Ticketed for Shed Hunting with Dogs

bullwallow · Jun 7, 2010

Well I am the guy who has been fined for having my dogs off a leash while I was shed hunting here in Colorado. I wanted to post this with a proper title to maybe here of someone elses experiences. Thank any of you for your comments and especially suggestions as I prepare for my trial. Below is the jist of the situation I am facing.

"I was shed hunting with my 2 labs, which I do just about every weekend in the spring here in Colorado. One has been shed hunting for 6 years and my youngest for 2 years. In March I was ticketed on a State Wildlife area for having a dog off leash. The regulations say that a dog must be on leash unless it is doing one of the following, 1. Actively hunting 2.Training a dog for hunting 3.Dog participating in a designated field trial course. The officer said that the regulation does not allow for shed hunting with dogs off leash and was intended for bird or lion hunting dogs. Except nowhere in the regulations does it call out specifics on what type of hunting is allowed and there is no definition of what they consider hunting to be. As all of you on this forum are probably like me and consider our dogs hunting when they are looking for sheds. I am taking this to trial and would like any experiences or suggestions on how I shall win this case. I'm fighting this for our sport of shed hunting with our best friends for the good of everyone on this site."

Thank you all for your support.

Antlers_Ink · Jun 7, 2010

That would burn me up something fierce! That is a chicken-$h*@
ticket to write. I'm not a law expert but how in the hell can they make that ticket stick when the law is not specific on what hunting consists of. The law is too vague and I would certainly think you could get a lawyer to prove that looking for antlers is actively hunting by definition. I believe us sportsmen would agree it's hunting. If they really want to tag people then they need to have the law specifically state their B.S. terminology.
By the way did you get the name and badge number of the officer who wrote the ticket? At least for the sake of your fellow sportsmen of Colorado they need to know.

I certainly wish you well with your case and hope you'll be able to shove the verdict up the officer's @$$.

2_Point · Jun 7, 2010

Tough situation there. In Utah they classify it as "Shed Gathering" not shed hunting. Maybe Colorado has done the same thing. This may sound a little brash, but that State WMA is there for the animals first and us second, way behind.

I might not make any friends, but before May 1 I won't take my dog shed hunting with me. I have found that deer will run from me and then settle down, but when I take my dog the deer run crazy. Especially if the dog is a little ways from me. Just me of course and what I do. I don't expect everyone to follow.

ARCHRYBLL · Jun 8, 2010

Let us know how this goes. I have a shed dog that goes on every hike I go on and I don't see how him hunting for sheds is any different than hunting for lions. I have seen alot more hounds chasing deer than anything else. Nothing against hound hunting I really enjoy it. But it comes down to dog training. I am sure if you look through the shed tests and permits that alot of states have started issueing somwhere they have to call it shed hunting. Maybe get a dog training expert to testify on how much more training it takes to make a dog "hunt" antlers than it does to get a dog to hunt birds (most bird dogs have an instinct for finding birds I have not found an antlerdog breed yet)

bullwallow · Jun 8, 2010

Thank you all for your support and criticism. I don't mind hearing both sides of the table. ARCHRYBLL you have some good points and I have alrady been in contact with a Kennel called Antler Dogs out of Missouri who has offered to provide a testimonial and statement to the court. I will definitely keep you all posted. Keep the comments coming.

G14 · Jun 8, 2010

PM Sent

fatrooster · Jun 8, 2010

bullwallow, thanks for coming on and giving the details. Let us know what happens and welcome to MM.
On a lighter note, would love to see pictures of your dogs shed hunting. fatrooster.

Teeb · Jun 9, 2010

LAST EDITED ON Jun-10-10 AT 00:03AM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Jun-10-10 AT 00:01?AM (MST)

LAST EDITED ON Jun-09-10 AT 11:36?PM (MST)

I did a little research for you. Here?s some selected information from Colorado Revised Statutes - Title 33: Wildlife and Parks and Recreation. The statute definitions are much more thorough than those found in the hunting pamphlets.

33-1-102. Definitions.

