UNIT 45 DOE HUNT

[OLDHORNHUNTER]

Hey was just wondering if anyone has heard how this awesome Game Management hunt is doing in 45 ??? WOW I bet those deer are having a real hard time finding any food with this HARSH winter we are having & all the DEEP SNOW I bet they are just dropping dead all over the place !!! Way to go F&G AGAIN !!!!

 

[destroyer350]

This would be the perfect year to get rid of all late draw hunts, buck and doe, any hunts after the 31 of Oct in units that have a general season. Some of these units need to recover deer numbers period, not give people drive-by shootings!

 

[HayZeus]

I can tell you that there are alot of gut piles around that shouldnt be here.I have talked to most of the hunters that I run across and most have no idea why this hunt isnt a good idea.Talk about a road hunters paradise.

 

[Yoyak]

I heard a couple stories of people being busted shooting bucks. Not spikes or two points, Mature deer! Way to go Fish and Game. These losers would have been sitting at home doing nothing, but F&G gave them a reason to carry a weapon on the winter range. No late hunts in trophy units period!

 

[jetsled]

Dear Fish and Game:

Way to go. Pat yourselves on the back for decimating our unit 45/43/39 deer herd for years to come. You jumped to conclusions and we have had no weather, you should consider yourselves POACHERS. Thanks again for "managing," our herds to the best of your ability.

Yours Truly,
Jetsled

 

[brymoore]

Are temperatures at night in the teens weather? I'm sure it's providing stress to the deer. 40k acres of winter feed is gone. The deer are on the winter range trying to survive with less feed, snow or no snow.

I'd rather have IDF&G be proactive now than reactive later to a larger die off this spring.

 

[Yoyak]

It's a big unit man; 831,836 acres to be exact. Lets just say the lower 1/3 is winter range (I think its probably more like 45% because the eastern portion the winter range extends a little higher in the unit, but the parts near the freeway are basically antelope country that the deer don't use much so we'll settle on a 1/3) or 277,278 acres. Sure 40k acres hurts, but hardly justifies this move as proactive; reactive seems more accurate. Its like if you had gangrene on your fingertip so you cut off your whole arm. Proactive would be to cut off the finger, reactive is cutting off the whole arm.

 

[MULEY204]

NOW IS THE TIME TO REBUILD OUR BIG GAME HERDS !!!

HOW MANY DEER DO YOU TAKE OUT OF THE HERD IN A 5 YEAR PERIOD, WITH ONE ANTLERLESS HUNT WITH 500 TAGS ?????

 

[jetsled]

Well said Yoyak.

Apparently your not that familiar with the camas prairie temps. Temps in the teens is considered to be balmy. It's not un-common for temps this time of year to be in the single digits or below 0.

 

[HayZeus]

For those of you who dont know much about this unit to claim that the deer that winter here used the 40 thousand acres that burned are very very misinformed.This is a very mild winter so far and the normal temps that we are having never have decimated the deer herd like this hunt definatly is doing.There is enough winter range for all the deer and more with what winter ground we have unburned.Idaho Fish and Game wears a FAKE CROWN.

 

[greatbasin]

Last time I was in 45, lots of deer were hanging below the burn on rangeland with very little feed, because it burned off 15 months ago. The only thing on this land is dry seed grass and cheat...nothing to eat or to use as cover. The only reason they're staying there is because of the huge alfalfa pivot on the other side of the old hwy.

I saw three groups cross the road in about 30 minutes time. A doe and three yearlings were almost whacked...any fog or inclement weather and those deer probably would have been hit.

I really don't have a dog in this fight, I'm just posting my observations on a small portion of the unit. I will say it was a bit of a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation for F&G.

 

[jetsled]

Did you not take the time to read Yoyak's post??

You say you don't have a dog in this fight but then say I quote:
"I will say it was a bit of a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation for F&G".

There is no damned if you do, damned if you don't scenario on the table. It was as Yoyak so wisely said "reactive." There are deer off Warm Springs Ave. in Boise that cross the road every night to get to a alfalfa pivot. That means absolutely nothing, deer and alfalfa are like birds to a bird feeder, there could be 1,000,000 acres of prime winter range and your going to have deer trying to get to an alfalfa field. Idaho Fish and Game blew it on these two doe hunts and it's a shame ALL of us can't see it.

 

[huntfish714]

+1 Brymoore +1 great basin. Better safe then sorry....damned either way... Atleasy trying/doing something about a situation. So IF January- February we get record snow fall and thousands die will you scalled f&g for not having enough doe tags? Harsh winter doesn't always mean deep snow and low temps it has to do more with starvation (the length of the winter and the amount of time plants stay dormant), does anyone else see this point? Deer rarely if ever freeze to death but starve every year.

 

[idhunters]

Somebody better tell those deer that are hitting the alfalfa fields that the only thing they can eat during the winter is native feed.

