Thank you Big game forever!!!

[kingfish]

http://www.monstermuleys.info/photo..._or_other_portions_of_the_san_luis_valley.msg




Government doesn't fix anything and has spent trillions proving it!!!
Let's face it...After Monday and Tuesday, even the calender says WTF!

 

[TOPGUN]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-08-12 AT 11:17AM (MST)[p]I just got that on the computer a little while ago, LOL! It was exactly as I had told a bunch of members on the LRH website just last night that Benson/BGF would next claim they were instrumental in getting the Baca introduction stopped that was never intended in the first place. It would seem that people could figure out that BGF has no force or credibility if Benson has to copy that out of a newspaper, rather than receive it firsthand from the USFWS if BGF was the driving force behind it, LOL! What a force, or should I say FARCE, he/BGF and SFW are!!! Here is the letter, as I couldn't get your link to open:

Folks,

A letter was sent from US Fish and Wildlife Service clearly explaining that NO wolves will be introduced into Colorado's Baca National Wildlife Refuge or other portions of the San Luis Valley. It appears that this letter hit the Colorado press on February 6, 2012.

It's amazing what can happen when sportsmen get ahead of the curve and take action on important issues affecting wildlife. Supporters of Big Game Forever sent over 15,000 messages to members of Congress and the administration expressing their concern about Option "C" that would include the possibility of using Wolves to manage elk on the refuge. Thank you for taking the time to express your concern regarding the idea of introducing wolves into Southern Colorado.



Here is a copy of the letter from USFWS published by the Grand Junction Daily Sentinel on February 6, 2012:

Wolves will not be reintroduced to San Luis Valley

There has been some recent speculation that the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service intends to reintroduce wolves in the San Luis Valley to help manage elk and other species. It is important to set the record straight, the service in fact has no plans and no intent to reintroduce wolves in the valley.

The confusion about the service?s intent arose from a draft plan to manage overabundant elk populations affecting vital wildlife habitat on the San Luis Valley?s National Wildlife Refuges. The draft plan references a suggestion by some members of the public that the service consider wolves as a potential management tool.

By law, the service is required to analyze the comments and suggestions we receive. We do not, however, believe that wolf reintroduction is the appropriate management strategy for this area. We have instead put forward three other options including public hunting, which we believe will help ensure that the wildlife refuges in the San Luis Valley continue to provide high quality habitat for elk and other species ? as well as recreational and economic benefits for local communities.

We encourage members of the public and our partners to review and comment on this important draft plan as we work to finalize it over the next two years. We?re committed to ensuring that the San Luis Valley?s land, water, and wildlife remain the pride of Colorado and the nation for years to come.

STEVE GUERTIN
Regional Director, Mountain-Prairie Region
U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service
Denver


Thanks again for showing up, sending your messages and making the sportsmen's voice heard.
--

Ryan Benson

 

[TOPGUN]

I'm really surprised that nobody has commented on this thread because this outfit seems to operate like SFW and sure took credit for this one when it was all BS to begin with!

 

[mightyhunter]

Topgun,

Most folks on this site are suffering from KADHF. Kicking A Dead Horse Fatigue.

By the way, BGF and SFW, are essentially operated by the same principals.

I only partially agree with your assessment concerning the wolf proposal in Colorado that has now been pushed aside.I don't think it was all BS to begin with. If and when wolves are introduced in Colorado, New Mexico, Arizona etc. by the federal government (USFWS), I believe it will be done quietly,in secret and with as little advance notice as possible. Hiding information is how the USFWS operates.

There are a lot of people on these boards who consistently underestimate and downplay the role of the federal government, the eco-elite groups, politicans and judges in the ESA battles. Although I think BGF, SWF and similiar groups obviously use the wolf issue as a way to raise money to line their own pockets, they do provide information that sportman need to know.

Just my personal opinion.

