THEY GOT KNOWLTON!!!

So he walked in an open door and made phone calls?

And they know he made phone calls because.....the phone companies turned over his records?

Lots of dudes did stupid chit, and should sit in prison for it, but why am I the only one worried more about the surveillance state?
 
hossblur said:
So he walked in an open door and made phone calls?

And they know he made phone calls because.....the phone companies turned over his records?

Lots of dudes did stupid chit, and should sit in prison for it, but why am I the only one worried more about the surveillance state?
Click to expand...
Toss your phone then. The hypocrisy of someone carrying a cell phone and complaining about privacy is almost as silly as someone taking a selfie while trespassing.
 
hossblur said:
Lots of dudes did stupid chit, and should sit in prison for it, but why am I the only one worried more about the surveillance state?
Click to expand...
There's no expectation of privacy during the commission of a crime. If they have enough reasonable suspicion to get a warrant from a judge for phone records I don't have a problem with it.

Half these guys posted the videos of themselves on publicly viewable social media.
 
BRAGGIN Rights!




grizzly said:
There's no expectation of privacy during the commission of a crime. If they have enough reasonable suspicion to get a warrant from a judge for phone records I don't have a problem with it.

Half these guys posted the videos of themselves on publicly viewable social media.
Click to expand...
 
Bluehair said:
Toss your phone then. The hypocrisy of someone carrying a cell phone and complaining about privacy is almost as silly as someone taking a selfie while trespassing.
Click to expand...
Carrying a cell phone is a convenience for you, not a tether and leash used by a crybaby surveillance junkie government.
 
grizzly said:
There's no expectation of privacy during the commission of a crime. If they have enough reasonable suspicion to get a warrant from a judge for phone records I don't have a problem with it.

Half these guys posted the videos of themselves on publicly viewable social media.
Click to expand...
Guess you missed the whole FBI FISA fraud deal huh?
 
I believe that’s the world we wished we lived in. I’m guilty too - I gave up a little voluntarily when I got my CCW for example.
 
hossblur said:
Do I have proof the FBI is dirty? Should we ask Trump, John Lennon, or MLK?
Click to expand...
What happened under Nixon and J Edgar Hoover over five decades ago has absolutely NOTHING to do with FISA warrants from the Bush years implemented for crimes during the Trump years. Yet trying to inject Trump into a conversation about "dirty" government is ironic, asinine, and doesn't warrant a response.... plus @Founder doesn't want it anyway so I'll leave it out there dangling. Plus you have no evidence the FISA Warrants you referenced were even used, which I don't they were because they're not for that purpose.

If you have a problem with the government using in court the cell phone data from people who tried to overthrow our government then you're even further out in the weeds than the ACLU and there's nothing I can do for you except say I disagree.
 
grizzly said:
What happened under Nixon and J Edgar Hoover over five decades ago has absolutely NOTHING to do with FISA warrants from the Bush years implemented for crimes during the Trump years. Yet trying to inject Trump into a conversation about "dirty" government is ironic, asinine, and doesn't warrant a response.... plus @Founder doesn't want it anyway so I'll leave it out there dangling. Plus you have no evidence the FISA Warrants you referenced were even used, which I don't they were because they're not for that purpose.

If you have a problem with the government using in court the cell phone data from people who tried to overthrow our government then you're even further out in the weeds than the ACLU and there's nothing I can do for you except say I disagree.
Click to expand...

The Inspector General’s Disturbing FISA Memo

It appears that the facts presented in a lot of FISA applications are not reliable.
www.lawfareblog.com www.lawfareblog.com
 
grizzly said:
What happened under Nixon and J Edgar Hoover over five decades ago has absolutely NOTHING to do with FISA warrants from the Bush years implemented for crimes during the Trump years. Yet trying to inject Trump into a conversation about "dirty" government is ironic, asinine, and doesn't warrant a response.... plus @Founder doesn't want it anyway so I'll leave it out there dangling. Plus you have no evidence the FISA Warrants you referenced were even used, which I don't they were because they're not for that purpose.

