to be……. at its inception. Open sight, round ball, black power.

That's my whole point why limit the guns, shouldn't we want to be the most accurate we can to ethically kill what we're shooting at? I think guys are mistaking what I want. I'm fine limiting my range, I was a bowhunter for the first 20 years of my hunting I'm fine getting closer

 

[Mallardsx2]

^^^It’s called rifle season, bro.

 

[TheButcher]

No not inexperienced just would like to ethically kill a deer, I've limited my range to 150 yards. Not that I need to explain anything to you

No, you don’t need to explain anything to me… but you did come onto an Internet forum, post a whiny comment and are complaining like a 17yr old whose parents said he couldn’t use the car this weekend. Learn to ride a bike bud.

If you can’t hold 2” groups at 150 yards with open sights, you need some lessons. Happy to teach you… that is, if you can find a ride to the range. If you’re mom can’t drop you off then maybe take a bus.

 

[yoteduster]

Wow better break out the popcorn and Dew..this one may take awhile.. LOL

 

[2lumpy]

No, you don’t need to explain anything to me… but you did come onto an Internet forum, post a whiny comment and are complaining like a 17yr old whose parents said he couldn’t use the car this weekend. Learn to ride a bike bud.

If you can’t hold 2” groups at 150 yards with open sights, you need some lessons. Happy to teach you… that is, if you can find a ride to the range. If you’re mom can’t drop you off then maybe take a bus.

I’d appreciate that. I can’t leave before 11:15 A.M. today.

 

[GeorgeE]

I’m just shocked no one can get within a hundred yards of an animal anymore…Crazy how that happened!

 

[Mallardsx2]

I do however want to see these 2" groups at 200 yards with iron sights everyone is talking about. Thats about 20 times I have read that.

I did this at 50 yards yesterday and thought I was really doing something. Hell, the fiber optic covers 4" of the paper at 50 yards. lol

Meh, Its "minute of elk".

 

[Mtngoat690]

So what is our retarded utah DWR thinking in the new muzzy scope rules? After shooting quite a few days this summer and not being near as accurate as I'd like with a 1x scope, open sights, and also the Williams precision globe sight I've decided they all suck past about 150 yards. Before this year I was shooting a half inch group at 100 yards and 400 yards was darn near a chip shot with the 4-12 power scope that I had on it and now I'm pretty happy just hitting a 10 inch paper plate at 150 yards. So does the dwr really think that the select few guys that were shooting their muzzleloaders 500+ yards are going to completely decimate the deer herd? Well I can tell you the guys shooting 500 yards knew what they were doing and were quite accurate, now you're going to have everyone shooting at deer at 200-300 yards where really nobody has any business shooting at a deer at 200-300 yards with the new rules. Now before anyone says "I can accurately shoot 300+ yards with the new rules" no, no you can't. You might be able to luck into a 12 inch group but to me that's not considered accurate enough to ethically take an animal. So why not let us have the most accurate weapon we can have?

Just out of curiosity....... why do you choose to muzzle loader hunt? Season it runs, the challenge, better draw odds, or what made you decide to put in to hunt with a muzzle loader?

 

[Mallardsx2]

Just out of curiosity....... why do you choose to muzzle loader hunt? Season it runs, the challenge, better draw odds, or what made you decide to put in to hunt with a muzzle loader?

I'll answer that for him and 90% of the other hunters out there.....

90% of "muzzleloader" hunters are simply trying to get a jump on the rifle hunters. Thats all it is.

Now, they are pissed, because they are at best, 50% as effective. So, they are throwing fits. I am seeing it across a ton of message boards right now. I find it funny.

Muzzleloader draw odds will only get better the more people cry out loud about how hard it is, so I say let them all cry.

 

[LIK2HNT]

Remember years ago when the Mt. Dutton and other MZ hunts were after the rifle hunt. I enjoyed that hunt. Wish they would bring hunts like that back even if it was for side locks only.

 

[Mallardsx2]

Remember years ago when the Mt. Dutton and other MZ hunts were after the rifle hunt. I enjoyed that hunt. Wish they would bring hunts like that back even if it was for side locks only.

