USFS and BLM
- Thread starter BenHuntn
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SouthernWyo
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Brilliant
The key is that it isn't the state's land, it is federal land. Thus managed by federal agencies. My observation is that, as with different states themselves, there is some variation in how well USFS and BLM manages the land from region to region. I've spoken with a number of forest service employees are as fed up and frustrated with restrictions, limits, and micro-managment from elsewhere relative to management of the forests where they live and work as we are with some of it.
BenHuntn
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LAST EDITED ON Apr-12-12 AT 05:39PM (MST)[p]I have no trust in the Federal Gov. no matter what they do. The worker bee's are not to blame. It is management that is screwed up. Just like the USFWS. I have no confidence in the USFS or BLM with regards to wildland fire control. They just manage fires and don't aggresively fight them. They are bogged down with policies and procedures that inhibit thier ability to do the job effectively.
BenHuntn
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The Management of fires. The Incident Command Teams. That's what I am referring to. I agree that fire is good for wildlife, however, monitoring a fire when it is small instead of putting it out sometimes backfires (no pun intended) and they the USFS ends up spending millions of tax payer dollars to "manage the fire" when the weather changes and makes it impossible to control till the weather changes back.
BenHuntn
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LAST EDITED ON Apr-12-12 AT 09:23PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Apr-12-12 AT 09:09?PM (MST)
Do we need the US Forest Service?
by Jonathan DuHamel on Nov. 07, 2011, under Politics
We have two major federal agencies that manage federal land, the U.S. Forest Service (USFS) under the Agriculture Department and the Bureau of Land Management (BLM) under the Interior Department. Why do we need both agencies? As far as I can tell the BLM does everything USFS does and more. It seems that one of these agencies is redundant.
The USFS manages 193 million acres of federal land using over 30,000 employees and a budget (FY 2011) of $5.38 billion. That works out to $27.87 per acre managed, $179,333 per employee, and 6,433 acres per employee.
The BLM manages 245 million surface acres, as well as 700 million acres of subsurface mineral estate, with about 10,000 employees, and a budget (FY 2011) of $1.1 billion. That works out to $4,49 per acre or counting mineral estate, $1.16 per acre managed, $110,000 per employee, and 24,500 acres per employee or counting mineral estate 94,500 acres per employee.
Maybe looking at just these numbers is not a fair comparison, but it is suggestive that we are getting more for our tax dollars with the BLM.
Both agencies manage theoretically for multiple use, including mining, logging, grazing and recreation. Both agencies manage forests and sell timber. USFS timber production has dramatically decreased since a peak in the 1980s due in part to the environmental quagmire of law suits and regulations. (See table and graph here.) I can't find similar figures for the BLM.
The BLM manages the subsurface mineral rights under National Forests. Mining claims located on a National Forest must be registered with the BLM not the USFS. Exploration and mining are subject to 36 CFR 228(A) for USFS land or to 43 CFR 3809 for BLM land. Why two separate sets of regulations for the same activity?
The Department of the Interior includes the Bureau of Indian Affairs, Bureau of Land Management, Bureau of Ocean Energy Management, Bureau of Reclamation, Bureau of Safety and Environmental Enforcement, National Park Service, Office of Surface Mining, Reclamation and Enforcement, U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, and the U.S. Geological Survey. It would seem to be the logical agency to manage the National Forests.
I propose that the USFS be eliminated and its duties merged into the BLM in the Interior Department. That may result in more efficient management of our National Forests and elimination of a redundant bureaucracy.
Reorganization is justifiable solely on grounds of efficiency and economics, but there are other considerations. While the BLM has its faults (due mainly to the current Secretary of the Interior), it is generally easier to work with and approaches things on a more pragmatic and scientific basis. USFS seems to be guided by eco-extremist doctrine and anti-public attitude.
Even better would be for the feds to turn all national forests over to the states and let them manage the forests according to the local needs and philosophy
He took the words from my mouth. Environmentalist Ben Huntn
Do we need the US Forest Service?
by Jonathan DuHamel on Nov. 07, 2011, under Politics
We have two major federal agencies that manage federal land, the U.S. Forest Service (USFS) under the Agriculture Department and the Bureau of Land Management (BLM) under the Interior Department. Why do we need both agencies? As far as I can tell the BLM does everything USFS does and more. It seems that one of these agencies is redundant.
