trespassing for sheds?

A

AndymanSavage

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Guys, I don't really shed hunt much. I'll pick them up while on other hunts, but a piece of bone on the ground isn't a huge thing to me. I just had a question about trespassing. I know that most guys would NEVER shoot a buck or bull on private property, but many don't have issues with hopping over a fence to grab a shed in sight on private property. I have seen it happen and heard of it as well, be it a farmer's field or a large tract of private land. I guess the thought is that they aren't taking anything living and the landowner may not want it anyway. So what are your thoughts? Have you done it? Is it not a big deal?

The thing that made me think is the thread about the SLC cemetary buck. That cemetary is private property, it is not public land. The people running the place made it clear to multiple people that thay they did not want the sheds being taken, but they were and the guy who got them was congradulated all over here.

Is it stealing to take sheds from private property where you DO NOT have permission?


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http://andymansavage.blogspot.com/
 
I have a herd of deer which lives on my farm in UT county and it is amazing how many guys will sit and watch them throughout the day. Biggest buck this year was mid 170s, a few basket heads, with the rest smaller. I have it posted, yet rarely find an antler, but always find boot tracks. The other night a neighbor saw a flashlight in my field. A flashlight? That is what it is coming to. My kids get bummed, so I salt a few for them to find.

These same guys would be upset if someone took a chalky 4 point out of their flowerbed, yet they are willing to break the law to pick it up. It is amazing that a 60" antler will cause guys to break the law. I am sure they sent photos to all their buddies to show them what great "shed hunters" they are.

Like they say, locks are for honest people. I guess the same goes for No Trespassing signs. Lots of dishonest sportsmen out there.....
 
Interesting subject for sure. There aren't too many tracts of land, whether shed hunting is permitted or not, that don't get picked over. The fact is, land owners have the right to close post their property. And they should absolutely have that right. For all intents and purposes, that PROPERTY is theirs. If they don't want a bunch of people running around their property, thats totally up to them.

Its said a lot during the discussion of topics such as these that landowners deserve respect, and for the most part, I completely agree with that. However, not all landowners, being people like everyone else, deserve respect.

Throughout my shed hunting career, I have asked dozens of different land owners for permission to shed hunt their land. Often times I get told "no". It is their land and their choice, and I will probably adhere to their decision, that doesn't mean I always respect them for that choice.

Here are some examples of good reasons. I've hand landowners explain that they have cattle in the area that are calving, that too many people have stopped and asked, that shed hunters have damaged property. For the most part, landowners that give you this kind of response are good people and have good reason. In fact, they will usually let you have access if you come back when the cattle aren't calving, or if you simply offer to fix some fence or help them with some chores around the ranch. All of these reasons are understandable and I respect these landowners.

On the other hand, and unfortunately this is the more common occurance, the landowner doesn't allow you to access their land because they believe the deer or elk herd is theirs. They "manage" the wildlife on their property, and during the hunting and shed hunting seasons they are more than happy to keep them safe behind their fences for their own personal benefit. These are "their herds". They are their herds until it comes to feeding them in the winter months when they obtain game harassment permits to chase them on to public land. While I may have to listen to these landowners, I do not have to respect them.

Its my opinion that the wildlife herds are not owned by anyone. They are a public resource that should be enjoyed by the public. I pay taxes and purchase hunting and fishing licenses so that the state may manage the state's wildlife, not so selfish landowners can manage their own herds. I park off of public roads all the time to watch deer and elk through my spotting scope on posted private land all the time. I get dirty looks from landowners, but I don't care. I am not trespassing, and they don't have the right to tell me I can't enjoy the wildlife on their property from a distance.

The point being, after my long, drawn out explanation (for which I apologize), that from my experience most shed hunters (not all, but most) are good people, and if they are not respecting the landowners wishes, chances are it is because they don't respect the landowners themselves. Its some what of a "two wrongs don't make a right" scenerio, but at least you may understand the thought process.
 
I have to wonder- Am I supposed to earn the respect of complete strangers to keep them from trespassing? People are not courteous enough to respect a private landowner, no matter their wishes?

I do not feel like I own the deer, just provide them a place to live, water to drink, food to eat. The deer are free to leave (and do when multiple people trespass). I have never asked the UDWR to compensate me for wildlife damage. I do feel like I own the right to access our farm and I have the right to allow or not allow whomever I choose to access our private lands also.

