Thinkin out loud

[JoshJ]

With all the discussion about the auction tags and the same guys buying them year in and year out and the money they raise for our wildlife has weighed heavily on my mind. I attended the saturday banquet for the first time and just never had that feeling of this is doing good things for Utah's wildlife. An alternative that comes to mind would be "why not raffle off all the auction type tags?" Only treat them like a real raffle and allow people to spend as much as they want on tickets. If done properly I believe this would generate just as much money as auctioning them off and still allow us "Joe Public" a chance at obtaining one. Maybe I am up in the night, but like I said "Just thinking out loud". I know this doesnt fix the problem of seeing where our money is going, but at least maybe it will help the public.

Josh Jennings

 

[slamdunk]

Not sure Denny Austad would want to walk around with $160K worth of raffle tickets in his pocket, or check each and every one as the emcee read off one winning number.......just a thought ;-)

 

[Founder]

Auction tags raise more money, by far, than raffles. Raffles are a gamble for everyone, where an auction is a guarantee for one person.
I'm all for raffle tags. I wanted to see two deer draw tags on Antelope Island instead of 1 draw and 1 auction. But, from a raising money standpoint, the auction tags do bring in more money.
Some people have more money than thousands of us do altogether.

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com

 

[JoshJ]

>Auction tags raise more money, by
>far, than raffles. Raffles are
>a gamble for everyone, where
>an auction is a guarantee
>for one person.
>I'm all for raffle tags. I
>wanted to see two deer
>draw tags on Antelope Island
>instead of 1 draw and
>1 auction. But, from a
>raising money standpoint, the auction
>tags do bring in more
>money.
>Some people have more money than
>thousands of us do altogether.
>
>
>Brian Latturner
>MonsterMuleys.com


Like I said just thinkin out loud. Input is good, thanks. Does anybody know how many people apply for the mule deer sportsmans tag yearly? What if it was an online application and open to the world since not just residents are allowed to bid on auction tags? Treat it like the sportsmans application only allow people from everywhere to apply as many times as they like. Since its all in the name of raising money for wildlife right? A tiny chance is better than no chance in my mind.

Josh Jennings

 

[Sage]

They can't raffle the tags and take in money due to Utah's anti gaming laws. The only way they could do it is to offer chances at no charge. I don't think that will happen when they can sell a tag for 200K.

 

[TOPGUN]

You lost me on that one Sage! What are they doing now with all those tags that aren't being auctioned off and that guys are plunking down money for? Aren't those raffle tickets and exactly what you say is not legal, or are tjhose under some other law you're talking about? Please clue me in!

 

[Abiggerfish2fry]

They can do it like the Sportsman draw and call it a special draw and charge $25.00 for the one chance and make way over the $200.000 they would had got!

 

[JoshJ]

I see what your sayin Sage, but there is probably a way around that. I dont know anything about the legalities, but raffles occur all the time for fund raisers. If this was looked at as fund raiser(which it is)then maybe it would be legal.

I dont know what would be better Biggerfish $25 one shot deal or $5 a pop and allow people to put in multiple times. Would 10 thousand people worldwide put in at $25?

 

[Abiggerfish2fry]

Your right if I could! I would spend more than $25 on that if I would get the chance at that tag!

 

[JoshJ]

I was just thinkin about people like my wife(tight wad) who would be willing to drop 5 bucks in the hat, but 25 is to much.

 

[Founder]

Unfortunately, the proof is there that draw tags don't raise the money like auction tags. Believe me, if raffling tags raised as much money as auctioning those same tags, Don would be getting the laws changed to raise more money off those tags. If raising or making money is the goal, auctioning the tags is the way to do it. If making them available to the largest number of sportsmen is the goal, then a draw or raffle is the better option.

Last time I looked, the Utah Sportsman's tag draw had around 6k applicants and $5.00. That's $30k gross. Even if the average person could buy 5 entries, and they did, it stil wouldn't raise as much money as the auction tag. AND, the auction tag costs far less to deal with than 6K applications, fund processing, all the rest. How many people are going to throw $25.00 at a 1 in 6,000 draw? Not many. They get 6k now cause it's only $5.00.

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com

 

[JoshJ]

Ok, but that 6k people were Utah residents only. I wonder how many non-residents would put in? Probably not enough.

 

[mtnview]

Was at the expo banquets and the same thoughts occurred to me, so I did the math. Last year the drawing raise $965k, $5 for each entry for each tag. One of our party tallied the auctions as they were happening and one night was $1.6m. There were 55 Utah tags in all auctions and 200 for the drawings. My jury is still out on the entire concept.

 

[hossblur]

>Unfortunately, the proof is there that
>draw tags don't raise the
>money like auction tags. Believe
>me, if raffling tags raised
>as much money as auctioning
>those same tags, Don would
>be getting the laws changed
>to raise more money off
>those tags. If raising or
>making money is the goal,
>auctioning the tags is the
>way to do it. If
>making them available to the
>largest number of sportsmen is
>the goal, then a draw
>or raffle is the better
>option.
>
>Last time I looked, the Utah
>Sportsman's tag draw had around
>6k applicants and $5.00. That's
>$30k gross. Even if the
>average person could buy 5
>entries, and they did, it
>stil wouldn't raise as much
>money as the auction tag.
>AND, the auction tag costs
>far less to deal with
>than 6K applications, fund processing,
>all the rest. How many
>people are going to throw
>$25.00 at a 1 in
>6,000 draw? Not many. They
>get 6k now cause it's
>only $5.00.
>
>Brian Latturner
>MonsterMuleys.com


Really!!(Sarcastic voice tone) They don't raffle tags because there isn't a guarantee. In Vegas the millions who drop the kids inheritance built the city. However if you can get a few highrollers who will guarantee their play its easier,and its guaranteed.
SFW can tell the state how much the Antelope Island tag will go for because one of their deep pockets told Don that is what he guaranteed to pay. Thats why the law was changed. Notice we don't hunt antelope out there(despite some really nice goats) because no one guaranteed Don enough money for one. SFW cares nothing about the common guy, they prove it every year, so why would they want a raffle?

When they came for the road hunters I was not one so I said nothing. When they came for the oppurtunists I was not one so I said nothing. When they came for the public land hunters I was not one so I said nothing. When they came for me there was no one left to say anything!