Something is Wrong, Any guesses?

F

Forthewall

Long Time Member
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It's like there's a strong wind blowing but the tree are not moving. I can't put my finger on it, but the GOP has got something up it's sleeve.

When Hannity, Coulter, and Beck, are talking about supporting Clinton over McCain...something stinks to high heaven.

At first I was thinking, given the state of the union they are willing to hand over this election. Figuring that whoever the Dem candidate is, they won't be able to tackle so many issues within 2 years. In hopes that after 2 years of finger pointing they will be able to re-group.

Now I'm not so sure about that initial thought. All I know is I have a gut feeling something is brewing in the GOP. Perhaps the GOP questions McCain's campaign agenda as bogus and that he will do an about-face if elected.

The GOP pundits never point to Huck or the soon to be leaving Mitt as the answer either.

Anybody else have that strange gut-feeling with all of this?
 
so far doesn't sound like a concession spech to me, he may just be a smart fellow in the long run
 
The whole thing is interesting, the far right would rather sink the ship than to stay on it with McCain but yet he's the only one they have with a Chinaman's chance in the general election.

McCain is for reversing Roe V Wade, the Iraq war and 99% of what Bush was for so why the long faces? he's the least conservative yes but he is a conservative, makes me think the far right would rather commit suicide than compromise. I say let them die, rational moderates will replace them.

As far as a plan about the only one smart enough to pull anything off in their cult would be Rove, keep an eye on him and you have the brains covered.
 
Perhaps the GOP is setting the stage for Bloomberg? That would be odd since Bloomberg denounced his republican affiliation a year ago. Bloomberg would be widely accepted by corporate america fearful of losing tax loopholes which allow them to defer taxes. Bloomberg would also be able to take on Hillary or Obama head on.

In any case Mitt and Huck have both shown they are pandering hypocrits. They've spent the last year speaking of the virtues of governorship, yet neither endorsed each other. I believe their non-endorsement lies deeply in the religious clash between their constituents.

The next card to be played will be Huckabee's. Will it be onward christian soldier for Huck, or will he role over for a shot at the VP spot?
 
I don't think it's suicide, but it damn sure is a resigned attitude for this election.

Mitt will withold his support of McCain, in a very polite way and then when he comes back in 2012, he can say he played nice and will look real shiney.

The Southern GOP will love him in 2012, and the rest of the GOP will see him as the ONLY viable candidate for that election.
 
when there's nothing left, and there's no way to beat the democrats on the issues, you find something to talk about, so it's the old adage,

"if you cant beat them, join them." Basically the NEOCONS have surrendered. . .
 
"and there's no way to beat the democrats on the issues"

Issues, issues since when did issues have anything to with Dem vs. Repub in a primary T?

The Dem vs. Rep part comes after the primary bro.

Since you mentioned issues. Just which issues do the Dems own, and why do you feel they are right?



"Thanks climate PhD 202" - TFinalshot Feb-05-08, 02:16 PM (MST)
 
T and FTW,

I kind of figured you would both be celebrating the Republicans nominating a McCain over a Huckabee or Romney along with the associated weeping and gnashing of teeth from the far right.

Curious why either of you care what the Republicans do as both you have stated that you are no longer Republicans. Unless you fear a McCain Presidency.

I think it is healthy for the party to figure out where it is headed and whether or not a majority of the electorate agrees. I thought that is how this democracy thing worked? I would think that everyone would want a strong opposition party.

I think what is happening is a result of the wheels that were set in motion by the Republican congresses back in the late 90's all the way through the last election: They were in office but not in power, they got comfortable and being in office was enough for them. They gave up there oversight responsibility and abandoned their principles. The party lost it's way and now it is searching for it's way.

Nemont
 
I'm not celebrating as much as I'm helping to point out that the republican party is in shambles and I am interested in the views and opinions of my friends on MM.

As for issues, it is clear that mcain has and is running for president it is about issues, americans are tired of the watching their country get torn apart by the neo conservatives and the religious right telling them what to do and how to live their lives. . .
 