I have been in the same situation, observing wildlife from a public area and receiving dirty looks. It usually is from others though (many times the competitive shed hunters), not even the landowner. Not everyone who looks will trespass, but the guy who is there multiple times a day for weeks probably has other motives.

Maybe we should just grow houses instead of cows, horses, sheep, and hay. That would solve it.
 
This subject is great. Shed hunters have their own way of rationalizing their actions for reasons you mentioned. Many feel they are entitled to trhe bone cause its just laying there. Packouts comment on a chalk shed disappearing from a yard cracked me up. But its so true. Theres the "if I don't, somebody else will' mentality. Even the national parks have that problem.

Some guy are willing to trade their integritry for a bone.

Yelum
 
I wasn't intentionally referring to you, Packout. I've never met you, so I can't judge. And I don't know what it is like where you live, but most people that spend a lot of time hunting and shed hunting where I'm from know the local landowners pretty well. You do own the right to access your farm (of course) and the right to allow or not allow whomever you choose to access your farm. I'm also not condoning trespassers at all. They know the consequences of their actions if they get caught.

In my first response, I tried to explain the difference between "respect" and "adherence". A landowner that closes his/her land for the sole reason of managing their own wildlife herd for his/her personal selfish benefits should be "adhered" to, but that doesn't mean I have to "respect" that person. I can think that person is a selfish pr*ck all I want. Its my opinion that what goes around comes around, and next year when the river floods or a wildfire is threatening his ranch, chances are you won't find any sandbags in my hand or you won't see me digging fire line. That's my opinion. Others may not feel the same, they may just hop the fence and shed hunt anyway. Again, not saying they are right to do so, just trying explain what happens.

Unless people are covering your land by the dozens or destroying your property, what does it matter if you let a few shed hunters on your property? Chances are you won't even know that they were ever there, besides the fact that your shed pile might be a little smaller. Personally, I think people like to say "no" just because they can.

Honestly, I wasn't personally attacking you at all. I'm just making a general statement about some landowners.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-08-12 AT 02:08PM (MST)[p]Furbird- Welcome to the forum. I was just talking in general. I did not take your post as an attack. I just feel that earning the respect of people we do not know, so that those people will respect our rights, is a high bar to set. To think "it does not matter" is the problem I have with your statement. I could care less how big my shed pile is. I do care that people stay off the land which was bought through hard work and maintained with the same. If a landowner wants people to stay off his land then that should be good enough. He should not have to explain his motives to anyone, especially someone willing to break the law.

Yelum-- I want to shed hunt in your living room. hahaha
 
Thanks, Packout. I've read posts on here for years, finally got bored enough at work this afternoon to join up. That and the fact that I'm sittin' in my office staring out the window with a little spring fever.

I didn't mean to come off saying "it does not matter". In fact, my question was meant to be taken literal. I am curious to get an honest opinion from a landowner. What would you tell me if I knocked on your door and asked to shed hunt? What if i offered to help fix some fence or other chores around your property for access? Honestly, I have no problem doing that for any landowner in trade.

I can see your point about earning the respect of random people you don't know. Like I mentioned, I live in a pretty small area. Everyone knows the majority of the local landowners pretty well. That being said, there are quite a few ranches in my area that if I was driving down the road and saw someone trespassing, I'd probably just wave and keep driving. On the other hand, there's also a few places that I would mention something to the landowner, or maybe write down a plate number or something.

Owning land does give a person certain rights, all of which you have mentioned, but one of them isn't necessarily "respect", at least in the context I am referring. Not saying that you have to earn everyone's respect, but it is easy to lose it.
 
Here's the way I look at it, I'd be pretty darn upset if somebody walked into my 1/2 acre back yard and removed anything without permission so I don't think it's right to do it to someone else, whether it's a 1/2 acre or 100,000 acres.

I know there are a few bad apples in every bunch but for some reason it seems like the majority of the bunch is bad when it comes to us shed hunters. Pretty frustrating.

Its lonely at the top.... just the way I like it.
 