I couldn't agree more.

Honestly, I wish they would have made it flintlock with open notched V iron sights only. That would have been the correct move if they did in fact want to make it a primitive season. I would love to see a season like that for elk in one of the states that I collect points in. I would be all over that.

 

[2lumpy]

Remember years ago when the Mt. Dutton and other MZ hunts were after the rifle hunt. I enjoyed that hunt. Wish they would bring hunts like that back even if it was for side locks only.

Those were my all time favorite mule deer hunts. I was more than happy to hunt the left overs. Shoveling snow off the ground to set up the hunting lodge. Hawken style muzzleloader, tracking in the snow, the “sweet smell” of burnt sulfur, and fresh liver fried over a scrub oak fire. WOW, how I miss those hunts, with my young son’s.

 

[Bux n Dux]

So what is our retarded utah DWR thinking in the new muzzy scope rules? After shooting quite a few days this summer and not being near as accurate as I'd like with a 1x scope, open sights, and also the Williams precision globe sight I've decided they all suck past about 150 yards. Before this year I was shooting a half inch group at 100 yards and 400 yards was darn near a chip shot with the 4-12 power scope that I had on it and now I'm pretty happy just hitting a 10 inch paper plate at 150 yards. So does the dwr really think that the select few guys that were shooting their muzzleloaders 500+ yards are going to completely decimate the deer herd? Well I can tell you the guys shooting 500 yards knew what they were doing and were quite accurate, now you're going to have everyone shooting at deer at 200-300 yards where really nobody has any business shooting at a deer at 200-300 yards with the new rules. Now before anyone says "I can accurately shoot 300+ yards with the new rules" no, no you can't. You might be able to luck into a 12 inch group but to me that's not considered accurate enough to ethically take an animal. So why not let us have the most accurate weapon we can have?

^^^thats exactly why.

 

[pauns08]

I chose muzzy mostly for the season dates and I love being out in September listening to bulls bugle while I hunt deer and also because I hunt spike elk in the same areas I muzzy hunt so I can stay camped in about the same spots for about 20 days straight. And like mallard says where are the 2" groups at 200 yards with open sights at cause you're full of sh*t on that hell the sight covers the entire target. It's one thing to talk sh*t and another thing to do it butcher. My guess is you haven't done it cause you sound like a fool thinking you can consistently do it. Have a good day I'm out, 90% of you are pricks.

 

[rmanwill]

Glad they brought it back to what it was. Get the long range shooters back into their weapon hunt (Rifle) and let the muzzleloader hunters use their skills to get within the appropriate/ethical range. I bagged way more deer and elk with my old and now current set up then with the 3X9 scopes. Even with the 3X9 scope most all my kills were under 120 yard.

Looks like it did what was intended!!!

 

[MrShane]

I chose muzzy mostly for the season dates and I love being out in September listening to bulls bugle while I hunt deer and also because I hunt spike elk in the same areas I muzzy hunt so I can stay camped in about the same spots for about 20 days straight. And like mallard says where are the 2" groups at 200 yards with open sights at cause you're full of sh*t on that hell the sight covers the entire target. It's one thing to talk sh*t and another thing to do it butcher. My guess is you haven't done it cause you sound like a fool thinking you can consistently do it. Have a good day I'm out, 90% of you are pricks.

You are correct about the DWR.
They really should have copied in Idaho or Colorado regs!

 

[Bluehair]

If they are going to allow “long range” muzzleloaders, they should allow the optics to make them accurate. To allow one without the other is an ethical quagmire. Classic case of cognitive dissonance.

Not my fight these days but Colorado has this one set up as Utah’s was intended to be……. at its inception. Open sight, round ball, black power.

Ok, I’m confused. In CO, conicals (no sabots) and BP substitutes (loose only) ARE legal. So is 209 ignition.

Not sure what your point was, but about the only difference between CO and UT is no scopes. Which means dudes shooting round balls from a sidelock are still in the game.

 

[Mallardsx2]

Have a good day I'm out, 90% of you are pricks.

