Utah DWR at it again

[tbone30]

I was just checking out the agenda for the July RAC when I discovered that there is a shed antler committee that is bringing proposals to this meeting about an ethics course (all for it) and a possible fee for said course(totally against). Also may give DWR authority to close areas, on an emergency basis (yeah right). All that will do is continue to screw us honest folks that don't go around roadblocks, respect road closures, and give wildlife lots of time and space. I'm tired of riding my horse up the mountain (because the road is closed) and finding 4-wheeler tracks everywhere. Bessy, can I get a tune-up kit from you to use the next time I find one of these jokers?

 

[Ungulate]

I wonder if that would result in a possible permit required to collect antlers? I guess the emergency basis is reasonable depending on winter conditions as well. Thanks for the update.

 

[browtine]

Thanks for the update. I wonder if they have seen something with the extended bow hunters that made them feel the ethics course would be a good idea? I also wonder if they would issue a card with it and if someone didn't have one, be cited for picking up sheds without one?

Later, Brandon

 

[slamdunk]

I happen to sit on the shed committee, feel free to PM me and i can fill you in on "proposals" before you all flip your lids.

 

[browtine]

Your safe. I know first hand your doing the best job you can on such a touchy subject. I for one am glad they recruited good people to help with tough issues.

Later, Brandon

 

[slamdunk]

Thanks Brandino...you helped give us some good perspective that was given to the "committee" on what you as an avid shed hunter is concerned with, and i greatly appreciate your enthusiasm and honesty.

These poropals we have come up with will be a good thing for the great sport of shedhunting, and will be relatively painless for all.

It's good for the animals, it's good for the land and habitat and it's good for the sportsman.

 

[proutdoors]

slammy, I am glad you are on this committee. Hang tough, any time someone steps and does SOMETHING instead of just whine you get attacked. Keep us posted, seems like some smart SOB recommended you for this committee.:7

PRO

Define, develop, and sustain BOTH trophy and opportunity hunts throughout the state of Utah.

 

[slamdunk]

Thanks Pro!
These new regulations are definately a good thing all around, people just need to give it an honest chance and some thought before trying to kill it with ignorance.

Here's a little point to ponder-

Shed antlers are a natural and renewable resource every year and this state doesn't make one dime off ot it.
It is also the ONLY resource this state doesn't make any money off of, it COSTS the state money!!

 

[Antlers_Ink]

How do you figure the State doesn't make a dime off of antlers?
They have disposal auctions and sell plenty of road kill and poached horns. I didn't make it up there to the auction this year to see what was sold but in years past they had sheds to sell as well.

 

[slamdunk]

Antlers ink-
The stuff they sell at their "garage sale" are usually confiscated items for one reason or another.
The state doesn't make one red cent from actual "shed hunting" by the sportsman, it's a "freebie" for us.

 

[tbone30]

Again, all for the ethics course. I just don't see it helping. It will always be a matter of enforcement, i.e. there is not enough. Too many dishonest suckers making it rough on the rest of us, whether they take the course or not.

Absolutely opposed to the fee or permit, although I have seen this coming for several years.

 

[WildAntlerMan]

I am an avid shed hunter like the rest of you; we all have seen how out of control it is becoming first hand. I am all for what they have in mind along with what we as shed hunters can bring to the table. Doug and I have discussed some of the proposals they have in mind and they are good. One thing we all need to do is voice our opinions at the meetings. One thing we need to keep in mind is that shed hunting is a huge business as well as a hobby. Trust me first hand, I don't want to have to buy a license to pick up bone but we all know it is going to happen either now or later. Will this stop the entire road rash we see in the hills, trespassing, non-fair chasing of big game (ending in winter kill) or even poaching? NO; but it will help. Each year I see it getting worse and worse. Again we know it is inevitable and it will happen sooner or later.

 

[slamdunk]

Good post Wes, thank you.

PM reply sent back, Tbone.
Thanks for asking the questions.

 

[AWHOLELOTTABULL]

You knew this was coming. If we were able to "self regulate" there would be no need for any laws but that aint gonna happen. Unfortunately man can not self regulate. Laws are made for the same people that break them. It's better to have somebody like slam in there that knows and understands the sport/hobbie than somebody that doesn't appreciate your passion for shed hunting. I am not a big shed hunter. I would love to get out more and hunt them but it's a time issue for me. I would not be the one to be on a committee like that because I don't fully understand the economics behind it or the passion. Thanks for taking the time slam.