If you have a problem with the government using in court the cell phone data from people who tried to overthrow our government then you're even further out in the weeds than the ACLU and there's nothing I can do for you except say I disagree.
Click to expand...
www.ksl.com

Sen. Mike Lee questions how FBI is tracking down people in Capitol riot investigation

Sen. Mike Lee suggested to Director Christopher Wray that the FBI might be inappropriately interviewing people who didn't enter the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6.
www.ksl.com www.ksl.com
 
grizzly said:
What happened under Nixon and J Edgar Hoover over five decades ago has absolutely NOTHING to do with FISA warrants from the Bush years implemented for crimes during the Trump years. Yet trying to inject Trump into a conversation about "dirty" government is ironic, asinine, and doesn't warrant a response.... plus @Founder doesn't want it anyway so I'll leave it out there dangling. Plus you have no evidence the FISA Warrants you referenced were even used, which I don't they were because they're not for that purpose.

If you have a problem with the government using in court the cell phone data from people who tried to overthrow our government then you're even further out in the weeds than the ACLU and there's nothing I can do for you except say I disagree.
Click to expand...


FISA is a secret court. There's no way to know if a FISA warrant is issued. I do know, that facial recognition, and cell tower metadata collection, happen. Will Chris Wray admit to it? No. But then neither did James Comey.
 
hossblur said:
FISA is a secret court. There's no way to know if a FISA warrant is issued. I do know, that facial recognition, and cell tower metadata collection, happen. Will Chris Wray admit to it? No. But then neither did James Comey.
Click to expand...
FISA is The Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act. It's not used in the surveillance of Americans communication with other Americans on US Soil. You keep talking about FISA but you have absolutely NO evidence it has been used at all regarding the January 6th attack on the Capitol. I've said it multiple times, you have no reason to believe FISA has been used and it expressly is NOT the purpose of FISA to be used in this way... plus it would be superfluous.

FISA is an acronym that is not related to this at all... just like the Nixon Administration's surveillance of political opposition over 50 years ago. It's a red herring in a poor argument.

If you think warrants were ill-gotten then request the court records... I'm sure the defendant's attorneys are all over it though. To say that a FISA Warrant was used here with no evidence carries no water.
 
hossblur said:

The Inspector General’s Disturbing FISA Memo

It appears that the facts presented in a lot of FISA applications are not reliable.
www.lawfareblog.com www.lawfareblog.com
Click to expand...
My favorite line from this article...

"No, it’s not political spying on the Trump campaign or anything like that. Notwithstanding the idiotic Justice Department statement on Tuesday—which claimed that the FBI’s FISA abuse “resulted in one of the greatest political travesties in American history”—there’s still no evidence of political abuse of FISA. Rather, the problem is a far more general one: It appears that the facts presented in a lot of FISA applications are not reliably accurate."
 
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elkassassin said:
Hey grizzly?

Do You Argue with your Wife like You Argue with us?:D
Click to expand...
??? If she were to make claims with absolutely no evidence, I'd ask her to supply the evidence. If she then brought up J Edgar Hoover then I'd say that has nothing to do with this discussion at all. But if you go back and read my post, I ended with saying that all I can do is say I disagree.

Ultimately, it's just fun to play devil's advocate on MM during half time of the Jazz game. Plus, it helps limit some of the Fake News that gets going in the Echo Chamber here.
 
hossblur said:
FISA is a secret court. There's no way to know if a FISA warrant is issued.
Click to expand...
This is partially correct. If information from a FISA Warrant is used in a prosecution, the defendant is notified of the existence of the FISA Warrant.
 
grizzly said:
??? If she were to make claims with absolutely no evidence, I'd ask her to supply the evidence. If she then brought up J Edgar Hoover then I'd say that has nothing to do with this discussion at all. But if you go back and read my post, I ended with saying that all I can do is say I disagree.

Ultimately, it's just fun to play devil's advocate on MM during half time of the Jazz game. Plus, it helps limit some of the Fake News that gets going in the Echo Chamber here.
Click to expand...
www.law.com

Ex-FBI Lawyer Pleads Guilty to Falsifying Document in Russia Probe | National Law Journal

Sentencing is set for Dec. 10 in U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia. The former FBI lawyer, Kevin Clinesmith, is represented by MoloLamken's Justin Shur.
www.law.com www.law.com
 
grizzly said:
??? If she were to make claims with absolutely no evidence, I'd ask her to supply the evidence. If she then brought up J Edgar Hoover then I'd say that has nothing to do with this discussion at all. But if you go back and read my post, I ended with saying that all I can do is say I disagree.

