Significant restrictions are being proposed in 2024 Novembers RAC's

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Hunter61

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Significant restrictions are being proposed to increase hunter opportunity with out impacting quality. A five year study will be implemented to some of the most popular hunting units in the State - Cache, West Beaver, Boulder/Kaiparowits.
  • Restricted muzzleloader — current definition with the following additional restrictions: (a) the ignition system is limited to traditional flintlock, wheellock, matchlock, musket cap, or percussion cap which must be entirely visible when the hammer is drawn back. All other ignition systems, including 209 primers, are prohibited; and (b) contains only open sights or peep sights
  • Restricted rifle — current definition with the following additional restrictions: (a) contains only open sights or peep sights; and (b) cannot be semi-automatic.
  • The Thousand Lakes (must be a single-stringed long bow or recurve bow with no cables, pulleys or cams
  • Pine Valley will be a 4 point or better hunting unit allowing youth to harvest any antlered deer.
To watch the proposals -- https://wildlife.utah.gov/.../2012-november-2024-rac...

Information about the study can be found on the second agenda item​

2. Utah deer hunt strategies research proposal​

Details of the restrictions can be found here https://wildlife.utah.gov/.../memorandum-2024-10-17-deer...

Your voice whether you agree or disagree to this proposal is needed. Make comments online or better yet plan to attend the RAC meeting.

Happy hunting and be safe.
 
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Mallardsx2 said:
I’m confused, I thought this got shot down a few months back?

Is this a new flavor of proposals? Because it appears to be very similar.
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It was. And it is.

Last time a committee proposed it and it was very much opposed by the public. This time the division is proposing it, and since they do what they want regardless of what the public says, I’m certain this will go through as presented. Maybe a tweak or two. But you’re looking at what will take place. You’re also looking at what the entire state hunt structure will look like the next time the deer plan is up for review
 
Bux n Dux said:
It was. And it is.

Last time a committee proposed it and it was very much opposed by the public. This time the division is proposing it, and since they do what they want regardless of what the public says, I’m certain this will go through as presented. Maybe a tweak or two. But you’re looking at what will take place. You’re also looking at what the entire state hunt structure will look like the next time the deer plan is up for review
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FUBAR
 
Here we go again…Our deer herds must be in really bad shape! Kinda late on the Pine Valley unit. I’d rotate that 4 point restriction to every other year. First year 4 points next year any legal buck like 2 pnts. Do that for 4 years and I think will get us a better age structure. I’m not buying reducing the buck to doe ratio. They want to grow more deer but they’ll be growing more does and less bucks. Sure they’ll offer more tags until hunters complain there’s to many hunters no deer and small bucks.
 
I Knew There Was A reason I Kept My HAWKENS!

I Also Have a Winchester 94 LEEVER Action 30-30!

Alot Of NON-MUZZ Hunters Thought It Was Perty Cool When They Started YANKING From The SMOKEPOLERS!

Wait Till 10's Of Thousands Of DRAT'S Have To Lay Their 5,000.00-30,000.00 GADGETRYized Rifles Down For An Open Sighted Weapon Of Yesteryear!

I Can Hear The WHINING Already!
 
Its a hell of a thing reading comments in here.

Same dudes that have bitched for as long as ive been a member are bitching again.

Im excited. All these guys up in arms im sure will just quit. Tags will be much easier.

Im especially glad to read all the dudes who talk non stop about the "good old days" a time when everyone hunted with open sight lever actions and army surplus, crying like babies because their 18x scope cant be used.

Pretty damn sad that guys would rather drastically cut tags, and sit home multiple years because they just cant live without a scope or primer.

And of course the whining will be "i have to buy a new gun....." The same complaint not heard when they ran out buting each time newer tech came out.

Let the mashing of teeth begin i guess
 
The way I read it, this is a five year (four season) research project on a few units. I’m all for it. Let’s see what happens. Rolling back tech is a great idea. Easy for me to say though…I don’t hunt those units.
 