Packout, I've been trying to get you up here for years. Maybe I need to give you trespass rights. lol

Yelum
 
I'd be a little pissed too if someone came into my 1/2 acre backyard and took my kids' swing set. However, people haven't spent hundreds of thousands of dollars in taxes and licenses to manage swing set populations. If you have a large deer herd in your 1/2 acre back yard and people sneak into it to find shed antlers, you should be pissed that they entered your backyard without permission, not that they entered to find the horns.

Say you are a landowner, specifically one that outfits for hunting and maybe even shed hunts yourself, and on your land you have a large, flat, windblown ridge where a lot of deer winter.If I knock on your door and ask to go shed hunting, chances are, and I say this from past experience, you will most likely tell me "no". Now lets say this same ridge is also the ideal place to fly remote controlled airplanes. If I knock on your door and ask to fly my remote controlled airplane, and I may be going out on a limb here, but your answer could very well be different.

As a landowner you have every right to deny access to anyone, at any time, for any reason, without justification. Just the same, I don't have to be nice to anyone, at any time, for any reason, without justification. If I see an elderly lady trying to carry groceries into her house, I am by no way legally obligated to help her. It is my right to choose not to help, and there are absolutely no consequences for doing so except for the fact that it makes me an a**hole. While this is an extreme case, I think you get the point. Closing your land purely for your own hunting and shed hunting benefit, while it is your right, is still an a**hole thing to do.
 
"Closing your land purely for your own hunting and shed hunting benefit, while it is your right, is still an a**hole thing to do."



I followed your logic until this point. For a lot of outdoorsman, the reason to own land is to "close it for your own benefit". My buddy owns 700 acres in the Uinta basin. Although some of it is maintained as farmland, the best part about it is the isolation and the ability to enjoy the outdoors there as a sportsman. He has several ponds on the place that attract ducks and geese by the hundreds every fall. Is he an A-hole for denying access to waterfowlers that come knocking? When we hunt out there we regularly kick peole off the land. Most don't ask permission, just drive past the signs and start hunting. I know that the ducks aren't his, hell, they aren't even in the state for long. I just don't see why keeping that access to his land limited makes him a jerk....

PS, I'd let you fly your RC plane on my 1/4 acre for a small trespass fee...




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LAST EDITED ON Mar-08-12 AT 05:04PM (MST)[p]You want access?
Man, this is an easy one! Marry the freaking farmers daughter!
To get lots of shed hunting access you may need to take up polygamy, but don't worry, they don't prosecute polygamists in the state of Utah.
Problem solved.

In the event that there is no farmers daughter to marry, you just need to get more creative.
How many landowners get asked the same exact question by some stranger standing on their doorstep?

BORING! LAME! He already knows the answer, because he has been asked it a zillion times before!

Next time try this.

"Hello sir, do you by chance have a daughter? No. Too bad. Anyways, I have a proposition for you. I would like to challenge you to an arm wrestle."

At this point, you have the farmers attention. This is not what he thought it was when he opened the door. He does not have a pre determined answer for this.
You are now in the drivers seat.

Continue with the following.
"See, I would like to shed hunt for antlers on your land. I win the challenge, you let me hunt the land and I give you my biggest shed of the day. You win and I walk away with a hurt arm and bruised ego."

As for picking up the sheds without permission, whats the point?
The antler is tainted.
Forever, no matter how big the antler is, you have to live with the knowledge that its a tainted horn.
Do you really feel pride, do you feel happiness, do you respect yourself for getting it that way?

I have a term. "HORNGREED" If you cant give your biggest, brownest, match set to your best friend without regret, you have "HORNGREED"
People matter, not antlers.

The best part of the story is not the stupid horn you picked up, its the crazy ##### you had to do to get the permission to pick up that horn.

Now, about the silly cemetary buck. Really, are we going to do this?
You are all wrong.
The antlers belong the the family that owned the plot of land that the horns fell on. They dont belong to the cemetary. They dont belong to the guy who picked them up.
They belong to the dead guy who bought that plot of land, and his wife who buried his ass there.
If I was the rightful owner of those horns the guy who stole them off my grave would be getting haunted right now.
My ghost would be stealing his car keys, turning on the blender in the middle of the night, HE WOULD SEE DEAD PEOPLE!

Now, if you disagree with my comments, please dont hate me.
I love all of you like my brothers. Life is too fun to waste too much of it on getting bent about stuff like this.
 
