The wyoming whipping boy

[travishunter3006]

When Wyoming is done using non residents as the scapegoat/whipping boy what will the excuse be then? FYI nonresidents are not the issue. I have no problem with the changes, to be clear, but watching residents sing the songs of wildlife restoration on the backs of non residents is hilarious. Let residents have first crack at sheds, who cares? That’s Easter egg hunting for adult r*tards. Cut non resident tags, split up units, regulate the NR in not a corner and make him pay big $$$ to hunt. But after that doesn’t work and the hunting isn’t what is “once was” who will you blame them? I’ll run and find a doll so you can point out where this post touched you.

 

[jm77]

When Wyoming is done using non residents as the scapegoat/whipping boy what will the excuse be then? FYI nonresidents are not the issue. I have no problem with the changes, to be clear, but watching residents sing the songs of wildlife restoration on the backs of non residents is hilarious. Let residents have first crack at sheds, who cares? That’s Easter egg hunting for adult r*tards. Cut non resident tags, split up units, regulate the NR in not a corner and make him pay big $$$ to hunt. But after that doesn’t work and the hunting isn’t what is “once was” who will you blame them? I’ll run and find a doll so you can point out where this post touched you.

To use the words of the famous @SS! ...Cool story bro!

 

[El Gringo]

He’s got a point

 

[DaveD]

He’s got a point

I don't think anyone is blaming non-residents for the population issues- at least not that I have heard or seen. The tag cuts are simply a reaction to the population issues. With the lower number of tags, it is natural for the residents to want more of them to be kept for residents. As far as where is the blame going to go? Same place it has since I started paying attention in the 80s - the WG&F. Right or wrong, they are consistently in the cross hairs for the majority of residents.

 

[Bookhead]

Beautiful post. Very well thought out

 

[wytex]

No need to blame NRs just regulate their hunting in Wyoming, and put residents first.
Same for your home state.

We can't manage mother nature.

 

[mulecreek]

He’s got a point

On top of his head.

 

[elks96]

Haha. If it was not for us residents standing up, we would have already achieved 90/10 and the outfitters would have at least 50% of the NR quota.

But yes let keep whining. The regional elk tags, are a hard no for me. But the more people whine and complain the less I give a rat ass about what happens to NR.

 

[El Gringo]

Haha. If it was not for us residents standing up, we would have already achieved 90/10 and the outfitters would have at least 50% of the NR quota.

But yes let keep whining. The regional elk tags, are a hard no for me. But the more people whine and complain the less I give a rat ass about what happens to NR.

No argument here, I am legitimately interested in what the proposal to maintain funding looks like, to make up for the loss of a significant number of D/E/A tags looks like?

I see a significant reduction in preference points being bought with just the Sheep/Moose re-structuring. That’s going to take a bite. Just curious if any of the residents “in the know”, can share?

 

[BuzzH]

No argument here, I am legitimately interested in what the proposal to maintain funding looks like, to make up for the loss of a significant number of D/E/A tags looks like?

I see a significant reduction in preference points being bought with just the Sheep/Moose re-structuring. That’s going to take a bite. Just curious if any of the residents “in the know”, can share?

Special fee increase will be a huge revenue generator next year, $1950 for elk and $1200 for special deer/pronghorn. A significant fee increase for R and NR cow/calf and doe/fawn tags is well past due. Its ridiculous a NR turkey tag costs more than a doe pronghorn or deer.

NR and R annual fishing licenses could use a bump.

A few dollar application fee increase, conservation stamp increase of a few dollars.

Lots of ways to raise revenue.

 

[travishunter3006]

Haha. If it was not for us residents standing up, we would have already achieved 90/10 and the outfitters would have at least 50% of the NR quota.

But yes let keep whining. The regional elk tags, are a hard no for me. But the more people whine and complain the less I give a rat ass about what happens to NR.

Cool.

 

[El Gringo]

Special fee increase will be a huge revenue generator next year, $1950 for elk and $1200 for special deer/pronghorn. A significant fee increase for R and NR cow/calf and doe/fawn tags is well past due. Its ridiculous a NR turkey tag costs more than a doe pronghorn or deer.

NR and R annual fishing licenses could use a bump.

A few dollar application fee increase, conservation stamp increase of a few dollars.

Lots of ways to raise revenue.

I’m not asking hypothetical…. I’m asking what the actual proposals presented are…… Or is it simply asking for something that fiscally doesn’t add up?

There is a limit to which masses of people will participate. The Sheep and Moose deal is going to fall off a cliff within 2 years. They’ll have to figure out how to make up for just that.

Who moved my Cheese”?

 

[Wyo_Roadhunter]

Just shoot big bucks?? If you can't find one go look somewhere else problem solved.... Even it not being like it once was its still do able to find a big buck. Unless your expectations are a 180" around every tree. I was fine with them leaving everything the way it was before.

 

[TheOneRidgeRunner]

I don't have a dog in the fight, rarely visit beautiful Wyoming.
Are all the new laws going to hurt Wyoming's economy? Seems all those non-residents spend a little bit of money in the state, maybe the $$ in sheds they leave with creates a deficit that other wise might stay in the state

 

[tracker12]

Wyoming and whining go hand in hand. They hate giving NR tags but love the NR money. But they're not much different than other western states. They have a resource everyone wants.

 

[Bookhead]

Yea they're really struggling financially after 90/10......new order hot off the press

 

[BuzzH]

I’m not asking hypothetical…. I’m asking what the actual proposals presented are…… Or is it simply asking for something that fiscally doesn’t add up?

There is a limit to which masses of people will participate. The Sheep and Moose deal is going to fall off a cliff within 2 years. They’ll have to figure out how to make up for just that.

Who moved my Cheese”?

The Special fee increase for NR deer, elk, pronghorn isn't hypothetical, done deal.

I don't think the moose and sheep deal is going to fall off any cliff.

 

[hossblur]

Yea they're really struggling financially after 90/10......new order hot off the press

View attachment 109950

That's a lot of mechanic work

 

[LIK2HNT]

Yea they're really struggling financially after 90/10......new order hot off the press

View attachment 109950

Didn’t have enough money so they had to by trucks with UGLY blue ovals in the grill. ???