The USFS manages 193 million acres of federal land using over 30,000 employees and a budget (FY 2011) of $5.38 billion. That works out to $27.87 per acre managed, $179,333 per employee, and 6,433 acres per employee.
The BLM manages 245 million surface acres, as well as 700 million acres of subsurface mineral estate, with about 10,000 employees, and a budget (FY 2011) of $1.1 billion. That works out to $4,49 per acre or counting mineral estate, $1.16 per acre managed, $110,000 per employee, and 24,500 acres per employee or counting mineral estate 94,500 acres per employee.
Maybe looking at just these numbers is not a fair comparison, but it is suggestive that we are getting more for our tax dollars with the BLM.
Both agencies manage theoretically for multiple use, including mining, logging, grazing and recreation. Both agencies manage forests and sell timber. USFS timber production has dramatically decreased since a peak in the 1980s due in part to the environmental quagmire of law suits and regulations. (See table and graph here.) I can't find similar figures for the BLM.
The BLM manages the subsurface mineral rights under National Forests. Mining claims located on a National Forest must be registered with the BLM not the USFS. Exploration and mining are subject to 36 CFR 228(A) for USFS land or to 43 CFR 3809 for BLM land. Why two separate sets of regulations for the same activity?
The Department of the Interior includes the Bureau of Indian Affairs, Bureau of Land Management, Bureau of Ocean Energy Management, Bureau of Reclamation, Bureau of Safety and Environmental Enforcement, National Park Service, Office of Surface Mining, Reclamation and Enforcement, U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, and the U.S. Geological Survey. It would seem to be the logical agency to manage the National Forests.
I propose that the USFS be eliminated and its duties merged into the BLM in the Interior Department. That may result in more efficient management of our National Forests and elimination of a redundant bureaucracy.
Reorganization is justifiable solely on grounds of efficiency and economics, but there are other considerations. While the BLM has its faults (due mainly to the current Secretary of the Interior), it is generally easier to work with and approaches things on a more pragmatic and scientific basis. USFS seems to be guided by eco-extremist doctrine and anti-public attitude.
Even better would be for the feds to turn all national forests over to the states and let them manage the forests according to the local needs and philosophy
He took the words from my mouth. Environmentalist Ben Huntn
BuzzH
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Benhuntn,
You actually call that research?
Thats an article written by someone nearly as clueless as you are.
Try reading up on the history of the USFS and the BLM and what each actually manages...for starters.
That article is a real beauty...his definition of "multiple use" is perhaps the biggest "gem" revealed. Grazing, mining, logging...true "multiple use" doctrine.
Funny he never referenced MUSYA, NFMA, WA, RPA, etc. not to mention even clearly defining multiple use.
The second best "gem" is giving federal lands to the states...WOW!
You actually call that research?
Thats an article written by someone nearly as clueless as you are.
Try reading up on the history of the USFS and the BLM and what each actually manages...for starters.
That article is a real beauty...his definition of "multiple use" is perhaps the biggest "gem" revealed. Grazing, mining, logging...true "multiple use" doctrine.
Funny he never referenced MUSYA, NFMA, WA, RPA, etc. not to mention even clearly defining multiple use.
The second best "gem" is giving federal lands to the states...WOW!
BenHuntn
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LAST EDITED ON Apr-13-12 AT 08:14AM (MST)[p]Now ladies don't get your panties in bind. These are just opinions of people. My opinion of the USFS is just that my opinion. I worked for and next to the USFS for 32 years in wildland fire control and in my oppinion they don't compare to a real wildland fire fighting agency. They kill way too many fire fighters. They do not aggressively attack fires. They always send too little equipment too late and waste millions of dollars
trying to put the fire out. The USFS is a joke to a real firefighting department. Example for Lloyd: Mann Gulch Fire 13 dead. South Canyon Fire 14 Dead, Cramer Fire 2 Dead. and the list goes on.
trying to put the fire out. The USFS is a joke to a real firefighting department. Example for Lloyd: Mann Gulch Fire 13 dead. South Canyon Fire 14 Dead, Cramer Fire 2 Dead. and the list goes on.