I think GAGA may be onto something (and on something). I like the idea of the arm wrestle. It's like throwing a $2 bill at a stripper.......either she thinks it's a $20, or she sees it's a $2 and thinks "hey, this guy is unique"

Also, I think you are technically right about the cemetary thing.......


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Every situation is different andyman. I guess I don't like the fact that hunting is becoming a money sport. That's not the way I was raised and I'm a little bitter toward that. The type of landowner I'm referring to is the guy that shuts off 1000s of acres, "manages" his own elk herd, and makes a killing from outfitting.

"For a lot of outdoorsman, the reason to own land is to 'close it for your own benefit'" - unfortunately that's what I see the sport turning into. The days of helping a guy brand his calves, and in return he'd let ya hunt or shed hunt, are just about over. Heck, it used to be that ranchers wanted you to hunt elk on their property to knock down the herds so they didn't have to feed them all winter. Now they see dollar signs.

The hard part is that there are so many people asking for permission anymore. There are a ton of land owners that get asked by dozens of people every weekend. I can see how that would get old in a hurry. Besides the fact, if you start letting a ton of people on your land, things are bound to get damaged sooner or later. I wouldn't want a ton of people I've never met runnin wild around my property either. I don't know, I'm on the fence in a lot of situations.

Just for the record, I'm not a trespasser, I'm more of a back country public land guy myself.

BTW, I guess I'll just head down to the local park with my RC plane
 
And if you think Shedyhawk is blowing smoke, believe me when I say he shed hunts for the pleasure of the hike. Don't matter where he hikes. CO, UT, WY, ID, every shed he finds goes to his BFF.

Yelum
 
>And if you think Shedyhawk is
>blowing smoke, believe me when
>I say he shed hunts
>for the pleasure of the
>hike. Don't matter where
>he hikes. CO, UT,
>WY, ID, every shed he
>finds goes to his BFF.
>
>
>Yelum



no Larry, I believe him and think he's funny. I've seen the pictures. I meant it in a good way ;)


You just have to laugh at someone that would bedazzle antlers onto their butt....


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To listen to some of you your trying to rationalize BREAKING THE LAW. Its tresspassing plane and simple. Whats there to not understand. Its not your land so dont touch it. Period. Ask the owner, if the answer is yes, go get it. If the answer is no dont.
 
It's funny how fast a shed hunting thread will go to a jr high school level fight. It's the reason I don't spend much time on tines up any more. Every shed hunter plays the ethics card on the Internet, then is the first one to jump a fence, push deer, or head out way too early.
Sorry to paint such broad stroke. Not all shed hunters are that way, just seems like the vast majority are.
I found one elk shed last year while out hiking. I set it on my front porch and by morning it was gone. Pretty pathetic.


Traditional >>>------->
 
Can't say that I have ever had a single person stop and ask to shed hunt on my property. Although every year there are tons of boot tracks and now more and more off road vehicle tracks. Over the years I watched this whole thing turn into something like combat hornhunting. It's crazy how many people do this and for whatever reason they do. Which is fine. We're all entitled to do so
Except not on someone else's property or crossing their property. Furbird I can understand your thinkin about buying a license paying 'your' taxes but you aren't paying the landowners taxes. Hell I bought a license and tags and paid taxes my whole life so I should be able to walk right in your house and go through that pile of antlers and take what I want cuz they are part mine? And if not then I can think your an **hole? It may be difficult or impossible to get permission on some peoples land but I think you have the right idea about offering to help them out with fence or whatever.
 
I apologize for the a**hole comment. i had a specific group of people in mind when i wrote that.

The only point I was trying to make is:
Shed hunters always get pigeon holed into being unethical, irresponsible a**holes and the landowner is always portrayed as hard working guy just trying to make a living and getting taken advantage of. Thats not ALWAYS the case. Sometimes landowners can be pr*cks too.

I'm not trying to rationalize or justify anything. if you see a trespassers boot track on your property, ill garrantee you its not mine. i take pride in the fact that 90 peecent of my sheds come from public land and the other 10 percent are on ranches that i do have permission.

DR ~ the beauty of it is... you can think i'm an a**hole all you want to. And for clarification, i was not stating that i am entitled to anything because a buy licenses, i was trying to make the point that our wildlife are for everyone to enjoy, whether it be hunting, shed hunting, photography, etc. Just a general statement implying that no one owns them, even if you own the land they live on.
 