Keystone said:
Pretty damn sad that guys would rather drastically cut tags, and sit home multiple years because they just cant live without a scope or primer.
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Don’t fall for the line that this is about increasing opportunity. It’s not. It’s the next step working to cut average hunters completely out of the equation. Maybe that is what some here want. I’m certain it’s what many pushing these changes behind the scenes want. But it isn’t going to increase opportunity. It’s the next cut in an effort to cut most of us us completely out.

diablo said:
The way I read it, this is a five year (four season) research project on a few units. I’m all for it. Let’s see what happens. Rolling back tech is a great idea. Easy for me to say though…I don’t hunt those units.
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And those that do hunt those units that don’t want these regulations are going to go where? The NIMBY apathy here will be putting things in your own backyard soon enough.
 
Hoss, pretend I’m a local and I’ve been hunting the Cache Unit the last 30 years with the Pre 64 model 70 30.06 my grandpa gave me when I turned 14 that has a cheap 35 year old 3x9 scope on it.

What’s my application strategy for 2025? That is your answer on how it cuts the average guy out.

Again, don’t believe for one second the line that this will increase opportunity. We’ve been told that on how many of the changes recently? Need we look at the tag allocations to verify if they have gone up or down the last 5 years?
 
Vanilla said:
Hoss, pretend I’m a local and I’ve been hunting the Cache Unit the last 30 years with the Pre 64 model 70 30.06 my grandpa gave me when I turned 14 that has a cheap 35 year old 3x9 scope on it.

What’s my application strategy for 2025? That is your answer on how it cuts the average guy out.

Again, don’t believe for one second the line that this will increase opportunity. We’ve been told that on how many of the changes recently? Need we look at the tag allocations to verify if they have gone up or down the last 5 years?
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See, now you're playing the same game Bess and others play

You will increase oppurtunity by retaining more does. That's a habitat and predator issue.


You increase bigger bucks by smaller bucks not getting killed. That's a weapon and tech issue.


We can chew gum and walk at the same time .

.Perhaps what we need to do, is haul a bunch of farm bucks out to Lee Kay, dudes can set up the 300 ultra mag with their 20x scope, and they can shoot a deer.



I'll answer it as it pertains to me.


I hunt with a 30-06 abolt my dad gave me in 1990. It has a Leupold vari x 3x9.

When unit restrictions started, I picked up a Thompson New Englander. As tags got restricted more, I picked up a bow.

At each step, I chose to be a hunter. If they outlaw rifles muzzies and bows, I'll pick up a sling shot. Because I choose to be a hunter.

I again, can attest to restrictions working. I know of one, mid twenties heavy horned buck that was still breathing after I chocked a muzzy shot, that with a scope, wouldn't have happened. I'm not alone I assure you.

So will this increase oppurtunity? Yes. I guarantee some dudes will drop out, but many will see easier tag draw and apply.

Will guys possibly need to buy new guns? Sure. Maybe instead of the 12" infotainment system on the power stroke they may need to get buy with the 10" to free up some change.

Or maybe, they can sell that $5000 scope on ebay and buy a blr or 94' and a new hawken.

Maybe go 33" instead of 35" on the rzr.

I'm betting the Pine Valley will be a massive draw in 3-4 years
 
I don't know whether true or not, but I would sure like to see it go through. Had a friend get one with a flint-lock this year. Said he had a blast. I would like to see Monroe Mountain as one of those restricted areas. Most of those who remember the first hunts would like to see it back. I purchased two in-lines and would cut them into pieces if I thought it would send a message. The Jonny-come-lately muzzleloaders would surely disagree, and they are certainly not the purist. Most are just there for another hunt to see how far they can shoot a deer and brag about the yardage.
 
Vanilla said:
And those that do hunt those units that don’t want these regulations are going to go where? The NIMBY apathy here will be putting things in your own backyard soon enough.
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🤷🏻‍♂️ Another unit or Colorado or Wyoming or…

I only hunt with primitive weapons anyway so I’d be fine with going statewide right off the bat here but I’m fine with testing these ideas on a few units first.
 
