the idfg at it again........

[cletus14]

http://fishandgame.idaho.gov/public/media/viewNewsRelease.cfm?newsID=6358


hunt 1021 early buck in unit 39. with the left over tag summery that came out a few days ago it showed no leftover tags available.

NOW with the new over the counter sales there are magicly 13 tags !!!!! and they go on sale today @ 10:00.

i think the rules are being made up as they go. yesterday on lunch break i wanted to test something. i asked about the can you draw on the second drawing if you drew first draw last year. i called several of the regional offices. and got drasticly different answers.

 

[NickM]

At least they are trying to make them all available in order to eliminate lost time to those who would still like to hunt that particular hunt.

 

[brymoore]

Selling the 39-1 tag over the counter isn't a bad idea.

 

[BPKHunter]

cletus,

You know it just get's old the constant complaining about everything here. Does this hurt you in some way? Would it be productive if we pointed out every flaw every chance we get, like say your spelling of "summery" and "drasticly". NO.

This seems like a reasonable, possibly even positive move given the start date.

I will, once again, say that I feel the girls that sit in the Boise office of Fish and Game are awesome due to how patient and helpful they always are. They are not paid to be experts and no all the laws or regs, but do a good job. I will say they do as good or better a job at knowing their product than the guys that sell $50k trucks or $2k binos. I can't speak for other areas though.

 

[Idabow]

This is better for those early tags.

Like Nick said, they are trying to give people the chance to hunt the whole season. Some of these tags are only good from August 15-31. It sucks if you draw it and don't get it until the 25th or whenever.

That ain't a camel toe, that's a moose knuckle!

 

[cletus14]

in fact it DOES hurt me in a ******** way ! i put in for the 40 deer tag sunday after carefull deliberation looking over the data they sent out. HAD I KNOWN there were early 39 tags i would have put in for it instead.

as well it is the f&g departments responcibility to know ALL , ALL OF THE REGS !!! duh....... what a beyond stupid comment.

in the fact of the spelling, my fault and i stand corrected thanks. having said that that is the most pathetic put down possible.

i wish we could all look thru rose colored glasses bpk hunter. but i can't respect a goverment agency that can't even give you an accurate representation of the law. we should at the least hope to achieve that standard if nothing else.

i don't have spellcheck so sorry if i offended any nerds......

 

[Idabow]

You are a moron.

That ain't a camel toe, that's a moose knuckle!

 

[brymoore]

I would bet you could have bought a 39-1 tag this morning instead of spending your time bitching about IDF&G.

 

[A00873975]

Brymoore is correct.

When they put the 39 tags on sale for OTC, you simple could have purchased one this morning. You instead chose to write a pointless opinion on an internet forum and missed out on "your" tag.

Better luck next time.

 

[cletus14]

well since most of you fine gents think you are within the law putting in for "every" draw that comes up year after year regardless of waiting period you wouldn't realize i couldn't "buy" the tag this morning when i put in for the 2nd draw sunday. but hell couldn't get a straight answer on the law from f&g anyway so i guess i could have. rant over .

 

[6speed]

Why?

 

[ihuntelk]

I saw the IDFG press release about the tags going on sale OTC this morning on Friday when they released it. I had been wondering why the 'draw' list showed 0 early 39 tags, or 0 Owyheee deer or antelope archery tags avail, until I saw the press release. Maybe they should have advertised it a little better, but if I found it anyone could find it. Glad they remedied the concern about drawing a tag with only a few days to hunt.

I'm a little concerned that my brother now has the same deer tag as me in his pocket. Guess we'll play rock-paper-scissors for first stalk!

Step in the right direction for IDFG. I would hate to work for IDFG where every 'expert' out there can criticize and bemoan your every move without ever looking at the big picture or taking the time to comment or learn the real issues..........
Not singling you out or pointing the finger, Cletus, I just think that somethimes we as sportsman only look at the impacts to our little spot in the world (favorite unit) and don't look at the big picture.........