Ultimately, it's just fun to play devil's advocate on MM during half time of the Jazz game. Plus, it helps limit some of the Fake News that gets going in the Echo Chamber here.
Click to expand...
www.usatoday.com

Ex-Trump campaign adviser Carter Page sues FBI, Comey, McCabe and others for $75M over Russia probe surveillance

Earlier this year, the Justice Department found it had “insufficient” cause to wiretap Page during its probe into Russian election interference.
www.usatoday.com
 
I mean that's just Trump stuff. We could discuss Ruby Ridge, if Grizz wants. Yes. The FBI is dirty. Or more correct, the leadership at the FBI is. As to FISA, Carter Page currently has a lawsuit pending, I guess we will see if the FBI took a FISA out on a CIA asset. I'm betting about $75 million, the answer is yes.
 
hossblur said:
I mean that's just Trump stuff. We could discuss Ruby Ridge, if Grizz wants. Yes. The FBI is dirty. Or more correct, the leadership at the FBI is. As to FISA, Carter Page currently has a lawsuit pending, I guess we will see if the FBI took a FISA out on a CIA asset. I'm betting about $75 million, the answer is yes.
Click to expand...
You keep missing my point entirely. FISA is Foreign Intelligence. There's almost no chance FISA warrants were issued on the Capitol losers. Your very first post mentioning FISA was met with my question as to whether you have any evidence FISA warrants were issued. You then tried to discuss MLK, which is now Ruby Ridge. You keep trying to deflect and move the goal posts.

Saying the Capitol seditionists have anything to do with FISA makes as much sense as saying HIPAA or AAA... they're just letters, but not related to this topic.

Feel free to start an anti-FBI thread if you want though.
 
grizzly said:
You keep missing my point entirely. FISA is Foreign Intelligence. There's almost no chance FISA warrants were issued on the Capitol losers. Your very first post mentioning FISA was met with my question as to whether you have any evidence FISA warrants were issued. You then tried to discuss MLK, which is now Ruby Ridge. You keep trying to deflect and move the goal posts.

Saying the Capitol seditionists have anything to do with FISA makes as much sense as saying HIPAA or AAA... they're just letters, but not related to this topic.

Feel free to start an anti-FBI thread if you want though.
Click to expand...
I'll talk SLOOOOWWWW. Carter Page an AMERICAN CITIZEN, had a FISA. George Papadopoulos, most likely did as well. Mike Flynn, HAD A FISA.

All 3were AMERICAN CITIZENS.

No, NO ONE knows who got FISA. That doesn't get disclosed.

Yes. Because I guess somehow you missed it, the state department, CIA, and FBI bypass "domestic" spying laws by simply outsourcing to a 5 I country.

So, again, I can say, THE FBI, used FISA to spy(wiretap, cell tower trace, etc,) at least 3 American Citizens during Russia gate.

So is it unthinkable that the same agency would skip past laws applying to American Citizens, by simply using international sources? No. The proof is in the pudding.

And ya. I'm not the only one asking, YOUR own Senator asked Chris Wray, 3weeks ago. To which the answer was a non answer.

I'm not a lawyer, but I believe the saying is "never ask a question you don't already know the answer to"?

I'm not pro jackwagon attacking the Capitol. But I'm pretty damn leary of all the expanded rules thanks to patriot act, and the few that followed.

Now I'm sure you'll post some quip, about some unrelated topic. I posted sourced info. I can do that all day. There was multiple investigation s into FBI malficennse. Multiple firings. And criminal charges brought and plead to.

There's supposedly another investigation published end of month, Durham.

Thing is, I know you know all this, I know your well read. But, you like to find minor, tangential points to make.

So. Prove they didn't use FISA.
 
hossblur said:
I'll talk SLOOOOWWWW. Carter Page an AMERICAN CITIZEN, had a FISA. George Papadopoulos, most likely did as well. Mike Flynn, HAD A FISA.

All 3were AMERICAN CITIZENS.

No, NO ONE knows who got FISA. That doesn't get disclosed.

Yes. Because I guess somehow you missed it, the state department, CIA, and FBI bypass "domestic" spying laws by simply outsourcing to a 5 I country.

So, again, I can say, THE FBI, used FISA to spy(wiretap, cell tower trace, etc,) at least 3 American Citizens during Russia gate.

So is it unthinkable that the same agency would skip past laws applying to American Citizens, by simply using international sources? No. The proof is in the pudding.

And ya. I'm not the only one asking, YOUR own Senator asked Chris Wray, 3weeks ago. To which the answer was a non answer.

I'm not a lawyer, but I believe the saying is "never ask a question you don't already know the answer to"?

I'm not pro jackwagon attacking the Capitol. But I'm pretty damn leary of all the expanded rules thanks to patriot act, and the few that followed.