There's alot of better ways to improve our deer herds but most of them would cost the state and dwr money sooo lets go with weapon restrictions and increase tag sales to make more money and the he!! with the deer herds
 
hossblur said:
I guarantee some dudes will drop out, but many will see easier tag draw and apply.
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Dudes dropping out...isn't that what I told you above is the goal here? And no, I do not view that as a positive.

hossblur said:
Will guys possibly need to buy new guns? Sure.
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So you are in favor of making harder for the average guy and easier for the rich dude that already gets to circumvent the draw process? This seems really inconsistent with prior rants, hossy!

Just mark my words, this is a continuation of removing average hunters from the equation, and I'm not going to sit idly by while they do it. I will probably still lose and get kicked to the curb by these folks, but I'm at least going to put up a fight.
 
I love it. I wish they would make the whole state 4 point or better for adults, youth is a 2 point or better and no spike deer can be shot.

As far as the primitive weapons...don't restrict the whole unit to primitive weapons. But rather significantly limit the tags and dates for technology weapons and give the primitive weapons the best dates ranges and lots of tags.
 
hossblur said:
I'm betting the Pine Valley will be a massive draw in 3-4 years
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It took 7 to draw the rifle tag this year for NR. lol

Thats a long time to apply for spikes and forkies.


1729790273035.png
 
Those of us who don't hunt those units have no business complaining about the proposals.

Another irony here is when the Technology changes happened, people went bazzerk about centerfire rifles not being further restricted than the scope electronics.
Now look at the complaints because they are actually trying exactly what so many wanted.

What gives?🤷‍♂️
 
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diablo said:
Such as?
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Here's a couple..habitat improvement.. There's thousands of acres of winter range that's being over run with cheat grass it would help if this problem was taken care of...I live right off of a hiway where hundreds of deer get slaughtered every winter mostly does counting the unborn fawns that's pretty hefty number of deer wasted every year high fencing these roads along with safe crossings either overheads or tunnels would definitely improve many deer herds..and this is just for starters..there's much more that could be done..but very expensive
 
yoteduster said:
Here's a couple..habitat improvement.. There's thousands of acres of winter range that's being over run with cheat grass it would help if this problem was taken care of...I live right off of a hiway where hundreds of deer get slaughtered every winter mostly does counting the unborn fawns that's pretty hefty number of deer wasted every year high fencing these roads along with safe crossings either overheads or tunnels would definitely improve many deer herds..and this is just for starters..there's much more that could be done..but very expensive
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Bingo!!!!
 
slamdunk said:
Those of us who don't hunt those units have no business complaining about the proposals.
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I've hunted Pine Valley for deer mulitple times, so even by your definition I get to complain.

That said, that is complete hogwash! None of these things are done in a vacuum. These restrictions are absolutely going to have implications outside of their unit boundaries.

This is very different from the technology committee and what was done on muzzies. That was a policy decision that the state made in recognizing they wanted a specific hunt to be different than what it was becoming, so they made an across the board policy decision.

These are "deer management" strategies that are completely BS, and the camel's nose in the tent for very bad things to come. Don't say I didn't warn ya, fellas!
 
Vanilla said:
Dudes dropping out...isn't that what I told you above is the goal here? And no, I do not view that as a positive.



So you are in favor of making harder for the average guy and easier for the rich dude that already gets to circumvent the draw process? This seems really inconsistent with prior rants, hossy!

Just mark my words, this is a continuation of removing average hunters from the equation, and I'm not going to sit idly by while they do it. I will probably still lose and get kicked to the curb by these folks, but I'm at least going to put up a fight.
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*dudes will drop out of those units*

You think there's a long line of dudes wanting to pay $15k to hunt the boulder with a side hammer muzzy?

20 spotters on scopes don't mean a thing if your range is roughly 100 yards.

Elimination of expensive tech levels playing fields.


