Special Draw Cost!

S

sageadvice

Long Time Member
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I want to go hunt as bad as the next guy but the cost for a NR putting in for the special Deer and/or a special lope tag seems out of hand. What do you guys think?

Joey


"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"
 
check the odds for that unit and hunt,alot of times you are better take the chance if there were left overs the year before
 
How about the increase for elk at $591 for the regular and the special goes up to $1071! As long as a lot of people keep paying those prices they will keep them there or continue raising them until people say enough is enough. I don't even put in for the draws unless I absolutely have to because most of the time I can buy leftover licenses and that drops another $14 off each license. To leave that $14 application fee where it is when most people are now applying on line is high IMHO and now they don't even send out paper applications unless you contact them and specifically assk for them to mail you a booklet.
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-22-11 AT 04:55PM (MST)[p]Yeah, Thanks but the areas i'm looking at are such that i'll have a much better chance to draw if i put in for the special...seems it was something like $600.

Like i said, i like to play the game and i don't mind, never did, paying my share but the money thing to go just seems too much.

Edit; Thanks Topgun, +1

Joey


"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"
 
I agree joey it is out of hand.

But it boils down to if you have the money how bad does a person want to go.

You really have to look at the units sometimes the regular draw has better odds.

I am debating what to do myself.In the unit i have been Elk hunting there is basically no chance to draw in the regular draw but if i put in the special i should draw and will be Elk hunting this fall.Now that is a huge price jump, but on the plus side i have hunted it 4 times i don't have to leave early to scout so i can work a couple extra days to help off set the price.

With all that said still not sure i'm gonna do it.
 
I know $480 ( its less for deer and antelope)seems like a lot of money but in the big picture is it enough to make you skip hunting out west for a year - or hunt a much poorer area ? I like the special license deal. I find other ways to save during the year and invest the extra $$ to give me a better chance to hunt. MERRY CHRISTMAS ! Chip
 
Ridiculously priced, but I do like it. Hopefully will be able to continue to hunt WY elk annually forever. Incidentally, with elk at least the chance of drawing is almost always at least X2.
 
Another way to look at this picture of the Special Price for Antelope or even Deer.
Don't pay the higher cost and go for a place that has mostly average bucks and pay for tresspass fees, which is average about $200-300 dollars on a lot of ranches.

Or pay the higher priced Special and have a shot at a higher above average Buck and pay no access fees.

6 to 1, half a dozen to the other in viewing this situation.

Brian
http://i25.tinypic.com/fxbjgy.jpg[/IMG]
 
I agree with you both and will hunt out there every year where I want to even if I had to mortgage the friggin house to do it, LOL!!!
 
I think that the prices are high. But the numbers of animals and the trophy potential is high, plus I can hunt more often with this system. Wyoming is my favorite state to hunt. If you look at most of the other states the price is the same by the time you buy a license and tag. And the hunting is not generally as good.
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-24-11 AT 01:18AM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Dec-23-11 AT 11:24?PM (MST)

Near as i can tell, next year the deer special is $566. and the lope special is $526. for a total of $1,092.

The regular full price deer is $326 and the antelope full price is $286. for a total of $612.

I just don't understand why they set it up so there are two different prices for Non-Residents to come hunt Wyoming? I do like the pref point option, believe it's a good one and fair.

edit; i will not buy into any argument that people who have and are willing to spend more money to hunt, are more "serious" about their hunting than those that have a hard time justifying the trip, or simply can't afford to go.

Joey


"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"
 
>I want to go hunt as
>bad as the next guy
>but the cost for a
>NR putting in for the
>special Deer and/or a special
>lope tag seems out of
>hand. What do you guys
>think?
>
>Joey
>
>
>"It's all about knowing what your
>firearms practical limitations are and
>combining that with your own
>personal limitations!"


Supply and demand. If the number of people ponying up for the special dropped, they would drop the price. Hunters are their own worst enemy, they keep paying and paying and paying. The sky is the limit it seems.
 