 

[DownThePipe]

I'm sorry, but I agree with the original poster. You are telling me that it's a good idea to just randomly throw up a press release and sell the early 39 tags first-come-first-serve? There are a lot of people that consider that tag a trophy hunt, and there it probably just got sold to the people's friends from the office. If you recall from years past, selling tags at a certain time of day doesn't work, jams computers, and sucks.

This is BS, pure and simple. If you have early hunts, then you simply allow people to apply between August 1 and 7ish, and get the draw done. There is no problem solving though, or innovation, they just resort to the easiest way possible.

By the way, this also can effect outfitters who have clients that couldn't draw the tag. So, when people say it affects no one, YOU ARE DEAD WRONG.

 

[twsnow18]

I would hardly consider the early 39 tag a trophy tag... But you are probably right about the tags going to friends of the department, I'd do the same if I worked down at the office

 

[NickM]

It's a trophy tag if you are willing to put in the work, don't kid yourself into thinking otherwise. I guess one could go as far as to say every tag in the state is a trophy tag if you are willing to put in the work necessary to turn up that big buck, bull or pronghorn...


I like the idea of having a 5-7 day draw period the first week of August, that obviously would be the best and fairest approach to this situation.


cletus, you mention the word "law" an awful lot, as in some law was broken? What in the hell are you talking about? The Fish and Game did what they thought was the best in order to get these tags out to people who could utilize the entire season instead of missing half of it or nearly all of it in some cases. I have a feeling this is one of those cases that if the shoe was on the other foot, this thread's title would have been a bit different.

 

[Idabow]

I, too, would like to know what laws we are breaking.

I think its funny that you are so pissed because YOU didn't get a chance at the tag YOU wanted. Even though you would have lost a few days at the beginning of your season. You don't seem to care about all the other hunts (like the early antelope hunts) and the opportunity that those people lose out on. The F&G is never going to make everyone happy, but at least they tried. Next year they will probably do something different to try to make all the people that threw a fit about this (you).

I bet if he draws the 40 tag, he will completely forget about this.

Or...

In a few weeks there will be another post. "Unit 40 help..."

That ain't a camel toe, that's a moose knuckle!

 

[UGAhunter]

I don't know why these retards could not go back to the list of applicants that did not drawing the first draw, and pull the next few names on that list!!! They should just draw a list of back-ups for each hunt and eliminate this whole 2nd draw! If it is an under-applied for hunt, sell them first come/first serve.

I know, I know, they make a ton of money when we all put in for the leftover tags.

 

[A00873975]

LAST EDITED ON Aug-08-12 AT 01:26PM (MST)[p]They already tried doing a first come, first serve on the leftover tags.

There was a lot of push back because vendors would submit the names of family and friends at the 10 AM buying period. This would leave most people without even a chance at a second opportunity. The current system of the second chance drawing gives everybody a fair opportunity at a tag.

IDFG is not perfect by any means, but overall they are composed of good people who genuinely care about the outdoors. Give them a break and be thankful that you live in a state without a points system. Ask somebody from Utah what they would give for just an OPPORTUNITY to draw a Henry's Deer Tag with 0 points.

 

[DownThePipe]

Sure, they are good people. But whoever is making the real decisions has to get off the lazy train. If you can come up with decisions on the spot about throwing the tags up for sale, then you should be able to throw up decisions that make more sense and are fairer in principle. The ideas already mentioned like
1. Have an earlier 2nd chance drawing for the earlier hunts
2. Go to the list of applicants who didn't draw and redraw with those names (hell, Jane Doe intern in the F&G office can draw off sticky notes in a hat).
3. During the normal drawing, draw an additional 15 names for each of the early hunts in case the person doesn't purchase the tag. Go from there.

I wonder how many people that got the extra tags were youth? Probably zero!

