The light clicked on.....

[tbone30]

As I took the Utah Antler gathering online ethics course tonight it finally dawned on me the reason for the course. Now, the UDWR will have some numbers for budgeting purposes. You now darn well they will figure out how many shedders there are, how much money they need, and voila....they shed license is born with the appropriate fee. What a crock!

 

[Hornhog2]

I hope your not right tbone, but it makes sense. I'm hoping the idea is to give some guys just a little awareness, and maybe think about things a little when they're out. But the dwr will see the dollar signs...

 

[Ungulate]

I am open to paying for a shed license. I think that it would cut down on shed preasure and it would also generate revenue for the DWR.

 

[CouesFanatic]

I think they should make it illegal to sell the sheds. It would make things a whole lot easier, and less crowded.

 

[slamdunk]

LAST EDITED ON Jan-16-09 AT 04:42PM (MST)[p]Sorry T-bone, your completely wrong.

I sit on the shed committee for the DWR and helped draft this entire thing from start to finish.
We the committee wanted to impose at least a $5 fee for the permit to help cover the new costs incurred from these laws but the RAC voted it down because they knew people would freak out if they even had to pay the measly $5....seems they were right.

So having said that, all the costs incurred for the online course, the new signing projects that are going on all the WMA areas, aditional enforcement of these laws and everything else will come out of funds that SHOULD be going to other existing areas.

It's going to be up to US as shed hunters to keep the permit cost "free".
And by that, i mean we need to obey these laws, police ourselves and report the violations you see while out there this early spring.

If some shed hunters keep causing problems, you can be sure there will be a price on it at some point.

 

[tbone30]

Slammy,
I brought it up at the November SE RAC that why don't they have a fee. I was told the same things you just said. I'm more than willing to pay a fee (I proposed $20). I also thought the season should be a month longer to May 15th. But, as I took the course, I thought about the choose your region for the first two weeks of archery season, and this seemed to be the same type of thing, meaning getting some numbers to go on. It seems to me everything coming down the pipe lately is financially motivated and I think the DWR will start to see dollar signs, and you know the rest.
BTW, is the shed committee still viable? Do you still meet or will you meet after this course closes to discuss? I'd be interested to hear the results, numbers, etc.

 

[slamdunk]

Tbone-
Thank you for your intrest in the shed hunting concerns and wanting to do something about it, you a good man!!

I can see your concern about it simply being a political move to gather numbers for future sensus.
I can asure you this part was NEVER even discussed within the committee, we tossed out our own estimates on how many shed hunters there are.
The course is simply nothing more than a small educational tool
to help people that may not already know or realize the impact a careless person can have while hunting sheds.
By saying "careless" i don't just mean a law breaker type person, i mean someone who is just "ignorant" to the impacts and stress we can put on these animals....me included.

As for the dates imposed to have to posess the permit-
We chose that ending date because the biologists and the committee as a whole felt by then the animals should be strong enough (including unborn fawns and calves) by then to handle a little human pressure.
This also lets people who are not interested in taking the course, get out and enjoy their sport as early as we thought possible.

As far as the committee goes, we are done until the following years plans are being drawn up, at that point i will have data on how all of this went for the first year, and make the changes as needed.
Two of the committee members are wildlife law enforcement officers and will present good insight on what they saw going into this first year's new changes.

 

[bobcatbess]

NO DOUBT!!!

IT WILL WORK ITS WAY IN TO WHERE YOU HAVE TO BUY A LICENSE!!!

PROBLEM IS!!!

HOW DO YOU DECIPHER WHO IS LIEING???

AND WHO AIN'T???

"OH I'M JUST HIKING"!!!

"OH I'M JUST TAKING PICTURES"!!!

WHEN IN REALITY THEY ARE STACKING & PACKING AT NIGHT,ETC,ETC!!!

IF THEY COULD ENFORCE IT AT ALL I'D SAY GIT-R-DONE!!!

THEY NEED TO ENFORCE SOME BIG FINES FOR JACK-ASSES ON WHEELERS BREAKIN LAWS & CONFISCATE THEM WHEN THEY CATCH THEM IN ILLEGAL AREAS & HERASSING GAME!!!

THIS SHED HUNTIN SSHIT IS OUT OF HAND!!!

TELLING MOST TARDS THEY CAN'T GO UP ON THE MOUNTAIN LOOKIN FOR SHEDS UNTIL A CERTAIN DATE IS A JOKE!!!

ONLY PROVES THE FINES AIN'T STIFF ENOUGH!!!

STILL AIN'T FIGURED OUT WHY THEY HAVEN'T REALLY STARTED SMACKING LAW BREAKERS HARD IN UTAH,THEY SMACK US HARD ON EVERYTHING ELSE!!!

KEEP US POSTED PUNK!!!





"I'M NOT COMPLAINING,I'M TELLING IT THE WAY IT IS,SOME OF YOU MAY NOT LIKE IT,THATS O.K.,SOMETIMES THE TRUTH HURTS & YOU HAVE TO ACCEPT IT,OR YOU FIND OUT WHAT THE FACTS ARE,STAND UP & VOICE YOUR OWN OPINION,THIS IS STILL AMERICA THE LAST TIME I CHECKED"!!!

REMEMBER!!!

THERE'S ONLY ONE bobcat!!!

