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Show your support for Springbear

A bunch of BULLSHIT !!!

Good on ya springbear. You did nothing wrong, and we're all thankful for your predator control efforts.
 
The hundreds of thousands of elk, deer, moose, bears and other animals that have been slaughtered by these "native" wolves is a way worse case of animal cruelty than anything that guy did.
 
He has my support and any way I can help let me know! If its letter writing or helping by pitching in for legal fees!

I think every big game hunter owes a debt to those harvesting wolves.

Bill

Kill the buck that makes YOU happy!
 
+1000 to all above comments. Springbear you are the man and my hats off to you. The only thing illegal or inhumane about this whole deal was the chicken ##### enviro freaks and the state and federal officials who allowed illegal dumping off non native wolves in the first place. They should have there arses sued off and ate off by wolves.
 
There's no way they can do anything to him, he did nothing wrong! The "bunny huggers" are just trying to find anything they can use to get the killing of these worthless animals stopped! "But...it just goes too show use, be careful what you put on the net"! You never know who's looking.

Keep us updated on this Springbear...I'll help in any way i can!!!!
 
I wanna know why ktvb decided to post it, with his photos?? Seems as if there agenda may be skewed as well......
 
Unreal... The article certainly makes him look bad. I hope it all works out for you Springbear!
 
If it is possible to prosecute a man for animal cruelty, shouldn't it also be possible to prosecute an organinzation that caused a whole lot a animal cruelty by introducing the wolf back?
 
This whack job enviro nut offered a thousand dollars for someone to off him. They better have this freak behind bars

http://m.facebook.com/home.php?refsrc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2Fm%2Fsearch&refid=9&_rdr#!/photo.php?fbid=404267232917164&id=213339158676640&set=a.217782791565610.64005.213339158676640&__user=100000489278175
 
Its amazing how screwed up this world is. People have nothing better to do then waste their time and effort trying to make another persons life miserable....
I find it ironic they say it suffered when it was just caught by the paw and then he walked up and shot it... Sounds terrible... Kind of like getting chased for miles until you cant run any longer and then have a creature bite your hind quarters and then eat you alive. That sounds much better.
As others have said springbear if we can help in any way let us know. You have a lot of supporters that would be more then happy to help finacially or any other way you might need help.
 
LAST EDITED ON Apr-05-12 AT 10:12AM (MST)[p]i fully support springbears right to trap, to pose next to the animals caught in traps with his family ect. it is his right to be proud of what he does and display it on the world wide web as well.......however, it is also his own fault for the mess he is in . this is the very reason i do not "facebook", twitter or show ANY pics on this or any site of myself , family period, period, period !!

he and i went rounds a few years ago regarding a pic he had with a caught bobcat struggling in a trap with his kids smilling in the foreground. what i did was wrong he is within the boundries of the law 1000%. however that doesn't mean we all have to be overjoyed with the photo. if some of those pics bothered me a life long hunter, shooter of vermin for sport guy the average joe or jane would flip !

again i fully support springbear and his family. thanks for the wolf killing too !! how did this all come about anyway, with ktvb and such
 
way to smoke some Wolf Ass "Springbear" u have my support as well ..I have trapped for over 30 years & I take pics of my animals trapped NO DAMN DIFFERENCE than taking a pic of a buck bull or any other game animal taken !!! I trapped in an area that did not allow wolf trapping which is another F&G head up their ass problem why not open the entire state up for trapping it was open for any weapon ??? the story & picture was picked up by a wolf lover group in Montana there is another article posted on Trapperman.com...I hope SB sues their asses off it is against the law for one to distribute pictures owned by another person without their written permission..hell they even interviewed some Dip ##### that claims to have done mental evaluations on animals & he stated that animal was in Severe distress !!! Who gives a flying ##### "why dont these wolf loving hiprocrits cause this kind of news media when they see a wolf eating the ass or the nose off a deer elk or someones PET" WAY TO GO SPRINGBEAR !! its too bad the other 900 people that took the Idaho mandatory wolf trapping classes didnt do as well !!!
 