Better chase them onto the winter range where they are supposed to be, so they can get shot, so they won't die of starvation.

 

[jetsled]

You nailed it Huntfish714, IF. Main word IF. What IF we don't? I see what your trying to say, but when we still have over a 1/4 million acres of wintering ground not sure I agree with your statement.

"Better safe then sorry," How are damned either way, if the fire burned 30-40-50-60% of the wintering ground you're probably right, but like I have said in other posts, deer are survivors. Animals in general are survivors. Give them a chance. Hunters and let me say that again, HUNTERS wouldn't stoop to the level of hunting does in December on the winter range. If you drew that tag and your reading this, I'm calling you out for being greedy, selfish, and a real class act. Good luck on your hunt and do me a favor, turn your heater on high, wear a fluffy set of new slippers, and after you plunk one off the side mirror, look at yourself in that same mirror, smile, and say I'm the man/woman!

 

[brymoore]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-21-11 AT 04:50PM (MST)[p]We all want the best possible outcome for the herds.

I live in the Rte 21 corridor of Unit 39 and watched what happened to the deer last year. We had an early snow in November but the south slopes melted and provided good feed through the rest of the winter. I chukar hunt hard and saw thousands of deer but only one sick deer by the end of winter.

We all know what happened last year with the die off. I didn't start finding dead deer until May. I have returned to my chukar slopes to find intact skeltons from last spring. In my conversations with biologists, they say the deer died because of the lack of feed in November. They weren't able to eat enough the rest of the winter to overcome the deficit from November. They died in the spring due to poor condidion.

My concern is that the reduction of feed could have a similar effect in Unit 45. Instead of 500 or so deer being killed now, the reduction in total feed might kill 2,000 (or whatever it might be) plus animals later in the spring.

I'll string along with F&G. They're the professionals in this debate.

 

[beavis14]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-21-11 AT 03:18PM (MST)[p]amazing how some attack and call out their fellow hunters much like peta does. but whats the difference to the stickflippers who hunt 39 in the "wintering ground " probably more deer get " stuck " and lost by slob, hail mary shootin' stick flippers ( not good archers ! ) then will get shot in 45.

i don't want all the deer shot either, but go after the f &g not the guys looking for meat. who knows what will happen next month or two snow wise. i stand in the middle on this , tipped a bit to the f & g.

 

[OLDHORNHUNTER]

we sportsman want the best for our herds..how can killing 500 does because we MAY have a BAD winter be GOOD game management??? I spoke with both the biologists & the game wardens in charge of the western units 31 32 32a 22 etc the bio over here said the reason there was a 100% winter mortality was due to the late snows NOT because they didnt have food to eat in Nov or Dec !!! 2 different opinions.. the warden has said several times these western units need to be shut down completely for the deer & cow elk or be changed to draw only for a few years for the herds to rebuild..& when I asked so why dont they !!! he says THEY WONT because of the lost revenue & the local Nampa Boise hunters they would loose !!! So there is NO way I am buying the F&G are looking out for our herds BS !!! I also asked the biologist in the Magic Valley office why they were planning this hunt & was told they were "GUESSING" that alot of these animals would die due to the burned off area & the DEEP SNOWS !!! I also asked the same guy ..so why dont u handle it like the depredation hunts & he said that would not work ?? Horse ChiT !!! they dont have a damn clue..in my opinion it would be a hell of alot easier to have handled this hunt more like a depredation hunt if the animals were in trouble !!!

 

[Yoyak]

4863 Controlled hunt apps @ $6.25 each= $30393.75 Plus 19.75*500=$9875. Thats $40,268.75 in Revenue for F&G. Fish and Game is just like any other business, at the end of the year you have a pretty good idea of where your annual revenue is going to end up. If you are running a little low on revenue why not have a year end blow out sale.

As for the 100% fawn mortality last year; isn't that based on the survival rate of just the deer that were collared? Maybe they are putting on the collars too tight because I saw a BUNCH of spikes and forkies this fall that I know where fawns last winter. Obviously I'm kidding about the tight collars but I saw just as many if not more yearling bucks this fall, than I usually do. They didn't all die.

 

[IDdesertman]

I'm pretty sure $40,000 doesn't even amount to a drop into the bucket of the overall budget issues the F&G is dealing with right now.

 

[MULEY204]

I HEARD THE DOE HUNT COVERS THE WHOLE UNIT. IF THIS IS TRUE , TELL ME HOW WHACKING A DOE AT THE OTHER END OF THE UNIT BENIFITS THE DEER WINTERING IN THE BURN AREA.

ALSO ARE THE DOE KILLERS LOOKING FOR A SKINNY SICK DOE OR FAWN OR ARE THEY WANTING A NICE BIG FAT IN HER PRIME BREEDING DOE ????

 

[jetsled]

I agree, but I bet 40k on the P&L looks pretty good at the end of the year.

