USO vs AZ

[Bill (Guest)]

I heard a rumor that AZ lost all appeals and will up the nonresident quota, probabally this year. This came from an AZ warden. MT is supposed to be next. Anyone else hear anything?

 

[Heat (Guest)]

What you heard is not true. There has yet to be a decision on the case. There will be a hearing later this month. A decision is expected sometime in the next two or three months.

 

[270longshot]

This is such sh#T we are prob going to get screwed it looks like something like a 50% non res chance. If that happens we will never ever draw a sheep tag or antelope tag in our own state. What a joke. It don't care if all the other states are 50% either. Especially in other states where you have to get a guide. I guess hunting will be like every other fu##ing thing in this country. For the people with lots of cash. This sucks! uso can suck my A####!

 

[RLH]

where does this 50% deal come from? from what i've read, the best that noresidents can hope for is to have equal chance with the residents. that's what the lawsuit is about, nonresidents being capped at a certain % of permits. what the uso jerks want is to be able to flood the quality units with nonresident applications and draw as many of them as they can, with no cap, like there is now. there ain't no way there is gonna be a bunch of permits that are reserved for nonresidents. at least i hope not. can't imagine why it would be that way. the way it has been in the past is that only a certain percentage of permits could go to nonresidents. uso applys thousands of nonresidents for the few Az. permits that are available. some units uso hunters would draw virtually every permit that was available for nonresidents. but it was capped at that percentage. what they want is for there to be no cap and they can put a million damn nonresidents in if they want to and just with the sheer numbers the odds will be drastically in their favor to draw a bunch of permits, and pretty much insure that residents will have even less chance. hell, if you're lucky now you might get a bull elk tag every 7 or 8 years. if you're lucky.

 

[bishop (Guest)]

Can anybody tell me exactly what uso wants, the facts. Dam I'm tired of the rich getting everything they want!!!!!

 

[The Answer (Guest)]

This is to everyone but QUIT HIRING GUIDES. This is the only thing that will stop them. Try going hunting and scouting on your own, enjoy the hunt even if you don't get something.

Mr. Answer

 

[RLH (Guest)]

uso wants the odds in their favor, plain and simple. i think what i said a couple posts up is about it. as it is now there is a cap, i think 5%, on the number of nonresidents that can be drawn for a given hunt or maybe species. so as it is, uso, with their "hunter pool" can only get so many permits, no matter what. they want that % eliminated and want nonresidents to have the same odds as residents. only it won't work that way. they apply hundreds and even thousands of people for premium hunts in Az, and other states, each year. with no limit, they could concievably apply so many people for premuim elk, sheep, pronghorn and kaibab deer permits, that residents wouldn't even hardly have a chance, because there would be so many nonresident applicants stuffed in there by uso and their "pool" that the odds would simply go away. the odds for an early rifle elk tag or a kaibab deer tag are less than 1% for residents now. they'll get to where they're about as low the odds of winning the powerball. this is how i understand it. someone correct me if i'm wrong.

 

[Heat (Guest)]

Currently non-residents can draw up to 10% of the permits available. The suit is to have the cap removed. I'm not sure if they want a certain % of tags set aside or just no cap. As it is right now, the cap hardly affects the draw, except in the most popular of the hunts. There are so many residents trying for tags that the non-residents rarely hit the 10% cap as it is. I hope the Game and Fish Department and Commission are firmly committed to providing opportunities for the citizens of the state to recreate within their own state.

 

[YollaBolly]

Is it a fact that USO sends in THOUSANDS of non resident applications for hunts in AZ? Or is that BS? Thousands sounds like several hundred more than whats factual. Rick

 

[What a joke (Guest)]

Thousands sounds a little far fetched to me also. Maybe and I mean maybe "50" but I doubt that. I think non-residents deserve an equal a chance to draw especially the ones that live closer to the area than the residents of the state. Just for example, I'm from Southern Utah and I bet I know the areas and have spent more time in the areas north of the Colorado River than most of the residents of the great state of Arizona. If I get more of a chance to draw that would be great after putting in for 18 years for both deer and elk in Arizona and no luck! It's about time I draw something! I have maximum points but how does that do me any good when everyone else has the same thing and there are only 5 to 7 non-resident tags! Give me a break! Let's make every state an equal opportunity for everyone! We are all U.S. citizens here! I thought it was against the law to discriminate! Isn't that what is going on here with all these individual state draws? It's time to put an end to it and make things equal!