As a dad who outfitted one boy, and is outfitting a second, that's a savings.
 
yoteduster said:
Here's a couple..habitat improvement.. There's thousands of acres of winter range that's being over run with cheat grass it would help if this problem was taken care of...I live right off of a hiway where hundreds of deer get slaughtered every winter mostly does counting the unborn fawns that's pretty hefty number of deer wasted every year high fencing these roads along with safe crossings either overheads or tunnels would definitely improve many deer herds..and this is just for starters..there's much more that could be done..but very expensive
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All of that is true.

This costs nothing
 
Vanilla said:
I've hunted Pine Valley for deer mulitple times, so even by your definition I get to complain.

That said, that is complete hogwash! None of these things are done in a vacuum. These restrictions are absolutely going to have implications outside of their unit boundaries.

This is very different from the technology committee and what was done on muzzies. That was a policy decision that the state made in recognizing they wanted a specific hunt to be different than what it was becoming, so they made an across the board policy decision.

These are "deer management" strategies that are completely BS, and the camel's nose in the tent for very bad things to come. Don't say I didn't warn ya, fellas!
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These are 2 things.

1. Shutting up all the bitching.

We will get a concrete antler restriction study. We will KNOW if it works or not.

2. We will get an affect of tech experiment.

We both know, the age class is going to increase with both.

So then, we can combine that HOPEFULLY with habitat, fencing, predator work and create OPPURTUNITY for better bucks, and increased oppurtunity.

Or

We will know that none of that matters, which means, you and I lose, and tag cutting increases
 
hossblur said:
1. Shutting up all the bitching.

We will get a concrete antler restriction study. We will KNOW if it works or not.
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I listened to the DWR say this very thing when they proposed it at the last RAC cycle. "We already know this isn't going to work, but we're doing it to give people what they want and we can show it doesn't work." That is sound biology and policy, for sure! Good hell, is right!

hossblur said:
If that's the concern, let's end LE, lots of places to go.
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This is my rub, hoss. For the situations people are trying to create with these dumb restrictions on weapons and antler points, they already have LE. Let them go wait in line for their older age class animals there. This is just futher restricting our hunting ability even more and more. I'm 100% against it. Get ready for your future tag cuts that will inevitably follow these idiotic restrictions.

But I've always been, and always will be a proud opportunist here! For not only myself, but for everyone. Unlike some we know...
 
slamdunk said:
Like MOST of us agree on this website, "Bucks Don't Build Herds".

These proposals, worthless or not are simply tests to see if we can grow some age classes, "quality".

Growing deer is an entirely different beast not even addressed within these proposals.
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Exactly.

The point my friend Vanilla keeps missing.

The tag numbers aren't based on age class, that's all this is doing.
 
These request must be coming from a very small group of primitive weapon hunters. I thought this already failed last year. I'm trying to remember, but I don't think Cache was a unit in the first study. I don't think Cache has very many deer.
 
Trust me Hossy, I'm not missing that point, I just don't agree with it.

If people want "quality" hunts, we have them. If people want HAMS hunts, we have them. So quit taking opportunities away from those of us that simply want to hunt and giving them up to that very small interest group D_Hoyt is wise enough to realize exists in his post above. They already have places to do what is being proposed here. Leave the rest of us the hell alone!
 
We’re hunting surplus bucks you’re not going to have the surplus bucks if you keep lowering the buck/doe ratio. We’re fighting a uphill battle with all the things going on with our habitat.
 
quest said:
We’re hunting surplus bucks you’re not going to have the surplus bucks if you keep lowering the buck/doe ratio. We’re fighting a uphill battle with all the things going on with our habitat.
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Yes, to a certain degree.

We are "hunting" these surplus bucks, but with the limited and restricted weapons, the idea is more hunting than killing.
 
D_Hoyt said:
These request must be coming from a very small group of primitive weapon hunters. I thought this already failed last year. I'm trying to remember, but I don't think Cache was a unit in the first study. I don't think Cache has very many deer.
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They actually aren't.
These committees are built from varying entities from low ballers to extremists and everything in between, that way the views, ideas and votes are from very broad ranges that come together.

