Ok here's the scoop. I am going to save up and buy some top end optics. I don't like the price of leica, can they REALLY be ThAT much better than swaro's??? I say this because I HAVE looked through swaros and know how good they are. I just don't know about the other two. I need real field experiences especially low light. I just picked up a pair of nikon monarchs from cameraland and I gotta say they are VERY good but I want a set of the best. Bought them as a "will work for now" type deal. Anyway what's the word?
Swaro, Zeiss, Leica..Which one??
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wyoelkchaser
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It all comes down to personal preference when you get into that league of optics. I use binoculars six months a year, and I prefer the Swaro EL's 10x42. My dad has the Leica Ultravid's, they are about the same price, also HD glass about the same weight, and to be honest I can't see a difference looking through them, but I just like the feel of the Swaro's in my hands and that is what is important to me. I personally don't like the Zeiss as well as the other two, but like I said before, it's personal preference and what is most comfortable in your hands.
Good luck on your choice, I don't think you can go wrong with any of them.
Good luck on your choice, I don't think you can go wrong with any of them.
Thank you. That's what I'm looking for. Honest opinions from those of you who have used them. The hard part of this is going to be choosing the make and model. I almost have the $$ now but momma ain't happy that I think I need something SO expensive.....
L
littlejoe
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I have a pair of 15x56 and 10x42 Swarovskis. Like them both very much. I had a pair of Zeiss 10x40 previously. No complaints with any of them. I switched with my guide for a day while in BC and used his Leica. They were great as well. I think this is the Ford, Chevy, Dodge theory on your choice. Just go with the one you like.
LAST EDITED ON Sep-12-08 AT 05:29PM (MST)[p] I HAVE BOTH THE 10S AND THE 15S SWAROVSKI'S AND I WOULD SAY THEY ARE THE BEST GLASS IVE LOOKED THRU. I HEARD THE EURO'S THAT CABELAS SALES ARE VERY GOOD AND THEY HAVE THE SAME SPECS AS THE SWAROVSKI 10S BUT FOR HALF THE PRICE.
Foreman4x4
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Cookie2, not sure where your shopping, but Swarovski is generally the most expensive of the "Big 3". I'd suggest you get some hands on experience with each bino you're considering, because what might look and feel best for me, might be completely wrong for you.
Best of luck in your decision, and when it comes time to buy, I'd suggest you get a hold of Doug at Cameraland.
Best of luck in your decision, and when it comes time to buy, I'd suggest you get a hold of Doug at Cameraland.
LAST EDITED ON Sep-12-08 AT 08:00PM (MST)[p]I'm getting the prices out of cabelas and the leicas are WAY up there! I have bought a camera and the aforementioned monarchs from doug and joel. Thanks for the heads up though. Will likely be buying the new ones there too....
Timberbuck
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LAST EDITED ON Sep-12-08 AT 09:09PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Sep-12-08 AT 09:08?PM (MST)
As it is at the moment Swarovski is comming out with a new EL which will have flouride glass in the objectives which helps with brightness and sharpness as it better controls stray light scattering. It is rumored this new EL will be well over $2500.
Leica has the Ultravid HD which allready has flouride glass in the objectives. It runs around $2200 in a 10x42.
Zeiss has the Victory FL which has the flouride glass allready and a unique prism design that does not have to reflect the light around as much as the schmidt/pechan prisms used by Leica and Swarovski. This zeiss prism (the abbe konig) is more efficient so it gains you around 3% more light transmission.
ALL of the top three makers have pushed lens coatings,prism phase coatings and the reflective coatings (diaelectric) on the prisms about to the limits.
Based off my impressions and many reviews I have read (birding sites) it is generally accepted that the Zeiss FL is the brightest glass and has the sharpest center field resolution.
The current Swarovski EL is said to have the best sweet spot and debth of field.
The Leica Ultravid is a hair brighter than the EL and has a good sweet spot and debth of field.
No one has done any reviews on the new Ultravid HD and new El comming out yet. I have not looked through them either. THe Ultravid HD and new EL should come close the the Zeiss FL in brightness.
Basically its going to come down to what your eyes tell you and possibly which one you can get the better deal on.
The Zeiss FL is readily avaliable now for well under $2000 in a 10x42 and is as modern a bino as possible, this is the route I went.
The current (made in the last year or so) Swarovski SLC is also a best buy in a 10x42 at around $1500 or less. You can also get one of the non HD Ultravids for around $1500 or less.