 

[treedagain]

They will continue to get my money. I like to shoot Wyoming elk. I am fine with the bump for special elk. Not quite sure the cow tags need to be raised, but would not complain much, they are a bargain now.
Bought a Dodge Ram new in 2001 and am still driving it. Looks like no new truck for me until I win the lottery or Wyoming starts charging me resident rates.....not going to happen on either scenario.

 

[junior]

I like elk shot out the back door for 57! Paying the Nr price I'd buy beef first

 

[Togwotee]

I don't care what the price is if I have a reasonable chance at the tags I want with 80/20 split. change that to 90/10 I'll burn my points and you can blow it out your azz just like sheep and moose.

The slower guys at math are going to figure it out too one of these days

 

[BuzzH]

I don't care what the price is if I have a reasonable chance at the tags I want with 80/20 split. change that to 90/10 I'll burn my points and you can blow it out your azz just like sheep and moose.

The slower guys at math are going to figure it out too one of these days

Elk has never been 80-20...and should be 90-10.

 

[Huntnful]

I really don't mind states taking care of their residents much. I mean of course I would love more and cheaper tags in other states, but that's just not realistic. There's still places you can hunt deer with 0-1 point first choice in WY if you really want to go. Of course not the premium stuff. The general elk being 4-5 points kind of sucks though.

This was a public land second choice tag, on opening day, in a region I'd never set foot in until that morning.

 

[elks96]

I really don't mind states taking care of their residents much. I mean of course I would love more and cheaper tags in other states, but that's just not realistic. There's still places you can hunt deer with 0-1 point first choice in WY if you really want to go. Of course not the premium stuff. The general elk being 4-5 points kind of sucks though.

This was a public land second choice tag, on opening day, in a region I'd never set foot in until that morning.

View attachment 110072

How would you compare the hunt quality of the Nar general to that of other states for elk? I would consider 4-5 points for NE general elk a decent cost when you compare with hunts in other states. I would think that the general hunt for elk in WY is way better than any 4 point elk hunt in Colorado…

 

[jims]

It's pretty obvious who supports the largest chunk of the WG&F revenue that benefits Wyoming wildlife! Nonres support 77% of the license revenue and that's not even with the new increase in nonres license fees! Does anyone know what the new WG&F nonres revenue % is with the nonres price increases?

Who is going to pick up the slack if elk, deer, and antelope tags are cut in 1/2 with 90/10? With severe tag cuts from the winter of 2023 and all-time low license sales for deer and antelope across Wyo where is the budget going to come from to support Wyo wildlife? Why on Earth would the WG&F and state reps ever accept severe cuts in reveue now that they have the additional revenue generated by license increases?

The WG&F nonres revenue loss would be cut even more dramatically as nonres drop out of the pref pt buying scheme like flies once draw odds are cut in 1/2 with 90/10! What happens to the WG&F budget 10 to 20 years from now? What good are years and years of worthless preference pts if nonres tag quotas are cut in 1/2 and it takes centuries to draw high demand tags? Are new nonres going to continue paying high pref pt fees with downright horrible draw odds? It would be like a domino effect for the WG&F budget as nonres drop out of the pref pt buying scheme as they apply/hunt elsewhere.

Outfitters aren't going to ever allow 90/10 to happen for e/d/a....it would be like them cutting their own wrists. We all know what Wyoming thinks about outfitters after this year's worthless and heated battles at Task Force meetings! Every outfitter option was trashed except for the big 5 option that ended up biting outfitters in the butt!

Lastly, Buzz will never admit it, but out of state revenue generates big $ to local, small town business owners! There's no doubt about it, nonres hunters support local town business...especially in isolated little towns in every corner of Wyo. If I was a small town business owner in a remote small town in Wyo I'd rally other business owners across Wyoming and raise cane ever time 90/10 for E/D/A is brought up in legislation!

I've been saying it for years....and still say 90/10 is never going to happen for E/D/A! The almighty nonres $ speaks volumes in Wyoming, neighboring Colorado, and elsewhere! Colorado is the most nonresident friendly state in the West for good reason ($).

A big shout out to Wyoming for supporting nonresident hunters!

 

[jm77]

View attachment 110075

It's pretty obvious who supports the largest chunk of the WG&F revenue that benefits Wyoming wildlife! Nonres support 77% of the license revenue and that's not even with the new increase in nonres license fees! Does anyone know what the new WG&F nonres revenue % is with the nonres price increases?

Who is going to pick up the slack if elk, deer, and antelope tags are cut in 1/2 with 90/10? With severe tag cuts from the winter of 2023 and all-time low license sales for deer and antelope across Wyo where is the budget going to come from to support Wyo wildlife? Why on Earth would the WG&F and state reps ever accept severe cuts in reveue now that they have the additional revenue generated by license increases?

The WG&F nonres revenue loss would be cut even more dramatically as nonres drop out of the pref pt buying scheme like flies once draw odds are cut in 1/2 with 90/10! What happens to the WG&F budget 10 to 20 years from now? What good are years and years of worthless preference pts if nonres tag quotas are cut in 1/2 and it takes centuries to draw high demand tags? Are new nonres going to continue paying high pref pt fees with downright horrible draw odds? It would be like a domino effect for the WG&F budget as nonres drop out of the pref pt buying scheme as they apply/hunt elsewhere.

Outfitters aren't going to ever allow 90/10 to happen for e/d/a....it would be like them cutting their own wrists. We all know what Wyoming thinks about outfitters after this year's worthless and heated battles at Task Force meetings! Every outfitter option was trashed except for the big 5 option that ended up biting outfitters in the butt!

Lastly, Buzz will never admit it, but out of state revenue generates big $ to local, small town business owners! There's no doubt about it, nonres hunters support local town business...especially in isolated little towns in every corner of Wyo. If I was a small town business owner in a remote small town in Wyo I'd rally other business owners across Wyoming and raise cane ever time 90/10 for E/D/A is brought up in legislation!