 

[What a joke (Guest)]

By the way I'm not a guide and I'm not part of USO. I would just like to see more of an equal opportunity for everyone. Discrimination needs to stop and I feel that is what these individual states are doing by limiting non-resident tags. Everyone throw in their application and equal opportunity to draw. That's the only fair way. Every state needs to do it that way not just Arizona. The federal government needs to force these individual states into promoting equal opportunity for everyone.

 

[Muley62 (Guest)]

USO does send in thousands of applications each year with thier application service. If you purchase the list of successful applicants for the premier tags in AZ you will find that many of the addresses are a PO Box in Taos NM that belongs to George. When the odds of drawing a early rifle bull tag are less than 3% and 46% of the successful non-residents have the same address then they must be puttting in a bunch of apps. Do the math what a joke.

 

[What a joke (Guest)]

Muley62,
Sounds like you have more background as far as USO than I have. If that is really happening then there needs to be some kind of restriction on how many applications they can submit. Maybe restrict guides to so many applications. Or maybe restrict only 4 applications from the same address. Obviously, if what you say is true then I'm with you, something needs to be done about that! Like I say, I've been putting in for years and if I'm competing with that for those 5 to 7 tags then it is a joke!

 

[What a joke (Guest)]

If these application services are doing this then they need to be outlawed! If what you say is really true that really pisses me off!!!! I've been putting in my whole adult life to draw tags and people are out there taking my chances away making a profit off of the application process!! You've got me fired up!!!!! We need to eliminate these USO @#!holes!!!! I'm with you! I wish I could delete my 2 posts above! I was clueless to this fact. Keep the non-residents to 10% I don't care. We need to rid the hunting world of these money hungry, greedy !@##@#@$!

 

[warbird]

Why do non residents in Alaska have to have a guide to hunt there
Some states only offer permits to non residents if there are any left after permits after the draw.
SOME People who live in their perticular state help manage wildlife for their state Volintarely!
And to think they have to now deal with people leaving their trash behind at camp sites,and so much more B/S because USO guides want to profit and have equall rights in this state.Does USO VOLINTEER their times to youth hunters to try to make our children better hunters or sportsmans. do they donate money to our local organizations IE Arizona Deer Association or Arizona Elk Sociely, or Sheep Society ,Turkey ect... I think not.
Sportsman warehouse who I like, has the Balls enough to show and sell USO video's in the phx Az stores. What I hope will happen if USO wins the battle, AZ game & fish will hopefully and probably raise out of state tags 50% or more like some states do,Also you will have to buy a license to get a bonus point.and hopefully discurage out of state hunters (write more game and fish violations) what ever thay have to do is ok with me.

 

[Buckrub]

You wanna talk about "money-hungry", AZ. already makes non-residents buy a license, each year, in order to get a bonus point in the following year's draw. Do residents have to purchase a license to get a bonus point? At least, if they do, they can hunt with it in some capacity. Don't get me wrong, I believe state residents should have a distinct advantage in their state's draw process, but I do believe that the cap on non-residents is too restrictive. There has to be some "middle-of-the-road" that will satisfy all parties. x(

 

[RLH (Guest)]

warbird, in alaska you only need a guide for sheep, goat and coastal bears. and then it's more of a safety deal than anything else. sheep and goats are in country that can get snowed in, in a few hours and you best have someone experienced with the wild up there with ya. coastal bear hunters have to have a guide so they won't get ate. buckrub, that's the rules here. go somewhere else. it's real simple. every state has different rules, that's just the way it is. as it is, an Az. resident can't even plan on ever getting an early rifle bull tag. less than 1% chance for anyone. way less. uso has caused Az. residents a lot of heart burn. we've even had to alter our laws just to stop him from spotting with an airplane. something that a sportsman wouldn't do anyway. he's in court fighting the feds over it now. let Az. decide what Az. wants to do. we live with rules we don't like in other states. so far we've been able to pretty much keep the feds out of most decisions concerning our wildlife and do what we think is best. if georgy boy wins this, there ain't no tellin' what will be next.

 

[Bura Nut]

Muley62 makes a good point, lets get the info on who drew and what their address was. I believe all 5 of the non-res tags for 12A east were USO applicants. I dont have the numbers on total applications but USO does run up the odds of their clients drawing tags by the sheer number of applicants they submit. As for buying a tag to get a bonus point, like RLH said, dont buy it. The price of a non-res elk tag in AZ is alot less costly than Wy. or MT if I am not mistaken. USO will single handedly cost many of the members here alot of money because AZ will just hike the cost of non-res to reduce the demand.................... Thanks, Allen Taylor......