IMO go with a new SLC or better bino and you will not regret. And while there is some good glass just under $1000 they are not in this league of optics.
As it is at the moment Swarovski is comming out with a new EL which will have flouride glass in the objectives which helps with brightness and sharpness as it better controls stray light scattering. It is rumored this new EL will be well over $2500.
Leica has the Ultravid HD which allready has flouride glass in the objectives. It runs around $2200 in a 10x42.
Zeiss has the Victory FL which has the flouride glass allready and a unique prism design that does not have to reflect the light around as much as the schmidt/pechan prisms used by Leica and Swarovski. This zeiss prism (the abbe konig) is more efficient so it gains you around 3% more light transmission.
ALL of the top three makers have pushed lens coatings,prism phase coatings and the reflective coatings (diaelectric) on the prisms about to the limits.
Based off my impressions and many reviews I have read (birding sites) it is generally accepted that the Zeiss FL is the brightest glass and has the sharpest center field resolution.
The current Swarovski EL is said to have the best sweet spot and debth of field.
The Leica Ultravid is a hair brighter than the EL and has a good sweet spot and debth of field.
No one has done any reviews on the new Ultravid HD and new El comming out yet. I have not looked through them either. THe Ultravid HD and new EL should come close the the Zeiss FL in brightness.
Basically its going to come down to what your eyes tell you and possibly which one you can get the better deal on.
The Zeiss FL is readily avaliable now for well under $2000 in a 10x42 and is as modern a bino as possible, this is the route I went.
The current (made in the last year or so) Swarovski SLC is also a best buy in a 10x42 at around $1500 or less. You can also get one of the non HD Ultravids for around $1500 or less.
IMO go with a new SLC or better bino and you will not regret. And while there is some good glass just under $1000 they are not in this league of optics.
Timberbuck
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Nikon knows how to make optics-look at their cameras!
The EDG bino has everything the big three have, diaelectric prism coatings, and flouride glass (HD) in the objective lenses.
Have not looked through a pair myself but have read some good reviews. In one review the author said it was a toss up between the EDG 10x42 and a Swar 10x42 EL as to which one was better but the author still preferred his EL.
In another review a 7x42 EDGE was tested against a Zeiss 7x42 FL and the outcome was about the same, very little difference.
The EDG bino has everything the big three have, diaelectric prism coatings, and flouride glass (HD) in the objective lenses.
Have not looked through a pair myself but have read some good reviews. In one review the author said it was a toss up between the EDG 10x42 and a Swar 10x42 EL as to which one was better but the author still preferred his EL.
In another review a 7x42 EDGE was tested against a Zeiss 7x42 FL and the outcome was about the same, very little difference.
I have 10X42 Lieca Trinovid and my friend has 10X42 Swaro SLC's. Both of them are a few years old. I like the way his SLCs feel to the eyes and hands and he likes my Leicas because HE can see an improvement is clarity even though I really can't tell a difference.
I got a smoking deal on the Leica's and couldn't pass it up and really like them and wouldn't sell them.
?Here?s to the hero's that Git-R-Done!!?
I got a smoking deal on the Leica's and couldn't pass it up and really like them and wouldn't sell them.
?Here?s to the hero's that Git-R-Done!!?
NECALI
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Could you go to a Cabelas or sportsmans and try them all side by side.I was able too a couple of years ago at sportsmans and I tried several different price ranges.In the well lit areas of the store I couldn't tell much difference but in the dark corners I found a box with writing on it and boy, then the difference was plain to see.I ended up with the 10x50 slc Swaro's.Not that Lieca was any different,I just seemed to always want a pair of Swaro's and I'm happy I did.On another note I kind of wish I would of got the 8x42's.After looking at someone elses they seemed a bit brighter and more compact. Just my two cents worth.
C
camuleycrazy
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I bought the Leica Duovid so I have 10X or 15X for the tripod in one package.
Swaro and Leica get their raw glass chodes from the same foundry. They are the only 2 companies that can get this glass. From that point on in the mfg. process, each has their own processes.
If you're in your late 40's or older, the new HD type coatings will be of no benefit. Your eyes won't see the difference.
I chose Leica. I have the 10x42 and 12x42. I would choose either Swaro or Leica, the one you feel comfortable ith.
If you're in your late 40's or older, the new HD type coatings will be of no benefit. Your eyes won't see the difference.
I chose Leica. I have the 10x42 and 12x42. I would choose either Swaro or Leica, the one you feel comfortable ith.
