Snake River Battle

[DeerMadness]

A big push to remove the Dams on the Snake River. If the proposal wins then Lower Granite, Little Goose, Lower Monumental and and Ice Harbor Dams would be removed. I remember reading about how the historic runs of Salmon were unbelievable in amounts.
In the 1990s I caught so many Steelhead on the river but Salmon had already declined dramatically and so it was only catch and release. I know there would have to be some other plans for power made and shipments by barge from Farms would be over. I don't know what is the best solution but they will be gone in 12 to 20 years.

 

[elkassassin]

Ya!

It Probably Effected the Humpback Chub!

Or the PinHead Maybe?

 

[DeerMadness]

Steelhead runs are tiny now too Elk. Cash registers ring from fishermen too. Guides, food, boat sales, fishing equipment etc. If anyone has ever caught a King or Silver Salmon or a 18 lb Wild Steelhead in a boat or off the bank they will never forget the joy.

 

[roadrunner]

Leave the dams in place. People will be sorry if they are removed.

 

[elkassassin]

So DM?

You're gonna Remove the Cleanest Power ever Generated?

No Doubt!

The Dams Have Affected the Fisheries!

But Shouldn't Have that Been Thought out Prior to Building the Dams?

Is Water Storage Not Important anymore?

Steelhead runs are tiny now too Elk. Cash registers ring from fishermen too. Guides, food, boat sales, fishing equipment etc. If anyone has ever caught a King or Silver Salmon or a 18 lb Wild Steelhead in a boat or off the bank they will never forget the joy.

 

[DeerMadness]

Read again what I said- I said the fish would be gone and I don't know what the solution would be as far as impact. I had a better time fishing for Steelhead than I have hunting big game so that makes me more of a fisherman than a hunter but I am both. I didn't say I want dam removal . I will mourn the loss of fishing there and the great Columbia River and have always planned on that for my retirement that is only a a couple more years away.

 

[eelgrass]

Is the Idaho? All the conservatives left California for Idaho. Hahaha!

Hatcheries and working fish ladders are the answer and leave the dams alone. Thin out the sea lions on the Columbia.

 

[Homer]

screw the farmers....screw the barges....screw commerce....screw everything but the fish......this is 2021....screw people....fish RULE

 

[elkassassin]

And Especially:

TRASH FISH MATTER!

 

[roadrunner]

And Especially:

TRASH FISH MATTER!

Only the Chub does.

 

[DeerMadness]

Heck yes, people suck ! Never met a dooshbag fish.

 

[DeerMadness]

Only the Chub does.

Once you eat a Chub Po'boy you will be hooked !

 

[DeerMadness]

To Elk and Homer and all of us- I'm not even close to a tree hugger or green deal getter. I'm all for fossil fuel until we find something better.
I also hear the "oh I guess people don't matter" opinion on everything environmental and people don't want to change to make some things better. So if everything we love to enjoy in nature were depleted would you still sound that cry?
Lose the salmon? Whales ? Polar Bears ? Muleys? Greta Thunberg and Al Gore aren't my idols but how far do we take the other road?
Are we entitled to ruin everything or can we save some things ? Don't come back with trash statements but come back with your opinion.

 

[feddoc]

I have myself a chub every so often...

 

[DeerHunter53]

I have myself a chub every so often...

But not as often as it used to be!

 

[hossblur]

In my neck of the woods there is an ongoing fight to damn the bear river, which would decimate waterfowl production and retention. And for what? So every Tard can have 1/4 acre of dark green lawn in a desert. Or so we can get 4 cuts to send to China and Saudi?

That's where the rubber meets the road for "us". We claim to love wild places and wild things, but then we destroy wild places because we cling to the past? Is it worth Xeroscapping your yard, and solar paneling your roof if you can fish steelhead and salmon? Or hunt ducks 4 months a year? I must, I tore out a my back lawn and covered it with rocks. And I started bidding out solar panels to go with the new shingles that are coming.

Damn, I feel more like Al Gore already

 

[DeerMadness]

Sometimes the closer to oilfields people live the less they care about environment. I can't understand why Utah has gone on so long draining down water supplies instead of instituting measures and solutions. The same can be said all over in other states too.