Yep. You have many choices... The expensive points, which may or not add up to more than the cost difference depending on draw odds, regular or special price license fees, or not to apply or buy points at all... I bet they make more money on the nonresident points than the license cost difference...
 
The "special" draw is another outfitter handout.They wanted set-aside licenses;the public said no;so this is the compromise that was agreed upon.The outfitters felt that the special tag would give their clients a better shot at drawing a tag.Has it worked?Doesn't really seem like it to me.Some regular tags are actually easier to draw than the special tags in some units,and odds change from year to year(sometimes drastically).Much like the outfitter/wilderness law,it's a bunch of bull,IMO.G&F likes it because they generate more revenue,and that's what they are all about,so I wouldn't look for it to change without a huge public outcry(and maybe not then).Like it or not,hunting is rapidly becoming a rich man's sport.It's too bad,but it is what it is.If you want to hunt,you better be willing to lay down some cash nowdays.Some people spend money on race cars;some people travel.I hunt.I try to keep it in that perspective.Not too many hunting seasons left here,so I'll go as often as I can on whatever hunts I can afford.BTW,don't look for hunting to improve too soon in sw Wy.In addition to the general decline of mule deer across the west for a myriad of reasons,we had a killer winter last year in sw Wy.Maybe in a couple or 3 years...maybe..it'll make a comeback.
 
Thanks nontypical, for answering my question.

I have a chance to pay cash for a nice smaller home that i can semi-retire in some day. I've been renting going on 20 years but with this economy and things being as they are, some of the lower end but still nice enough for me places have come way down in price. I can't have it all. Looks like lots of shorter 3-5 day trips hunting bucks in my own state, the normal gig, this next season. Points for me in Wy. i guess as the house possibility is just too important.

Joey


"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"
 
Is it "out of hand?" To me, Yes and No.

Yes, in that like all western states, the difference between resident and non-resident is ridiculous, with my home state of MT writing the book on how to lay the leather to non-residents.

No, in that I always have, and always will, apply in the Special Draw. It is worth the money to me to get better draw odds.

Personally, I think it sucks to have different odds based on ability to pay. Some will say that you have to make it a higher priority. For some like myself, it is a function of priority. For others not as fortunate as me, it is not a function of priority, but an absolute function of the cost.

I have accepted that is how it is. Hunting for NRs in WY, like many things in life, give advantage to those who can/will pay more.

Since it is wildlife to be held and managed for the citizens of WY, any opportunity they share with NRs is viewed by me as charitable. Whatever system they design to allocate that NR opportunity is up to them. I play by whatever rule that state sets for NRs, and though I wish some were different, I accept whatever rules they establish.

Too bad that it has come to this, but the western states have realized the demand for their wildlife far exceeds supply. I expect the trend to continue, and maybe even accelerate.

Part of me thinks WY should be congratulated, in that they could probably sell every NR tag if they put them all in the special draw, at the highest prices. Especially those higher demand hunts. That would raise a lot more money for them.

So, the fact that they keep a large number of tags in the lower priced regular draw should be applauded, as I suspect as soon as they hire some consultant to examine the situation, the entire NR draw will go to the higher prices of the special draw. I hope not, but that seems to be a common pattern.

"Hunt when you can - You're gonna' run out of health before you run out of money!"
 
BigFin pretty well nailed it with his post and I just hope he's incorrect about eventually all the NR tags going to the higher priced special draw. I'll keep hunting Wyoming every year regardless of the tag cost because fortunately I have enough money in retirement to do what I want to do. However, the working stiff raising a family with a mortgage to pay, etc. may well be shut out of hunting the western states in the future. Money is the name of the game nowadays whether we like it or not and I think Wyoming has the best setup right now for us nonresidents of any state out there.
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-24-11 AT 07:20PM (MST)[p]+1

I remember back to 1977 when i was done with college football and out of school, finally able to go on my first out of state hunting trip to Wyoming. My Dad, uncles, other ranch and farm friends and neighbors had gone before me for many years but it was finally my turn.

