RE: Utah Conservation permits
>"First off, how does having to
>pay $10,000 for a tag
>provide me with MORE opportunity
>than I have paying for
>a $400 tag no matter
>how many $10,000 tags we
>throw out there?"
>
>You are being short sighted.
>The state makes more money
>off of the deer tag
>which in turn is spent
>on conservation efforts to increase
>deer populations and increase tag
>availibility.
>
>"Second, I've NEVER in my life
>paid $400 for a mule
>deer tag and don't intend
>to. Your assumption is that
>most Utah deer hunters are
>like your customers and are
>willing to pay the same
>amount of money for the
>hunt and the mount as
>the hunters you see every
>day in your shop, but
>that just isn't the case.
>I can see why a
>taxidermist would think the majority
>of hunters are always (and
>only) after a monster because
>that's who they most associate
>with, but that just isn't
>the way it is. Inches
>don't drive my passion for
>hunting and that's true of
>most of the hunters I
>know. I'll certainly take a
>big one if I have
>the chance (and I have),
>but I will never eat
>a tag if I can
>help it."
>
>So by saying you get the
>tag even cheaper than $400
>you prove my point even
>more that the tags are
>being sold for too little
>money.
>
>"Which brings me to my third
>point. You're putting the price
>of a hunt on the
>animal, but a hunt is
>much more than that. Most
>of my memorable hunts were
>with average or small (or
>even no) animals harvested. They
>were trophies because of the
>adventure associated with them, not
>the size of the antlers/horns."
>
>
>Fantastic! You just admitted to
>the point that when the
>state gives away a tag
>they are not giving away
>a public resource they are
>giving away a permit to
>hunt. You haven't admitted
>that for months so you
>could keep complaining about SFW
>"stealing".
>
>"Fouth, as you've indicted (and chided
>me regarding), your vision of
>the ideal hunting system would
>force me to make a
>choice between Disneyland and hunting.
>My vision and the current
>system does not. I can
>(and do) enjoy both. Why
>would I want that changed,
>especially when there's no additional
>benefit to wildlife?"
>
>Youy change because there is a
>benefit to it and at
>the current pace your selfishness
>will not allow your grandchildren
>an opportunity to hunt.
>Hope they like disneyland, cause
>grandpa wanted hunting for himself
>and didn't give a damn
>if they get to.
>
>"Which brings us to five. You
>view the current system as
>a major reason for the
>decline of mule deer in
>Utah and the west and
>that by throwing more money
>into the mix we will
>be able to fix the
>problem(s). Neither one of those
>views is the truth. While
>mule deer and moose are
>declining in Utah, elk are
>on the rise, pronghorn numbers
>are stable, and Bighorn sheep,
>bison and Mountain goats are
>also on the rise and
>are being moved to new
>places all the time, all
>under the same system. Regarding
>the mule deer decline, the
>reasons are varied and complex,
>including some that we cannot
>control no matter how much
>money we throw at them,
>(weather, natural fires, mule deer
>behavior, human encroachment) and others
>that we don't yet have
>a handle on (cheatgrass and
>other invasive plants, CWD, highway
>deaths, deer and elk competition,
>decline of aspen, coyotes), and
>still others that require more
>manpower than money, (overbrowsed winter
>range, pinion/juniper encroachment, burned habitat
>requiring reseeding). Money isn't always
>the answer!"
>
>Your DNR is teatering on bankrupcy.
> YOU NEED MORE MONEY!
> There isn't one single
>problem facing the mule deer
>in the west that can't
>be fought with brains and
>money. You sir have
>neither.
>
>"Six; Your system would likely negate
>some, if not all, of
>the revenue currently received by
>our DWR. The $7.00+ retained
>per application is gone. And
>if I couldn't bid on
>a permit, why would I
>buy a hunting license? In
>fact, if I could bid
>on a permit, why would
>I allow that extra charge?
>Also, if the DWR became
>even more self sufficient, why
>would our legislators continue allowing
>them to draw from the
>general funds? In fact, they
>could be over the budget
>set by the legislators (hunters
>and non-hunters alike) and would
>have to return some of
>it back to the general
>funds. Also what about federal
>funds which are based on
>the number of permits and/or
>licenses sold? All of these
>current funds, added to the
>dollar-impacted decisions of the Wildlife
>Board, play into the designated
>budget, so it's not like
>our DWR can just do
>whatever they choose to do
>with any money they receive."
>
>
>I know. Thats why you
>need more money. If
>everyone wants a slice of
>your pie but you want
>more pie, YOU MAKE YOUR
>PIE BIGGER!
>
>"Finally; Your system is based solely
>on monetary values which constantly
>change (gallon of gas, anyone?)
>and on a commodity (wildlife)
>that can't be shelved, stockpiled
>or controlled and any economic
>decline would highly impact your
>system because fewer people would
>be willing (or able) to
>participate. If I have a
>choice between hunting (legally) or
>paying the light bill, guess
>which I'll choose? (Yea, forget
>Disnyeland.)"
>
>You worry about an economic decline?
> This system works in
>entire nations that have a
>GDP less than your whole
>state.
>
>"Idealistic? Maybe. Realistic? Never!"
>
>Shortsighted? ALWAYS!
You miss and/or ignore the point and/or make false claims in every one of your responses and have now resorted to personal insults in an attempt to reel me into a shouting match. I'm sorry, but I don't do that. I'm open to a GOOD debate, but an insulting, name-calling shouting match is a waste of my time and is counterproductive. I'll just refer you and the readers to some websites that show how well your trophy/money based system works for the huemul in Argentina and Chile. Meanwhile, I'll continue to go to the local Regional Advisory Council and State Wildlife Board meetings to state my case and will continue to assist the DWR in mule deer recovery efforts which includes transplanting does, lop and scatter pinyon/juniper encroached winter range, bitterbrush seed planting, highway escape ramp renovations, guzzler building and maintanance, etc. I may not have the money (or brains), but I still have two good hands.
www.tierramerica.net/english/2005/0730/iarticulo.shtml
www.wildworldadventures.com/hunting-south-america/
www.publish.csiro.au/nid/72/paper/AN10237.htm