I'm celibrating, after the first 4 or 5 years of this crappy adminstration and it's goobers calling me a traitor, the you're with us or you're against us crap and the fact supporting a woman's rights makes you a murderer I'm quite content to watch the house of cards crumble. this is what makes America great, when we get pulled off track the people have the ability to pull us back on. this is the greatest nation on earth, again.
 
> I'm celibrating, after the first
>4 or 5 years of
>this crappy adminstration and it's
>goobers calling me a traitor,
>the you're with us or
>you're against us crap and
>the fact supporting a woman's
>rights makes you a murderer
>I'm quite content to watch
>the house of cards crumble.
>this is what makes America
>great, when we get pulled
>off track the people have
>the ability to pull us
>back on. this is the
>greatest nation on earth, again.
>
>
>

Are you frieking kidding me? Wich candidate do you think is going to "pull our nation back on track"? I really don't see old honest Abe backing any of todays candidates. What are you thinking bro?
 
It's so easy to dislike huntindude when he throws out comments like "Let them die"(conservatives) and "Their cult" in describing republicans! How are we supposed to want to work and compromise with leftist propaganda and hate-filled tirades like that? How are we supposed to find common ground when you take joy in berating and slandering us? Oh wait! You are just following you're party guidebook published by Miss Pelosi and the rest of the moderates. I'll admit to calling you some names too, but you must get off by slamming conservatives. Hope you are proud of yourself and your party. I think our great country is way off track and I can't see anyone fixing it in this election. Especially when the left is full of card carrying members that make DUDE seem like a moderate. I plan to write in Mickey Mouse because thats whats coming, a storybook fantasyland and I am trying to live in the real world. Ain't room at the table for normal people any more. God help us all. Cept DUDE, cause he is way to smart to rely on faith! So good luck Dude! And thanks for being so openminded and TOLERANT!
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-07-08 AT 11:26PM (MST)[p]202/bigbuttchaser there is no common ground or compromise with people like you, go back and read the hate filled garbage you've spit at anyone who failed to fall in line for the last 3 years. I learned along time ago some people only want to get along when they're in no position to resist, here you are with big puppy dog eyes now. most of us want to find common ground and we will, but not by your rules anymore so get over it.

About my comment let them die , I mean let the moral majority far right movement die. this was some bad writing and to anybody who sees it as meaning let my fellow American die I would never say anything like that, I appologize.

Give me a break Bush doesn't even leave office for another year and you're crying like a baby, just the thought of compomise scares the crap out of you.

Gee wiz let me see if I can work up a tear....nope.
 
For the life of me, I can not understand how anyone can state that the Gop party is in shambles, and they have the likes of left wing radical liberals like Hillary taking the lead in the party they support and toot as the savior of the people.
It seems the Gop is trying to find it's middle ground with a moderate like McCain, while the Dems can not get away from their radical left wingers to reach the middle.
P.T. Barnum was right about a fool being born every minute. He should have added that those fools have a brass ring in their nose to be jerk around like sheep being lead to the slaughter. I guess they like the ideal of having the goverment taking control of their everyday routine and telling them to put their pants on by inserting the left foot first.

RELH
 
>>...americans are tired of the watching their country get torn apart by the neo conservatives and the religious right telling them what to do and how to live their lives. . .<<

And...as a REGISTERED REPUBLICAN for more than 45 years, I will say "amen" to that! -TONY
 
RELH, when Tom Delay and Ann Coulter say they may vote for Hillary over McCain that's a place where you have to say, things aren't good for the republicans.

OutdoorWriter's quote Tony made says it all, the bulk of republicans feel that way and they're nominating a candidate the hardliners hate. this is the way it's supposed to work, out with the old unpopular and in with the new . by 2012 I'll bet we're a more united nation again and the republicans will have a candidate most everyone on this site can get behind.
 
Given that T and I were called to the mat I will respond.

"Curious why either of you care what the Republicans do as both you have stated that you are no longer Republicans. Unless you fear a McCain Presidency."

I'm not sure if this is a question or a statement, given the punctuation I will take it as a statement.

"I think what is happening is a result of the wheels that were set in motion by the Republican congresses back in the late 90's all the way through the last election: They were in office but not in power, they got comfortable and being in office was enough for them."