A buddy and i didn't get our first choice but we did get drawn for a area near Sundance. We started off with a thousand dollars each in our pockets, rented a nicly fixed up basement of a older couple, by the week, in town within easy walking distance of downtown, had steak and eggs most mornings, and plenty of cold Coors beers with our new gang of friends every night up town after our hunts, shooten the $hit, talking hunting and occasionally dancing with the pretty gals who came from not sure where but they sure were there.

Gas, rent for 3 weeks, we got there a week early to scout, good eating, our misc. expenses, and a party every night...and i still came home with money in my pocket. Seemed, the only guys that went were the working stiffs like us. Some guys had a little better equipment than others but as outa state hunters, we were all on the same level, none better than the other excepting maybe for those who always brought home big ol large racked bucks.

For years and years i been going hunting to one state or another, sometimes two states on a good year. Been watching close how things have changed and how they been changing. In past years i had to sacrifice a lot to go. None of the money ever came easy and the time away came even dearer. It's gotten to the point, the high expense of the whole thing, that i'm not so sure that i even want to go anymore and to me, i don't like that feeling one bit.

Joey


"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"
 
I look at it this way. Everything has gone sky high nowadays. Look at the price of a set of golf clubs and then the price to play a weekly round of golf. You can say the same thing about the price of bowling on a regular basis, gasoline, smoking, skiing, taking a vacation, eating out at a nice restaurant even once a month, or whatever. I think we all gripe about the cost of hunting, but it really isn't much different than spending a fortune on other stuff that people want to do on a regular basis. I'll find the money to go every year and if others can't it's a shame, but the reality of life as time passes.
 
Sage, Your going to run out of health before you run out of money. Hunt while you can and enjoy every minute. The memories you make will be worth more than money in the bank.
 
I do not agree with some of the post about this. I could afford to do the special draw but decline to do so just for the fact that it is wrong. Yes I understand what you are saying about wanting to hunt and using the states system to your advantage but at the same time people that want to hunt a quality unit and cannot afford the SPECIAL DRAW have to wait 2,3 years more to hunt the same unit is BS. I have respect for some of the posters to this question but you are still comming across as saying I have more money than you but you are trying to justify why you pay the special fee to yourselves.
Thank You
Rick
 
Snuffy--When I made my post I wasn't referring to paying the special fee. I never have and never will because I agree with you. In fact, I buy leftover licenses for most of my hunts and that way I even save the $14 application fee they charge in the draw, LOL! I'm not rich by any means, but thank God I have enough money in retirement after raising kids and paying off the house to be able to do what I do without pinching pennies.
 
Snuffy, Thank you! i agree with you 100% Some may not see it but they do come off uppity and though their wallet may be thicker they certainly are no better than me, you, or the other guy with 4-5 kids who has lost his job with few prospects.

I sure am not looking for any sympathy here. Not that i'd get any but i'm more looking at what is fair! Seems we are getting more and more away from fairness in the hunting world these days and guys with thick wallets seem to feel that, that is fine with them!

Joey


"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"
 
I always do the elk 'cheapie fee' and also fudge my bet with a RP cow/calf tag overlaping unit.

Most every year I draw both and I am $200 + cheaper than the 1 tag maybe draw 'pricey fee'.

People like what they can afford-----I like 2 tags for less than the cost of 1 tag....ha

Robb
 
Rather than worry about the cost of the special draw be thankful there's a cheap one. there's more demand than supply that's why they have a drawing.
 
Now there's a fine example of what i'm saying. Thanks 440, for helping make my point!