I've been saying it for years....and still say 90/10 is never going to happen for E/D/A! The almighty nonres $ speaks volumes in Wyoming, neighboring Colorado, and elsewhere! Colorado is the most nonresident friendly state in the West for good reason ($).

A big shout out to Wyoming for supporting nonresident hunters!

View attachment 110074

Just when you thought it was safe to go back in the "water"!

He's back....

 

[wytex]

Why is it you never mention tourism? It brings in more $ than hunting every year.
I've talked with small town business owners, they say tourism brings in more money than hunting seasons, hunting season is just a bonus for them. I've been in local businesses in small towns during hunting season, mostly residents buying food and getting supplies.

 

[Togwotee]

You need to study economics a little. the hunting season bonus might be the profit for the year, take a look at most small town businesses , how many of the owners are liv'in large ? without the " bonus " they might not have a profit or even survive.

What you're saying is I want it all, but I'll settle for 90/10 until I can get 95/5. greed is nothing new , the people who rightly own the land fought with each other for hunting rights for thousands of years because they wanted it all too. some things never change.

 

[elks96]

View attachment 110075

It's pretty obvious who supports the largest chunk of the WG&F revenue that benefits Wyoming wildlife! Nonres support 77% of the license revenue and that's not even with the new increase in nonres license fees! Does anyone know what the new WG&F nonres revenue % is with the nonres price increases?

Who is going to pick up the slack if elk, deer, and antelope tags are cut in 1/2 with 90/10? With severe tag cuts from the winter of 2023 and all-time low license sales for deer and antelope across Wyo where is the budget going to come from to support Wyo wildlife? Why on Earth would the WG&F and state reps ever accept severe cuts in reveue now that they have the additional revenue generated by license increases?

The WG&F nonres revenue loss would be cut even more dramatically as nonres drop out of the pref pt buying scheme like flies once draw odds are cut in 1/2 with 90/10! What happens to the WG&F budget 10 to 20 years from now? What good are years and years of worthless preference pts if nonres tag quotas are cut in 1/2 and it takes centuries to draw high demand tags? Are new nonres going to continue paying high pref pt fees with downright horrible draw odds? It would be like a domino effect for the WG&F budget as nonres drop out of the pref pt buying scheme as they apply/hunt elsewhere.

Outfitters aren't going to ever allow 90/10 to happen for e/d/a....it would be like them cutting their own wrists. We all know what Wyoming thinks about outfitters after this year's worthless and heated battles at Task Force meetings! Every outfitter option was trashed except for the big 5 option that ended up biting outfitters in the butt!

Lastly, Buzz will never admit it, but out of state revenue generates big $ to local, small town business owners! There's no doubt about it, nonres hunters support local town business...especially in isolated little towns in every corner of Wyo. If I was a small town business owner in a remote small town in Wyo I'd rally other business owners across Wyoming and raise cane ever time 90/10 for E/D/A is brought up in legislation!

I've been saying it for years....and still say 90/10 is never going to happen for E/D/A! The almighty nonres $ speaks volumes in Wyoming, neighboring Colorado, and elsewhere! Colorado is the most nonresident friendly state in the West for good reason ($).

A big shout out to Wyoming for supporting nonresident hunters!

View attachment 110074

The same way Colorado will survive the cuts to NR tags they just implemented. Moving from From 80/20 to 90/10 is still just a 10% over all reduction. Just like Colorado just moved their allocation by 10%. Why are you not so concerned about Colorado's budget and the reduction of NR tags in CO? I would be significantly more worried about what is happening in Colorado and the pending doom there... Oh and any bets on 90/10? The outfitters will totally go for 90/10. All it takes is giving up 50% of NR tags to Outfitter only draw. Which really will not hurt the residents at all.... We could also make the outfitter draws more expensive since we will be throwing a bone to the wealthy NR hunters who appear to have the finances to pay more...

Heck any bets on what we could raise for money if we created just one more NR only super tag?

 

[SS!]

Random bear picture:

 

[jims]

Nice bare!

My guess is 90/10 will never happen in Colo or Wyo. In regard to revenue, there is a gigantic difference between tourism revenue in Jackson Hole or Cody vs isolated off the grid communities like Moorecroft or Baggs that get an influx of hunters in the fall.

The reason I’m not concerned in Colorado is because I know there is no way 90/10 will ever happen plus Colo is far in away the most nonres friendly state in the West! Colo residents know how important nonres hunters are to isolated small town community welfare even though the ski and tourism industry in Colo blows Wyo’s tourism away! It’s not even fair comparing Colo to Wyo tourism and nonres hunter $ still talks in Colo!

 

[BuzzH]

I can say with 100% certainty Baggs gets more revenue from snowmobiling than hunting. Same with Laramie.

Bunch of cheap ass hunters staying in tents, bringing food from home, and buying a smidge of fuel and junk food.

Or a trailer load of snow machines, filling up their trucks and snow machines every day, staying in hotels 100% of the time, eating dinner out at altitude, chop house, etc every night, plenty of beer, cocktails, etc.

No way hunters compete in spending compared to snowmobilers...

 

[ORIONTHEHUNTER]

Jims you are delusional. They don't even hang welcome hunters signs around here anymore.

 

[jm77]

If they start increasing NR general elk tags, 90/10 for elk will soon follow.

 

[jims]

Buzz you know exactly what I’m talking about! How many snowmobile guys are hanging out in moorcroft, Reno Jct and every single isolated town spread across the entire state of Wyo?

The hotels in baggs and Saratoga are booked solid with hunters, eating diner at altitude, chophouse, etc and plenty of beer, cocktails from Sept antelope through late Oct rifle deer and elk seasons. Nonres hunters also are filling up their side by sides and trucks every day just like you said mobilers do! I like your comments about mobilers and the same things hold true for hunters! Now we are finally getting somewhere!

 

[LIK2HNT]

Sometimes I think if a certain person on MM said the sun rises in the east and sets in the west. Buzz would find a way to argue.

 

[jims]

I would be curious what % of the WG&F license budget will be contributed by nonres with the new increase in special license fees? Right now nonres contribute 77% and this number will increase with the new special license fee increases.