No. Wait. Don’t go.

You hurt my feeling.

 

[2lumpy]

Ok, I’m confused. In CO, conicals (no sabots) and BP substitutes (loose only) ARE legal. So is 209 ignition.

Not sure what your point was, but about the only difference between CO and UT is no scopes. Which means dudes shooting round balls from a sidelock are still in the game.

Blue, I should have kept my mouth shut, if I could take back my comment, I would. All that is going to come out in of this is a bunch of useless bickering about water that’s long been under the bridge.

You’re right, I said it incorrectly. I apologize.

 

[Bluehair]

Blue, I should have kept my mouth shut, if I could take back my comment, I would. All that is going to come out in of this is a bunch of useless bickering about water that’s long been under the bridge.

You’re right, I said it incorrectly. I apologize.

No worries. You’re right a lot more often than you’re wrong.

I just want to re iterate the point that ML hunting in CO sux, and everyone should go somewhere else. I hear WY is nice

 

[Cam@strawberry]

No, you don’t need to explain anything to me… but you did come onto an Internet forum, post a whiny comment and are complaining like a 17yr old whose parents said he couldn’t use the car this weekend. Learn to ride a bike bud.

If you can’t hold 2” groups at 150 yards with open sights, you need some lessons. Happy to teach you… that is, if you can find a ride to the range. If you’re mom can’t drop you off then maybe take a bus.

Mr. The Butcher sir, I will gladly bring drinks and snacks for your time. 2” open site group at 150 is pro level shooting and I would like to be exposed to that kind of excellence.

 

[HORNhunter7]

. Have a good day I'm out, 90% of you are pricks.

In the spirit of trying to be in the 10% group I'll strongly agree with everything he said!

 

[pauns08]

Mr. The Butcher sir, I will gladly bring drinks and snacks for your time. 2” open site group at 150 is pro level shooting and I would like to be exposed to that kind of excellence.

Ya I'd watch it as well and take notes to try to learn something. He's been quiet for awhile now though so I imagine he realized he bit off more than he can chew.

 

[JPickett]

they all suck past about 150 yards

that’s the point. Want to take rifle shots hunt rifle sessions. Muzzle loader season was never supposed to be what it turned into.

 

[PleaseDear]

I did this thread, and it might help ya out.

Sighting in Open Site Muzzy | Utah

I felt I better get the scopeless .50 cal dialed in @ the range before they shut 'em down for Fire Restrictions. I drew LE Muzzy buck, so I want to be all dialed in for sure. I got my Deadnuts target order and got it assembled. Deadnuts.com Robb

www.monstermuleys.info

Robb

 

[elkassassin]

And Neither Should Long Range Rifles! (Ya,That'll Probably PISS You Off JP,Because We Know You're A Long RANGER!)

And Neither Should The High-Tech Archery Equipment!

But Let's Take The SmokePole Scopes & See If The Deer Herd Fixes Itself!

HINT: It Won't!

But Let's Try One Little PISSCUTTER Piece Of The Pie Of 50+ F'N Reasons Why The Deer Herd Is F'D Up!

that’s the point. Want to take rifle shots hunt rifle sessions. Muzzle loader season was never supposed to be what it turned into.

 

[JPickett]

And Neither Should Long Range Rifles! (Ya,That'll Probably PISS You Off JP,Because We Know You're A Long RANGER!)

And Neither Should The High-Tech Archery Equipment!

But Let's Take The SmokePole Scopes & See If The Deer Herd Fixes Itself!

HINT: It Won't!

But Let's Try One Little PISSCUTTER Piece Of The Pie Of 50+ F'N Reasons Why The Deer Herd Is F'D Up!

It’s pretty amazing how blinded you are by bias. The reason primitive season dates are better= the weapons limitations. That’s the whole reason. Start losing those limitations ie 800 yard muzzle loaders the whole point is lost. Just can it all and drop the season, go hunt with your “long ranger” muzzy with the rifle guys.