 

[Clyde Hollinger]

Looking at this from a law enforcement point of view... There is no possible way to police this like it needs to be policed. As a Deputy Sheriff it is our resposiblity to patrol out lying areas, and look for any violations. This includes wildlife violations. We have one CO who patrols 3 counties, and cannot be everywhere at once. He needs the Sheriff's Departments help. Flat out. People have a hard time getting it through their heads that Deputies can and will enforce wildlife laws and issues.
That being said... We can't be everywhere at once either. Our county gets hit hard with shed hunters. I try to get up and patrol the areas when I can. But, politics also plays a huge part in enforcement. People complain that a Deputy is up here or up there, and he used his binoculars to look accross the area. (Horrible! I know) People want to see us patroling their cities and towns as well. Which is deffinately understandable. I believe the same factor rings true whether patroling out in the boonies or in the cities. People are less likely to commit a crime if they know law enforcement frequents the area. In cites, that could mean less burgs, thefts, etc. The same goes for in the hills. If someone is thinking of poaching, harassing wildlife, trespassing, or whatever, and they know there's a possiblity an officer might come through the area, they'll deffinately think twice as they look over thier shoulder.
Most wintering/shedding areas are fairly remote. And there just isn't enough officers to cover the area. Like I said before, people expect us to be other places as well. And we have other cases, and things that are of more importance than spending a ton of time looking for shed hunting violators. We're all under manned, DWR and Sheriff Departments included. We can't enforce new laws, when it's tough enough to enforce the ones that are in place now. Until we can have guys specifically assigned to just patrol for this, we're kinda caught between a rock and a hard spot.
So we do need guys out there doing the right thing. Doing it by the book and letting law enforcement know if you see violations. Get the best description of the guy(s), vehicles, plate numbers, whatever you can to help us out. There's deffinately a problem out there. And we all need to work together to sort the bad apples out. I don't think that imposing a license fee is the answer. It just makes it harder on the honest guy. Kinda like the spoon didn't make Rosie O'Donnel fat therory.
Sorry for the looong post. I just thought I' post my view as one of the guys that has to enforce all these laws.
And yes, BOBCAT, ATV's are a problem... We work em when we can.

 

[bobcatbess]

Elkster!!!

I'M NOT SAYING YOU'RE NOT DOING YOUR JOB!!!

I'M SAYING IT'S A JOB IMPOSSIBLE TO DO WITH ALL THESE TARDS!!!

"I'M NOT COMPLAINING,I'M TELLING IT THE WAY IT IS,SOME OF YOU MAY NOT LIKE IT,THATS O.K.,SOMETIMES THE TRUTH HURTS & YOU HAVE TO ACCEPT IT,OR YOU FIND OUT WHAT THE FACTS ARE,STAND UP & VOICE YOUR OWN OPINION,THIS IS STILL AMERICA THE LAST TIME I CHECKED"!!!

REMEMBER!!!

THERE'S ONLY ONE bobcat!!!

 

[slamdunk]

Elkster-
Excellent post and insight, thank you!!
And thank you for making the time to get in the hills once in a while to take a peek at what's going on. It's nice to know you are involved in shed hunting AND law enforcement and doing all you can....thank you!!

As for the fines-
With being on the committee and being into the financial end of shed antlers (Skull Krazy) i brought to their attention that the misdomeanor fines for violators was not nearly steep enough to make a difference. I pointed out to the committee that a person will pay on average $300 for a good set of deer antlers in the 160-180" range, and the fine for illegally picking them up was $100 at best. Definately worth someone's time to "take a risk" when the chances of selling them and making money out weighs the fine if you got caught. I'm not sure what the end result of the increase is, but i know it went up.

As you mentioned Elkster, it's going to be up the the honest, law abiding shed antler enthusiest's to "step up" and help police our sport, there's just not enough officers in the field to handle it by themselves.

As for a future cost of a permit?
Like i said in the thread that got nuked.....that part is up to us as sporstmen to keep that away, the violators will be in control of an added fee.
And even at that, a violator will always be a violator, they aren't worried about a fee because they will never pay it.

 

[Clyde Hollinger]

I know where you're comin from BOBCAT. Just lettin ya know were tryin'!

 

[Hornhog2]

Slam, Why did that post get nuked? I was just trying to show everyone how and where to get your ethics class done. I guess there must have been some dandy posts on it?

I agree totally with you guys. Shed hunters must police themselves. It is an awsome sport, and I hate to see it ruined by a few morons. Hopefully the ethics course, and simply talking about it will at least make people a little more educated and aware of the impact of shed hunting. You guys are certainly headed in the right direction.

 

[slamdunk]

Horndog-
The thread got out of hand and physical threats even showed up between a few posters, it got pretty ugly and "highschool".
I do apologize for my part in it getting my feathers ruffled over threats made towards me, but i refuse to sit back and take it.
This is "our sport" and we need to stand together and treat it as such.

"United we stand, divided we fall".

 

[Hornhog2]

Slammy, Well said. The perception of shed hunting must change. And bickering among ourselves solves nothing. Let me know if I can do anything to help out...

 

[BreederBuck]

You are always going to have Idiots no matter what you do or how much you charge for a permit.
There isn't a good solution for this problem but don't take it all out on the average Joe horn hound.
Why doesn't anyone ever give ethical courses to
Snowmobilers
Trappers
Hikers
Wood cutters (with their saws making a ruccus)
Hunters
Coyote callers
Houndsmen
Kids sleigh riding ( take a look at the majority of sleigh riding hills, odds are they are or would be winter ranges)
Construction
Pipe lines ( I have personally worked on through the Utah winter)
I could go on. My point is don't frown on the horn hunter when these critters are getting a hell of alot more preasure from other places.
Don't get me wrong about the activities I named above I do most if not all of them, I'm not complaining about the activities I'm complaining about the Idiots.
Let's cut the average bone hunter a lttle slack.........

 

[one_dryboot]

the average horn hunter is not the problem! it is the idiots that chase the animals trying to get the antlers to fall off. and those that knowingly harass them. it is the few that will ruin it for all. it is not just the horn hunters but they are more active in the wintering, feeding areas than most.