Here is a breakdown of that WG&F revenue.

Here's an explanation of where that revenue comes from and projects they fund. Notice that 22% of the total revenue comes from pref pts. It explains that 99% of the pref pt funding comes directly from nonres. With 90/10 I can guarantee pref pt revenue will go into the toilet as nonres raise their middle finger to paying higher fees for tags, nonres limited tags are cut in 1/2, and years of accumulated pref pts are meaningless. Why on earth would new nonres want to start buying pref pts in Wyo? Currently the number of nonres applicants applying for pref pts increase yearly..,..increase in revenue for the WG&F.

What I also find insane is that the real losers in Wyo with 90/10 and WG&F revenue loss is Wyoming wildlife. The current 77% of the total WG&F license revenue generated by nonres supports wildlife habitat improvement programs, hunter access, fish stocking, and other vital programs that exist to benefit wildlife.

It's pretty easy to visualize why 90/10 has been shut down so many times! There are major long-term lingering consequences to both the WG&F, Wyoming wildlife, and Wyoming resident pocketbooks. Who's going to pick up the tab with 90/10....Wyo residents?

 

[BuzzH]

Buzz you know exactly what I’m talking about! How many snowmobile guys are hanging out in moorcroft, Reno Jct and every single isolated town spread across the entire state of Wyo?

The hotels in baggs and Saratoga are booked solid with hunters, eating diner at altitude, chophouse, etc and plenty of beer, cocktails from Sept antelope through late Oct rifle deer and elk seasons. Nonres hunters also are filling up their side by sides and trucks every day just like you said mobilers do! I like your comments about mobilers and the same things hold true for hunters! Now we are finally getting somewhere!

There isn't an altitude or chophouse in Baggs or Saratoga. Laramie gets wayyyyyy more snow mobilers that spend obscene money, than cheapskate NR hunters. Fact.

With the tag cuts how many small businesses do you predict will fold this year jims?

My prediction is zero.

Oh, and remember when you said 90-10 would never happen for the big 5?

How's that working out for NR's?

 

[DoubleDropMuley]

Random bear picture:

View attachment 110101

That’s there is a Black Bear my friend??

 

[jm77]

 

[nfh]

I can speak for Cody is 99.9 percent tourism going to the park. Million people come through.
Hell I know a resident memeber that recently just stayed in powell to go hunting. Residents also contribute when we draw tags far from home.

 

[jims]

HOME RUN with bases loaded!!!!!!!

Same thing in Aspen, Telluride, Steamboat, Breckenridge, Dillon, Vail, Pagosa, Durango, Estes Park and other ski/tourist towns in Colorado. Tourism was a 21.9 billion $ industry in Colorado and only 4 billion $ industry in Wyoming in 2021. Yep, you guys are absolutely right that nonresident tourists and hunters are both a vital component to Wyo's economy.

Although tourism is a 21.9 billion dollar industry in Colorado, nonres hunters are still an integral revenue source for every isolated small town spread across the entire state of Colorado. There obviously are small town communities spread across both Colorado and Wyoming that serve a lot more hunters than snow mobilers and skiers. Hunters are their bread and butter.....and yes, they are going to get hit pretty darn hard with all the tag cuts.

The big question for Wyoming residents and legislators is what happens in tough economic years with Wyo's well known boom and bust oil and gas cycles? On top of that, this year is a prime example of what can happen with huge tag cuts from disease outbreaks and winterkill, etc. Fewer nonres tags sold due to winterkill or 90/10 is obviously a chunk taken out of the WG&F budget for wildlife management and habitat projects.

Who's going to bail Wyoming's flailing economy out when 1 or more of these hit the cowboy state? Historically it's been nonres that have bailed the Wyo economy out with both tourism and hunting $. Yep, it's really smart to turn your back and raise your middle finger to the hands that feed you!

 

[BuzzH]

Hey jims,

You ever hear of telework? Remote work? My duty station is my house, my office is in my house. My wife hasn't been to the office in going on 4 years and won't ever go back. All remote/telework for both of us until we pull the plug and retire.

Something tells me Wyoming will be just fine when elk, deer, and pronghorn goes 90-10.

 

[quest]

So the special tags went up are they going to raise the general tags later to match?

 

[nfh]

If any non resident is concerned with money not being spent in wyoming just send me a the money. I will be sure to distribute to these small towns. I have a wish lost made and glad to help. I can PM my address. PayPal, check, certified check and cash is acceptable.

 

[SS!]

For those that found the will power to read all the way through Jims posts.

Wyoming black bear:

 

[nfh]

For those that found the will power to read all the way through Jims posts.

Wyoming black bear:View attachment 110176

Right of the edge of Buffalo bill reservoir?

 

[Bookhead]

For those that found the will power to read all the way through Jims posts.

Wyoming black bear:View attachment 110176

I didn't read his entire posts I never do but I saw the same graphs I've seen 50 times before posted on here so I think that still counts

 

[jm77]

I just thought I would add to this thread the small towns and businesses in Wyoming that went under because of the drastic cuts in antelope and deer tags in the last ten years: ...............................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

 

[Weimer]

I’ll tell you what. The Wyoming resident vs non-residents threads go year round here. It’s not even into something that’s isolated to the off-season. Wyoming is going to continue to sell out every nonresident tag they have. For Christsakes if you don’t like it don’t apply or hunt there.

It is truly that simple. Some of you guys constant bitching about how mean Wyoming is to you is just ridiculous.

 

[WapitiBob]

So the special tags went up are they going to raise the general tags later to match?

All special price licenses are going up in 2024.

 

[jims]

Big game hunting in Wyoming a $300 million industry​

By CJ Baker
“Big game hunting is big business in Wyoming.”

Southwick Associates, a private outdoor recreation and economics firm, recently concluded that hunters contributed more than $303.5 million to the state’s economy and supported 3,100 jobs.

Nonresident hunters, particularly those hiring outfitters, generate a disproportionate amount of the economic benefits,” Southwick Associates wrote. “Reducing the number of nonresident tags could exponentially negatively impact tax revenues, sales revenues and jobs in the state.”