It's always an adventure!!!
www.awholelottabull.com

 

[Antlers_Ink]

I know in Wyoming the Fish and Game cannot charge a fee for shed hunting. Their legislature has ruled that once an animal has shed it's horns it is no longer considered wildlife therefore it is out of their jurisdiction. They do continue to close off lands and have rules as to when you can pick up a shed in a given area.
But Utah has stricter laws on picking up anything attached to a skull plate. We all know winter kills, Lion kills, and old age
happen in the animal world. It's a shame that we all have to pay for the acts of a few, but that's how government works. Gotta control the masses. It's obvious to everyone that shed hunting is growing into a very popular sport. Those that are into it hate to see more and more restrictions. Obviously your not going to please everybody but how far will the restrictions
reach until the sport is not what it used to be?
Slam--as far as the State not making a dime off of sheds is not entirely accurate. You call it a Garage Sale trying to downplay that they make anything at all. If it wasn't worth their time they would have stopped doing it years ago.
Granted, they aren't making as much money as if they started to charge for a shed permit or class or something.
I guess I'll wait until I see the proposal before I start pissin' and moanin', but I still see it as another freedom being
infringed upon in my book.

 

[slamdunk]

Antlers-ink-

My term "garage sale" was used facesiously.
They have that sale to "clean house" of all the stuff they acquire through poachings, stolen items, confiscated items, blah blah blah....of course they aren't just going to give it away. The amount of dollars generated by that is nothing and really means nothing, it's pocket change basically.

As far as a freedom being infringed on, i totally disagree.
Shed antlers are owned by the state, just like the animals that dropped them.
We have all just been spoiled by not having a fee or any rules and regs regarding shed hunting until now.
Wanna debate that?

Look at the definitions in the proclomation. It CLEARLY states "big game animals and their parts"....shed antlers are "parts".

It all boils down to this, and i don't intend on sounding harsh here at all, forgive me if i do.
You wanna go fishing?? get a license.
Wanna go hunting?? get a license
You wanna go shed hunting....get a license.

I see your points antler-ink, and we all knew (committe and RAC members) that this was going face oposition, but all new laws do until people get used to them.

Your permit to pick up sheds will not cost you a thing but a little time passing an online ethics and habitat course....pretty painless.
Your permit will be good state wide from January 31st thru May 15th, then it's open season for anyone to gather sheds.
Fines for breaking laws will also be strictly enforced and gone up substantually from last year.

Keep in mind that shed antler gathering is only costing this state a lot of money, all while we are STILL enjoying a "free sport".

Feel free to PM me for more info, or you can simply go online to the DNR site and read the antler gathering proposal slated for the RAC meeting on August 7th.

 

[madmoose]

its kinda like wiping before you poop... it doesnt make sense..... when a person is out hiking around in utahs wilderness and runs across numerous beer cans, cigarette packs, or pine cones. should we not pick that stuff up because we dont have a permit, or leave it there because it doesnt have the value of an antler.. i quess we could pick it all up and dump it at the state capital lawn since it would be considered theirs. and ask them next time try to keep our PUBLIC lands a little cleaner.
if they set antler hunting dates, and wrote fines(big)ones, like they charge for a tag in a premium hunt, then got out from behind the desk when time comes to enforce, if its as bad as it sounds like, they''ll make plenty of money to cover the cost of employees, and maybe the unethical folks will see that what they have found isnt worth all the money its going to cost them..that word would spred like wild fire.
just food for thought...

 

[AWHOLELOTTABULL]

madmoose - "when a person is out hiking around in utahs wilderness and runs across numerous beer cans, cigarette packs, or pine cones. should we not pick that stuff up because we dont have a permit, or leave it there because it doesnt have the value of an antler.. i quess we could pick it all up and dump it at the state capital lawn since it would be considered theirs. and ask them next time try to keep our PUBLIC lands a little cleaner."

What the hell are you talking about? Are you really comparing litter to sheds? Last time I checked deer and elk don't crap out beer cans and candy wrappers or smoke. While I agree with the big fines and enforcement statement, I suggest you rethink that first part. You're right..... "it doesn't make sense".


It's alwasy an adventure!

www.awholelottabull.com

 

[thebeav]

LAST EDITED ON Jul-07-08 AT 05:21PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Jul-07-08 AT 05:20?PM (MST)