I have a pair of 10x42 leica geovids with the range finder, I like them very much, and have used both swarovski and zeiss. They are all good binos, I chose leicas cause of the warranty and the range finder. I'm sure you would love any of them Cabelas is a little high on the leicas try sportsmans warehouse they are cheaper.on_target
Foreman4x4
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I love my Geovids, but the 5 year warranty sucks @$$!....
202typical
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Your question like stated above is kinda like a Ford vs Chevy vs Dodge argument. I am going to tell you Ford all day long just like I am going to tell you Leica all day long. Also check out the site sponsor Camera Land. They have a heck of a deal for MM members.
K
kast1
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there are swaro"s on coueswhitetail.com for 1500.00 15*56
Well, I am in the same boat....I have been saving for a while. I pretty much settled on the Swaros but now, I have second thoughts. A buddy has the Brunton Epochs 10.5X. He is extremely happy with them and compared them side by side with Swaros. He thought it was a better deal since the warranty is, by his terms, "much better than most warranties." The Brunton warranty is a lifetime warranty that includes abuse/misuse. So, since you guys own a variety of binoculars - namely the top three, do you feel your warranties stack up? It is not that I misuse or abuse my equipment, I just want to be sure that I have great equipment backed up by the manufacturer....it doesn't hurt that a manufacturer will backup their equipment in the case of abuse (i.e., accidental breakage whether by kids or conditions). Thanks.
JBone
JBone
southslope82
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I was in the exact same boat that you are in earlier this year. What I did was went to sportsmans warehouse and had him set up a variety of spotters including swarovski, Leica, Zeiss, Vortex , Nikon many high and low prices. Anyway set all of them up outside and looked through each and every one some were easy to eliminate but I still ended up going with the swarovski spotter I still love it now and never once had the feeling I could have done better.. Good Luck
Foreman4x4
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Warranty don't mean crap if it means sacrificing quality. Maybe not the most accurate gauge of quality, but try to resale a Brunton binocular and see what happens.....
fatrooster
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Like mentioned above go to Sportsmans Warehouse and get everything your interested in and set them all up for your eyes and get them focused. In my case I took two store employees outside with me and was able to look down off of an overlook into the Snake River with about 10 pair of bino's. I did this late in the day so that it would be light when I started and turn dark while I was out there testing them all. The absolute best in my opinion were the Leica Ultravids, and Swarovski EL's which were both neck and neck in quality. Second was the Leica Trinovids and the Swarovski SLC's which were also neck and neck. Third was Zeiss with Minox and Brunton somewhere in there. I never looked through any Nikon's so I cannot comment on them. I did a lot of research and found that Swarovski was much better than Leica at honoring their warranty so I went with Swaro. Although the big 3 only have 5 year warranties they all seem to honor their warranties forever and hopefully that never changes. But the warranty is only good for the original buyer. Everyones eyes are different so compare for yourself. I've also noticed while hunting with other people who have Leica that sometimes they are more clear and sometimes the swaro's are depending on different light situations. I suggest going with Swaro or Leica with Zeiss being a distant third. And like I said, I lean towards Swaro because of their customer support with the warraty. fatrooster.
Foreman4x4
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Fatrooster, not sure where you're getting your information, but Leica, Zeiss, and Swarovski all offer lifetime warranties (on new purchases from authorized dealers), not just five years. The Leica Geovids are limited to a five warranty on the electronics, but even they're lifetime on the optics. Zeiss' warranty is also fully transferable to anyone who owns the product. Leica are sticklers when it comes to only warrantying goods for the original owner, but even though Swarovski's written literature states their warranty is only good for the original owner, I've never heard of them not taking care of the customer. I've used their repair dept. twice on secondhand goods and they never questioned a thing. Both items were badly abused by the original owners and Swarovski rebuilt them to like new, with the only cost to me being shipping the items to them.
fatrooster
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Foreman4x4, I got my info from this website about a year ago. When I bought my swaro's they only came with a 10 year warranty. But now you've got me second guessing myself because I know that you know your optics. I'm gonna have to dig up my warranty and see what it says for sure now. I'll get back with ya. fatrooster.
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BlueQuail
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This post is now a couple of months old, but I just ran across it and gotta weigh in to straighten this out...