SouthernWyo
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After decades of implementing full suppression policies on every wildfire throughout the west, federal and state fire management agencies are FINALLY on track by managing wildfires for resource benefit. Specific to Wyoming, during the last decade or so, there have been many wildfires which were "managed" for resource benefit rather than fully suppressed, sometimes over a several months, which were spectacular successes.
The incident management team system is an example of government doing things right, and has been copied throughout the world of emergency incident response.
With all due respect (and I do mean that quite literally), you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
The incident management team system is an example of government doing things right, and has been copied throughout the world of emergency incident response.
With all due respect (and I do mean that quite literally), you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
BuzzH
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I worked for and next to the USFS for 32 years in wildland fire control and in my oppinion they don't compare to a real wildland fire fighting agency. They kill way too many fire fighters. They do not aggressively attack fires. They always send too little equipment too late and waste millions of dollars
trying to put the fire out. The USFS is a joke to a real firefighting department. Example for Lloyd: Mann Gulch Fire 13 dead. South Canyon Fire 14 Dead, Cramer Fire 2 Dead. and the list goes on.
Let me get this straight.
1. USFS doesnt fight fire agressively enough...yet kills firefighters doing exactly that.
2. They have too little equipment to fight wildlife fires.
3. There are better "real" fire fighting agencies out there.
I just wonder how anyone with even one firing brain cell (pun there), could draw those conclusions based on the success of the USFS and wildlife fire fighting.
I can assure you that Mann Gulch and South Canyon happened mainly because $hit happens when you have unpredictable fire, weather, and aggressive suppression combined with 100 years of fuels building. Has nothing to do with lack of equipment, lack of knowledge, lack of skills, lack of training, or responding too late. I've fought more than my fair share of fire, at a minimum, and I can tell you the only difference between attending a funeral and being the one in a casket comes down to luck. If I would have been on the Mann Gulch fire, or South Canyon fire...I'd of done exactly what those guys did, and thats a given. They fought fire aggressively, like always, and bad things happened, the worst thing happened. I'll spare your ignorant a$$ the suspense...its going to happen again, for more reasons than you're capable of comprehending.
There is no other wildland fire fighting agency anywhere that has the equipment, skills, and successful history of the USFS...flat doesnt exist. Any agency that fights fire for that long will have bad days, bad situations, and also fatalities, just the way it is. Benhuntn, perhaps you can name the agency that has done a better job.
I also find it difficult to believe you were ever more than a mopshot in the realm of wildland fire fighting. I've worked with and for the best in the business, and not one I know would talk out of their a$$ like you have here. You, and your comments, are a disgrace to those that really have lived it, breathed it, and unfortunately died for it.
Not only are you out in the weeds with your "opinions"...you're out of line.
trying to put the fire out. The USFS is a joke to a real firefighting department. Example for Lloyd: Mann Gulch Fire 13 dead. South Canyon Fire 14 Dead, Cramer Fire 2 Dead. and the list goes on.
Let me get this straight.
1. USFS doesnt fight fire agressively enough...yet kills firefighters doing exactly that.
2. They have too little equipment to fight wildlife fires.
3. There are better "real" fire fighting agencies out there.
I just wonder how anyone with even one firing brain cell (pun there), could draw those conclusions based on the success of the USFS and wildlife fire fighting.
I can assure you that Mann Gulch and South Canyon happened mainly because $hit happens when you have unpredictable fire, weather, and aggressive suppression combined with 100 years of fuels building. Has nothing to do with lack of equipment, lack of knowledge, lack of skills, lack of training, or responding too late. I've fought more than my fair share of fire, at a minimum, and I can tell you the only difference between attending a funeral and being the one in a casket comes down to luck. If I would have been on the Mann Gulch fire, or South Canyon fire...I'd of done exactly what those guys did, and thats a given. They fought fire aggressively, like always, and bad things happened, the worst thing happened. I'll spare your ignorant a$$ the suspense...its going to happen again, for more reasons than you're capable of comprehending.
There is no other wildland fire fighting agency anywhere that has the equipment, skills, and successful history of the USFS...flat doesnt exist. Any agency that fights fire for that long will have bad days, bad situations, and also fatalities, just the way it is. Benhuntn, perhaps you can name the agency that has done a better job.