There is no beauty in thinkin people are A holes. And I'm not in any way sayin that you are. Probably a pretty good guy and it
sounds like you do the right things to get permission long before the first shed hits the ground.
A few bad eggs spoil it for all. That goes for landowners as well as shed hunters
 
Fur- Lets say you own 100 acres and there are 20 bucks using your property from Dec-March. On Feb 20th, the first one sheds. A stranger knocks on your door and asks if he can shed hunt your property. What do you say? What if it was a guy you see around town, but never really talk to? What if it is a guy you went to High School with 15 years ago?

Or it is March 18th and the last buck has shed. A stranger knocks on your door and asks if he can shed hunt your property? He will even help fix fence for 2 hours (hopefully he knows how to fix fence). What would you say? Would you let him or the others I mentioned out to pick up the sheds, while you sat in the house?

Under these scenarios you own the land, the deer are using it and by your first post, you would be selfish if you didn't let others pick them up.

I rarely ever think anyone is a #@^%$. I don't find holding grudges does me much good.

This whole shed hunting pastime has become a fiasco. 15 years ago we'd hike in April and May, leave the chalks on the ground and enjoy a reason to hike. Now, some guys view it as $$$, but even worse are the guys who equate finding an antler to their worth as a human being- competition. Guys are pushing the envelope to pick up antlers off 2 year old bucks. They baby-sit animals for days, trespass, drive ATVs off road, push the animals, harass them if they are one-antlered, build devices to rip the antlers off the animal's head, etc.... And I'd wager it is many more than the minority, at least from what I have witnessed.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-09-12 AT 10:58AM (MST)[p]I agree with ya on this one. Esply that last paragraph. But not all are like that. I know some just like to hike and a nice brown set is just a bonus from a good afternoon watching deer
But to furs defense I see and personally know some landowners who doing some stuff that's just wrong and selfish. I know one who is probably the highest paid ranch in the state of Idaho for elk depredation and won't let a soul on their to hunt without paying 100$ a day trespass fee to help thin out the problem elk. That's BS.
I hope all landowners are not put in the same boat as this type
We have never took a penny from f and g or used anyone's license and tag fees to compensate for fence hay or other damages. We know we own land and these things will happen. But the Almighty$ has really taken a toll on some shed hunters and landowners alike.

I personally would rather pick up the sheds off a buck than to harvest him. And I enjoy seeing a two point shed laying there as much as a big 4 knowing that yearling made it through the harsh winter last year as a fawn and this year part the predators.
 
And ps
I really enjoyed shedy's offer. Arm wrestle. :)
Sure might weed out all the skinny little punks shed hunting on a guys place
 
I have visited this sight for years and posted once in a while but haven't for a long time. This topic really intrigues me so wanted to drop by .02. I moved to wyoming when I was 11 and have shed hunted for 24 years since. Walking 10 or 12 miles a day and occasionally grabbing some bone was about as good as it got for me. I am surrounded by public land (for the most part) so didn't have this issue until I ran off to college. Surrounded by private land where I was at I asked a lot of landowners for permission. probably 1/3 would let me on. Was it frustrating--sure--but you move on to the next area. I saw plenty of horns laying on private while I was walking some small strip of public but left them lay. I know several who would hop the fence, pick them up, and get back over the fence. Never sat right with me. A land owner doesn't have to give any reason for not letting people on. I found one generous land owner who let me and my buddies shed hunt. Have been going there for 10 years. Tons of horns and great mountainous terrain to get my hiking fix as well. He would let anyone on. About 5 years ago the secret got out and the place was crawling with people. But whats worse was the condition they left the ranch in. atv and snowmobile tracks everywhere, horses all over, fences busted, gates left open and trash like you wouldn't believe. 3 years ago I came unnanounced (only time in 10 years) and a locked gate greeted me. I went to his house to see what was going on--obviously he had enough. He graciously allowed me to hike his land but I would have to hike from the public road only an extra mile--no big deal. still find lots of horns and now less people. As far as I know I am the only one he is allowing on there as I haven't seen a human track in 3 years. Point is landowners hear about these experiences and don't want to deal with it. shed hunting is being quickly ruined by these over zealous, find at all costs idiots. I don't hardly touch the public land anymore because of it. I can't even ask a buddy how his hunt was because he is suspicious that I am trying to get in on 'his' hole. Its rediculous. Folks need to lighten up. I wish the horn market would collapse completely then we would have only the guys who enjoy the sport left.
K-Bull
 