Yes my rifles reach out there. I hunt in what’s called a “modern weapon” season. That term insinuates current state of weapons. Do t like that, let’s change it. But the “primitive “ weapon seasons insinuate not current state of weapons. Hence better opportunity in season . I know you want to have your cake and eat it too but ya gotta pick

I’ll what here for “ garsh darn stick flipper!!!!” Response

 

[TheButcher]

Ya I'd watch it as well and take notes to try to learn something. He's been quiet for awhile now though so I imagine he realized he bit off more than he can chew.

I don’t live on this sight. You suck at shooting. Good for you. Go practice. Complain less and once your mom is done cooking me breakfast, she’ll take you to the range.

 

[Airborne]

I think folks should look at this social issue the following way to get a better understanding:

Imagine a scale of difficulty for hunting weapons where the least difficult is level 1 and the most difficult is level 10.

Traditional Archery (recurve/longbow) is level 10

Modern Compound is level 8-9 (still pulling a bow back with arrows, it's hard)

Modern muzzleloaders with scopes are level 2-3 (and getting easier each year)

Modern Scoped Rifle (ALW) is level 1

This left a very wide gap where we had no intermediary or medium level difficulty weapon. Taking the magnified scopes off of a modern muzzleloader kicked its difficulty level back to level 5 where is should be. The DWR made the right call, otherwise there becomes less and less of a reason to even have a separate muzzleloader hunt as it too closely resembles a rifle hunt.

This is not a hard concept to understand and is reasonable. I get that guys are upset they spent a bunch of money on high end muzzleloaders/scopes but nobody forced you to do that and you were not complaining when you forked over the dough but I get it.

 

[txhunter58]

“Before this year I was shooting a half inch group at 100 yards and 400 yards was darn near a chip shot with the 4-12 power scope that I had on it”

You did a really good job of explaining exactly why they made this change. If you still can’t figure it out, I can’t explain it to you.

And, it’s spilt milk.

 

[txhunter58]

I think folks should look at this social issue the following way to get a better understanding:

Imagine a scale of difficulty for hunting weapons where the least difficult is level 1 and the most difficult is level 10.

Traditional Archery (recurve/longbow) is level 10

Modern Compound is level 8-9 (still pulling a bow back with arrows, it's hard)

Modern muzzleloaders with scopes are level 2-3 (and getting easier each year)

Modern Scoped Rifle (ALW) is level 1

This left a very wide gap where we had no intermediary or medium level difficulty weapon. Taking the magnified scopes off of a modern muzzleloader kicked its difficulty level back to level 5 where is should be. The DWR made the right call, otherwise there becomes less and less of a reason to even have a separate muzzleloader hunt as it too closely resembles a rifle hunt.

This is not a hard concept to understand and is reasonable. I get that guys are upset they spent a bunch of money on high end muzzleloaders/scopes but nobody forced you to do that and you were not complaining when you forked over the dough but I get it.

And they can still use those rifles with scopes. Its called an any weapon season.

 

[elkhunter81]

And Neither Should Long Range Rifles! (Ya,That'll Probably PISS You Off JP,Because We Know You're A Long RANGER!)

And Neither Should The High-Tech Archery Equipment!

But Let's Take The SmokePole Scopes & See If The Deer Herd Fixes Itself!

HINT: It Won't!

But Let's Try One Little PISSCUTTER Piece Of The Pie Of 50+ F'N Reasons Why The Deer Herd Is F'D Up!

Is the guy saying this in possession of a 3 month long deer tag.

 

[pauns08]

I don’t live on this sight. You suck at shooting. Good for you. Go practice. Complain less and once your mom is done cooking me breakfast, she’ll take you to the range.

You sure seem to have alot of mom jokes, you must be a child or just act like one, if you can't have a serious reasonable conversation why don't you escort yourself out.

 

[elkassassin]

And There You Have It From JP!

He Doesn't Muzzloader Hunt So He Can Say What He's Sayin!

I'm Not Mad They They Made The Change On SmokePole Scopes!

I Was In Disbelief Several Years When They Made The Higher Power Scopes Legal For Muzzle loaders!

I've Said A Million Times:

We Are ALL Guilty Of Weaponry Technology!