 

[backcountryID]

There's a little more to it than "dam removal is a liberal idea and I'm conservative so I oppose it."

Is Simpson's proposal perfect? No. Does Simpson's proposal take care of most stakeholders and provide a better benefit to taxpayers like me? Probably.

I was always on the fence about removing the 4 lower Snake dams until I took the time to research it. To me, putting aside any environmental discussion, the negative economic impact of the four lower Snake dams, alone, puts me in favor of Simpson's proposal.

By the way, the actual dams won't be removed under the proposal, the river is just allowed to bypass them.

Yeah, there are a lot of moving parts. But do yourself a favor and research all the issues. If you live in the Columbia watershed, the four lower Snake dams WILL impact you economically in the next two decades.

 

[DeerMadness]

There's a little more to it than "dam removal is a liberal idea and I'm conservative so I oppose it." Is Simpson's proposal perfect? No. Does Simpson's proposal take care of most stakeholders and provide a better benefit to taxpayers like me? Probably. I was always on the fence about removing the 4 lower Snake dams until I took the time to research it. To me, putting aside any environmental discussion, the negative economic impact of the four lower Snake dams, alone, puts me in favor of Simpson's proposal. By the way, the actual dams won't be removed under the proposal, the river is just allowed to bypass them. Yeah, there are a lot of moving parts. But do yourself a favor and research all the issues. If you live in the Columbia watershed, the four lower Snake dams WILL impact you economically in the next two decades.

There's a little more to it than "dam removal is a liberal idea and I'm conservative so I oppose it." Is Simpson's proposal perfect? No. Does Simpson's proposal take care of most stakeholders and provide a better benefit to taxpayers like me? Probably. I was always on the fence about removing the 4 lower Snake dams until I took the time to research it. To me, putting aside any environmental discussion, the negative economic impact of the four lower Snake dams, alone, puts me in favor of Simpson's proposal. By the way, the actual dams won't be removed under the proposal, the river is just allowed to bypass them. Yeah, there are a lot of moving parts. But do yourself a favor and research all the issues. If you live in the Columbia watershed, the four lower Snake dams WILL impact you economically in the next two decades.

 

[DeerMadness]

I do know the economic impacts would be great. My purpose of posting wasn't to say I'm all in favor of the proposal. What is tough and what is sad- the combination of ocean pollution, Dams, seals running unchecked eating much of the fish and natives with gillnetting running the course of the Columbia from the Dalles dam toward the mouth of the Columbia.
I hear plenty of talk about Big Game tag overselling at the Expo and many other things such as doe tags decimating numbers but other species are important also. Just food for thought and discussion. Gun control, Public lands being sold off, river access being lost to sportsman.
Being a sportsman isn't just looking at one piece of the problems. We are all losing out.

 

[backcountryID]

DM - I wasn't bashing, as I am supportive of Rep. Simpson's proposal to "remove" the four lower Snake dams. Even then the proposal doesn't actually remove the dams, it just lets the river bypass the current dams.

These dams don't store water, no longer produce the cheapest electricity, and with the improvements outlined in the proposal, agricultural impacts are minimal/neutral.

The taxpayers pay for the upkeep of these dams, which haven't been properly maintained in their lifetimes, and the cost for fish mitigation is also passed to the tax payers.

Like I said above, Simpson's proposal isn't perfect, but these dams no longer make sense/cents, and we need to realistically and objectively evaluate them rather than just sticking to our traditional camp of "dam removal is only for environmentalists."

 

[DeerMadness]

screw the farmers....screw the barges....screw commerce....screw everything but the fish......this is 2021....screw people....fish RULE

I'm sure this is good too for you cuz people needed jobs and this saved their employees money. Screw the ocean, right ? Waste dumping rules!

 

[eelgrass]

I don't think there are very many people here who have caught more steelhead or salmon in the rives than I have. I fished it when we could keep 3 steelhead a day. And we did, year after year from December to June.

Now the only steelhead you can keep is a hatchery fish in the Mad River. That's because it's the only hatchery left up here. More hatcheries would sure be cool. NOPE! Okay, let's remove some of the fish's natural predators like river otters and sea lions. NOPE! Okay, let's get rid of the non native Squaw fish that eat steelhead and salmon fry. NOPE! Let's modernize the dams with new state of the art fish ladders and do restoration work. NOPE! Okay, if we take the dams out can we build a nuclear power plant to replace them? NOPE! How about a natural gas plant or coal? NOPE! What would happen to the farmers who depend on water? THEY MAKE TOO MUCH MONEY AS IT IS. Well, the very least you could do is stop the illegal water diversion for growing marijuana. NOPE!

