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powellpounder
Guest
I was wondering if the deer have rebounded since 2011. Also what are your thoughts on the unit. If someone hunted hard can you produce a 170 class buck. thanks
nontypical
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170 would even be tough right now. 160 would be a more reasonable top end. Of course there's always a possibility of a larger buck, but they are few and far between right now; and have been for a few years. Last year, G&F reduced 102 tags by 100; they are proposing another 100 tag drop this year. 200 tags for 2015, and in 2013 there were 400. That speaks volumes about the unit...
Looks like maybe G&F is finally seeing what the hunters in sw Wy have been trying to tell them for the last several years...that buck quality is in the toilet, and deer numbers overall are down...
Servehim pretty well nailed it. Hunt your arse off and maybe you'll get lucky enough to make a liar out of me. Mostly just enjoy hunting. 102 is a cool place, just doesn't have the quality anymore.
Looks like maybe G&F is finally seeing what the hunters in sw Wy have been trying to tell them for the last several years...that buck quality is in the toilet, and deer numbers overall are down...
Servehim pretty well nailed it. Hunt your arse off and maybe you'll get lucky enough to make a liar out of me. Mostly just enjoy hunting. 102 is a cool place, just doesn't have the quality anymore.
DoubleDropMuley
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Both post before are pretty accurate but always a chance for bigger bucks in any area. And like Nontyp said they are proposing to cut the numbers down to 200 tags. Best news ive heard from G&F in along time. Hope they continue to help getting some quality back!!
deerfanatic
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While I don't get out in that area as much as I do in other areas, I do get to go play around in 102 a hand full of times every year. I'm hoping the lower number of tags helps, but I would like to see them make the area four point or less only for several years too. When I say four point I mean a 3 point with eye guards or a 4 point without eye guards. I'm not a biologist, but I've seen the data on the average age class taken, I've also seen the antlers on lots of those deer that aged between 5 and 8 years old, and in my opinion, the genetics for the trophy antler has been taken out of that heard over the last 30 years. For as big as the area is and the population of the heard, harvesting 400 deer isn't the issue. But when 90% of the people hunting the area are looking for a trophy; over time you impact the genetics. Add the fact that being a hard area to draw a tag you have lots of hunters who will settle for that younger buck that is a solid 5x5 before he gets to that five plus years old just so they don't go home empty handed after waiting so long to get a tag.
There are other ways to manage the genetics that have been just as successful that could be used other than what I mentioned that I would be all for too. Look at Utah with their spike only general tag and the limited entry branched antler bull tag in some of their areas. Twenty five years ago Utah's game management produced next to nothing trophy wise, but now look at them. (I'm not a Utah resident...so I'm not trying to give them a biased atta boy).
Another example was many general elk areas in Wyoming. Up until about Twenty-five years ago it was Bulls only on a general tag. They did give some limited cow tags. At that time, there were very few people who could say they shot a six point bull. If you wanted to eat elk, you better have planned on shooting the first bull that came into range or you probably would be eating tag soup. Then the G&F let you shoot any elk the first four days. The G&F meetings where filled with mad people because they wanted better trophies and letting people shoot anything was going to ruin the elk population, not help the mature Bulls out. Well after about 2 or 3 years they said shoot any elk the first ten days then Bulls only. Soon you started seeing and people started harvesting bigger bull elk. Now it's gone to any elk the first ten days then cows only. The point of this lesson is there are meat hunters, trophy hunters, and some that just like to be out there. Giving people options in the elk example let more bull elk grow a little older. It went from spikes and rag horns breeding the cows to better genetic bull elk breeding the cows.
Sorry for being long winded, but if 102 is going to be a trophy area, there needs to be a harvest strategy built that allows good genetics to grow up and breed. The tough part with deer in that area is the hunt is pre-rut so many of the ones you want to be doing the breeding are shot before they have a chance. I think elk is easier because the seed is planted a few weeks before most of the big guys get dusted.
There are other ways to manage the genetics that have been just as successful that could be used other than what I mentioned that I would be all for too. Look at Utah with their spike only general tag and the limited entry branched antler bull tag in some of their areas. Twenty five years ago Utah's game management produced next to nothing trophy wise, but now look at them. (I'm not a Utah resident...so I'm not trying to give them a biased atta boy).
Another example was many general elk areas in Wyoming. Up until about Twenty-five years ago it was Bulls only on a general tag. They did give some limited cow tags. At that time, there were very few people who could say they shot a six point bull. If you wanted to eat elk, you better have planned on shooting the first bull that came into range or you probably would be eating tag soup. Then the G&F let you shoot any elk the first four days. The G&F meetings where filled with mad people because they wanted better trophies and letting people shoot anything was going to ruin the elk population, not help the mature Bulls out. Well after about 2 or 3 years they said shoot any elk the first ten days then Bulls only. Soon you started seeing and people started harvesting bigger bull elk. Now it's gone to any elk the first ten days then cows only. The point of this lesson is there are meat hunters, trophy hunters, and some that just like to be out there. Giving people options in the elk example let more bull elk grow a little older. It went from spikes and rag horns breeding the cows to better genetic bull elk breeding the cows.