I also find it difficult to believe you were ever more than a mopshot in the realm of wildland fire fighting. I've worked with and for the best in the business, and not one I know would talk out of their a$$ like you have here. You, and your comments, are a disgrace to those that really have lived it, breathed it, and unfortunately died for it.
Not only are you out in the weeds with your "opinions"...you're out of line.
Chesterwyo
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I don't have a dog in this fight but I am confident that I speak for more than myself when I say the following. Topgun you really need to pull your nose out of buzz's a$$. Your rah rah rants that you spew out every time he posts anything is beyond annoying. Truthfully I wouldn't be suprised if he is tired of it himself. I understand that your opinions may be in line with his on a lot of things but give it a rest.
tx_packmule
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Our national forests are managed well with a little help from Texas forest service. They have had a few fires get onto them this past yr from private land, but got them out pdq. The wildlife isn't managed worth a flip within them though, with the exception of Hagerman (would be a good application for you out of towners to put in for). In WY I see a lot of bug kills not getting taken care of.
Chesterwyo (569 posts)
Apr-13-12, 06:16 PM (MST)16. "RE: USFS and BLM"
I don't have a dog in this fight but I am confident that I speak for more than myself when I say the following. Topgun you really need to pull your nose out of buzz's a$$. Your rah rah rants that you spew out every time he posts anything is beyond annoying. Truthfully I wouldn't be suprised if he is tired of it himself. I understand that your opinions may be in line with his on a lot of things but give it a rest.
Since when can't a person post that they agree with someone? I will continue to post when I agree with BuzzH, just like I do with mnay other members that I agree with. If I don't agree with them, then I will also post accordingly, just like I did when I disagreed with BuzzH on the stance Wyoming was taking on the wolf issue. Sorry, but that's the way it will remain and there's nothing forcing you to read what is posted by any particular member.
Apr-13-12, 06:16 PM (MST)16. "RE: USFS and BLM"
I don't have a dog in this fight but I am confident that I speak for more than myself when I say the following. Topgun you really need to pull your nose out of buzz's a$$. Your rah rah rants that you spew out every time he posts anything is beyond annoying. Truthfully I wouldn't be suprised if he is tired of it himself. I understand that your opinions may be in line with his on a lot of things but give it a rest.
Since when can't a person post that they agree with someone? I will continue to post when I agree with BuzzH, just like I do with mnay other members that I agree with. If I don't agree with them, then I will also post accordingly, just like I did when I disagreed with BuzzH on the stance Wyoming was taking on the wolf issue. Sorry, but that's the way it will remain and there's nothing forcing you to read what is posted by any particular member.
BuzzH
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Benhuntn,
Comes as no shock you've never put a pair of whites on the ground on a wildland fire and have never cut a single inch of fireline.
I knew that from your first post...if only obviously.
Never did catch the name of that other "agency" that has more success in wildland firefighting than the USFS, whats wrong, cat got your tongue?
As to South Canyon and Mann Gulch Fires, I know more about them than you ever will, and you can take that to the bank. A close friend of mine was the FS liason that investigated the Mann Gulch fire with N. Maclean for his book recounting what happned there. He knows more about that fire than anyone alive, and I've been privy to details regarding same, that you wont read in a book or in a fire report.
My friends son, who was also best man at my wedding, was on the South Canyon fire the day the fatalities happened. In late August of 1994, my friend and I went on a backpacking/fishing trip into the Bighole country of Montana on a couple of the few days we had off that year. We discussed that fire at length. As far as I know, my friend has never discussed or talked about that day, and what he saw, with anyone else. I've never spoken of it again with him either, and likely never will.
What I find outrageous about your posts here, is that you pretend to have answers to what happened, why it happened, and somehow think the Agency or the prople fighting those fires were "stupid, stupid, stupid".
I personally worked with 2 of the people that died on South Canyon. They werent stupid, they had a ton of experience and knowledge of wildland fire fighting that would rival anyone elses past or present. They were fine woodsmen all the way around.
They fell victim to the unpredictability of fire, and it will happen again to other fine woodsmen as well. Its the nature of the beast, and with 100 years of the most successful wildland fire fighting in the history of the world, comes the lumps, warts, and everything else.