Joey


"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"
 
WELL......WE ALL GOTTA PAY TO PLAY. I LOVE THE IDEA THAT WHEN I GET STUCK W/O A HUNT TO GO ON I CAN GET A ELK, DEER, OR LOPE TAG IN WYOMING NO PROBLEM. YEA.....ITS A FEW BUCKS MORE, BUT LIKE THEY SAY "YOU CANT TAKE IT WITH YOU"..........YOU EVER SEE A HURST PULLING A U-HAUL TRAILER.?????? AT ANY RATE TAGS ARE AVAILABLE....THATS A GOOD THING..........MERRY CHRISTMAS !!!!...................YD.
 
I didn't say I liked the cost, but the fact is if WY eliminated the cheap hunt ad made all tags the special price they's still sell 99% of them.

I can't whine about WY, they treat the NR hunter better than most states. I never put in for the special draw half the time the odds are lower and I'm just not in that big of hurry anyway. it's a non issue.

Just wait until Montana figures out they could triple the price of the sheep/moose/goat tags and still have 50 times more applicants than tags.

Step up or step back it's supply and demand.
 
440 said, "I never put in for the special draw half the time the odds are lower and I'm just not in that big of hurry anyway. it's a non issue."

Maybe for you it is not a issue but to some, they are and it is! Both you and Dall like to talk of your money and all the trips that you can go on. Good for you! I believe Snuffy put it best in his post. Again, why the two prices for NR's was my question, answered nicely by nontypical. It was not why so much but nice try to go ahead and try mix the issue and twist it.

Joey


"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"
 
JOE....... YOU ASKED ABOUT THE NON RES. SPECIAL DRAW FOR DEER & ANTELOPE & WHAT OUR THOUGHTS WHERE CONCERNING THE HIGH PRICES.....RIGHT !!!! REMEMBER .....THIS IS AN OPEN BOARD FOR GENERAL CHAT ON HUNTING. THATS PRETTY MUCH WHAT WE THOUGHT...................HAPPY NEW YEAR !!!!...........YD.
 
Sage---I think YD got you on this one with his last comment! I made this comment on another thread and that is if you want to do almost anything nowadays, including eating, it's going to cost you. It might be smoking, bowling, gas prices, skiing, a vacation on a regular basis, etc. Hunting is no different and, as others have mentioned, as long as demand is there for those tags the prices aren't going down and it will be nice if they don't go up in the nxt year or two again. I think the bigger thing is the disparity between the resident and nonresident license costs, but that's another whole thread and argument!!!
 
All the States rake the nonresidents over the coals. That's just the way it is.

Maybe in the case of WY they are using the wrong terminology. What if the Special Draw was re-labeled the Regular Draw, and the Regular Draw was re-labled the Budget Draw? The Budget Draw is for those people who can't afford the Regular Draw. We'll give them a break.

Joey, does that sound better?:)

Seriously, I get where you're comming from. It seems like a slap in the face to those who truly can't afford the Special Draw. I wish they would set a nonresident price for all nonresidents, period.

The ultimate slap in the face is the auction tag, IMO. Only one person with the most money need apply.

Eel
 
With this logic GM should eliminate Cadillac because some people have to drive a chevy.

There are two application choices, go with the regular one and your problems are solved. don't worry about the evil rich guys who go with the special fees and hire outfitters they're not drawing against you.

Life is only fair in the movies.
 
440---Not to get into a pizzing match, but those special tags ARE tags that could be in the regular draw and the odds for us would be better, so they really are drawing against us in a sense! I also wasn't speaking about just Wyoming when I mentioned the disparity between resident and nonresident tags. However, as was stated many times, as long as nonresidents keep paying the high prices to subsidize the F&G programs the rpice disparity will stay where it is.
 
Sageadvice, here was your original question:

"I want to go hunt as bad as the next guy but the cost for a NR putting in for the special Deer and/or a special lope tag seems out of hand. What do you guys think?"

Like Dall said, you asked what people think. That is what you got - "What do you guys think."

Snuffy says guys are here "trying to justify why you pay the special fee to yourselves."

No one who applies in the special draw needs to "justify" that. You pay it, because that is how the law is written for NRs in WY and because you want to improve your draw odds. No justification needed.