One major message from the report is a caution to state leaders about reducing the number of big game licenses allocated for non-Wyoming residents.

Southwick Associates concluded that, on average, each nonresident big game hunter contributed about $2,782 to Wyoming’s economy in 2015. That’s about $370, or 15 percent, more than the average in-state hunter. Included in that estimate are the hunter’s spending on transportation, equipment, lodging, food, taxidermy, meat processing, etc., along with estimates of the jobs supported, taxes generated and other direct benefits of the hunter’s spending.

 

[Bookhead]

Big game hunting in Wyoming a $300 million industry​

By CJ Baker
“Big game hunting is big business in Wyoming.”

Southwick Associates, a private outdoor recreation and economics firm, recently concluded that hunters contributed more than $303.5 million to the state’s economy and supported 3,100 jobs.

Nonresident hunters, particularly those hiring outfitters, generate a disproportionate amount of the economic benefits,” Southwick Associates wrote. “Reducing the number of nonresident tags could exponentially negatively impact tax revenues, sales revenues and jobs in the state.”

One major message from the report is a caution to state leaders about reducing the number of big game licenses allocated for non-Wyoming residents.

Southwick Associates concluded that, on average, each nonresident big game hunter contributed about $2,782 to Wyoming’s economy in 2015. That’s about $370, or 15 percent, more than the average in-state hunter. Included in that estimate are the hunter’s spending on transportation, equipment, lodging, food, taxidermy, meat processing, etc., along with estimates of the jobs supported, taxes generated and other direct benefits of the hunter’s spending.

Nice post about somones opinion. I never had a survey ask how much I spend here and I never heard from my non resident friends that they've ever been asked.

 

[schoolhousegrizz]

IMO, WYOGA did not get their way when they wanted to require guide licenses so then they jumped the price of non-resident licenses so they would always be ensured they had non-residents to guide. Why would this ensure that they always had non-residents to guys you may be wondering. Because, now the non-residents make up such a huge portion of the funding that if they went 90-10, resident licenses would have to jump extraordinarily high, many residents would complain about the fees. When they jumped the non-resident licenses, I think that ensured that 90/10 for elk, deer and antelope is not happening for a looooong time.

WYOGA doesn't care about residents or nonresidents. They area completely selfish from what I have seen.

 

[BuzzH]

IMO, WYOGA did not get their way when they wanted to require guide licenses so then they jumped the price of non-resident licenses so they would always be ensured they had non-residents to guide. Why would this ensure that they always had non-residents to guys you may be wondering. Because, now the non-residents make up such a huge portion of the funding that if they went 90-10, resident licenses would have to jump extraordinarily high, many residents would complain about the fees. When they jumped the non-resident licenses, I think that ensured that 90/10 for elk, deer and antelope is not happening for a looooong time.

WYOGA doesn't care about residents or nonresidents. They area completely selfish from what I have seen.

Wrong. Why does everyone think Resident licenses would have to "jump extraordinarily high"? The numbers have been posted before, so has the way the draw is conducted.

Math must be hard for the uninformed, same as understanding the way the draw works.

90-10 for deer, elk and pronghorn is going to happen.

 

[schoolhousegrizz]

Wrong. Why does everyone think Resident licenses would have to "jump extraordinarily high"? The numbers have been posted before, so has the way the draw is conducted.

Math must be hard for the uninformed, same as understanding the way the draw works.

90-10 for deer, elk and pronghorn is going to happen.

Well Buzz, maybe you missed the "IMO" In My Opinion. Reading can be hard.

 

[jm77]

Well Buzz, maybe you missed the "IMO" In My Opinion. Reading can be hard.

So if I put "IMO" in front of all my comments, no one can rebut them. Dang, good to know!

 

[BuzzH]

Well Buzz, maybe you missed the "IMO" In My Opinion. Reading can be hard.

Math isn't opinion...in my opinion.

 

[jims]

Southwick has been around since 1990 doing fishing, hunting, and other outdoor activity revenue analysis. They are pretty much the go-to company throughout the US for conducting natural resource economic analysis for state wildlife agencies.

 

[schoolhousegrizz]

Math isn't opinion...in my opinion.

We're done here ?

So if I put "IMO" in front of all my comments, no one can rebut them. Dang, good to know!

We're done here ?

 

[BuzzH]

Southwick has been around since 1990 doing fishing, hunting, and other outdoor activity revenue analysis. They are pretty much the go-to company throughout the US for conducting natural resource economic analysis for state wildlife agencies.

View attachment 110215

Lots of analysis for hire is garbage, and biased to come to a conclusion for those that paid them. That includes how southwick came up with their analysis for wyoga.

 

[jims]

What ever you say Buzz! You know a lot more about economics and revenue than a professional company that specializes in this work for over 30 years! Southwick's reputation relies totally on being nonbiased and telling the truth.

Southwick's data is solid and they would be sued or out of business if they twisted numbers! State wildlife agencies across the United States have been using Southwick for years upon years. A couple Wyo res that don't like hearing or dealing with facts and the truth are pretty much the only complainers across America.

I'm certain Wyo legislators are going to agree with Southwick's recommendation that they should "use caution about reducing the number of big game licenses allocated for non-Wyoming residents."

Also, "Nonresident hunters, particularly those hiring outfitters, generate a disproportionate amount of the economic benefits,” Southwick Associates wrote. “Reducing the number of nonresident tags could exponentially negatively impact tax revenues, sales revenues and jobs in the state.”

 

[JB1975]

What ever you say Buzz! You know a lot more about economics and revenue than a professional company that specializes in this work for over 30 years! Southwick's reputation relies totally on being nonbiased and telling the truth.

Southwick's data is solid and they would be sued or out of business if they twisted numbers! State wildlife agencies across the United States have been using Southwick for years upon years. A couple Wyo res that don't like hearing or dealing with facts and the truth are pretty much the only complainers across America.

I'm certain Wyo legislators are going to agree with Southwick's recommendation that they should "use caution about reducing the number of big game licenses allocated for non-Wyoming residents."