As far as I know, and Springbear can step in if I'm wrong, this picture was on trapperman.com, and that's where the enviros got ahold of it. I read a story on yahoo, I think it was even posted in the general forum, maybe campfire, anyways it didn't show pics, just mentioned that a trapper had taken a picture of a wolf in a trap with a ring of blood in the snow. I didn't know it was Springbear, but his pic was the first thing to come to mind. Then, I saw it on KTVB. Figured I would post here and show my support.

As for the crowd gathered that was watching the wolf and shooting at it, isn't it illegal to disturb any trap or animals in traps that don't belong to you?

How is this any different than taking a fish out of water to take a picture? Are you not prolonging its suffering by taking the picture? I don't understand what the deal is. He probably took an extra 5 min to take the picture. So, if he stopped to take a piss on the way to check his traps, wasn't that "prolonging the animal's suffering"?

This is an overreaction to nothing. I don't know why KTVB carried the story, and they didn't seem like they were supporting him. The F&G also tried to cover there own ass by saying "in our view, it was a mistake for him to take a picture with the live wolf behind him and post it." Why doesn't anyone have the balls to stand up and say what's right, without backpedaling afterwards?

He did nothing illegal. End of story.

"Suck it, terrorists," -Keith Stone
 
I think we are looking at several things here ... 1. was it legal 2. was it ethical 3. was it smart. I would say the answer to the first question is, what springbear, did was probably legal (although the part about humanely dispatching the animal is questionable). The answer to the second question is, in my personal opinion, what springbear did was questionable at best and probably unethical by posing with the animal still caught in the trap and not dispatching it immediately and he has posted similar picture in the past (bobcat with both him and his daugther posing in the foreground). The answer to the third question is a flat out NO ... it was monumentally stupid.

I would say Springbears actions would be tantamount to you or I wounding an elk or deer and while it was thrashing around jumping in for a quick picture with a big smile on our faces. I don't know ... maybe what I was taught about taking life/hunting is wrong, but you do as quick and humanely as possible you owe it to the animal.

I'm sure I am going to get all kinds of blow back, but let me tell you what Springbears stupidity has just done ... not only is he now the face of all hunters, but he is also now the poster boy for why states shouldn't be allowed to manage the wolf population. I love being in the outdoors, hunting and fishing too much to have some dumbass ruin it by not thinking!

Next time, for God's sake do the right thing and put the animal down immediately there is plenty of time for pictures later!!!
 
Gotta be honest, I am almost shocked it took this long. Not talking specifically about springbear at all.

Seen some cringe-worthy pics posted on this site and others. It's one thing to snap a few *questionable* pics to share with buddies or whatever but a whole huge mess if they get in the wrong people's hands. The picture in question does not bother me in the least, but have to admit I can see why some are bawling about it.

This is one of the several reasons I do not post pictures in these chatholes. It's a shame cuz it's fun to share but I'll only email pics to guys who want to see them these days.

idgator needs to lighten up a bit.










the artist formerly known as "gemstatejake".
 
I have been in contact with KTVB.com and they are trying to get ahold of springbear to do a full story and I ripped the guy up for posting a bad story without all the info. I explained to him about the drag set gettin frozen and failing to let the wolf take cover he hadnt heard that part of the story. I am so worked up bout this that I am getting in contact with govener Otter. I am sure springbear has been adviced by his lawyer not to comment but really think his lawyer should talk to KTVB to get full story out and he should also mention that it is illegal to mess with animals in a trap that isnt theirs. These animal rights guys are messin around in the wrong state, most of our government officails areoutdoorsmen and ranchers and these DAMN wolves are ruining our way of life. I am sure that this year will be a bad one for the hound guys, with bears out sooner then average and more wolves we will have to many dogs killed, but who is going to cover that story. That is the true animal cruelity when we are out with our dogs and they get killed for wolf fun cause most the time they dont eat them
 
Not that it matters to me or anyone else, but the wolf is a wolf. He didn't choose to be a wolf...