You Hear That PICKETT?

And I Don't Care Which Weapon Type You Wanna SQUAK About!

Go Ahead & Take!

But Take Fairly Across The Board Of Weapon Types!

You're Gonna BAWL Like A F'N Baby PICKETT When You Have To Take That F'N 5,000.00 Scope Off Of Your Favorite F'N Deer Rifle!

It’s pretty amazing how blinded you are by bias. The reason primitive season dates are better= the weapons limitations. That’s the whole reason. Start losing those limitations ie 800 yard muzzle loaders the whole point is lost. Just can it all and drop the season, go hunt with your “long ranger” muzzy with the rifle guys.

Yes my rifles reach out there. I hunt in what’s called a “modern weapon” season. That term insinuates current state of weapons. Do t like that, let’s change it. But the “primitive “ weapon seasons insinuate not current state of weapons. Hence better opportunity in season . I know you want to have your cake and eat it too but ya gotta pick

I’ll what here for “ garsh darn stick flipper!!!!” Response

 

[MrShane]

And There You Have It From JP!

He Doesn't Muzzloader Hunt So He Can Say What He's Sayin!

I'm Not Mad They They Made The Change On SmokePole Scopes!

I Was In Disbelief Several Years When They Made The Higher Power Scopes Legal For Muzzle loaders!

I've Said A Million Times:

We Are ALL Guilty Of Weaponry Technology!

You Hear That PICKETT?

And I Don't Care Which Weapon Type You Wanna SQUAK About!

Go Ahead & Take!

But Take Fairly Across The Board Of Weapon Types!

You're Gonna BAWL Like A F'N Baby PICKETT When You Have To Take That F'N 5,000.00 Scope Off Of Your Favorite F'N Deer Rifle!

Idaho going to a bonus point type system for Deer soon is gonna bother him more!!

 

[OpeningDay]

First Off, I am for limiting the Muzzy to a more traditional style weapon, hunt, and season. However, my issue is, they didnt take the Race car away from the driver, they simply said dont hit the gas. Ever been on a dike at Farmington bay and seen the Sky busters. They know they cant stretch lead ( or steel ) that far and still they try. Now you let the race cars ( Paramount, Ultimate) type Muzzy's out there with a red dot or open sights and tell me people aren't going to hit the gas. Come on !! They did nothing to limit the weapons capability. Just told the driver not to push the gas. I guarantee lead will still be flying well out past 200 yards with these type weapons.

 

[yoteduster]

First Off, I am for limiting the Muzzy to a more traditional style weapon, hunt, and season. However, my issue is, they didnt take the Race car away from the driver, they simply said dont hit the gas. Ever been on a dike at Farmington bay and seen the Sky busters. They know they cant stretch lead ( or steel ) that far and still they try. Now you let the race cars ( Paramount, Ultimate) type Muzzy's out there with a red dot or open sights and tell me people aren't going to hit the gas. Come on !! They did nothing to limit the weapons capability. Just told the driver not to push the gas. I guarantee lead will still be flying well out past 200 yards with these type weapons.

Yep..there will probably be just as many deer dead and not recovered as there are tagged ones...

 

[MrShane]

First Off, I am for limiting the Muzzy to a more traditional style weapon, hunt, and season. However, my issue is, they didnt take the Race car away from the driver, they simply said dont hit the gas. Ever been on a dike at Farmington bay and seen the Sky busters. They know they cant stretch lead ( or steel ) that far and still they try. Now you let the race cars ( Paramount, Ultimate) type Muzzy's out there with a red dot or open sights and tell me people aren't going to hit the gas. Come on !! They did nothing to limit the weapons capability. Just told the driver not to push the gas. I guarantee lead will still be flying well out past 200 yards with these type weapons.

Agreed.
Should have been #11, flint, or musket cap open ignition system only w/full bore projectile only.
Iron sight only.
Now we’re talkin’!

 

[Mallardsx2]

Yep..there will probably be just as many deer dead and not recovered as there are tagged ones...

There were none being wounded at long range before?