It sad that we have the Monday morning quarterbacks like yourself pretending to have all the answers to things you've never done. Its spineless of you to second guess and degrade those that made decisions and were in the arena...while you sat in the cheap seats.
I think you need to find a clue...if thats possible.
Congratulations?
Comes as no shock you've never put a pair of whites on the ground on a wildland fire and have never cut a single inch of fireline.
I knew that from your first post...if only obviously.
Never did catch the name of that other "agency" that has more success in wildland firefighting than the USFS, whats wrong, cat got your tongue?
As to South Canyon and Mann Gulch Fires, I know more about them than you ever will, and you can take that to the bank. A close friend of mine was the FS liason that investigated the Mann Gulch fire with N. Maclean for his book recounting what happned there. He knows more about that fire than anyone alive, and I've been privy to details regarding same, that you wont read in a book or in a fire report.
My friends son, who was also best man at my wedding, was on the South Canyon fire the day the fatalities happened. In late August of 1994, my friend and I went on a backpacking/fishing trip into the Bighole country of Montana on a couple of the few days we had off that year. We discussed that fire at length. As far as I know, my friend has never discussed or talked about that day, and what he saw, with anyone else. I've never spoken of it again with him either, and likely never will.
What I find outrageous about your posts here, is that you pretend to have answers to what happened, why it happened, and somehow think the Agency or the prople fighting those fires were "stupid, stupid, stupid".
I personally worked with 2 of the people that died on South Canyon. They werent stupid, they had a ton of experience and knowledge of wildland fire fighting that would rival anyone elses past or present. They were fine woodsmen all the way around.
They fell victim to the unpredictability of fire, and it will happen again to other fine woodsmen as well. Its the nature of the beast, and with 100 years of the most successful wildland fire fighting in the history of the world, comes the lumps, warts, and everything else.
It sad that we have the Monday morning quarterbacks like yourself pretending to have all the answers to things you've never done. Its spineless of you to second guess and degrade those that made decisions and were in the arena...while you sat in the cheap seats.
I think you need to find a clue...if thats possible.
Congratulations?
S
ShowThemToMe
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I can plainly see you two are gonna need a room!
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PleaseDear
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F'k me---I actually have read thru this.....
Robb
Robb
eelgrass
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Since TOPGUN actually posted Chesterwyo's post total (569 posts), it probably should also be noted that Cesterwyo has been here longer than most everyone. That fact is at least as relevant as his number of posts.
The USFS does nothing well. They can't even log timber that was given to them and make a profit. It's a net loss. They never have been able to make money at it. How inefficient is that? A private land owner buys the land and logs it under the strictest rules and regulations and still makes a profit. But not the FS.
"National Forest timber programs are losing money?lots of money. The USFS timber program lost about 200 million dollars nationwide in Fiscal Year 1995 according to official government calculations. The WMNF timber program lost about $1.6 million ($763/acre cut) and the smaller GMNF program lost about $685,000 ($576/acre cut) after all payments and expenses were paid in Fiscal Year 1995 according to agency data."
http://www.forestwatch.org/content.php?id=46
Eel
The USFS does nothing well. They can't even log timber that was given to them and make a profit. It's a net loss. They never have been able to make money at it. How inefficient is that? A private land owner buys the land and logs it under the strictest rules and regulations and still makes a profit. But not the FS.
"National Forest timber programs are losing money?lots of money. The USFS timber program lost about 200 million dollars nationwide in Fiscal Year 1995 according to official government calculations. The WMNF timber program lost about $1.6 million ($763/acre cut) and the smaller GMNF program lost about $685,000 ($576/acre cut) after all payments and expenses were paid in Fiscal Year 1995 according to agency data."
http://www.forestwatch.org/content.php?id=46
Eel
eelgrass---What does post count have to do with anything. All I did was copy his entire post as a quote and pasted it into mine. Normally when you do that you don't start deleting certain things, but leave what you C/Pd in it's 100% state as a quote, which is what I did. I didn't even notice a post count until reading your post a minute ago referencing it.