Does the picture bother me? Hell no, but imagine if you were activley involved in a Pro Wolf organization... You'd be pissed to say the least and these kind of pictures would certainly help your cause.

Springbear, I don't know you, but I hope you don't catch any hell from this. Just learn from it and move on. Hell, take as many pictures as you want, just keep them to yourself and friends. We all know that what you did was totally LEGAL, but some people don't see it that way.
 
Regardless of whether you don't approve of the pics....
The person responsible for posting springbears pic and address offering a 1000$ for his head to put on their wall should be in jail for conspiracy to commit murder
 
Tell you right now I am not a fan of trapping. That being said I will stand with anyone to support their method of hunting under legal circumstances and even though I do not like trapping I would stand up for our rights to continue to do so.

Spring bear thank you for your pictures they were very appreciated and helped pass the time away in a good way.
 
Springbear

I've seen several of your pictures the last 2 years and it's very evident to me your a family man, a sportsman and have enjoyed all you shared with us. Hopefully we wil learn from this and we just cant provide any fuel for these SOB'S!! What people are doing is crazy, shame on KTVB for airing the story the way they have and just what in the hell is Wasden doing writing a letter for an ivestigation?? What he should be doing is contacting every law enforcement agency and goping after these crazie's making threats..totally against the law period!!!! Wasden and KTVB will not hear the end of this from me! Lets all voice our opinion to them and support our fellow sportsman!! I killed a wolf in February and posted my picture on here so will I be next or one of you?? I found a cow elk each of my last three trips up hunting this winter all killed by wolves and very dang little eaten a waste of alot of elk that would have fed alot of families.....where is KTVB at when we post these kind of photo's?? Springbear hope the best for you and if you or your family need help dont be afraid to get on here and ask us!!!
 
as far as I can tell KTVB has pulled their story off of KTVB.com
this story should have never been posted since the guy writing it had lil to no facts about what actually happen. Good job to all that have sent comments to KTVB but dont quit now lets get the Govener involved everyone should call into his office in the morning and tell him what we think of attorney general Wasden for calling for further investigation of springbear!!!!!!!!!
 
well I looked agian and its still there sorry now we need to flood ktvb with comments
Matthew Standal [email protected] this is the guy that I have been in contact with I think he would like to hear what everyone has to say
 
Don't be surprised if this does not happen more in the future in all states... and to people we know and possibly from this site. I have already seen this survelliance in action with friends who are farmers and ranchers.... and having the same people driving by and stopping repeatedly over the course of a few years. They flee whenever their is attempt to find out why they are parked on private access ect.....

http://www.takepart.com/blog-series...iolence-animal-rights-group-uses-drone-planes



You know of anyone out there that would be interested in Investing to feed their 401K, IRA or Savings that they took out of the Stock Market? A 10 to 12% and this could be higher, depends on the deal? The return on their Investment can be more than once a month.
RIP Lil Bro' "Huntnfever"
 
1st off in my opinion u are WAY OFF base !!! do u have pics of any fish deer elk or any other animals u have legally harvested ??? I am sure u do & have u ever showed them to any one else ?? again I am sure u have !!! Seriously wounding a deer or elk & jumping in for a quick picture u must be hunting high fences or the local zoo what a dumbass remark too make..as for SB posts funny how it was thee most hit post on this forum for quite some time !! everyone giving him the 2 thumbs up for him & his buddies hammering wolves & now 1 picture of a damn wolf in a trap & He is the Face of ALL hunters !!! U need to reread your dumb ass completly off base post !! & appologize to SB & really as a Idaho hunters who ALL want wolves out of Idaho why does it matter how they are harvested I could give a ##### if someone ran one over with a car & posted it !! all right in my opinion another wolf gone how many elk & deer were saved !!!!
 