I think its bull $hit anyone would trespasses... My family farm in southern utah county had 12 or so bulls on it 4 years or so ago... and we had to sit out day and NIGHT to make sure people wouldnt trespass and go run the bulls around it was clearly marked that it was private property.... we only ended up with 3 sets of sheds because of all the d!cks that ran around at night with flashlights stirring them up... I was so glad when people would trespass and we would catch them or the police and give them trespassing and a harassment of wildlife tickets... kind of a big bill just for some sheds....
 
I knock on the door and introduce myself and then simply say...."Is there anything I can do to earn the privelege of hiking around on your land to look for shed antlers?" I have dug some ditch, fixed some fence and even bucked some hay but rarely will they ask me to do anything and just let me go hike........it seems being willing to earn it is often enough. Sure, not every rancher will give me a green light but I have found this simple approach to be the most effective for me thus far. I always carry a trashbag with me to remove anything the wind or others have left behind and leave nothing but footprints for my time there.
 
It is the land owners right to respond as he pleases to those asking for permission.

"Trespassing for sheds???" As the title of this thread says, why? Why go on a tract of land that you have to hide and sneak around on just for some bone?? There is plenty of land out there that is open to the public if you don't get a good response from a landowner after asking permission. Don't be pissed at the landowner for not allowing you rights to HIS land for shed hunting purposes. Just move on and drop the high school opinions you may have of him after he says "NO". If you don't like being rejected for "Lame reasons" then save up your money and buy your own chunk of private property for shed hunting....Then I'd like to hear your response to the first person who knocks on your door for permission to shed hunt.
 
Awesome attitude Solesearcher. As with shedhunters, there are some prick landowners too but I like to think most people are good and it usually doesnt take too much for a mutually beneficial situation.
 
OK I'll bite on this one. You fellas live in an awfully black & white world. In that b/w world it is easy- don't do the crime if you can't do the time... the Robert Blake motto.
But what about the grey areas??

Unposted, unfenced, and unsurveyed lines (and don't say to buy a gps I can barely handle a digital camera!).

How about wrongly fenced , posted lines. Those old timers built fences where it was easy to build fences since they did't pay $10K/sq. in. for sage brush like the current owners did.

What about state trust lands that are open till Mar. 1st then off limits but unused till grazing leases kick in in May/June.

What about whole mountains clearly shown as all public on every map available but are wholly or mostly private and largely #1 &#2 above- non-fenced or wrongly fenced/ posted. These are mega rich people and are quite happy to claim it all until proven otherwise. The maps are wrong due to unrecorded land swaps with the NF and blm.

One ranch mgr let me hike for 10 yrs, I made him some lamps etc to say thanks and it was great. Then it sold, the horny part anyways, for a lousy $26 M. I pulled in to ask the new mgr (not the actual owner)and he was obnoxious. "Nobody walks in MY yard, I'm gonna pile them up in front of the ranch house". Ok says I, I could make you a nice chandelier from horns off the ranch??? "Get the F outa here you have nothing to offer me, NOBODY WALKS IN MY YARD!" Not much more to say after that so I left.

Couple months later I was following one of those guys who is always lost but always has to lead - you know him he is prevalent everywhere, anyway he pulls over cause he has to ask me where to go and it is right in the middle of this guys "yard". (it is a VERY big "yard") I look off to the right and 6" the other side of the fence is a nice 170'ish freshie, I have to admit I smiled as I bent over the top wire and scooped it in. And it was tainted like you purists say above it was sweet as if marinated in molasses and coated in honey! It was my favorite antler from that whole year.

If it lets you folks sleep at night the statute of limitations has long since run out on my criminal behavior...

The federal ROW is 20' from the white line and that fence was 19' from it according to my official "dead on balls accurate" stanley "horn hunter addition" tape measure.
 