 

[gundog2]

If they are going to allow “long range” muzzleloaders, they should allow the optics to make them accurate. To allow one without the other is an ethical quagmire. Classic case of cognitive dissonance.

Not my fight these days but Colorado has this one set up as Utah’s was intended to be……. at its inception. Open sight, round ball, black power.

The restriction on scopes is the simplest and most enforceable solution, and it doesn’t force tens of thousands of hunters to buy new muzzleloaders or create unnecessary confusion about what kind of muzzleloaders are legal. It’s not really an ethical quagmire if you are willing to stay within your own limitations, but that will always be difficult for some people regardless of weapon restrictions. The current rules are pretty much in line with most other states.

 

[pauns08]

First Off, I am for limiting the Muzzy to a more traditional style weapon, hunt, and season. However, my issue is, they didnt take the Race car away from the driver, they simply said dont hit the gas. Ever been on a dike at Farmington bay and seen the Sky busters. They know they cant stretch lead ( or steel ) that far and still they try. Now you let the race cars ( Paramount, Ultimate) type Muzzy's out there with a red dot or open sights and tell me people aren't going to hit the gas. Come on !! They did nothing to limit the weapons capability. Just told the driver not to push the gas. I guarantee lead will still be flying well out past 200 yards with these type weapons.

Yes! Thank you that's exactly what I've been trying to say I just didn't know how to put it into words. Great analogy.

 

[JPickett]

You're Gonna BAWL Like A F'N Baby PICKETT When You Have To Take That F'N 5,000.00 Scope Off Of Your Favorite F'N Deer Rifle!

I archery hunt way more then I rifle hunt. For big game anyway. But I have the rifles and know how to use them. Modern should be just that. Anything goes, but I say it should be a super short season. Give me a 5 day rifle season I’ll still punch a tag. But boy would you hear a bich fest then

 

[JPickett]

Idaho going to a bonus point type system for Deer soon is gonna bother him more!!

Won’t happen

 

[rmanwill]

First Off, I am for limiting the Muzzy to a more traditional style weapon, hunt, and season. However, my issue is, they didnt take the Race car away from the driver, they simply said dont hit the gas. Ever been on a dike at Farmington bay and seen the Sky busters. They know they cant stretch lead ( or steel ) that far and still they try. Now you let the race cars ( Paramount, Ultimate) type Muzzy's out there with a red dot or open sights and tell me people aren't going to hit the gas. Come on !! They did nothing to limit the weapons capability. Just told the driver not to push the gas. I guarantee lead will still be flying well out past 200 yards with these type weapons.

Not disagreeing. However, this happens with flint locks, precusion caps, paramount, archery and all rifles. There is a lot of hunters that don't have the skills or experience in the type of weapon they chose. But hay they seen it done on hunting shows and bought the same equipment, so they think they can also.

There will always be this in all seasons. Hopefully, over time they will learn the skills and ethics they need to do it right!!!

 

[MrShane]

First Off, I am for limiting the Muzzy to a more traditional style weapon, hunt, and season. However, my issue is, they didnt take the Race car away from the driver, they simply said dont hit the gas. Ever been on a dike at Farmington bay and seen the Sky

The restriction on scopes is the simplest and most enforceable solution, and it doesn’t force tens of thousands of hunters to buy new muzzleloaders or create unnecessary confusion about what kind of muzzleloaders are legal. It’s not really an ethical quagmire if you are willing to stay within your own limitations, but that will always be difficult for some people regardless of weapon restrictions. The current rules are pretty much in line with most other states.

Not the states to our north or east.

 

[middlefork]

They came up with these hunts called HAMS hunts that meet all the limitations some are advocating. If it means that much to you then apply for them.
The gate keeping with hunting is strong in this crowd.

 

[Shadow]

They came up with these hunts called HAMS hunts that meet all the limitations some are advocating. If it means that much to you then apply for them.
The gate keeping with hunting is strong in this crowd.

There’s a general season any weapon hunt too. If high power scopes on a muzzy mean that much to you, apply for one of those tags.

 

[middlefork]

There’s a general season any weapon hunt too. If high power scopes on a muzzy mean that much to you, apply for one of those tags.