OLDHORNHUNTER,

You seems a bit upset. Let me respond to your post point by point.

1. In your opinion "I'm way off bas" - that fine, you are entiteled to your opinion ... no matter how wrong it may be.

2. Yes from time to time I do take pics of animals I have taken. What I would never do is wound an animal and take a picture of it with me having a big $hit eating grin on my face while it was still alive and then post it on the internet.

3. Have I showed pictures of animals I have taken to friends ... I would/do if they ask to see them, but I don't ever post them, that's just the way I am.

4. I don't understand you comment about "hunting high fences" this is where I think you tipped the bottle back a bit too far.

5. I don't know if SpringBear's post was the most read or not and, frankly, I don't care if everyone on this site gave it 3 thumbs up.

6. Yes, Springbear will be the face of all hunters ... the picture of a wolf in a trap with the entire area around the wolf covered with blood and SpringBear sitting there with a huge smile on his face ... I promise you every single antihunting organization in this country will have a copy of this picture and will club hunters over the head with it like a baby seal every chance they get.

In addition, here's something else you need to think about ... in this country hunters are a vast minority. It would probably be safe to say that 95+ percent of the people in this country don't hunt and the vast majority of them think our sport is barbaric. The last thing we need is to give those people any reason to question our sport. Rather than having Springbear and his picture be the face of hunting I would prefer the RMEF, DU, Trout Unlimited, Pheasants Forever, etc to be the face of hunting, but I can see you disagree with that sentiment.

7. My dumbass post is right on the money. I'm not looking at this from the perspective of someone who hates wolves so much that I lose all commonsense. I'm looking at this as someone who understands that hunting is a privledge and not a right. I'm also looking at this as someone who wants Idaho to keep control of managing wolves and as someone who doesn't want to keep fighting these negative perceptions of our sport. Sometimes we are our own worst enemies and yes ... Springbear just gave ammunition to those that want to take hunting away from me and you.

8. I don't owe Springbear an apology ... I think HE owes the entire hunting community an apology. I don't know Springbear, he could be a real good guy or not, but what he's just done there is no arguing about. This is NOT good for hunting or hunters. Again, I don't think Springbear's picture is what anyone wants people to think about when they think of hunting.

9. Why does it matter how wolves are harvested ... I for one would like to keep Idaho in control of wolf management, not have them go back on the endangered species list and have the Feds come back and stop the hunting of them. Also, to me, it's a matter of morals and ethics ... you owe it to the animal to be as humane as possible (even if it's a wolf).

OLDHORNHUNTER - if you need a tissue because Springbear is your buddy and my post hurt your feelers then that's your problem.

Have a good evening and Happy Easter to all!
 
idgator, your outcry against another hunter who did nothing illegal gives just as much if not more fuel for the antis. All we need is those groups saying even his fellow hunters think wolf hunting is cruel and should be banned. The last thing we need is to give those people any reason to question our sport, your exact words! If you believe springbear gave them ammunition to take hunting away than your helping them load the clips. The antis can find many more pics on the internet that would give wolf hunting or any hunting a black eye. Its just that wolf hunting in Idaho is a big money maker for them right now and they will use it for their benefit. Dont be a contributor to their cause. If you dont like the pictures dont look at them, just a commonsense approach in my opinion. I stand behind all legal hunting 100% and I hope you will to in the future.