I understand that line of reasoning and believe the same can be said of the dems currently and in the 109th congress. However I also believe that this administration has shown anyone standing on core republican principle and not falling in line with this administration, will become a target and alienated by the party as we have seen with Chuck Hagel.

" They gave up there oversight responsibility and abandoned their principles."

I don't wish to cherry-pick but this statement seems a little loaded. As if to say democrats have no oversight responsibilties and the ills of this administration can be directly traced to democratic priniciples.

As for "abandoned their principles", this statement I find needs a little definition and clarity. Would these be principles like Terry Schaivo, record deficit spending, no accountability, defying proper checks and balances, and fiscal policies which have led to an economic downturn?

Nemont, if you could expand a little on republican principles I would really appreciate that? I am an old school republican that left the party in 89, because I no longer understood what the republcan principles had become.
 
I've heard it mentioned that Republicans, at this point in time, are conceding to the leftists because they may see the immigration, abortion, Iraq, ad nauseum as a no-win situation.

What you MAY be seeing is a tactical maneuver by republicans to let the Dems grapple with those tar-babies and smother themselves. Better to have the dems go down in flames than the Republicans, led by McCain (another lib).

They'll [reps] will then have time to regroup, plan and perhaps rescue the principles they have lost (maybe).

Makes sense actually. The dems want bigger government and more socialist policies. These take taxes to implement. So they will start looting the productive to care for the worthless as they always do. Couple this with amnesty for illegals, the dems will have their hands full. Could be fun to watch.

Waving the white flag and turning the security of Iraq over to the Iranians, Russians and ChiComs will probably prove more expensive than they thought, too. Troop movements on such a massive scale does get spendy. Raise the taxes and cut the military budget/force there. Better to let the dems take the fall for that than the reps (again represented by the RINO, McCain).

As tactics go, its kind of scary. Americans are becoming socially engineered to embrace big government and to hate the productive (look at some of the posters here for example). IMHO, we will accept the coming socialism with greedy, open arms. Its said that all great nations succumb to this ideology after awhile anyway. Americas turn in the barrel, me thinks.
 
JimNv, you just can't give me have anything can you? That's o.k I will take what I can get and be happy. :)

Good thread! I think your views have great merit.

Without a polarizing figure in the GOP I think it might take longer that 2-4 years for the GOP to unify.

Look how long it has taken the Dems to gather a consensus for a course bearing.

The Dems past performance clearly illustrates that they can lose what would be described as a "easy win" election. I have always hoped that our leaders whether it be George or not do what is best for our country. In the end we will have to pay and live by their leadership decisions.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-08-08 AT 01:23PM (MST)[p]I believe in the old Republican principles of smaller government, keeping government out of people's business, strong national defense etc.

I wasn't calling anyone "out" I was asking a question: Why do you care what the Republicans do? You aren't voting for any of them any way. If they go down in defeat, as you predict, wouldn't that make you happy?



Nemont


P.S. what are the Democrat's principles that are superior to even the neocons principles?
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-08-08 AT 02:10PM (MST)[p]When your thread was directed to T and FTW I assumed you were requesting our direct responses.

As for caring what the GOP does, I can only refer you to the last paragraph directly above your thread. There is no sure thing when it comes to politics especially with the democratic party.

I implore you to find where I have ever predicted a republican defeat.

As for comparing Democratic principles, again, that is territory I have never ventured into either.

I voted on Tuesday, but I only voted on the state's propositions and local county measures. I wrote in my cat Jake for the presidential primaries. I'm not quite sure where he leans politically, but he only takes a dump in my neighbor's yards. He's probably a moderate since he gets along with my dog and my other stupid cat.

I have stated multiple times how I feel about bush/clinton/bush/
/clinton? I do feel that Obama has been a great assest to the political system in bringing political involvement to the youth of our country.

I'm holding out until October.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-08-08 AT 02:30PM (MST)[p]FTW, whomever wins will have some terrific hairballs on their plates to deal with. Immigration, amnesty, judgeships and all the rest.