Now I'm sure you'll post some quip, about some unrelated topic. I posted sourced info. I can do that all day. There was multiple investigation s into FBI malficennse. Multiple firings. And criminal charges brought and plead to.

There's supposedly another investigation published end of month, Durham.

Thing is, I know you know all this, I know your well read. But, you like to find minor, tangential points to make.

So. Prove they didn't use FISA.
Click to expand...
I don't have a duty to prove they didn't use FISA, I didn't make the claim. You did. And the "sourced" article you posted said right in it that there is no evidence of political abuse of FISA

Instead of typing SLOOOOWWWW, try reading that way. The FBI is allowed to use FISA warrants to wiretap American citizens, but only for foreign intelligence. (As I wrote in #30, "It's not used in the surveillance of Americans communication with other Americans on US Soil.") The instances you reference involve Russia, as you so clearly stated. If you and I start texting each other, they can't use FISA. If we start texting somebody in Saudi Arabia, they can. Do you have any reason to believe the people who tried to overthrow the Constitution on January 6th were using foreign involvement? If not, they can't FISA.

I mentioned it once already... If information gathered on those warrants is used in Court, then the existence of a FISA warrant must be disclosed. I recommend you read up on it instead of just watching Tucker.

As FNC's own lawyers said about his show... the "'general tenor' of the show should then inform a viewer that [Carlson] is not 'stating actual facts' about the topics he discusses and is instead engaging in 'exaggeration' and 'non-literal commentary.' "

Notice that Sidney Powell's attorneys are saying the same thing about her lies about election fraud, "No reasonable person would conclude that the statements were truly statements of fact."

The people that have you writing about FISA abuse are the same ones that acknowledge what they say is BS once somebody calls them out on it.
 
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grizzly said:
I don't have a duty to prove they didn't use FISA, I didn't make the claim. You did. And the "sourced" article you posted said right in it that there is no evidence of political abuse of FISA

Instead of typing SLOOOOWWWW, try reading that way. The FBI is allowed to use FISA warrants to wiretap American citizens, but only for foreign intelligence. (As I wrote in #30, "It's not used in the surveillance of Americans communication with other Americans on US Soil.") The instances you reference involve Russia, as you so clearly stated. If you and I start texting each other, they can't use FISA. If we start texting somebody in Saudi Arabia, they can. Do you have any reason to believe the people who tried to overthrow the Constitution on January 6th were using foreign involvement? If not, they can't FISA.

I mentioned it once already... If information gathered on those warrants is used in Court, then the existence of a FISA warrant must be disclosed. I recommend you read up on it instead of just watching Tucker.

As FNC's own lawyers said about his show... the "'general tenor' of the show should then inform a viewer that [Carlson] is not 'stating actual facts' about the topics he discusses and is instead engaging in 'exaggeration' and 'non-literal commentary.' "

Notice that Sidney Powell's attorneys are saying the same thing about her lies about election fraud, "No reasonable person would conclude that the statements were truly statements of fact."

The people that have you writing about FISA abuse are the same ones that acknowledge what they say is BS once somebody calls them out on it.
Click to expand...
Even when I say what you'll do, you do it. Almost as if, I said it.

Yes. How many times can I post PAGE, FLYNN, PAPADOPOULOS, before you notice ALL 3are American CITIZENS. Not Russians, not Saudis, AMERICAN. So. As I said, the FBI plays dirty.

Yes. I believe they use illegal methods. My proof. CARTER, PAGE, PAPADOPOULOS. All American citizens. All subject of FISA.

Really not sure how you pulled Sydney Powell into this, other than to make some tangential point.

You are like a brick wall. I can show you examples from MLK to Carter Page, and you will still plug your ears and cover your eyes, and say "nu uh".

If you want, I'll take you to Camp Williams and show you the metadata center. I'll show you how Obama spied on Congress. Spied on Journalists. I already showed you American citizens illegally tapped(via FISA). I can show you names, dates, places, documents, reports, court cases, plea bargains, IG reports.

And in the end you'll say "q anon", or "Alex Jones".

You'll say that, SIRI will repeat it, Alexis will laugh, and google will send you an ad.

But the gov, doesn't do any of that. Because, YOU SAID SO?
 
Hey grizzly!

you May not wanna admit it!

But the FBI is a Corrupt SOB!

They've Changed a bunch from when I was a Young kid!

It Ain't all been for the Good Neither!
 

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