I, and most other guys, have posted that we wish it was all the same, with no separation based on price. If in some imaginary dream world, WY put it up for vote, I would vote to get rid of the dual classification. Odds are, if they do ever change it, they would probably increase all tags to the Special Draw price. So, it might be better now than it could be in the future.

Maybe you expect people to boycott WY because they disagree with the way WY set things up, even though it is completely within the rights of the state of WY to do so. I doubt that will happen.

Before hammering WY, NRs might be well served to think about these facts - WY puts 40% of ALL antelope (R and NR) tags in the NR draw. And 60% of those NR tags go in the lower priced draw. 60% of that 40% is still 24%.

The lower-priced NR pool get allocated 24% of all tags. Hardly cause to whine about Wyoming, when most other states use the "up to 10% rule."

WY allocates 150% more tags to the NR Regular Draw than the NR Special Draw. Like all stated, we wish it was one draw, but that 60/40 allocation between the two pools is more fair than it could be.

Feel free to continue whining and criticizing anyone who doesn't do as you expect or think exactly as you do. Just seems strange to do so, when most the guys you are criticizing feel the same as you about the topic at hand.

"Hunt when you can - You're gonna' run out of health before you run out of money!"
 
Or are the regular draw tags budget priced ? don't you think they would still sell at the special price?

I kind of resent the fact any state can charge me a price that could be considered extorsion to hunt federally owned land but this has been to court and the states won. they could auction the NR quota off if they chose.

So my point is it does no good to cry about something that could be worse if WY wanted to make it worse.
 
Just to add fuel to the fire, all unsold "special price" random tags drop down to the "regular price" random draw, then to the resident draw. It's hard to beat a setup like that.
Their draw process is also as close to a truly random process as any state and much more random then the "keep your low number" type draw states like Oregon and Utah.
 
My apologies guys. In my original post there is reason to believe that i was complaining about the high cost of hunting Wy. Also if i sounded like i've been unhappy with the State, the hunting, or the people of Wyoming during the past 35 years of hunting there, i apologies for that too. Nothing could be further from the truth. I do love Wyoming, especially it's people, and most all hunting there entails.

My intentions with this thread was to bring to chat, the two different prices that NR's must pay to come hunt Wy. Someone said it was a "law". Really? Anyway, i just don't think that it is fair, right, or what have you.

As towards the end of my comments late last night, i think most of us have found a guy or two here in these pages that we just don't much care for. Sometimes guys, adversaries will try to discredit you on whatever topic one chooses. I don't like one bit, and have agreed not to post on each others threads, have made that clear enough, a couple of guys that posted here. In my disgust and anger that they joined in and the late hour, we've gotten into it big time plenty of times before, i probably let my wits get away from me. My bad!

Thanks guys! I think i got my point across to some yet i knew there wasn't going to be any "law" change or revolt. Probably what would please me most is if NR deer was, Example, $400., antelope, $350. split the differences, make two draws into one, taking into account that there are more regular priced licenses.

If it was $900. each to apply for deer, again an example only, that would be fine too. That's what it would cost to go but it wouldn't make it easier to get drawn for the guy with a little more money to spend.

Do i expect the way it is to change? I won't hold my breath! :)

Joey


"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"
 
My view is still that Wyoming treats nonresidents the best of all the western states, regardless of their two tier pricing for elk, deer, and antelope. I was building points in CO for deer and elk years ago and had already picked out the RFW ranch I was going to hunt on when I drew a public tag. I had 4 PPs for each and all of a sudden the booklet came and nonresidents were banished from that draw with no advance notice! There were shock waves from coast to coast, but their F&G people just said too bad and you ain't seen nothing yet! I said FU and haven't looked back! I will never forgive them for that and regardless of whether they have fantastic mulie hunting or not, I vowed I would never go there and I won't. The same thing goes with NM now that we got chit on with that 6% nonresident DIY cap! I'm glad I got to do a ML hunt in the Gila in 2010 to relive old memories of when I used to backpack in there during the late 60s when I was in the Army at Fort Bliss because I'll never go back to NM either. I'm sort of ornery when I get screwed like that and I guess I'll just stay with Wyoming since I don't have that many years of hunting out west left in me. I'm just hoping that it won't get bad enough there to make me quit before my body says I've had enough!
 