There is no exclusive source for optical glass available to Leica and Swarovski or anybody else. Swarovski, Zeiss, and Leica all purchase lens blanks primarily from two sources: Schott & Hoya. Until recently Schott and Zeiss were sister companies in that they were both owned by the same parent organization in Germany, but that is really neither here nor there, as Schott is more than happy to sell glass to anybody who can pay their bills.
There is no such thing as HD-type coating. "HD" refers to a high quality type of glass that has been used for many years in all premium binoculars and has only recently been turned into a marketing "buzzword."
As most of us age our pupils will no longer dilate to the diameters they once did. This is the reason, for example, that many folks have difficulty driving at night when they get older. There is a logical argument, therefore, that older users can't benefit from larger aperture binoculars like 8x50s because their pupils can't dilate enough to take advantage of larger exit pupils. Beyond that there is no age issue. Many people retain very high visual acuity well into old age, and can therefore benefit from the effects of HD glass and any other premium optical enhancements.
There is no exclusive source for optical glass available to Leica and Swarovski or anybody else. Swarovski, Zeiss, and Leica all purchase lens blanks primarily from two sources: Schott & Hoya. Until recently Schott and Zeiss were sister companies in that they were both owned by the same parent organization in Germany, but that is really neither here nor there, as Schott is more than happy to sell glass to anybody who can pay their bills.
There is no such thing as HD-type coating. "HD" refers to a high quality type of glass that has been used for many years in all premium binoculars and has only recently been turned into a marketing "buzzword."
As most of us age our pupils will no longer dilate to the diameters they once did. This is the reason, for example, that many folks have difficulty driving at night when they get older. There is a logical argument, therefore, that older users can't benefit from larger aperture binoculars like 8x50s because their pupils can't dilate enough to take advantage of larger exit pupils. Beyond that there is no age issue. Many people retain very high visual acuity well into old age, and can therefore benefit from the effects of HD glass and any other premium optical enhancements.
H
HardcoreOutdoor
Guest
I agree that there is a lot of personal preference at the top level of optics so take this as opinion only. I am in a unique position that allows me to test everything that is now on the market and I take full advantage of it. My recent most favorite is the Nikon EDG. Clarity, brightness, color, contrast. Everything is fantastic and it is in focus edge to edge. I had to check several times to make sure that I really had Nikon binocs in my hand. My field evaluations bore out the same conclusions and that was against the Zeiss FLs and Leica HDs. They are also just as easy to use as the Leica Ultravids which I think have the best ergonomics.
But, and this is a big but for me, the biggest they make currently is a 10x42 and I really prefer a 10x50 or 56. I am going to lobby hard for those magnifications.
If you want bigger than that the Leica 12x50s (not the HD) are a consideration but the Swaros 15x56s are still the ticket.
Wade
www.HardcoreOutdoor.com
But, and this is a big but for me, the biggest they make currently is a 10x42 and I really prefer a 10x50 or 56. I am going to lobby hard for those magnifications.
If you want bigger than that the Leica 12x50s (not the HD) are a consideration but the Swaros 15x56s are still the ticket.
Wade
www.HardcoreOutdoor.com
H
HardcoreOutdoor
Guest
bigmoosie,
Yes, Sir, I have. In fact I wrote a piece on them a 2 or 3 months ago. While is not ususally a consideration in my evaluations, even I had to note the $4500+ cost. However, if you need to surveil long distances and have the requisite three men and a boy to carry them, they are impressive. Better than the Docters and Zeiss of similar configuration. My only issue with them is the angled eyepieces.
Chris Denham of Western Hunter Magazine also wrote something on them in a recent issue. Strictly a truck rig. I do not own a set but I can see where some professionals and guides could justify them. Government agencies might also see them as a force multiplier. An agent with a vantage point and a pair of the Kowas could cover a lot of ground pretty effectively.
Merry Christmas
Wade
www.HardcoreOutdoor.com
Yes, Sir, I have. In fact I wrote a piece on them a 2 or 3 months ago. While is not ususally a consideration in my evaluations, even I had to note the $4500+ cost. However, if you need to surveil long distances and have the requisite three men and a boy to carry them, they are impressive. Better than the Docters and Zeiss of similar configuration. My only issue with them is the angled eyepieces.
Chris Denham of Western Hunter Magazine also wrote something on them in a recent issue. Strictly a truck rig. I do not own a set but I can see where some professionals and guides could justify them. Government agencies might also see them as a force multiplier. An agent with a vantage point and a pair of the Kowas could cover a lot of ground pretty effectively.
Merry Christmas
Wade
www.HardcoreOutdoor.com
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