 

[TOPGUN]

I understand your comment on KADHF, as well as your second sentence and that's why I started this thread because of their connection. I do disagree with your "pushed aside" comment because it was never on the table other than one little sentence in Plan C saying it might be looked at. That was just to be PC! Then BGF took that article and ran with it, then taking credit for something that was never on the table to begin with. Also, there is no way they (USFWS) can do anything quietly like you mentioned because of all the steps required to do anything remotely involving the environment (ie. Federal Register announcements, comment periods, etc.). I hope nobody is underestimating anything in this day and age, especially when it comes to the Government at any level! One thing I can certainly agree with you on is the way that SFW/BGF use the wolf to line their own pockets! However, theirs is more disinformation than help and we can get much more meaningful and accurate information in many other places. Just MHO too!

 

[Zeke]

I like to keep informed and BGF is one resource to do so. There are certainly others but not many of us have the time or resources to prowl around and find it.
If the BGF wants me to send a few emails, to let the Feds know where I stand on the issue, I'll do it.
I don't care who takes credit as long as I can take action.
Maybe this will show a slightly different perspective.
As usual it's only my 2 cents,
Zeke

Topgun, you're correct... don't underestimate the Feds!

 

[mightyhunter]

Topgun,

I picked up the info on this subject from an article in the Billings Gazette not from BGF. I think I even posted that link a few weeks ago. The proposal in the USFWS release was on page 8 of a 12 page document. It was presented as part of Alternative C with 3 other proposals. It was contained in the middle of Alternative C and just said "The service would explore the potential for wolf reintroduction for balancing wildlife populations".

You think this was put out in an attempt to be PC. I think it was put out in an attempt to see if anyone was paying attention. They got some negative feedback and a release backing off from the suggestion was forthcoming. What do you think that backlash told the USFWS about operating in the open on the wolf issue in Colorado?

Many folks don't read newspapers or surf the internet seeking out info on the USFWS. You and I are retired and have time to investigate and educate ourselves. Others don't have that kind of time and need to have it given to them. These forums and distilled releases from sportsman's groups may be the only source of information they receive.

I have no use for BGF and SWF and belong to neither organization. However, I am willing to read anything that keeps me informed and evaluate it for myself. A few weeks ago, I posted various links(Bonner County Bee)concerning a USFWS proposal to set aside thousands of acres of public land for caribou habitat in the Idaho Panhandle (Bonner and Boundary County). A contentious fellow, that frequently posts on these forums with you, challenged an opinion contained in one of those links because the guy offering the opinion had been a member of SFW in Idaho. That is just plain stupid. The point raised by the man in the link was right on. There has never been any showing that North Idaho historically had any significant population of caribou or that the habitat was suitable for caribou. Numerous annual counts from Idaho Fish and Game showed 3 caribou in the entire state and all were located on the edge of the border with Canada. A caribou transplant in the 80's failed miserably. The caribou was just a ruse to make more public land less accessible to satisfy the eco-elites.

I feel that many on the boards like to demonize SFW and BGF. I believe they deserve it. But at some point in time you reach the KADHF level. I am also just saying keep your eye on the USFWS, eco-elites, politicians and judges too. Treat them with the same scrutiny and don't give them a pass. Look at their motives and follow the money.

By the way, Topgun, do you think that the USFWS operated above board and in the open when they did the gray wolf introduction into Idaho, Montana and Wyoming?

 

[stillwaitin]

Topgun,
Not trying to argue or anything, just wondering what sources we can get information like that from? Or will alert us when issues like this come up and provide an easy way to get in contact with congressmen and women about the issues? Again like I said, I am not trying to argue just would like more information.
Thanks

 

[huntin50]

I do thank BGF and SFW in their efforts to fight the wolf wars. They are trying to inform hunters. There are some who hate these groups like PETA. That is fine. There are many informed sportsmen and women who support these groups. I am one, and proud of it. I may not agree with everything that goes on. I believe in their over all plan and projects they have done. Glad they are trying to make a difference. SFW will continue to have sell out banquets all over the state. I guess Kool-aid sales are still stong. I have been a very informed Kool-aid drinker for years.

To each his own. Good luck in the draws.