TOPGUN........6% NON RES. DIY CAP IN NM, I DID NOT KNOW THAT. THAT NM F&G MUST BE SMOKIN CRACK. ANY OTHER BIG CHANGES ??? I WAS WANTING TO TRY A ELK HUNT IN UNIT 34, GUESS NOT. HAPPY NEW YEAR !!!!.............YD.
 
It wasn't as much the F&G as the outside interests that got the change through the Legislature. Take a look in the New Mexico Forums and there are a number of threads that discussed what happened. Now the cap is 6% for nonresidents that want to DIY and 10% if you go with an outfitter and the way I understand it is now if the 10% outfitter cap isn't met the remainign tags go into the RESIDENT pool. F em!!!
 
Gee I wonder who the guys you don't like are?

My feelings are really hurt so maybe I'll remember who's fort I'm not welcome to play in next time.
 
For one, it's smartazzes that disable their names on this site, LOL! At least I don't disable my name so you know who is posting the opinions here Mr. 6pack!!!
 
Anyone who bothers to look at who a member is would be someone you don't want to have the information. got a crush or just want to send a dead skunk in the mail?

I don't really care enough to remember who's tea partys I'm not welcome at and I don't need the drama queens so just post it at the start so I know. good grief kids.

I'm done with this one I'll just wait now and see if the whining drops the special draw cost.
 
$566 for a tag in a state that substantially trying to rebuild their herds....no thanks
 
Have to disagree with you on that one buddy! If a guy knows what he's doing and where to go with some decent research, he can have great hunting on a general tag every other year on that tag and every two or three in other LE units that still have plenty of animals. I've seen it over that last 10-12 years and BuzzH can also verify that if you ask him based on his hunts every year as a resident.
 
Hey "TG" why is it you have to take over everybodys threads and get into your petty little arguements "ALL" the time? Just wondering.
 
"Take over all the threads with petty little arguments", LOL! Hey, if I read something I agree or disagree with, WTH is your problem if I post? If I feel I have something to offer and can back myself up with what I feel is correct information, I've got the time outside the hunting seasons and am going to make a post or three on it. I think that's what these threads are for and if you care to put in your reason for or against something that has been said, please do so too! If you don't care to post, then don't, because it's as simple as that. Sorry you don't happen to like it, but a lot of threads on this and other sites have topics to be discussed and I'll do my part when I feel like it. You know you're not being forced to read anything that's on this site unless you want to don't you?
 
Boy this thread sure did take on a life of it's own. Never expected this when I asked a simple question on the regs. Maybe I should sytart a threat for everyone to post there favorite huntnig spot with coords. Wonder how long that thread will go?? Happy New year everyone.
 
Probably at least as long as the one the guy started saying that if he got enough posts he night post a picture of the bull he shot this year, LOL!
 
Tracker said, "Maybe I should "sytart" a "threat" for everyone to post "there" favorite "huntnig" spot with "coords"

Maybe you should have paid more attention in school! Or, at least get a spell checker.

Also, i started this thread not you. Your question on the regs was asked several days after this one had already been going. No big deal but if you're going to hack on the way that your thread went, make sure that it was your thread!

Happy New Years to you too! :)

Joey


"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"
 
Sage---I really wondered where he was coming from because that was the only post he made on this whole friggin thread YOU started, LOL! This thread was basically going along like a chatroom with a lot of joking and bantering around along with a few serious posts along the way. Then not only did he make that post, but before that I get "attacked" (for lack of a better word) for just stating my opinions on stuff and having fun here. I thought both were reasons for having forums, LOL! Have a good one Bro!
 

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