I think alot of you have lost your mind! Lets get back to what it is all about and that is money you know as well as I know that it is eating up the dwr that they might have a opportunity to squeeze another dollar out of the sportsman. They will find a way to tell us how bad it is and how the people are harrasing the wildlife and so on, but what it comes down to is cow tag hunter bought a tag so they have the right to chase hurds of elk through the hills and there is no problem with that. Besides the fact that when they do kill a cow elk most are pregnant and therfore they are really killing 2-3 elk. What I am trying to say is that shed horn hunting never was a big deal until they thought it was getting to be to big of a sport and they could capatalize on some of the sportsman doing it. If you think for one minute that by taking a ethics class online that anything is going to change then you really are stupid. Thet same jerk that is chasing the elk or deer for a antler to fall off is going to be there but he will be there with a ethics permit and nothing will change. shut it down all together and people will find a way to break the law. My solution is to leave it alone they dont have the man power to cover what they need to let alone look for shed hunters harrasing game. Lets worry about building our elk and deer heards so that shed horns would be a thing of the past because we could once again kill a big bull or buck every year instead of scrounging a shed horn off of the public ground and pay for it. Years ago people didnt look for sheds beacuase they could kill a big buck every year but now a shed is as close to it as some people will ever get. Manage our Big Game not our people and we just might not have these kind of problems. Just a thought

 

[slamdunk]

thebeav-

If you can't take the time to look further than the end your your nose on this issue, then do what you last statement said....keep it "just a thought".

If you would look into the proposals, you will see that the permit is FREE, so why are you making it out to be a money issue???

The money issue is that this state is forking OUT money on shed hunting so YOU can enjoy it, got that??

We (the committee) wanted at LEAST a $5 fee for these permits to be "ear tagged" and to go back INTO the sport of shed hunting to help fund the projects that it entails, but guess what BEAV?
The RAC voted "NO we are not going to charge the sportsman one more dime for tags at this point."

There are an estimated 150,000 shed hunters in this state, more than there are deer hunters!
Do the math on 150,000 x $5...that's a LOT of money this state COULD have had, had they NOT turned it down, beav!!

And as far as the state managing the herds better.....do you read other posts?? The general and mule deer forum are FULL of posts right now on what this state is doing for our deer herds starting next year...20+ units instead of 5.

Do more research before you have a "thought" please.

 

[thebeav]

LAST EDITED ON Jul-07-08 AT 09:24PM (MST)[p]Sorry I just get worked up about these things it just seems that if you have money in our state you can buy and hunt where you want to and the average joe takes it in the shorts. I see no point in arguing with you as you seem to be a little bitter over what happened.

 

[thebeav]

I think we all get a little worked up about these things because it is so much apart of our lives, I am willing to hear anyones thoughts on any issue and I may be wrong on alot of things. Feel free to call me I am the southeastern UBA Rep and would be willing discuss anything from shed hunting to game managment with you, feel free to call me anytime 4356507172

 

[slamdunk]

You could very well be right beav, you may have a permit fee NEXT year, who knows? We wanted it to start this year with a $5 fee so the shed huting projects could be funded BY shed hunting, not from the general fund, why is that such a bad thing??
But the RAC voted it down....(say thanks RAC fer keeping this sport free of charge)

You fish don't you??
Your fishing lisence funds that so you have something to catch, does it not?

I'll tell you what beav, i'll send you a check for $5 next year so you can go shed hunting if it doesn't fit your budget....
got that?? (lol )

Pardon my anger or frustration in this, i am a shed hunter too, but it's out of control by idiots that are runing it for the honest and ethical guy, same reason there are laws and control for everything else we as Amercians do and enjoy as a freedom.

 

[thebeav]

I hear you loud and clear but there has got to be a better way there is idiots involved in every aspect of the outdoors and there will always be idiots. we just need to find a way to work around them. example the guy that shot the deer in the but with a field point, what do you do about that? all you can do is hope they slip up and get caught and hang themselfs. not make more laws. call me sometime and we can chat a little about hunting and the states management plan for 09. have a good one.

 

[slamdunk]

LAST EDITED ON Jul-07-08 AT 10:33PM (MST)[p]I work with "juice", he was very upset this morning over what he saw on his weekend getaway elk scouting trip.
New roads designated by the forest service that were obviously made by a careless ATV rider, and too top it off, a deer stuck in the butt with a field point by a careless archer.
Needless to say, juice was pretty "juiced up" over his finding this weekend. Lol

Yes we need to make changes in a few areas and we all realize that "laws don't fix stupid"....but they help and without them, there'd a be a lot more stupidity going around.

Sorry about blowing off steam beav, the name calling in your first post lit my fuse and we simply don't need that kind of thing added to an already frustrating and sensative issue.

I don't have a problem calling you sometime if there are issues we could discuss, i usually save those things for a RAC meeting or hear on the forums where everyone else can post ideas, views and opinions....and a little name calling on occasion. Lol

Thanks for cooling down

 

[Cam@strawberry]

Easy beav you might just cause you slam to have a stroke there isnt much room for the veins with all the muscle he has ;-)

Bury me in the hills so i can fertilize the grass and grow bigger animals for the rest of ya