BuzzH
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The USFS does nothing well. They can't even log timber that was given to them and make a profit. It's a net loss. They never have been able to make money at it. How inefficient is that? A private land owner buys the land and logs it under the strictest rules and regulations and still makes a profit. But not the FS.
Thats just not being truthful.
Any agency or private landowner that was forced to log under the same regulations, acts, and rules as the USFS would lose the same amount of money, if not more.
If private industry had to log with regard to BMP's, NEPA, NFMA, RPA, etc. they'd lose money as well, just a simple fact. Its not the fault of the FS that these laws, acts and regulations were implemented. The public sets policy via congress. The FS is not to blame for any of the policies they are forced to adhere to, they didnt pass any of it. They're just required to meet the requirements of the existing law, which comes with a high price tag. If you want to blame someone, write your congressmen/senators. They're the ones that passed the legislation.
It costs money to write EA's, EIS's, etc. Combine all these requirements with the fact that every anti-logging group in the country can file lawsuits based on total BS, with little to no flesh in the game...no doubt any landowner, company, or agency would have no chance of showing a profit.
One frivilous lawsuit will destroy any kind of profit that could have been made.
Thats just not being truthful.
Any agency or private landowner that was forced to log under the same regulations, acts, and rules as the USFS would lose the same amount of money, if not more.
If private industry had to log with regard to BMP's, NEPA, NFMA, RPA, etc. they'd lose money as well, just a simple fact. Its not the fault of the FS that these laws, acts and regulations were implemented. The public sets policy via congress. The FS is not to blame for any of the policies they are forced to adhere to, they didnt pass any of it. They're just required to meet the requirements of the existing law, which comes with a high price tag. If you want to blame someone, write your congressmen/senators. They're the ones that passed the legislation.
It costs money to write EA's, EIS's, etc. Combine all these requirements with the fact that every anti-logging group in the country can file lawsuits based on total BS, with little to no flesh in the game...no doubt any landowner, company, or agency would have no chance of showing a profit.
One frivilous lawsuit will destroy any kind of profit that could have been made.
D
D13er
Guest
LAST EDITED ON Apr-14-12 AT 06:03PM (MST)[p]
So true...the USFS is just wonderful...people that refer to them as the US forest circus just don't appreciate them and should be shot......of course it sucks to be thought of as a "clown"..right Lloyd???
JB
So true...the USFS is just wonderful...people that refer to them as the US forest circus just don't appreciate them and should be shot......of course it sucks to be thought of as a "clown"..right Lloyd???
JB
M
MULEY204
Guest
I GOTTA STRANGE FEELING BENHUNTIN WAS WEARING WHITES WHEN BUZZ WAS STILL $HITTIN YELLOW.
JUST CURIOUS IF BUZZ"S RANK IS ABOVE OR BELOW A FIRE CAPTAIN ??
BY THE WAY HE TALKS I FIGURE HIM TO HAVE THE RANK OF KING....
I WONDER WHO HAS WORN OUT MORE PAIRS OF WHITES FIGHTING FIRES..
SOMEONE HERE NEEDS TO BE FITTED FOR A 4XL ASSHAT
JUST STIRRIN
JUST CURIOUS IF BUZZ"S RANK IS ABOVE OR BELOW A FIRE CAPTAIN ??
BY THE WAY HE TALKS I FIGURE HIM TO HAVE THE RANK OF KING....
I WONDER WHO HAS WORN OUT MORE PAIRS OF WHITES FIGHTING FIRES..
SOMEONE HERE NEEDS TO BE FITTED FOR A 4XL ASSHAT
JUST STIRRIN
BuzzH
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LAST EDITED ON Apr-14-12 AT 07:43PM (MST)[p]Let me think about that for a couple seconds.
In the last month I've worked 16 days on the Arizona Strip, checking out all kinds of cool stuff. Spent this last week working in South Central Wyoming in deer units 101 and 102.
I'll get to spend the rest of the field season in Wyoming and Idaho.
Its rough getting paid to do what others have to pay to do.
From a couple weeks ago on the strip.
Kelly Point Area:
Mount Trumbell area:
The cool thing about working in the field every day, never know what you'll find or what will happen:
A few of my "office" views in the church from a few years ago:
Work transportation into the church:
Transportation into the Crags:
If I can get paid to spend time outdoors...I'll take the clown label all day long...and greedily.