As used in this title, unless the context otherwise requires:

(25.5) "Hunt" means to pursue, attract, stalk, lie in wait for, or attempt to shoot, wound, kill, trap, capture, collect, or take wildlife. "Hunt" does not include stalking, attracting, searching, or lying in wait for wildlife by an unarmed person solely for the purpose of watching or taking photographs of wildlife.

(43) "Take" means to acquire possession of wildlife; but such term shall not include the accidental wounding or killing of wildlife by a motor vehicle, vessel, or train.

(51) "Wildlife" means wild vertebrates, mollusks, and crustaceans, whether alive or dead, including any part, product, egg, or offspring thereof, that exist as a species in a natural wild state in their place of origin, presently or historically, except those species determined to be domestic animals by rule or regulation by the commission and the state agricultural commission. Such determination within this statute shall not affect other statutes or court decisions determining injury to persons or damage to property which depend on the classification of animals by such statute or court decision as wild or domestic animals.

Here?s the source of the above info:
http://www.michie.com/colorado/lpext.dll?f=templates&fn=main-h.htm&cp=
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.

Here's some more selected info on state wildlife area. There's more detail to be found on specific wildlife areas in the link below.

CHAPTER 9 - DIVISION PROPERTIES
ARTICLE I - GENERAL PROVISIONS
#900 - REGULATIONS APPLICABLE TO ALL DIVISION PROPERTIES, EXCEPT STATE TRUST LANDS

C. Prohibited Activities
Except as specifically authorized by contractual agreement, official document, public notice, permit or by posted sign, the following activities are prohibited on all lands, waters, the frozen surface of waters, rights-of-way, buildings, and other structures or devices owned, operated, or under the administrative control of the Division of Wildlife: thereof must be in compliance with all Colorado statutes and regulations pertaining to motor vehicle operation.

12. To release wildlife or privately-owned game birds, except privately-owned game birds released for field trials, including group dog training, or on those state wildlife areas where release for dog training is specifically authorized in #901.A of these regulations; or to permit dogs, cats, or other domestic pets to run at large (not on a leash) on any area, except dogs lawfully used while actively hunting, or while training dogs for hunting, or during Division licensed field trials.

Link
http://wildlife.state.co.us/NR/rdonlyres/43038645-1B5A-4772-8221-E210532023FC/0/Ch09.pdf
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.

I'm not an attorney, and I don't live in Colorado, so this information is worth exactly what you paid for it ---- nothing.

bullwallow · Jun 10, 2010

Teeb,
Thanks alot for taking some time to research. This is extremely useful and I even found some other information on that first website that might help in my defense. Thanks again.

Teeb · Jun 10, 2010

No problem Bullwallow.

vaquero · Jun 10, 2010

id say you have a case

..."hunt" means to...collect, or take wildlife.

..."wildlife" means wild vertebrates...whether alive or dead, including any part...thereof...

...except dogs lawfully used when actively hunting...

good luck, i hope you win.

bullwallow · Mar 8, 2011

Hello all,

Well i thought i would give you all an update on this case. Sorry for the delay,but the trial was in november and unfortunately i lost. I will write more later in depth so i can maybe better inform all you shed hunters that love to hunt with dogs for bone. In short, the wildlife officer lied numerous times while being questioned, which really pi$$ed me off. It was determined in the end that on state wildlife areas anyway, it is illegal for dogs to hunt antlers the way the code reads (will follow up on this later). Therefore if any of you are venturing out on swa land with your shed hunting dogs beware of the fuzz. Your dogs must be leashed, but i may have found an out, stay tuned.

Sorry i couldnt pull through for all those shed hunting dog owners.

Vince (Colorado) · Mar 8, 2011

Hey Bullwallow,

PM me if you will. I'm curious to find out who the wildlife officer was and in what region this happened in.

Thanks,
Vince

Squirrel · Mar 8, 2011

The hell with pm's who was he and where??? You're responses are critical in the initial interogation, I always keep a bumper with me-says right on there "goose dummy", but I've never had to argue it to the guy in the black shirt that's way too big for him... For them lying under oath in my experience it is more common than not- whatever it takes to get the $68.