Private land is exactly that......Private. You guys who hate ranchers are pretty unbelievable. Jealous because your family stayed in town when mine was homesteading our ranch over 150 years ago. How about you stay in town now? ;) Over the years i have had very few folks ask permission to access our land. I really enjoy meeting somebody who respects a fence or a gate or a posted sign. I really appreciate it when they ask for access and have allowed lots of them to cross our property to access federal land above us. I have also packed out more than a few bucks for guys who hiked in on public land and taken a buck. That's just the way i was raised. I feel very fortunate to own the land and take a lot of pride in our ranch. Where i get confused is when some people decide that because a rancher owns a certain amount of land, that rancher needs to not worry about his own livelyhood and cater to the needs of the sportsman? Since when is making sure you have access my number 1 priority? If you respect my ground, i will respect you. But when you cut fences, tear up feilds, shoot signs and water troughs and cattle, litter up a campsite, throw beer cans out every quarter mile, cut off locks, leave gates down and a hundred other things that are destructive to my land and my way i feed my family, i will post my land! A lot of you guys lock your doors, password your computer, have PIN on your bank account right? Why? Because it is your personal property and we all have that right to protect it as we all see fit! Wether you own a 1/4 acre in Boise or 35000 acres in southeastern utah should not matter. What matters is you own the ground and the assets that are on it. Who you allow access to it is up to you as a landowner. When wildlife are found on a peice of private land, gain access legally or keep out. Wildlife roam national parks and inside city limits where hunting is prohibited. A trespasser would probably poach a buck in Zion's just as quick as he'd cut a fence to steal a shedhorn. To me, both are equal in stupidity and ignorance and lacking in respect. But i am a greedy damn rancher who hates all sportsmen and rapes the earth by grazing a cow on it!

Think about this...... Maybe the guy who has all the trouble with landowners all the time needs to re-think who is the problem. Maybe the real problem looks at him when he shaves in the morning?

Are all landowners perfect? No way! And it only takes one "sportsman" to ruin it for lots of others by shooting a cow or cutting a lock. I wish we could realize ranchers and hunters should stand together a lot more instead of hating each other. If the anti's get there way we won't ranch or hunt!

I don't post much here because there sure seems to be a majority of the posters who have no respect for private land. I am sure my comments won't change many minds, but it sure gets old when folks tell me what i can do with my land.
 
100 acres and 20 bucks? When its all said and done, that's a shed for every 2.5 acres... sounds like I own a pretty sweet little honey hole!

In all honesty, I would probably let them go. I wouldn't make the guy fix fence either. I would imagine that they are going to get a little discouraged after a while though, as I'm sure I'd be watching the bucks and I'd be picking up the sheds on a regular basis. I rarely sit in the house, they would be pretty hard pressed to beat me to the sheds with permission or not.

If I started getting dozens of people a weekend asking to go on my property I would probably start limiting access, mainly because I've seen what that many people do to an area. Maybe let the first few people a weekend that stop and ask, as long as they aren't destroying the property. Like I stated before, I don't blame people for posting their land when it starts getting trashed, that's perfectly understandable and I don't blame you one bit.
 
I haven't read one post on this topic where anyone said they hate anyone because they own land. A lot of my good friends are ranchers. There are a lot of land owners I don't like, but I don't like them for the same reason I don't like the guy that owns the sporting good shop in my hometown, or for the same reason I don't like the gal that works at the coffee hut in town; they are selfish people. Here's an example:

Theres a large ranch outside of my home town that holds one of the larger elk herds in the area. It is located on the eastern edge of the mountain range and extends onto the valley floor. This ranch was purchased in the 1980s buy an out-of-state fella, and not long after his acquisition, a road that traverses through the land and onto the 1000s of acres of national forest behind it was gated and locked. It took 20 some years and thousands of dollars of taxpayer money to prove that this road did in fact belong to the county. In the mean time, the land owner leased the outfitting on his ranch, which just happened to now have 1000s of acres of inaccessible national forest land behind it to also be hunted and he made a ton of $$. I don't dis-like him because he owns the land, I dis-like him because of his actions.

I personally don't shed hunt that land, but there has been occasions where I have watched shed hunters snip the fence and take motor bikes straight up the face of the hill all the elk winter on, and I just chuckle a little inside.

I do have a question for you though desertrancher, and this isn't meant to come across confrontational, I honestly want to know yours, and everyone else's view, for that matter. You mentioned "cutting a lock to steal a shedhorn." To steal something implies ownership. Are the shed antlers on your land yours? How does this work? You don't own the deer, but as soon as a shed hits the ground does it become yours? If you catch someone sneaking on your land shed hunting and they have picked up some sheds, do you have the right to have them charged with theft?
 