I was commenting on Mr Shane's post. I'm not complaining about the current regulations.

You want primitive it is available.

 

[slamdunk]

First Off, I am for limiting the Muzzy to a more traditional style weapon, hunt, and season. However, my issue is, they didnt take the Race car away from the driver, they simply said dont hit the gas. Ever been on a dike at Farmington bay and seen the Sky busters. They know they cant stretch lead ( or steel ) that far and still they try. Now you let the race cars ( Paramount, Ultimate) type Muzzy's out there with a red dot or open sights and tell me people aren't going to hit the gas. Come on !! They did nothing to limit the weapons capability. Just told the driver not to push the gas. I guarantee lead will still be flying well out past 200 yards with these type weapons.

No, we (the committee) had a lot of discussion about this as the fuse for long range muzzies has already been lit.
We know full well about upcoming peep systems and other alternatives to reaching out, it's simply going to happen and it can't be fully stopped at this point unless we went full percussion and a full ban on inlines were implemented.
What we did do was limit the ability to "magnify", which does without doubt, cripple the inlines to within reason.
Yes, there will be 300 yard pokes, just as there will be 100 yard arrows flipped and 800 yard lead flung regardless of the electronics ban, but it definitely slows and tames the easy technology so readily available.
Future tech will be discussed as it develops.

 

[hossblur]

No not inexperienced just would like to ethically kill a deer, I've limited my range to 150 yards. Not that I need to explain anything to you

How many times can you make the point before you realize you made the point?

 

[MrShane]

They came up with these hunts called HAMS hunts that meet all the limitations some are advocating. If it means that much to you then apply for them.
The gate keeping with hunting is strong in this crowd.

Can’t do a HAMS hunt every year.

 

[MrShane]

The gate keeping with hunting is strong in this crowd.

Gotta do what ya gotta due when you love and care about a limited resource.
You see, years ago was this thing called ‘market hunting’ for waterfowl.
Fortunately for us, some gate keeping was performed and now we can still shoot ducks 100 years later.

 

[MrShane]

No, we (the committee) had a lot of discussion about this as the fuse for long range muzzies has already been lit.
We know full well about upcoming peep systems and other alternatives to reaching out, it's simply going to happen and it can't be fully stopped at this point unless we went full percussion and a full ban on inlines were implemented.
What we did do was limit the ability to "magnify", which does without doubt, cripple the inlines to within reason.
Yes, there will be 300 yard pokes, just as there will be 100 yard arrows flipped and 800 yard lead flung regardless of the electronics ban, but it definitely slows and tames the easy technology so readily available.
Future tech will be discussed as it develops.

Will the ‘upcoming peep systems and other alternatives to reaching out’ be discussed by the Tech Committee soon?

 

[diablo]

What we did do was limit the ability to "magnify", which does without doubt, cripple the inlines to within reason.

Agreed! 1000 yard-capable muzzys have to have optics. Otherwise they’re sub 300 yard rifle in nearly everyone’s hands. The “new” dialable peeps and fine front sights won’t make them 1000 yard rifles again.

 

[slamdunk]

Will the ‘upcoming peep systems and other alternatives to reaching out’ be discussed by the Tech Committee soon?

If need be, yes.
As of now, there isn't anything pressing that needs looked at that we are aware of.
There are also people appointed to attend the Shot Show annually to learn about any and all future tech hitting the market that will report back to the committee with anything of concern.

 

[quest]

This is just a temporary let down. Actually it made it easier to get a muzzleloader tag with just 1 point. It was harder to get that tag when they allowed variable power scopes.

 

[deadibob]

I’m just shocked no one can get within a hundred yards of an animal anymore…Crazy how that happened!

I understand what you are saying but in some cases it is geographically impossible to get that close.

That doesn’t mean take a 400 yard Hail Mary but to find other options, wait them out until they are on better terrain or give up and find a different animal.