 

[backcountryID]

The idea of drawing surplus license numbers in the original draw has some validity, but I think I saw at least one hunt with 70 something leftover tags. Is F&G supposed to draw 100 extra license numbers just to be on the safe side? Just seems unreasonable to me. I do like the idea of a redraw with the original applicants for each particular hunt, but I don't mind giving F&G an extra $12-18 in the second draw. Anyways, I have a few cows patterned pretty well for the 30th and as long as I've got some meet in the freezer it's hard to get my feathers ruffled over some "trophy" tags.

 

[DownThePipe]

Go take a look at the Idaho record book, study the creek/draw names in there, and tell me if you find any in 39.

Go take a look at the thread from 2 weeks ago with people talking about early 39.

Sure, it's not easy, but I wouldn't put it many notches down from other antlered controlled hunts.

Some out of staters would KILL for a chance to hunt velvet mule deer in the high country. Frankly, just chalk it up as decreased revenue due to laziness.

BY THE WAY, LAST YEAR, 10 extra tags for early 39 existed. 187 resident applicants. 3 non resident applicants. You do the math. Just sayin.

 

[Idchkrhntr8]

I was first in line on Tuesday morning at one vendor. Tried to get my 12 year old daughter a 39-1 tag. She was able to get a 32x tag. when I told her the news about not getting the early buck, she told me not to worry too much about it because she planned shooting a big one on Oct 10th.

 

[huntfishfeed]

My buddy put in and drew the early 39 hunt last year as a party. they drew 6 tags, and did not hunt one single day! i was pissed to say the least

 

[cletus14]

LAST EDITED ON Aug-09-12 AT 07:08AM (MST)[p]i love the idea of drawing a few extra names for each 1st choice hunt if the tags aren't purchased. say 10 % of the tags offered ? that would handle most of the really good tags. as far as the money lost, raise the 1st choice fee to 10.00- 12.50 $ ect. , and do away with the 2nd draw all together. and only sell the unlimited and (x) tags over the counter.

 

[brymoore]

I like the second draw. One last chance at a good tag.

 

[huntfishall1]

With the way the Idaho draws work (no up front tag cost and a relatively late drawing) I think offering early season tags first come first serve is fine, so people can take full advantage of the early season dates.

BUT - why not require the full cost of the tag plus application fee to be paid up front? It would eliminate the need for a second drawing, weed out those who aren't serious about the tags (giving us slightly better drawing odds), and the State could collect interest on the money for a month or so before refunding to unsuccessful applicants.

OR - how about just moving the draws up a few weeks.

Seems like Idaho has one of the latest drawings, and is one of the last states to not require the full cost up front.

 

[NickM]

They make way more money by not charging an up front fee and having the second draw then what they would with all the admin costs of refunding people their money when they are unsuccessful in the draw.

 

[BPKHunter]

I too like the chance to draw again. At my age I don't get that excited over many things, but draw results still get the adrenaline flowing.

 

[Idabow]

I think part of the reason they like the late draw is that NRs will apply here if they don't draw anywhere else. Since they now require NRs to buy their license first, that may discourage some NRs from applying.

With that being said, I think they take their sweet time posting the results. They have plenty of time to post results from the first drawing, and do the second drawing well before the early hunts start on Aug 15th.

That ain't a camel toe, that's a moose knuckle!

 

[Yoyak]

Cletus,
My understanding of the waiting period is that if you drew an antlered only hunt last year you can't put in for another antlered only hunt this year (actually you can, I know a guy who drew an antlered tag back to back years, they just wouldn't let him purchase the tag when they caught the mistake).

However you can put in for an antlered hunt on the second chance drawing. So I would take that to mean you could have bought a leftover 39 tag since your waiting period was basically the first draw cycle.

They just need to move the 2nd back a few weeks. Seems like a pretty easy solution.

 

[Pre64]

WITHOUT A DOUBT - however IDFG decides to handle a situation like this someone is going to get pissed off. They can't win. However,...

