SPLITTING HAIRS

NMGUY · May 11, 2007

I am purchasing my first bow to hunt mule deer and elk in the Western US. I have a 31.5 draw length and thus am a bit limited to bow selection. I have narrowed my choice down to the Bowtech Commander (same as guardian but with longer draw length set at 31 1/2" and 37 1/4" axle to axle, 7 1/2" brace height with IBO of 310-318 and kinetic energy of 78.11) and the new Hoyt Vectrix XL (draw length set at 31 1/2" and 36" axle to axle, 7 1/2" brace height with IBO of 315 and kinetic energy of ???).

Here is a summary of the entire set up: Bow set at 67lbs with 80% let off, Spot Hogg Real Deal 5 Pin Sight, Deluxe Quickshot Whisker Biscuit Rest, Scott Little Goose Release, 5 arrow quiver and shooting 300 grain black Easton ST Axis arrows with Blazer Vanes set at 4 degree offset tipped with 100 grain Wac-Em broadheads.

My primary intention is hunting but I will also join the local 3D club and am overly competitive so I will likely be shooting alot. I know I am splitting hairs between these two bows, but thought I would solicit feedback before I write my check. Thanks in advance.

springbear · May 11, 2007

I vote for the Hoyt, but only because I shoot a hoyt.
Man with that draw length you ought to be able to get every FPS out of the bow.. 67 pounds sounds a little on the low side? But it is still plenty.
Your arrow also sounds a bit light for the lenght that it must be.. I assume your total weight is 400 grains. Did you mean an st axis spined at 300? that would make more sence given the longer arrow.

I also tried the blazer vanes with my wisker rest and did not have good luck. i was also trying out a new arrow, so I can not be sure it was the vane that was giving me problems.

ajensen83 · May 11, 2007

I will second the hoyt... in my experience I have seen too many issues with the bowtechs.. the guardian looks like an awesome bow but every one I have seen has had issues (I have only seen four)... the proshop that I work in does not carry bowtech for that reason... I have a vulcan and a drenalin and I like both of these but the Hoyt just fits me so well and shoots AWESOME

NMGUY · May 11, 2007

Thanks for the responses. I am going to measure my draw length later taday and expect that I will be at 30 1/2 to 31 1/2. I am 6'3" and have a 79" arm span and will be using the Scott Little Goose release with a loop.

A local Hoyt dealer is telling me that I may want to look at the 38 Pro due that it has an 8 1/2" brace height. Do I need this extra brace height over the 7 1/2" on the Vectrix XL?

ajensen83 · May 11, 2007

in my opinion, NO, not even close... I shoot the vulcan and it has a 6 inch brace height.. I can pretty regularly keep 6 inch groups at 100 yards.. the vulcan, the vectrix and the vectrix XL are all tack drivers... brace height is almost a non issue with the bows now days.. by the way I have a 30 inch draw length and the shorter brace height and shorter ata is not an issue for me at all

canhunter · May 11, 2007

BOHNTR · May 12, 2007

LAST EDITED ON May-12-07 AT 08:17AM (MST)[p]Interesting......problems with the Guardian? I've read that (internet only) but have yet to confrim it.......in fact the opposite has been true at the shop I'm at. Seems like a trend whenever a new model or make hits the main stream and leads in sales.

Fact is, the "head to head" tests were just completed on ALL major bow manufacturers and their bows and the top bow overall was........the Guardian. (PM me for the site that has the test) The Hoyt Vectrix was second, and the Mathews Drenalin came in at a close third. So, the Commander (longer version of the Guardian) would be an excellent choice, IF it fits you well and YOU like it.

As I've said all along, a bow has to feel right in "your" hands.....no matter the make, model, price, etc. Also, it's been my experience these "problems" that have been reported on the internet about certain bows, etc., are generally false. If you want to know the truth, call a pro-shop or the manufacturer himself and ask how many they're sending back. You might be surprised. Just my .02. Good luck and have fun.

BOHNTR )))---------->

ajensen83 · May 12, 2007

there has been some exageration of the problems with the bowtechs... but I work in a proshop and I have personally seen the problems with the guardian..

we stopped carrying he bowtech because of the problems with them.. we picked up the ross instead.. even though everyone says that the problems do not exist, I have seen them myself..

now dont get me wrong, bowtech makes some good bows, he just asked for an opinion and I gave it to him... Hoyt makes a really strong bow, yes I have seen hoyts blow up and i have seen cam lean problems and everything else but the number of problems with the hoyts have been much less than some of the other brands...

imho

BOHNTR · May 12, 2007

LAST EDITED ON May-12-07 AT 09:42AM (MST)[p]Interesting.....not doubting you, but at my shop I've seen the opposite. I've shot Hoyt for over 25 years.....a great manufacturer, but they've had their problems as well. What exactly has been the problems your shop has experienced with the Guardian?