A persons ego must be coupled with a masochism that borders on clinical to want to be president in these times ;-)

The next few years are going to be interesting indeed, and honestly, it's worrisome to me. Especially the Immigration and health care stuff. I see nothing good in the democrats talking points about them, and McCains' blase' attitude toward border security is grim. Our econo/social footings are stressed enough without the instant addition 15+million "NEW" Citizens.

As far as Iraq goes, complete and utter stupidity to go in there, but now that we are there, we'd better remain part and parcel of the stability of that region or we will clearly lose that place setting to a country who may not have our best interests at heart. I mean we are there, lets hold our place on one of the most strategic energy reserves on the planet.

Off the soap-box now.
 
LAST EDITED ON Feb-09-08 AT 10:04AM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Feb-09-08 AT 09:58?AM (MST)

Here are a few issues that concern me: I agree we as a country have to fix what's wrong at home before we start adopting on such a large scale(immigration). We have a housing market that's in chaos due to liberal lending practices and a push from the government to make more affordable housing loans and many using their homes to consolidate their debt. When you factor in that the average american household today has less than $2500.00 in savings it's not to hard to see many are households are on the brink of financial collapse if they hit a speedbump. It's no wonder credit card debt is at an all time high given the pressures exerted on the the average household today. Inflation has stretched many a paycheck in this country way too thin. This is a finely veiled hose of cards. The ripple effect here alone could devestate many financially that didn't even lose their home.

When you have people using credit cards to buy groceries at the store that's not a good sign and it's happening more and more every day. What makes this more intense is that to most Americans their single biggest asset is their home. If they lose their home in millions of cases they will lose their retirement nest egg and this loss can lead to the fragmenting of many families in the process and cause more dependency on society in the process at all ages. It's no easy task for many young singles to exist in our inflated world today. The fact many kids are still living with their parents well into their twenties supports this conclusion. It's not easy starting out so they have to buddy up in order to pool their assets to be able to live. What happens to the fragmented family (divorced or displaced) now faced with double expenses for housing? Yep you guessed it welfare! This country has far too many single mothers living at or below the poverty line and it's only going to get worse. Julio making minimum wage isn't going to buy this house so now we start to see the beginnings of urban blight.

Contrary to popular belief at some future point in time all of our businesses going off shore with many jobs will cost us more than we ever imagined. There is this grand illusion that we will create other jobs and retrain our peoples skill sets. Well to some extent this is true but in many cases as the populace ages it is completely false. Most companies shy away from hiring older individuals and if you don't believe me look at the facts concerning how long it takes a 50 year old to get a job as opposed to a 20 year old. Julio isn't the answer because he can't read english yet. Now as this trend develops we have once again created more dependancy on helping to care for our older members of society. Those that were dependent on social security as a source of income for their future. Take the time to look around and see just how many older people are working just to make ends meet in todays world. That's a huge reason why we need to fix the social security system now not in 20 - 30 years. If we don't we've just created more dependents on social programs to survive. The 401 K isn't the complete answer either because most of the employers in this country don't offer them. Oh and how do you fund an IRA or a Roth when you're just barely making enough to get by or minimum wage?

What's wrong, America has been so placated and concerned about what's happening outside her borders ($$$ , war, terrorism) that she's completely missed what's been going on at home. I would think it far more prudent to get our affairs in order here before we even start to think about such a large scale adoption.

We'll just have to get rid of Rush and Ann since they can't get to the other side quickly enough to voice their support and want to seem to add to the chaos. Most would hardly miss them. Hillary isn't the solution she's part of the problem because she has opened her arms with her liberal friends in hopes of getting all those new little dependents parents votes! Not to mention that then we'll have 17 million continue sending more money to Mexico on a weekly basis causing more of a drain to our economy and an influx of more illegals! It's time to look within and get both parties fixing our issues not creating more! Hillery doesn't need a second presidential pension in the household since they made millions off their first visit! Then we have the concerns others have already pointed out. Like Jim said why would anyone want the job!
 
I agree, the only thing I might add is McCain isn't going to do any more than Hillary would about the illegals, maybe less.
 
I saw parts of a speech that McCain gave the other day. He had a Jimmy Swaggert moment, without the tears. He confessed that he was wrong on illegal immigrantion and promised, if elected of course, to close the borders as his first priority.

Oh the promises they make.......

Eel
 

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