Even better is my job allows me 6-8 weeks a year of paid time off to hunt...thats a rough one, but I manage.
muley204, if benhuntin's claims are true...he may have me by a few years. I fought a ton of fire from 1987-1994, 4 of those years were about as bad as it gets. I saw and experienced just about everything in the fire world, major blowups, fatalities, close calls, gobblers, you name it. To continue was a dead end, although the 20 year retirement would have been nice. The bitterness that benhuntn has shown here is typical of those that stayed in too long...seen it many times.
I'm glad I did it, wouldnt trade the experiences and glad to say I worked with the best.
Moved on to better jobs, no doubt about that.
In the last month I've worked 16 days on the Arizona Strip, checking out all kinds of cool stuff. Spent this last week working in South Central Wyoming in deer units 101 and 102.
I'll get to spend the rest of the field season in Wyoming and Idaho.
Its rough getting paid to do what others have to pay to do.
From a couple weeks ago on the strip.
Kelly Point Area:
Mount Trumbell area:
The cool thing about working in the field every day, never know what you'll find or what will happen:
A few of my "office" views in the church from a few years ago:
Work transportation into the church:
Transportation into the Crags:
If I can get paid to spend time outdoors...I'll take the clown label all day long...and greedily.
Even better is my job allows me 6-8 weeks a year of paid time off to hunt...thats a rough one, but I manage.
muley204, if benhuntin's claims are true...he may have me by a few years. I fought a ton of fire from 1987-1994, 4 of those years were about as bad as it gets. I saw and experienced just about everything in the fire world, major blowups, fatalities, close calls, gobblers, you name it. To continue was a dead end, although the 20 year retirement would have been nice. The bitterness that benhuntn has shown here is typical of those that stayed in too long...seen it many times.
I'm glad I did it, wouldnt trade the experiences and glad to say I worked with the best.
Moved on to better jobs, no doubt about that.
one_dryboot
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LAST EDITED ON Apr-14-12 AT 07:44PM (MST)[p]Buzz H,
How do you walk on your own??? With one foot in your mouth, and the other, in your Ass?
How do you walk on your own??? With one foot in your mouth, and the other, in your Ass?
D
D13er
Guest
...no doubt that lawsuits are a huge part....the tree hugging upper crust of the USFS is great at making decisions purposly to draw a lawsuit, then their favorite treehugging groups get funded by more of OUR tax dollars as a result of losing and paying all the groups legal fees....it's a beautiful and ingenious scam...
JB
JB
D
D13er
Guest
>IMO, all legal fees, regardless of
>outcome of trials, should be
>paid by each side.
>
>The frivilous lawsuits would come to
>a screeching halt.
>
>The way the system works now,
>the only winners are the
>scum-sucking attorneys.
....and the upper crust USFS thugs getting their special envelopes...
JB
>outcome of trials, should be
>paid by each side.
>
>The frivilous lawsuits would come to
>a screeching halt.
>
>The way the system works now,
>the only winners are the
>scum-sucking attorneys.
....and the upper crust USFS thugs getting their special envelopes...
JB
wolfhunter
Active Member
- Messages
- 434
Chesterwyo,
You are certainly not alone in your observations of TOPGUN... It's bad enough I would not be surprised if "TOPGUN" aka "BUZZ'S LAP DOG" has a tattoo of Buzzard on his A$$!!!! LAUGH'N.....
You are certainly not alone in your observations of TOPGUN... It's bad enough I would not be surprised if "TOPGUN" aka "BUZZ'S LAP DOG" has a tattoo of Buzzard on his A$$!!!! LAUGH'N.....
wolfhunter
Active Member
- Messages
- 434
STILL LAUGH'N...........................
wolfhunter
Active Member
- Messages
- 434
LAUGH'N EVEN LOUDER...... Is that the best you can come up without Buzzards help!! Maybe he will PM you something to say TOPGUN...
M
MULEY204
Guest
Beautiful photos, Thanks for sharing
Wyoming Hunting Guides & Outfitters
Urge 2 Hunt
We focus on trophy elk, mule deer, antelope and moose hunts and take B&C bucks most years.