I'm sorry, the 1800's are gone and they're not coming back.

 

[Homer]

Well eel....they aren't removing the dams....they're just bypassing them......lol

 

[eelgrass]

I guarantee you if they gave permission to remove a dam on the Snake Rive tomorrow it would take 20 years before one shovel full of dirt was removed and then another 50 years before the native runs came back if they ever did.

 

[elkassassin]

The Good Ole SQUAWFISH!


Anybody know how much Money Utah has Spent on Them?

 

[Bluehair]

Sometimes the closer to oilfields people live the less they care about environment. I can't understand why Utah has gone on so long draining down water supplies instead of instituting measures and solutions. The same can be said all over in other states too.

Not necessarily true. I’m much more suspicious of any extractive activity having seen firsthand the expansion of the “oil patch”.

The roads and “locations” will never go away. And neither will the traffic. In fact there‘s more now because all the farmers can afford 2 powerstrokes with of all that surface damage money and those royalties.

And I would go further and say that it turned some folks who might have been ambivalent. These old ladies out here watch things like a hawk now.

 

[eelgrass]

Elkassassin will appreciate this story.

Back when I started steelhead fishing in the early 60's we had lots of steelhead. The limit was 3 a day and it didn't seem unreasonable. There weren't that many die hard fishermen back then and access to the rivers was pretty limited because of private property. And when the water was high nobody could fish. Realistically we could only fish about 1/3 of the time in the winter. Life was good for about 15 years.

Then one day some guy showed up with a goofy looking boat from Oregon. He called it a Drift Boat. That sucker was amazing. He could drift down all the rough whitewater and cover the whole river. He could sweep back and forth and hit all the holding water with little effort. And the best part was he could put in way upriver and fish right through all that private property. No place was off limits. The fish never got a break. (kind of like deer hunting today)

Within a few years there were hundreds of drift boats on our rivers and lots of happy fishermen with limits of steelhead. Yep, the limit was still 3/day. Fish and Wildlife turned a blind eye. I know of one guide boat that killed over 200 one season alone.

Then one day the fishing slacked off. Imagine that. It eventually became pretty hard to catch a limit. Fishermen started crying and pointing fingers. It's those damned loggers dumping all that silt in the rivers. It's global warming. It's those dams. Fish and Wildlife finally woke up and the limit went from 3 fish/day to catch and release in one year and then to the Threatened list. Then when marijuana blew up in the mountains the head water creeks dried up. And here we are. Lots of drift boats for sale.

The prime steelhead river in California quit flowing.

 

[elkassassin]

Same BS Goes on in Alaska!

Sad The Eel River has quit Flowing!

 

[DeerMadness]

Elkassassin will appreciate this story.

Back when I started steelhead fishing in the early 60's we had lots of steelhead. The limit was 3 a day and it didn't seem unreasonable. There weren't that many die hard fishermen back then and access to the rivers was pretty limited because of private property. And when the water was high nobody could fish. Realistically we could only fish about 1/3 of the time in the winter. Life was good for about 15 years.

Then one day some guy showed up with a goofy looking boat from Oregon. He called it a Drift Boat. That sucker was amazing. He could drift down all the rough whitewater and cover the whole river. He could sweep back and forth and hit all the holding water with little effort. And the best part was he could put in way upriver and fish right through all that private property. No place was off limits. The fish never got a break. (kind of like deer hunting today)

Within a few years there were hundreds of drift boats on our rivers and lots of happy fishermen with limits of steelhead. Yep, the limit was still 3/day. Fish and Wildlife turned a blind eye. I know of one guide boat that killed over 200 one season alone.

Then one day the fishing slacked off. Imagine that. It eventually became pretty hard to catch a limit. Fishermen started crying and pointing fingers. It's those damned loggers dumping all that silt in the rivers. It's global warming. It's those dams. Fish and Wildlife finally woke up and the limit went from 3 fish/day to catch and release in one year and then to the Threatened list. Then when marijuana blew up in the mountains the head water creeks dried up. And here we are. Lots of drift boats for sale.