It did actually fail per say, more of a "postponement" until the current cycle was completed.
 
So the kill ratio is to high so we need to make it harder for you to get your deer and by doing so will be able to put more hunters out in the field to compete with you.
 
I think they are trying the restricted hunts on the lowest population units. No fight from me, I will wait for the changes in the unit I like to hunt. Lifetime permit holders are going to reap the benefits from the surplus bucks in 3 years
 
Oh by the way Pine Valley has way too many coyote's. I took one out this year trying to get my turkey decoys at 70 yards. Dropped him like a rock. I didn’t think my 20 gauge could shoot that far those turkey load are something else. Don’t tell the task force 😉
 
quest said:
Oh come on… slamdunk you never give up.
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Nope, just saying this is their thought process.

Lower success rates, increase opportunities.

I don't hunt any of these units so I don't have an investment in it, but I'm all for something to change.

My general season unit in Wasatch West, I'd be doing cartwheels if they implemented these options.
 
Hossblur said
We will get a concrete antler restriction study. We will KNOW if it works or not.

A long time ago the Book Cliffs was 4 point or better! The DWR went away from it because they said it didn’t work.
 
Camper_A1 said:
Hossblur said
We will get a concrete antler restriction study. We will KNOW if it works or not.

A long time ago the Book Cliffs was 4 point or better! The DWR went away from it because they said it didn’t work.
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Listen to yourself....."they said it didn't work".

Do you believe them?

I was there, I hunted it and the Henry's when it had an APR.
They opened both units to Any Buck and had an emergency closure 3 years later.

Ain't nobody going to EVER convince me the APR's didn't work, I was there!
 
Keystone said:
Poisoning predators wasnt the only thing that bumped the age class in the "golden age.

Ask your dad and granddad what eeapon he used.

Springfields, Enfields, Winchester levers i bet was 70-80%

The expensive rigs might of had a 4x Weaver.

A lot of deer walked because they couldnt get hit.
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Think I still have an old Weaver 4x that was on my Herters .243 when I was a kid. Might have to did it out.
 
slamdunk said:
Listen to yourself....."they said it didn't work".

Do you believe them?

I was there, I hunted it and the Henry's when it had an APR.
They opened both units to Any Buck and had an emergency closure 3 years later.

Ain't nobody going to EVER convince me the APR's didn't work, I was there!
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It worked on the wellsville also
 
elkassassin said:
The Henry's Was So Hunted Out & F'D Up It Had To Be Closed!
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Yes, because they opened it to any buck with antlers longer than 5"........it was a meat hunters dream come true.

When I hunted it before the closure, we'd be there for 2 weeks and count on less than two hands how many hunters we saw.
 
Hey Nilly!

I've Asked For years Why You Are Not On The WB?

We Want The BS Straightened Out!

And We Want It Now!

I'll Be So Glad When They Open Big Game Hunting Up Year-Around!

Can you Imagine NO OPENING F'N DAY?
 
slamdunk said:
They actually aren't.
These committees are built from varying entities from low ballers to extremists and everything in between, that way the views, ideas and votes are from very broad ranges that come together.
Click to expand...


Sorry Slam, but that’s BS! It would be a public process if they truly wanted it to be representative of the public.
 
Vanilla said:
Sorry Slam, but that’s BS! It would be a public process if they truly wanted it to be representative of the public.
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C'mon Niller, you know full well how these work.

The public gets heard through the RAC's, not to mention there are always at least one GP on each given Committee.
 
I do know how this works. Very well. That’s why I can’t buy what is being sold.

Everyone has opinions on this stuff. And people are entitled to them. But I’m going to call out the back door BS that threatens our hunting and our heritage whenever I see it. And there has been A LOT of that on these committees over the years. This one isn’t much different, IMO.
 
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Vanilla said:
I do know how this works. Very well. That’s why I can’t buy what is being sold.