 

[Foxbow]

Mild winter my a$$, its only December.
We can get 5 feet of snow before spring.
F/G is right doing something before its too late.
If there are some a$$holes out there killing bucks arrest the dumb
SOB's.

 

[jetsled]

If you haven't tuned into the local weather stations, do so. Latest opening for Bogus Basin in their history was Jan.6th. They have no snow right now, so unless something drastic happens it will break an all-time record for LACK of precip. Granted things can change, that's the proactive vs. reactive talk from above. How do you know they are doing the right thing?? You friends with mother nature? You don't know how much weather we are going to get and neither do I. I just know we haven't had any yet and we are almost a 1/3 the way through the winter.

Here is a link for the weather towards the bottom of the winter range in 45. One slight chance of rain in the next 10 days.

http://www.weather.com/weather/tenday/USID0093

 

[OLDHORNHUNTER]

u must live in another part of the state !! there is NO snow from the Oregon border to the Wyoming border.. the reason for the hunt according to F&G out of the Magic Valley office was because they THOUGHT alot of deer would die due to the burn off of 40000 acres & the SNOW that would keep them from finding sufficent food sources...Nov gone NO SNOW Dec gone NO SNOW & really is there anyone on this site that REALLY believes that these deer were ONLY going to eat off that 40000 acres ??? & are not capable of finding alternate food sources ???

 

[brymoore]

IDF&G's reasoning for the hunt. Snow was not mentioned.

"In August, the Blair Fire burned about 38,000 acres of critical mule deer winter range in the Bennett Hills north of King Hill and Glenns Ferry. Surveys have shown that more than 5,000 deer used the burn area in the past, representing about 40 percent of the total wintering population in the Smoky-Bennett Population Management Unit, made up of units 43, 44, 45, 48 and 52.

The antlerless hunts would help minimize deer crowding on remaining winter ranges, lessen deer use of private lands and roadways, and provide hunting opportunity. And they would help bring herd numbers into balance with the remaining habitat."

http://fishandgame.idaho.gov/public/media/viewNewsRelease.cfm?newsID=6081

 

[OLDHORNHUNTER]

I read the article myself & I also called & asked the biologist about the hunt & asked point blank why would they have a doe hunt after the regular seasons had ended & wouldnt most of the does in this unit already be bred & on a winter range that held that many deer how many other deer would be stressed due to the people hunting them & also asked how did they know this winter was going to be bad !! all the answers were the same they DIDNT KNOW they were assuming there would be alot of snow in nov dec !! I also asked why wouldnt they consioder using their already in place depredation hunt program & was told that that wouldnt work !!! why wouldnt it work ?? {because they were not going to get any $$ from a depredation hunt!!} I also asked WHY F&G didnt recommend adding these additional doe tags to 39 43 44 & 45 during the regular deer seasons when the does were not bred !! again I was told they DIDNT KNOW kinda makes one wonder why they waited until the end of the regular seasons..when there were 1000s of unsold non resident tags & a pretty dismal harvest at most of the check stations !!! so draw your own conclusion its a damn clear picture !!

 

[brymoore]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-22-11 AT 12:02PM (MST)[p]The concern at hand is the loss of feed in a specific area. To hunt the deer before they arrived on the winter range would not necessarily solve the problem. Deer wintering in other areas could be killed for no reason. Whether the does were bred or not is a mute point. You can assume that with each dead doe it would have produced fawns the next spring.

 

[OLDHORNHUNTER]

where do u think these deer that were going to winter on this 40000 acres of burned land migrated from ?? most if not all of them come down from 39 43 & 44..so if there was concern by our F&G earlier in the year over this burn/lack of food issue it would have made more sense to harvest healthy non stressed animals before they arrived onto the winter range..but that idea wasnt put on the table by F&G until after the regular seasons were either over or almost over !!! again if F&G are concerned about our herds why wasnt it handled before hand !! & to have a winter range hunt based solely on a Hunch over Snow in Nov Dec is BS

 

[jetsled]

So 5,000 deer, representing 40% of the wintering population use the burned area to winter? I am calling total bullsh*t on that. Didn't we all just come to the conclusion that there is over 250,000 acres of prime wintering ground in that area? It's called dispersion, un-believable, deer will migrate to whatever food source is available. Fish and Game please don't b.s. us just call it what it is.

 

[Muleymemories]

Plenty of food source avaliable, well put jetsled! What a shame..

ridgeline outdoors

 

[YBO]

Just curious if there are deer wintering on the fourty thousand today? What kind of shape are they in? Is there any new germination of feed coming up from the mid Oct rains? Did the local nimrods actually harvest 500 does? Thank you for answering these questions.

 

[Idahoron]

I don't know of any local "nimrods" that drew. I know a lot of guys that put in to save a doe but none drew.
I did here that some guys were trespassing into corn fields and stuff like that. All told this will be a black eye. Ron