Over the past few years my problem with them is precisely what has been described in recent threads. I can ask a question 10 different people in IDFG and get 10 different answers. When I call for clarification I have taken to writing down names and dates so as to cover my ass should another official have a different interpretation of the rules.

This is a law enforcement organization and people are calling them in order to comply with the law. People should have confidence in the answers they get. I have none.

 

[idelkslayer]

Good luck with writing down names to cover yourself from trouble. When you give them your written record they will just say you misunderstood and wrote down incorrect information. They will change their story and say they were right from the beginning.

I believe that for the most part the IDFG does a good job. I like the drawing format as it is now, and I think they are doing the right thing by offering the early season tags over-the-counter. Next time they need to post the OTC tags before the 2nd drawing application period or at least before they release the list of tags that are available for 2nd drawing.

I also get frustrated when the people answering the phones don't have answers and it reall ticks me off when the officers in the field don't know the regs. And I can't stand it when a conservation officer in the field looks me in the eye and outright lies to me.

The trouble is that yes they are human and make mistakes but they should admit the mistake. I have encountered IDFG completely changing their answer and then saying they were right all along.

 

[BPKHunter]

So I have for years always wanted to know the true law regarding tresspassing since I had a run in with a ranch employee who tried to run me off a lookout I knew to be public, but he said was private.

I have talked to F&G friend, more than one police officer friends/acquaintences, and even a judge my wife worked with. They all give me unclear answers. Look at Wyoming and their corner jumping tressspass rules, that absolutely no one can give a black and white answer on. So my point is, some times regs are just not all that clear, as evidenced by the amount of expensive office space taken up in any major city by ATTORNEYS.

Funny thing here is how often people seem awfull fuzzy about things that are pretty clear and in the regs like, are you allowed to put in for the 2nd drawing if you drew a Controlled tag the previous year.

 

[deepforks]

trespass law is clear as day. f&g regs do a good job of stating the jist of the code. if you want the entire thing, look up 36-1602 & 36-1603 of the idaho code (recreational trespass - landowner liability limit).

as for a land owner trying to boot you off public land. thats easy. tell them to piss off. but you better be damn sure you're on public land though. pretty easy to do with a gps and lat/long coordinates. and if they're posting public land, well, refer back to 36-1603. talks about that as well.

 

[Pre64]

For badly written law I blame the legislature. Although why bother, as that seems to be what they live for.


For bad enforcement I blame the appropriate agency. I've only got so many years I can apply for 45. If I missed one because they f'ed up the regs......that's hard to forgive.

 

[BPKHunter]

>trespass law is clear as day.
>f&g regs do a good
>job of stating the jist
>of the code. if you
>want the entire thing, look
>up 36-1602
>& 36-1603 of the idaho
>code (recreational trespass - landowner
>liability limit).
>
>as for a land owner trying
>to boot you off public
>land. thats easy. tell them
>to piss off. but you
>better be damn sure you're
>on public land though. pretty
>easy to do with a
>gps and lat/long coordinates. and
>if they're posting public land,
>well, refer back to 36-1603.
>talks about that as well.

Sure it's clear. BUT....

If a cop or fish and game comes out and says that land is my land and tells them you are tresspassing, what procedure does the officer have to go through, by the regs, to make that determination? Not clear is it? Not as easy as you think, particularly near property lines. Maps and GPS software all come with disclaimers....

Is it a citizens arrest? Usually it is by the landowner, but is that clear that they have that right, based on that reg? NOPE.

Some things are obvious and some things...not so much, which is my point, so when you start asking a lot of questions many people will have different takes.

I think a lot of things are clear based on the easily accessed regs we have discussed here about the draws. I came up with a question yesterday I don't yet see the answer to. Can I put in for both a leftover buck and a leftover extra(X) doe tag at the same time like I can in the first draw? I'm going to assume I can.