Everyone has opinions on this stuff. And people are entitled to them. But I’m going to call out the back door BS that threatens our hunting and our heritage whenever I see it. And there has been A LOT of that on these committees over the years. This one isn’t much different, IMO.
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I can partially agree.
Being on two different committees now, I have questioned certain faces and members I see sitting at the round table.

But all in all, I see GP to law enforcement and everything in between on these things, it's not a biased group.

Do you follow any social media DNR pages or even general Utah hunting pages and read the GP comments?
That alone should explain why the GP has very little impact on what the final decisions are.
 
elkassassin said:
And To The Boys That Thought It Was Funny Because They Didn't Screw With YOUR Weapon Type!

This Is Just Foot In The Door!

You Boys That End Up YANKING That 5,000.00 Scope Off Are Gonna BAWL And Then We'll See How Much You Like That 15K Rifle Without The Scope!
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They should have fought to keep scopes on muskets, if they want to keep long range rifles.
 
Where did they take oppurtunity from anyone who wanted to hunt?

They are proposing what weapon you can use.

Do you want to hunt, or are you in love with a weapon?

There's places for weapon love, they are called ranges.
 
Camper_A1 said:
Hossblur said
We will get a concrete antler restriction study. We will KNOW if it works or not.

A long time ago the Book Cliffs was 4 point or better! The DWR went away from it because they said it didn’t work.
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Fair.

A long time ago dudes hunted open sights too
 
Vanilla said:
I do know how this works. Very well. That’s why I can’t buy what is being sold.

Everyone has opinions on this stuff. And people are entitled to them. But I’m going to call out the back door BS that threatens our hunting and our heritage whenever I see it. And there has been A LOT of that on these committees over the years. This one isn’t much different, IMO.
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You keep alluding to something that no one can figure out.


What dark force is in the backdoor pushing primitive weapons?

It can't be the guides, did you miss their melt downs for limiting cams? Can't be deep pockets, they were threatening lawsuits and doxxing committee members for taking 20x off their muzzies.


So who EXACTLY is it you are accusing of this conspiracy?
 
hossblur said:
You keep alluding to something that no one can figure out.


What dark force is in the backdoor pushing primitive weapons?

It can't be the guides, did you miss their melt downs for limiting cams? Can't be deep pockets, they were threatening lawsuits and doxxing committee members for taking 20x off their muzzies.


So who EXACTLY is it you are accusing of this conspiracy?
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The bunch of crybaby pussies that want it “fair” and still can’t killl ****.
 
hossblur said:
You keep alluding to something that no one can figure out.


What dark force is in the backdoor pushing primitive weapons?

It can't be the guides, did you miss their melt downs for limiting cams? Can't be deep pockets, they were threatening lawsuits and doxxing committee members for taking 20x off their muzzies.


So who EXACTLY is it you are accusing of this conspiracy?
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Hoss, I’ve sat and listened to you say “follow the money” a million and two times on this forum. So here is my version of “follow the money.”

Who benefits the most from these changes?

Therein lies your answer that you seek. And if you don’t think certain people and/or groups benefit from these changes, I’ve got some property I want you take a look at. Ocean view, right outside Flagstaff.
 
slamdunk said:
C'mon Niller, you know full well how these work.

The public gets heard through the RAC's, not to mention there are always at least one GP on each given Committee.
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I can't believe you can say this with a straight face. The RAC process allows for the public to have comment and serves its purpose as a pacifier that can be conveniently pointed to in times like these. Even when the RACs agree in a majority on a recommendation or change, the WB still does whatever the WB wants. I actually feel for the people who donate their time to the RACs and the countless committees the state creates because the WB has shown time and again that our prized public process doesn't matter to them, it is all a dog and pony show. I still continue to try, because it is all we have. But my belief in the process dwindles more each cycle.

Committees with dozens of people, especially with competing special interests, will result in compromise. Compromise is great in relationships, but it is terrible when the end goal is finding the very best solutions. You can't make everyone happy and committees are a prime example of this on even a small scale.