 

[deadibob]

First Off, I am for limiting the Muzzy to a more traditional style weapon, hunt, and season. However, my issue is, they didnt take the Race car away from the driver, they simply said dont hit the gas. Ever been on a dike at Farmington bay and seen the Sky busters. They know they cant stretch lead ( or steel ) that far and still they try. Now you let the race cars ( Paramount, Ultimate) type Muzzy's out there with a red dot or open sights and tell me people aren't going to hit the gas. Come on !! They did nothing to limit the weapons capability. Just told the driver not to push the gas. I guarantee lead will still be flying well out past 200 yards with these type weapons.

They didn’t say don’t hit the gas, they put restrictor plates and engine size limits to slow them down. In some instances they banned particular engines such as the 351 Cleveland. If memory serves correct that badazz motor has been banned in motor sports more than any other engines and that’s because nobody likes to watch Chevy boys cry.

 

[rmanwill]

This is just a temporary let down. Actually it made it easier to get a muzzleloader tag with just 1 point. It was harder to get that tag when they allowed variable power scopes.

This!!!!

 

[txhunter58]

First Off, I am for limiting the Muzzy to a more traditional style weapon, hunt, and season. However, my issue is, they didnt take the Race car away from the driver, they simply said dont hit the gas. Ever been on a dike at Farmington bay and seen the Sky busters. They know they cant stretch lead ( or steel ) that far and still they try. Now you let the race cars ( Paramount, Ultimate) type Muzzy's out there with a red dot or open sights and tell me people aren't going to hit the gas. Come on !! They did nothing to limit the weapons capability. Just told the driver not to push the gas. I guarantee lead will still be flying well out past 200 yards with these type weapons.

There is maybe a half inch difference in groups at 150 yards between my T/C Omega, my Knight Long Range stainless steel bolt action inline, and my Thompson Center side-lock shooting a pure lead conical. One is not inherently more accurate than the other.

Some people will stretch the boundary on whatever weapon they use, including bows. That’s on them. Those people were prob trying 600 yrds with their scoped muzzy. Ya can’t fix stupid.

Bottom Line is they reduced the effective range on a muzzleloader, which was their goal.

 

[OpeningDay]

There is maybe a half inch difference in groups at 150 yards between my T/C Omega, my Knight Long Range stainless steel bolt action inline, and my Thompson Center side-lock shooting a pure lead conical. One is not inherently more accurate than the other.

Some people will stretch the boundary on whatever weapon they use, including bows. That’s on them. Those people were prob trying 600 yrds with their scoped muzzy. Ya can’t fix stupid.

Bottom Line is they reduced the effective range on a muzzleloader, which was their goal.

I think more along the lines of they have reduced the effective range of the person behind the weapon. They did noting to reduce the effective range of the weapon itself. My paramount will still be loaded with 160 grains of powder with a 285 grain ELR. They limited my capabilities to effectively shoot longer ranges, but the gun can still do it. This cannot be said about my TC Pro hunter loaded with 90 grains of powder and a 250 grain conical for Colorado.

 

[yoteduster]

There were none being wounded at long range before?

Sure there was.. But tere will probably be more now...

 

[Mallardsx2]

Sure there was.. But tere will probably be more now...

I hope you’re wrong.

 

[Cahunter805]

I do however want to see these 2" groups at 200 yards with iron sights everyone is talking about. Thats about 20 times I have read that.

I did this at 50 yards yesterday and thought I was really doing something. Hell, the fiber optic covers 4" of the paper at 50 yards. lol

View attachment 153282

Meh, Its "minute of elk".

Are you putting the top of fiber optic on the barrel end right under the dot or trying to cover the dot with the fiber optic?
I’ve found that aiming right under really helps seeing everything in alignment and groups shrunk a bit also.

 

[deadibob]

Will the ‘upcoming peep systems and other alternatives to reaching out’ be discussed by the Tech Committee soon?

What do you mean by upcoming peep systems. Adjustable (peep) tang sights have been around for over 150 years. Buffalo hunters used them, Sharps rifles have them, my SMLE Mark 5 #4 had them (Lee Enfield .303 British). They are accurate for more than 500 yards easily. The downside is they don't work well in low light unless your peep is large but that reduces accuracy to a point.