BOHNTR )))---------->

ajensen83 · May 12, 2007

LAST EDITED ON May-12-07 AT 10:40AM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON May-12-07 AT 09:59?AM (MST)

the cam lean problem... we had three that came in the shop for repairs because the serving was being cut...we had another one come in the shop to shoot and then realize he had the problem... I had read about this problem but had never seen it until I started looking...

and according to the internet gossip, bowtech replied to the problem saying that the bushing on the first couple runs of guardians was off and needed to be replaced... the last guardian that I saw had the bushing replaced and was still having the problem...

I saw two hoyts get dryfired the other day, on guy completely forgot to put an arrow in and the other guy had a bad nock that slipped off the string just before it was shot.. both bows were taken completely apart and after a thorough inspection were just fine.. I saw a guy do a similiar thing with a drenalin and the limbs were cracked and the axels were bent... it is things like this that make me a hoyt fan...

by the way I own a vulcan, drenaline and after a while I still may own a guardian, I just want to give it some time to work some of these issues out... but at the end of the day I trust my hoyt more than all my other bows combined..

by the way I think I read that you worked in a shop that sold the guardian, how is it selling??? and you have seen no problems with them???

a3dhunter · May 12, 2007

I would vote for the Hoyt, either the Vectrix XL or the 38. I think the Vectrix XL would work great for you but you shouldn't buy it without shooting the 38 pro and 38 ultra. I think you would still settle on the Vectrix XL though.
I had a Bowtech Tribute and the cam lean is an issue that Bowtech hasn't fixed, and you hear about how they continue to have limb failures more than any other brand out there. I really didn't like the balance of Bowtech bows and I now shoot a Vulcan. I have shot the Commander and while I didn't dislike the bow I saw nothing that would make me buy one. It was not as quiet as I expected. If you plan on doing more competitive shooting I would suggest the 38 ultra.
Either way, I think the companies will stand behind their bows. I just think Hoyt will give you less problems along with a better draw cycle.

BOHNTR · May 12, 2007

Thanks for the info.....I personally haven't seen the lean issue yet.....although the lot received were the later ones. The Guardian has sold in record amount so far. As soon as the owner gets them in (10 at a time) they're sold. I'm a huge Hoyt fan as well, but guys are getting tired of waiting 3 months for Hoyt orders and ordering Bowtech and Mathews.

First quarter sales showed a huge margin between the Guardian to all other bows. The owner hasn't seen sales like this since the Hoyt Rambo was made famous by the movie years back. Time will tell at the fiscal end though.

BOHNTR )))---------->

NMGUY · May 14, 2007

Thanks again guys. I went to my closest dealer on Friday (100 miles away). He is definately a Hoyt fan but was not pushy on making a sale. He measured my draw and has me a bit confused. He said I could shoot a 30 1/2 or a 31. He then stated he is worried that if I choose a 31, I may not be as accurate with broadheads as I would be with the 30 1/2??? Why is this. He also said that the 30 1/2 draw length bow is actually about 30 3/4. Is this true and does it matter?
I have held and fired the Bowtech Commander and the Hoyt Vectrix XL. I like the feel of the Hoyt the best. So I guess, here is my new set up: Hoyt Vectrix XL, 30 1/2 draw length set at 70 lbs, Ultra Rest Hunter Drop Away, Montana Black Gold 7 pin sight, Scott Little Goose Release with loop, Trophy Ridge Adjustable Stabilizer (5 1/2" to 10 1/2" length adjustment), shooting 340 spine Easton Black Epic arrows with 5 to 6 degree offset Blazer Vanes and 100 grain Slick Trick Broadheads. What do you guys think of this. a3dhunter and bohtr thanks a million for your feedback and please respond to any thing on this set up you would change as if in my shoes.

BOHNTR · May 14, 2007

I think that's an excellent choice.....especially since it feels good in YOUR hand! Your accessories are all quality manufacturers as well.

Not sure what your dealer meant with the broadhead flight problems at the longer draw weight......unless he felt 31" was not your actual draw length and a bit too long for you.

Good luck and have fun! We expect some field photos soon.

BOHNTR )))---------->

NMGUY · May 14, 2007

A few more questions:

What is the best bow case for around $100 to $150?

What is the best target, both block type and 3D. I have been looking at Cabela's Arrowhawk (version of the Block) and also the Glendel Full Rut.

Is there any other necessary gear that I will realize I need later on?

Thanks again.

BOHNTR · May 14, 2007

Since I usually shoot broadheads year round out of my hunting bow, I use the Morrell Yellow Jacket block style target. They last a looooong time and are failry cheap compared to similar target styles. However, they are for broadheads only, as fieldpoints can be tough to pull. I prefer McKenzie 3D targets over the others.

Bow cases are personal preferences also. You first need to decide whether you want a hard (airline safe) case or a soft case?

BOHNTR )))---------->