I don't own the wildlife and neither do any other landowners. They belong to all of the public, non-hunters included. So i guess my use of the word steal was wrong. If they cut a lock in order to trespass and pick up a horn the illegal acts are the lock cutting and the trespassing. I am just like you in many ways. I dislike only a very few "hunters" who have decided that they are entitled to go anywhere and do anything that they want to.

The reason our property is locked now is because it is just not worth the work it takes to leave it open. We have one piece of ground, 1280 acres that lays in the bottom of two canyon mouths. In the past we would spend up to two weeks gathering cows off of tens of thousands of acres before the deer hunt in order to get them all in prior to vaccinating our calves and shipping them home at weaning time. Opening morning, we would all be hunting all over the mountain chasing bucks and living the dream. And then we would spend the next couple of days putting cows back in thanks to gates thrown open. (clearly marked politely PLEASE CLOSE GATE) This happened for 3 years in a row. And if you stopped to visit with a hunter crossing our ground it was always, "I found the gate like this". Now add in the year somebody decided 2 yearling heifers were perfect archery targets and they left them to rot and you might see our frustration continue to build. The last straw was when a "hunter" dumped 10 gallons of used oil on top of a water trough to force the deer to water at a different water source which was not on private ground so he could hang a tree stand!

Every thing that i have provided here effected the way i feed my family. And now our ground is locked, the cows stay where we leave them, the heifers don't get killed and the water trough keeps watering all manner of wildlife and domestic livestock without a pollution spill to clean up. I will always be willing to visit with guys who ASK to hunt or get access across my land. And i will be willing to grant permission on a case by case basis. But it will be my choice as long as i own it. And that is how it ought to be everyhere even if you don't like the landowner for whatever reason.

Here's a question back at ya........ There are thousands of acres of public land behind my ground. You and everyone else has access to that land by hiking or riding a horse in from a neighboring canyon. So what is the problem? My land creates a perfect low pressure area on the public ground BECAUSE i lock it. I would think a hunter would search out spots just like that and appreciate the reason it has less pressure. But most folks seem to think they are entitled to ride a 4 wheeler, drive a pickup or drag a camp trailer through my ground to get there and they get pissed off when they can't. Do they realize that if the gate wasnt locked there would be little if any reason to hunt up there???? It would just be another canyon with too much access that gets over-run by road hunters and mis-managed by the federal government like the vast majority of areas with access.

Landowners do more for wildlife accidentally than most public hunters and federal agencies do on purpose. And i don't mean that to sound arrogant. I sincerely believe some of the most crucial habitat is found protected by private land. Without that land, the resource (YOUR deer and elk herds ect.)would suffer. Again, not trying to tick ya off. It is sure an interesting discussion.

Do me a favor? Ask all your "rancher friends" how they would feel if somebody snipped their fence to take motor bikes up the face of a hill elk were wintering on to look for sheds and you were watching them do it. And be sure and tell them how not only you didnt say anything to the fence snippers but you kinda chuckled inside! I guess with your logic it's o.k. to rob a bank if the guy who owns the bank is a jerk. The money was just sitting there in the vault. :)

A long time ago somebody taught me to treat other folks and their stuff the same way i'd like myself and my stuff treated. I guess we all have different values.
 
You seem like a pretty good guy desertrancher. And i was by no way saying your values are wrong. I wish all landowners had your views and not simply chase the all mighty dollar by leating rights and blocking access to public lands. And like ive stated throughout the whole discussion, I'm not a trespasser. I prefer the challange of public land anyways.

The land i was talking about previously is tens of thousands of acres. I have actually hunted the public land behind it. In fact, several years ago i took a bull back there in a place where it would have ttaken a week to get a horse to. Being archery season and 90 degrees outside, i packed it out on my back until 3 am. That is fine for me, but i am young and in good shape. My dads generation had access to that land growing up and lost it. until they reopened the road, there was no way hed be able to enjoy that area ever again.

And by the way, the guy who snipped the fence and shwd hunted from his bike was the neighboring landowner. I guess the guy who owns the big posted ranch treats people how he wants to be treated..
 

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