Sorry for being long winded, but if 102 is going to be a trophy area, there needs to be a harvest strategy built that allows good genetics to grow up and breed. The tough part with deer in that area is the hunt is pre-rut so many of the ones you want to be doing the breeding are shot before they have a chance. I think elk is easier because the seed is planted a few weeks before most of the big guys get dusted.
I agree with the idea of limiting harvest to smaller bucks if the goal is to have more larger bucks. I think Utah in the 90's is the perfect example of this strategy working. I think too often people feel that if you want bigger bucks you need to limit the harvest of small bucks to let them grow up. I happen to think the opposite is true. Limit the harvest of mature bucks to get more bigger bucks. Utah did it with elk. I would also point to Colorado with its 4 point or better on many elk areas. Unless the number of tags is severely limited the result of this strategy is a bunch of 4 point bulls not a bunch of 6 point bulls. BC has a bunch of areas that are 6 point or better and the typical bull from these areas is a small 6 point.
While I don't personally like the idea of managing to a trophy size but rather I think management should be based on herd size and health, if people want management for trophy size I think the time has come to try limiting the harvest of larger bucks not smaller.
While I don't personally like the idea of managing to a trophy size but rather I think management should be based on herd size and health, if people want management for trophy size I think the time has come to try limiting the harvest of larger bucks not smaller.
well my 2 cents may not even be worth 2 cents but the western states could triple tags and close all the roads and there will be trophies. I love 102 it has a lot of roads and more all the time,I have not been there when I didnt see good bucks and some times huge ones,In alberta the oil and gas brought the people in and now a big buck cant hide,so there went the #s and the quality, this is a true story we used to have 200 in. deer going through the goose decoys and it would be dark at night now it is lite up like a city and the deer are 150s and fewer.
nontypical
Long Time Member
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WGFD does not manage any units in the state for "trophy" hunting. They are asking the commission for a reduction in tags in 102 in response to overall deer numbers being down.
Antler point restrictions are usually implemented in response to low buck/doe ratios. Most often they are lifted after 2-3 years. Recently, APR's have been kept after G&F has wanted to lift them, due to public pressure to keep the APR's in place in certain areas; and also being implemented in other areas( also in response to public and political pressure).
WGFD is not interested in managing for "trophy" units for any species. It's all about opportunity with them.
A 5 minute drive gets me into 102. Myself and many friends spend lots of time every year in the unit. Not one single person I know has anything good to say about overall buck quality in 102 right now...
But go ahead and hunt it. It's a cool place. Just don't be too disappointed when you only find 150-160 class 3x4's to hunt.
Antler point restrictions are usually implemented in response to low buck/doe ratios. Most often they are lifted after 2-3 years. Recently, APR's have been kept after G&F has wanted to lift them, due to public pressure to keep the APR's in place in certain areas; and also being implemented in other areas( also in response to public and political pressure).
WGFD is not interested in managing for "trophy" units for any species. It's all about opportunity with them.
A 5 minute drive gets me into 102. Myself and many friends spend lots of time every year in the unit. Not one single person I know has anything good to say about overall buck quality in 102 right now...
But go ahead and hunt it. It's a cool place. Just don't be too disappointed when you only find 150-160 class 3x4's to hunt.
BuzzH
Long Time Member
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Mulecreek, 102 is mostly BLM.
I think you're right that the BLM is a bit tougher to work with in regard to travel management than the FS.
I'm just not convinced that much effort is put in by the public, BLM, and GF to address the issue of unfettered access.
It is a tricky interaction, you're 100% correct, but IMO, worth investing some time in.
I think you're right that the BLM is a bit tougher to work with in regard to travel management than the FS.
I'm just not convinced that much effort is put in by the public, BLM, and GF to address the issue of unfettered access.
It is a tricky interaction, you're 100% correct, but IMO, worth investing some time in.
Gamewatcher
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We hunted the unit in 2014. We had 2 tags and hunted the entire unit for the entire hunt. We filled one tag that was a 154" tall 4x4. (Good looking buck!). It was harvested by an older gentleman (78). In pre-season scouting we found one 30"- 180+class buck. The other hunter is a hard hunting trophy hunter, so we looked all over for a great buck. We saw a lot of 140" and 150" class bucks, a few great big bull elk, (2 of which were harvested by other hunters, one 370-380" bull, & the other a 360" bull). The last tag went unfilled. We never even saw a buck that went 160". The Wyoming game and fish guys we talked to said they hadn't checked anything bigger than our one buck that we harvested. They gave us a tip on a good buck someone was hunting on the archery hunt. We investigated the area and saw little sign of anything there. Fun unit to hunt, looking at deer all daylong, a lot of average bucks and great country for any type of hunting! I would do it again, but not for the amount of points it takes.
Wyoming Hunting Guides & Outfitters
Urge 2 Hunt
We focus on trophy elk, mule deer, antelope and moose hunts and take B&C bucks most years.