Also, "Nonresident hunters, particularly those hiring outfitters, generate a disproportionate amount of the economic benefits,” Southwick Associates wrote. “Reducing the number of nonresident tags could exponentially negatively impact tax revenues, sales revenues and jobs in the state.”

Sometimes it’s a draw on who posts the same repetitive drivel in every thread, you or Bess. I think you have finally put your name on that trophy. Congrats.

 

[jm77]

We're done here ?

We're done here ?

 

[jims]

The truth sometimes hurts! Sorry guys!

 

[wytex]

Wonder how much tourism brings in: https://cowboystatedaily.com/2023/0...nd-early-2023-indicators-looking-even-better/

Well it looks like about 4.5 billion last year.
There's some truth for you jims.

 

[JB1975]

The truth sometimes hurts! Sorry guys!

You really don’t get it. Sad and funny at the same time. Move to Wyoming and become a resident if you are so upset about the way things are going there. You cry nonstop about it.

 

[nfh]

I agree with @Bookhead no one ever asked me what i spend. Hell if i throw the cost of horses i surpass a NR very quickly.

 

[travishunter3006]

Idiot

I see you put your big boy pants on for that reply.

 

[JB48]

I am not sure if this is, As the World Turns,The Bold and Beautiful, or General Hospital. I would like to believe, The Bold and Beautiful.

 

[jm77]

I see you put your big boy pants on for that reply.

Pretty sure his comment is what most residents here think of your original post. But I only speak for myself and I definitely think that.

 

[travishunter3006]

Pretty sure his comment is what most residents here think of your original post. But I only speak for myself and I definitely think that.

Oh no. You’re so right. You guys are mad you can’t kill big deer. Hunt harder little buddy. One day you’ll figure it out.

 

[Bookhead]

Oh no. You’re so right. You guys are mad you can’t kill big deer. Hunt harder little buddy. One day you’ll figure it out.

Are you calling that one in your profile picture big?

 

[ORIONTHEHUNTER]

Are you calling that one in your profile picture big?

^^haha I was just going to ask the same thing

 

[jm77]

Oh no. You’re so right. You guys are mad you can’t kill big deer. Hunt harder little buddy. One day you’ll figure it out.

Open mouth-insert foot...

 

[MrDoe]

The same way Colorado will survive the cuts to NR tags they just implemented. Moving from From 80/20 to 90/10 is still just a 10% over all reduction. Just like Colorado just moved their allocation by 10%. Why are you not so concerned about Colorado's budget and the reduction of NR tags in CO? I would be significantly more worried about what is happening in Colorado and the pending doom there... Oh and any bets on 90/10? The outfitters will totally go for 90/10. All it takes is giving up 50% of NR tags to Outfitter only draw. Which really will not hurt the residents at all.... We could also make the outfitter draws more expensive since we will be throwing a bone to the wealthy NR hunters who appear to have the finances to pay more...

Heck any bets on what we could raise for money if we created just one more NR only super tag?

CPW has $52.6 MM in net income YTD and $65 MM for FY 2022. The loss in NR revenue is tiny comparatively.

 

[elks96]

CPW has $52.6 MM in net income YTD and $65 MM for FY 2022. The loss in NR revenue is tiny comparatively.

But the new splits have not taken place yet. Again everyone worried about WY moving 10% from NR to Resident. But Colorado has not implemented the New Splits as they were just passed a few days ago. Yet again we we have Colorado Guys telling WY how bad a decision it is to move 10% of tags from NR to Resident.

 

[BuzzH]

Open mouth-insert foot...

No kidding, I've seen your mule deer.

I'm sure if you need some advice, traviswannabehunter3006 will give you the what'fer about mule deer hunting.

Classic case of not knowing your audience.

 

[MrDoe]

@elks96 Do you think 10% of Colorado d/e/a tags at NR pricing is $50MM+?

 

[ORIONTHEHUNTER]

After all the whining over Wyoming I guess you guys will turn to Colorado next. Better get your tissues ready because Over the Counter tags aren't going to last much longer and I bet we are at 80/20 across the board by the end of the next 5 year season structure

 

[Bookhead]

After all the whining over Wyoming I guess you guys will turn to Colorado next. Better get your tissues ready because Over the Counter tags aren't going to last much longer and I bet we are at 80/20 across the board by the end of the next 5 year season structure

And good for them I enjoy hunting colorado and if they choose 80/20 then so be it I wont shed a tear or come on here crying about 3 times a week

 

[jims]

Colo is still the most nonres friendly state in the west. Even with a drop to 80/20 (if it ever happens) there are landowner tags, otc elk, and 2nd draw options for nonres. Pretty good deal for nonres in Colo! Far better than status quo currently is in Wyo!

 

[elks96]

Colo is still the most nonres friendly state in the west. Even with a drop to 80/20 (if it ever happens) there are landowner tags, otc elk, and 2nd draw options for nonres. Pretty good deal for nonres in Colo! Far better than status quo currently is in Wyo!

For how long. Your Governor just vetoed the wolf bill. There is ever increasing pressure to no more ORC, then when the wolves, the lions (and high will be protected soon) the bears, are up, then there will not be any hope for anyone.

It is funny. Here complaining about WY 90/10 but crickets on the veto and the pending doom in Colorado.

When colorado falls in the next 10/15 years, and WY is the only state left with decent herds, decent access we will be able to charge about anything we want for NR tags.

Sadly Montana, Colorado are heading down the California path real fast. As they fall the prices of a WY NR tag will easily double if not quadruple.

Sorry but if anything the fact that Colorado is the lost NR friendly state is all the more reason for WY to become the most Resident friendly!!!

 

[grosventrehunter]

For how long. Your Governor just vetoed the wolf bill. There is ever increasing pressure to no more ORC, then when the wolves, the lions (and high will be protected soon) the bears, are up, then there will not be any hope for anyone.

It is funny. Here complaining about WY 90/10 but crickets on the veto and the pending doom in Colorado.

When colorado falls in the next 10/15 years, and WY is the only state left with decent herds, decent access we will be able to charge about anything we want for NR tags.