I believe the following still holds true: If it is a biology issue, leave it to the biologists. If it is a social issue, each individual should get an equal amount of say. SFW, MDF, RMEF, the NAACP or PETA shouldn't get more or less say just because they have an organization.
 
This is my thoughts. So I have hunted the pine valley and I did lived in st George for 5 years.

The pine valley is very pristine unit for growing deer there really isn't a lot of winter kill down there.
I think if there going to do a study on Antler Point Restrictions we need to pick five units.
Pine valley
south slope vernal
cache
Manti
san Juan Abajo

This will give them a better study through-out the state.
 
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Simpleton said:
I can't believe you can say this with a straight face. The RAC process allows for the public to have comment and serves its purpose as a pacifier that can be conveniently pointed to in times like these. Even when the RACs agree in a majority on a recommendation or change, the WB still does whatever the WB wants. I actually feel for the people who donate their time to the RACs and the countless committees the state creates because the WB has shown time and again that our prized public process doesn't matter to them, it is all a dog and pony show. I still continue to try, because it is all we have. But my belief in the process dwindles more each cycle.

Committees with dozens of people, especially with competing special interests, will result in compromise. Compromise is great in relationships, but it is terrible when the end goal is finding the very best solutions. You can't make everyone happy and committees are a prime example of this on even a small scale.

I believe the following still holds true: If it is a biology issue, leave it to the biologists. If it is a social issue, each individual should get an equal amount of say. SFW, MDF, RMEF, the NAACP or PETA shouldn't get more or less say just because they have an organization.
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100% truth right here folks!
 
The thought of just hunting 4 points only it’s gonna wipe out any advantage they get in the Pine Valley unit in the long run. If they rotate it every other year you’ll grow deer/bucks and you’ll have a better age class. Only problem is everyone gonna want that tag bummer🤔
 
They might have to cut tags back during any buck year in the Pine Valley unit so they don’t wipe out any gains. These are just thoughts!
 
GS Deer.jpg


Here are your resident general season deer applicants and tags since 2010.

I want the permits line to match the up trend of the applicants line. Otherwise we have a loss of opportunity. We can manage for crowding. The wildlife board needs to be dynamic to keep those trend lines the same. This might mean thinking outside the box and coming up with more tags for lower harvest rate weapons. I don't think this is taking anything from anyone and should be explored.

@Vanilla I am surprised you are against this. You have been a great advocate for opportunity. You were 100% correct in advocating to keep GS elk OTC and the changes the DWR made were excellent. I was wrong then to advocate for it going to a draw. I think exploring ways to get that permit trend line up is the way to go and maybe weapons restrictions are a way to do it? I am open to all other ideas and to trying things out.

Let's not bring up past crap behavior of the wildlife board and assume it can't change. Let's come up with solutions to a real problem and advocate those good ideas to the RAC and WB
 

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Bearpaw Outfitters

Experience world class hunting for mule deer, elk, cougar, bear, turkey, moose, sheep and more.

Wild West Outfitters

Hunt the big bulls, bucks, bear and cats in southern Utah. Your hunt of a lifetime awaits.

J & J Outfitters

Offering quality fair-chase hunts for trophy mule deer, elk, shiras moose and mountain lions.

Shane Scott Outfitting

Quality trophy hunting in Utah. Offering FREE Utah drawing consultation. Great local guides.

Utah Big Game Outfitters

Specializing in bighorn sheep, mule deer, elk, mountain goat, lions, bears & antelope.

Apex Outfitters

We offer experienced guides who hunt Elk, Mule Deer, Antelope, Sheep, Bison, Goats, Cougar, and Bear.

Urge 2 Hunt

We offer high quality hunts on large private ranches around the state, with landowner vouchers.

Allout Guiding & Outfitting

Offering high quality mule deer, elk, bear, cougar and bison hunts in the Book Cliffs and Henry Mtns.

Lickity Split Outfitters

General season and LE fully guided hunts for mule deer, elk, moose, antelope, lion, turkey, bear and coyotes.

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