 

[TOPGUN]

Geez guys! I didn't say not to get information from either of those groups. I posted because most on this site and the OYOA site have negative feelings towards those groups. I'm on the BGF email list too, how and why I don't know, but it was in my box and I read it before kingfish posted it to start this thread. When I read the Thank You headline kingfish put up I took it to mean what my feelings were on BGF taking credit for the reversal just like they and SFW did on the fiasco involving the rider that got wolves delisted and allowed Montana and Idaho to start hunting them when they actually tried to get the rider defeated. Kingfish didn't make any comment one way or the other when I made my post and it died down the line and I wondered why nobody else picked up on it, so I brought it back to the top with my second post. I will readily admit that I have much more time to be on the computer during the winter since I'm retired and there is not much going on this time of year for me like the fall months. I just felt it rather obvious when Ryan Benson picked this out of the same newspaper mighthunter mentioned and ran with it telling everyone wolves were going to be introduced into the Baca this year. That was a bald-faced lie and IMHO was concocted to stir everyone up over what was actually that one sentence in Plan C. I had read the entire 12 page piece with 3 plans, which many probably didn't have time to do, and also was being advised of what was going on out there by a guy that lives right there near the Baca. Then when the USFWS article came out in the newspaper stating they were not in the plans Benson again got on the web with that email taking credit for BGF stopping it. Both groups may do some good and maybe one is alerting all of us to stuff that might take more time if we had to look stuff up. Since I'm so far from there I can't see any "on the ground" activities and have to rely on what the majority of folks think about their overall activities. The Utah fiasco alone was enough to convince me I want to stay away from both. Sorry I stirred things up when maybe no stirring was needed!

 

[PleaseDear]

BGF/SFW are all about give us your $$$.....for ever...dance.


They tryed to screw Idaho/Montana and they certainly are screwing Wyo-wolf hunting.

You can send as many Emails as you want to the FS but all BGF/SFW wants is your $$$$


How long does it takes guys to figure out they are not getting the value out of their $$$ nor Emails...


Can one of you BGF/SFW lovers give us a site to confirm 15,000 BGF/SFW members Emailed the FS on this Colorado wolf issue????

Robb

 

[Utah400Elk]

Robb,

Just ignore the man behind the curtain! The great Oz has spoken! How dare you question anything they have said! You should be thankful for what they have done. If not then Don has said you should go join PETA.

Hope all is well and you have a good application season. You can send your luck my way anytime.

John

 

[nontypical]

I have NEVER given BGF one red cent.Yet they still keep me informed via email of all wolf issues going on.NO ONE else does that.Thanks,BGF!

 

[WapitiBob]

Fools and their money are soon parted. BGF/SFW took that simple fact and ran with it.

 

[gznokes]

I side w BGF on this one. I think we need an even bigger reaction next time. Let's let the FWS know that if they are going to have a sub proposal on sub section 8 of a semi official post it note that we are going to get bent! That's how these guys work. They slip these things in a sub section. Then they do an environmental impact study and the next thing you know you have a nightmare on your hands.

Why are you all so opposed to nipping this in the bud? I don't think Ryan was out of line by calling people to action and sounding the alarm. Who else was generating those emails--vast majority no doubt from BGF. I dont feel hoodwinked.

 

[TOPGUN]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-12-12 AT 05:40PM (MST)[p]You don't feel hoodwinked, huh? How about outright lied to when Benson said flat out that the plan was to introduce wolves in to the area THIS YEAR, which was as big a lie as could be told! I, for one, made comments to the USFWS through the official website set up for citizens to make comments. I would be willing to bet that a lot of others did the same thing and if there were 15,000 negative comments submitted that many were'nt the result of the initial BGF email that Benson lied in!!!

 

[2POINTORBETTER]

*BUSHMEN AIN'T GOT NOTHIN' ON ME*

 

[BlueGoat]

I think BGF and other groups were a little quick on the trigger, but to be honest I'm feeling a little trigger happy myself. I would rather be wrong on the front end then the back end when it comes to wolves.

Lots of groups and people worked on the wolf problem I don't care if they all claim credit, keep up the good work.

To everyone that took 30 seconds out of their life to send an e-mail. Claim all you want that you helped. Just keep helping.