 

[Buckrub]

Bura, I buy the license, every year simply because I would,one day, love to get a chance to hunt those big AZ bulls!! It appears that the only remote chance of ever getting picked is to accumulate as many bonus points as possible. I buy it, but I still don't have to like it, right? If I never draw a tag, at least I will have made the effort!!!

 

[schmalts (Guest)]

USO SUCKS!! They are greedy, period. They are not fighting for Nonresident rights to draw a tag. This same ##### also pushed to get the law in NM that more nonres tags go to rich babies who need an outfitter than the real hunter who wants to go on his own. Why?? greed. Let the hunters just draw a tag equaly and get their babysitter afterwards, this outfitter preference is a far worst scandal and slap in the face to hunting ethics than the nonres cap anyday.

 

[Muley62 (Guest)]

The reason USO puts all those people in with their own address is so that AZ guides can't get ahold of the successful applicants, they want all of the guiding business to themselves.

 

[RLH (Guest)]

the reason uso does anything is $$$$$$$. plain and simple. if "helping" guys didn't make em money, georgy boy wouldn't do it. and i don't mean to piss anyone off when i tell folks to not apply for Az. if they don't like it. just statin' the way it is. every state has BS ways of doing some things that i don't like. i don't go there. but so far Az. has done ok without outside help. they could do things better and they could do more things for resident hunters than they seem to be willing to do, but they do ok. not great, not lousy, but ok. at least they won't sell ya an elk tag for a unit that doesn't have any elk, like new mex will. and a big part of the reason they do dumb stuff there is because they'bve bowed to uso. try and get a good tag through the draw there. just as bad a chance as Az. when it comes to elk, desert bighorn, pronghorn and trophy muley (as in kaibab), there isn't a better place to be than Az., if you can get a tag. like i've said before, i've had one Az. pronghorn and never had a sheep tag. so anyway, good luck to everyone in the draw, except of course the guys that use uso.

 

[Heat (Guest)]

Yes, Arizona residents have to purchase a license to accumulate bonus points as well. If you are a non-resident and choose to purchase a license, there are many other hunting opportunities that Arizona provides other than the bull elk hunts. Archery deer and turkey tags, general bear and lion tags are over the counter and there are many opportunities to hunt small game with just the license needed.

Something to keep in mind about USO and the lawsuit is they based their argument on the sale of non-edible parts of game, not the opportunity to recreate. Other federal courts have already decided that recreation is not part of the dormant commerce clause of the constitution. They only got as far as they have because of the bit about the hides, antlers, and ivories that they claim to make a living off of. As hunters we all know this is complete BS. This just shows how greedy USO is. This is not about George and his gang providing more opportunities for other non-residents to hunt, this is about how many more of his clients he can get drawn in Arizona to fatten his wallet even more. This makes me sick!

 

[rd (Guest)]

Maybe some of you guys should have backed SFW. they are an organization for the people and I doubt if they'd let this happen

 

[YollaBolly]

Sounds like a majority of you guys dislike ole Geo more than your hatred for Ryan, Kirk and other guides, outfitters and governor tag holders. As an outsider, this ole rich dude Geo, might get his arse kicked or his motor repaired if he steps foot in AZ. Loving your responses.

 

[Muley62 (Guest)]

RD: This is a civil lawsuit against the state of Arizona so there is nothing tha SFW could have done to stop it. It's not like they overpowered us, they are just using the court system like the animal rights extremist and environmentalist do. Don't you just love 'em.

 

[mossback]

LAST EDITED ON Jan-30-04 AT 02:04PM (MST)[p]se next post

 

[mossback]

>On the application there is a
>box that ask if you
>want to donate your money
>to the Game and Fish
>Dept of Arizona if you
>don't get drawn for the
>hunt of your choice. To
>me, I call that EQUAL
>since it been 9 years
>since I got a elk
>tag



my write up was for WHAT A JOKE (GUEST)

 

[AZBuckSnort]

Residents of AZ must also purchase a license to secure a bonus point.

 

[txhunter58]

I suspect that not limiting nonresidents will backfire, as Buranut has said: THEY WILL JUST RAISE PRICES THAT MUCH MORE AND WEED MORE OF US OUT WITH THE COST.

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)