Sadly Montana, Colorado are heading down the California path real fast. As they fall the prices of a WY NR tag will easily double if not quadruple.

Sorry but if anything the fact that Colorado is the lost NR friendly state is all the more reason for WY to become the most Resident friendly!!!

Jims is the biggest hypocrite on MM. He comes on the Wyoming forum and blows smoke, but is a deaf mute when it comes to Colorado.

 

[sneakem]

The hotels in baggs and Saratoga are booked solid with hunters.

Savery has more people than the Baggs motel can house.... and that's not saying much...

 

[HntHrdr]

How would you compare the hunt quality of the Nar general to that of other states for elk? I would consider 4-5 points for NE general elk a decent cost when you compare with hunts in other states. I would think that the general hunt for elk in WY is way better than any 4 point elk hunt in Colorado…

I can confirm, a genera tag in Wyo in most instances has better age class, and less pressure than a multi point tag in Co

 

[jims]

Facts still are that with any nonres cuts in Colo nonres have SO many options to hunt compared to Wyo. Why am I a hypocrite when Colo is still by far the most nonres friendly state in the West?

 

[hossblur]

You should ALWAYS listen to a lifelong fed employee about profitability of a small business.

Buzz is the same guy who explained to everyone that businesses DESERVED to go bankrupt during covid shutdowns because they hadn't been "smart" like him(a dude getting paid every month), and had a contingency for a few years or so without customers.




"I run mine with a contingency plan to operate for 24-36 months without income...same as my household budget."

-Buzz

 

[elks96]

Facts still are that with any nonres cuts in Colo nonres have SO many options to hunt compared to Wyo. Why am I a hypocrite when Colo is still by far the most nonres friendly state in the West?

HAHA. Yes Colorado has all sorts of crappy opportunity and all sorts of sucker NR who will go hunt. The bigger difference, is that opportunity in WY when drawn is superior that 90% of the options NR have in Colorado. Hell a NR draws a General Elk tag in WY, then can pretty much hunt 2 whole months and at the end of the season the tag is still good to kill a cow elk to fill the freezer. On the flip side the majority of NR opportunity in Colorado is limited to a week... As a result the over all value of NR tag in WY is superior to Colorado Dollar Store type of opportunity.

 

[jims]

Elks96, you know that up until the past few years Colo has been the mecca for B&C mule deer. Unfortunately the CPW has totally screwed that up in the last 5 year plan. Unfortunately this winter will set things back even further.

You are also very aware of all of the quality of archery, muzzy, early high country, and rifle mule deer options previous to the last totally insane and worthless past 5 year plan. Plain and simple all of us know that CWD was a stupid excuse for rut rifle season dates and an increase in tags.

If the CPW ever gets their act together it actually wouldn’t take to many years to return to the glory days of the 1990’s to 20teens.

As a stark contrast, everyone knows that Wyo mule deer quality sucks and is in even worse shape in all but about 1 corner of Wyo.

I agree 100% that Colos otc elk hunting has lots of room for improvement. Converting to all draw elk for both nonres and res hunters would increase the quality experience, quality of bulls, and harvest success. Sadly this comes at a price of possibly waiting a year or 2 between tags. I’ve tried for year to lobby for all draw for Colo elk units. A few years after Colo changed to all draw deer is when the B&C book records were broken!

 

[BuzzH]

Elks96, you know that up until the past few years Colo has been the mecca for B&C mule deer. Unfortunately the CPW has totally screwed that up in the last 5 year plan. Unfortunately this winter will set things back even further.

You are also very aware of all of the quality of archery, muzzy, early high country, and rifle mule deer options previous to the last totally insane and worthless past 5 year plan. Plain and simple all of us know that CWD was a stupid excuse for rut rifle season dates and an increase in tags.

If the CPW ever gets their act together it actually wouldn’t take to many years to return to the glory days of the 1990’s to 20teens.

As a stark contrast, everyone knows that Wyo mule deer quality sucks and is in even worse shape in all but about 1 corner of Wyo.

I agree 100% that Colos otc elk hunting has lots of room for improvement. Converting to all draw elk for both nonres and res hunters would increase the quality experience, quality of bulls, and harvest success. Sadly this comes at a price of possibly waiting a year or 2 between tags. I’ve tried for year to lobby for all draw for Colo elk units. A few years after Colo changed to all draw deer is when the B&C book records were broken!

So quality tanks because of too many permits, but jims, think of all those smiling faces and small town businesses that had the benefit of all those NR and R hunters.

Also, think of the revenue generated for the CDOW.

Those are things you advocate for non-stop in Wyoming, why are complaining about them in Colorado?

Same with the CO's generous elk hunting opportunities. How are you going to explain that you're advocating for turning those smiling faces into frowns when they cant hunt every year?

How will the CDOW survive without all those license dollars? And think of all those small town businesses that are going to go under.

You're a monster.

 

[excavator]

You should ALWAYS listen to a lifelong fed employee about profitability of a small business.

Buzz is the same guy who explained to everyone that businesses DESERVED to go bankrupt during covid shutdowns because they hadn't been "smart" like him(a dude getting paid every month), and had a contingency for a few years or so without customers.




"I run mine with a contingency plan to operate for 24-36 months without income...same as my household budget."

-Buzz

Yeah. I have owned two different road and highway construction companies over the last 22 years, and 95% of our revenues have been with various government agencies. By far and away, the Forest Service and the BLM were the most difficult and bizarre to deal with. A lot of their representatives seemed to have a unique world view that did not match reality and certainly not that of a contractor. The career employees were the worst. On top of that, most of them were not prepared to manage or inspect anything beyond a logging road. Again, we were a successful government contractor that had good relationships with numerous state, federal, county, and city agencies but we eventually decided it was not worth it to bid on projects that were managed in house by the BLM or Forest Service. Luckily for us, the BLM and the Forest Service bring in the Federal Highway Administration to manage the bigger, more complex projects and those were the projects we were most interested in. In those cases, we generally only had to deal with the Forest Service at the pre construction meeting and the final walkthrough.