The prime steelhead river in California quit flowing.

Eel, I know how that feels. Steelhead fishing is amazing. I caught tons of hatchery fish and lots of wild fish. I always followed the rules and released the wild fish and obeyed the limits.
I haven't fished Idaho as it is a 3 hour drive. In Washington it was 20 minutes from home.
It is awful what the illegal growers have done. Too bad they could catch and run them all out.

 

[eelgrass]

DM, they're trying to run them out but they're out numbered. I went up and cut a load of firewood again this morning. Coming back on Hwy 36 I saw three 18 wheelers loaded down with potting soil headed up into the mountains. People aren't growing tomatoes up there. They're hiding their weed grows behind locked gates. All a cop would have to do is follow one to see where it goes and check them for their permits. Too busy I guess.

I was fishing the Mattole River one day and landed 3 steelhead in 45 minutes and the smallest was 16 pounds. One of my better memories.

 

[DeerMadness]

DM, they're trying to run them out but they're out numbered. I went up and cut a load of firewood again this morning. Coming back on Hwy 36 I saw three 18 wheelers loaded down with potting soil headed up into the mountains. People aren't growing tomatoes up there. They're hiding their weed grows behind locked gates. All a cop would have to do is follow one to see where it goes and check them for their permits. Too busy I guess.

I was fishing the Mattole River one day and landed 3 steelhead in 45 minutes and the smallest was 16 pounds. One of my better memories.

I have two best memories. # 1 one catching a 16 and 18 lb fish with my Dad in a boat I had. The other is catching 5 fish in 4 hours of which one was 16 lb. My biggest catch was a 44" 20.5 lb fish at Ice Harbor Dam . The guys that hadn't caught anything all were pissed and jealous because I showed up an hour before dark and had that fish on in 30 seconds. They didn't want to net it for me so I had to plead for help.

 

[eelgrass]

I have two best memories. # 1 one catching a 16 and 18 lb fish with my Dad in a boat I had. The other is catching 5 fish in 4 hours of which one was 16 lb. My biggest catch was a 44" 20.5 lb fish at Ice Harbor Dam . The guys that hadn't caught anything all were pissed and jealous because I showed up an hour before dark and had that fish on in 30 seconds. They didn't want to net it for me so I had to plead for help.

You got me. My biggest was 19 pounds even, on the Eel River. It's my observation that 20% of the steelhead fishermen catch 80% of the steelhead. It took me the better part of ten years before I could catch steelhead consistently.

 

[DeerMadness]

You got me. My biggest was 19 pounds even, on the Eel River. It's my observation that 20% of the steelhead fishermen catch 80% of the steelhead. It took me the better part of ten years before I could catch steelhead consistently.

It took me about 3 years on the Columbia and Snake to get consistent . After that I did well on the Grande Ronde , Lewis and the Little White Salmon. I always planned to fish the Bogachiel but never did. I wish I could have fished with you or someone on the Eel. It is very pretty and I have driven by it a few times.

 

[DeerHunter53]

Actually the Eel Steelhead are making some what of a comeback. I heard you can keep one fish now and for years you could keep nothing on the Eel.
I've drift fished it several times but my best fish on the Eel river came our of the that big hole where they hold the concerts at by Garberville, It was a 15 pounder. Ran my ass up and down the river as I was fishing from the bank. LOL

 

[eelgrass]

Mike, I think in theory you can keep a hatchery fish on the Eel, but the only hatchery is run by a timber company on Yager Creek and they quit marking their fish some years ago, but it's possible. I did hear of one a few years ago.

I don't know how they can tell that our steelhead are making a come back. There is no weir on the river to count them so it's probably just a guess, but I hope you're right.

The hatchery on Mad River could replenish the steelhead on a lot of streams here but the purists won't allow it. They don't want the hatchery fish to taint the gene pool.

 

[eelgrass]

Even though it's legal to catch and release steelhead on the Eel I don't fish it because a certain percentage of released fish die. Especially when they land drag them and take them out of the water for a photo. It should be illegal to take the fish out of the water, period. I would just as soon see it closed until they recover.