It's not surprising that Buzz is a career Forest Service employee.

 

[grosventrehunter]

Elks96, you know that up until the past few years Colo has been the mecca for B&C mule deer. Unfortunately the CPW has totally screwed that up in the last 5 year plan. Unfortunately this winter will set things back even further.

You are also very aware of all of the quality of archery, muzzy, early high country, and rifle mule deer options previous to the last totally insane and worthless past 5 year plan. Plain and simple all of us know that CWD was a stupid excuse for rut rifle season dates and an increase in tags.

If the CPW ever gets their act together it actually wouldn’t take to many years to return to the glory days of the 1990’s to 20teens.

As a stark contrast, everyone knows that Wyo mule deer quality sucks and is in even worse shape in all but about 1 corner of Wyo.

I agree 100% that Colos otc elk hunting has lots of room for improvement. Converting to all draw elk for both nonres and res hunters would increase the quality experience, quality of bulls, and harvest success. Sadly this comes at a price of possibly waiting a year or 2 between tags. I’ve tried for year to lobby for all draw for Colo elk units. A few years after Colo changed to all draw deer is when the B&C book records were broken!

Why more posts in the Wyoming forum than Colorado? Is it because you have can lie and cheat high point holders much easier in Wyoming than Colorado? Have I mentioned anything about you being a hypocrite?

 

[jims]

Buzz, have you ever seen 1 post of mine that advocates against nonres opportunity and small town and game management revenue....,heck no! Like usual, you have no clue and twist and turn things to try to make me look bad! I am obviously all in favor of revenue benefits to small town business owners and CPW by nonres $.

Plain and simple, Colo is a nonres paradise compared to Wyoming. OTC elk, landowner tags, 2nd draw tags, 80/20 (at worse for d/e/a) ....that's a pretty darn long list of nonres options and opportunity! Wyo doesn't even come close!

There are nonres hunters that take full advantage of Colo to hunt each and every year with OTC elk tags. All the power to them, but it comes at the cost of a gob of OTC hunters in the field. I'm certain a lot of Wyo res would agree that it's a real nightmare hunting OTC elk on public land? To get rid of the OTC elk hunting pressure madness comes at a cost.

It's obvious to everyone but Buzz that it's impossible to have both opportunity plus quality critters/experience. That's the only thing I'm referring to when I mention equal cuts for both Colo res and nonres by converting from OTC elk to all draw.....and moving away from the current 5 year structure that has sent Colo's B&C mule deer mecca into a giant downward spiral.

I'm all in favor of the fewest cuts possible for both nonres and res in Colo because I'm also totally aware of the revenue losses to small town business owners and the CPW. You can't have both!

I will keep shouting it to the mountain-tops.......Status quo makes an incredible amount of sense in Wyo. It certainly benefits both opportunity and revenue with the least amount of impact to both res, nonres, WG&F game management, and small town revenues!

 

[elks96]

Buzz, have you ever seen 1 post of mine that advocates against nonres opportunity and small town and game management revenue....,heck no! Like usual, you have no clue and twist and turn things to try to make me look bad! I am obviously all in favor of revenue benefits to small town business owners and CPW by nonres $.

Plain and simple, Colo is a nonres paradise compared to Wyoming. OTC elk, landowner tags, 2nd draw tags, 80/20 (at worse for d/e/a) ....that's a pretty darn long list of nonres options and opportunity! Wyo doesn't even come close!

There are nonres hunters that take full advantage of Colo to hunt each and every year with OTC elk tags. All the power to them, but it comes at the cost of a gob of OTC hunters in the field. I'm certain a lot of Wyo res would agree that it's a real nightmare hunting OTC elk on public land? To get rid of the OTC elk hunting pressure madness comes at a cost.

It's obvious to everyone but Buzz that it's impossible to have both opportunity plus quality critters/experience. That's the only thing I'm referring to when I mention equal cuts for both Colo res and nonres by converting from OTC elk to all draw.....and moving away from the current 5 year structure that has sent Colo's B&C mule deer mecca into a giant downward spiral.

I'm all in favor of the fewest cuts possible for both nonres and res in Colo because I'm also totally aware of the revenue losses to small town business owners and the CPW. You can't have both!

I will keep shouting it to the mountain-tops.......Status quo makes an incredible amount of sense in Wyo. It certainly benefits both opportunity and revenue with the least amount of impact to both res, nonres, WG&F game management, and small town revenues!

HAHA... A NR paradise? Paying for an over priced low quality tag that has very low success is not paradise to most hunters. That is the problem. You fail to account for the significantly higher value of a WY NR tag vs that of Colorado. Sorry but while our opportunity maybe lower our quality on nearly every level is better. Hence why we gets months to hunt on almost every tag. Instead of selling a stupid amount of tags and forcing people hunt only a handful of days all over lapping with other hunts and massive crowding, we get weeks, we have different days for deer elk and lope. We have tags that give us multiple openers etc. We give the NR a full a month of archery even before we start the rifle season.

As a result the higher quality, lower crowding, longer seasons, archery add on, and also the random aspect of out draw make the WY system superior to Colorado in every way except for the ease of getting a tag. But when you get a tag, even the worst tags they are better hunts. The worst antelope tag in WY could easily be better than the best draw tag in Colorado...

 

[jims]

As I’ve been saying all along, there is no comparison in nonres opportunity in Colo vs Wyo. Colo rocks…and that’s the main topic and concern in this post.

Colo could definitely make improvements on elk quality. You are correct about Wyo antelope quality but completely off on mule deer quality. Take a look at how many MD have been entered B&C the past 15 years in Colo vs Wyo. Wyo mule deer numbers and quality is close to historic lows. It wouldn’t take much to turn Colos tailspin in mule deer if the CPW ever gets their act together!

As I’ve also been saying all along, improving quality usually comes at a cost.

 

[quest]

I’d have to agree with over crowding in CO. My son had an elk tag last year and we’ve never seen so many hunters there was trailer and horses all over the place. I don’t know how you could hunt worried you’d might shoot someone. Needless to say he left.., oh we only seen one hunter with a elk.