Have a good evening and Happy turkey hunting to the youth this Easter.
 
we all have visions of how wolves kill deer/elk etc. and to those that have not seen it first hand you are led to what you see in pictures and video and what your told or hear. and that media furiates us.
well shoes on the other foot. they knew wolves were being trapped, there was general uproar to wolf killing in general. the trapping issues wasnt a around the world headline, i dont think, kinda swept under the carpet. but know the pro wolfers have pics to flaunt to support their case...whatever that might be. but before pics, they just had there own ideas in their own heads to derive judgements and speculations.
to those of us that have seen the pics, ya we can say thats springbear. pics are legit.more than likely idaho wolf.even though we were not there. what if he wasnt in the pic, not much impact is there. wolf dead being held up by somebody like mt.lion shots,, even less impact. almost considered ho hum.
not knowing who the guy is and a simple caption saying "killed in the yukon" no date,hunter, weapon..etc,, wouldnt even lend hardly a passing glance by most.
to us hunters..guy posts a picture with a big muley, with the rugged idaho backcountry in the background...cool...congrats..good job.. same guy, same deer, atv in the background, with a case of beer strapped to it in a restricted area...same comments???
pictures tell stories to those who were not there? what story are you telling?
i support wolf hunting, absolutely. do i support spring bear absolutely.. is the pics shown in the gray area..my opinion yes.. am i disturbed by them.... nope... can i see where the pro wolfers would be to fight OUR cause... yep but really that goes for all hunting pictures.wolf/ deer/ elk etc
 
Hayzeus, if you read my first post I said did springbear do anything illegal ... probably not. Although, the law clearly states you must humanely kill the animal and that may be questionable in this case when you consider springbear stopped to take pictures before dispatchig the animal.

Having said that, your argument seems to be we as hunter shouldn't police our own and hold ourselves to a high standard. You may be ok with turning a blind eye or maybe this is just a difference of ethical standards. I understand the rallying behind a fellow hunter, however, when I see questionalbe behavior I will call it out each time and every time and if that ruffles your feathers then, as you suggest, don't read my posts.

To suggest that calling another hunter out gives anti hunters more ammunition is 180 degrees off base ... it actually takes that argument away from them as we as hunters are saying this is not respresentative of our sport. Also, my post isn't what was plastered all over the internet it was springbears picture, so please refrain from the hyperbole.

Finally, Heyzeus, you seem to have forgotten how all this started. It started with a single picture posted by Springbear. You can try and vilify me all you want and your very criticism of me, a hunter, is hypocritical to the very point you were making in your post ... pretty ironic really. I support our sport 100% and I hope you will to in the future.

And yes good luck to all youth hunters ... shoot straight!
 
I am one who will never support taking an undue delay before dispatching a wounded animal. I don't think any hunter should. Some things we can't control, but in this instance it was clearly controllable. The legality of "humane dispatch" is grey I will admit. I understand that wolves, like all predators, are not very humane in their dispatch, but that is a wholly mute argument.

I do not think that Springbear's intentions were in any way malicious nor would I want him cited, but I do not agree with his decision and feel as sportsmen we should not feel afraid to say so.

For those who disavow concerns over this impacting our hard earned opportunities to manage wolves, move over to NW Wyoming where they are still fighting for the right to treat wolves any way they see fit.

I know my response will not help this go away for Springbear, which is what I hope for him and his family, which is clearly important to him by his many wonderful pics, but this is more in response to those who seem to only want to pick fights with those who don't share our love of hunting and constantly make comments about "SSS" and "shoot em in the guts", which only antagonizes them into action and fuels their cause.
 
The picture in question was posted here first. I respect everyone's opinion, whether you like the picture, how he took the picture, whether he should have posted the picture etc., etc.

But where were you guys to begin with? I don't remember seeing any negative comments in the first place. I am not afraid of posting a negative comment to someone else, nor am I afraid of getting negative comments from people. Most of us here are adults. This whole site is about sharing opinions and information.

I wonder why founder took the post down? Negative feedback? Everyone is scared of making everyone else angry or sad or upset all the time. I don't agree with springbear posting the picture because people can't handle it. Not because I think it was wrong, and that's my opinion, you are entitled to yours.

I understand people's concern with the humane dispatch and I also don't like to see animals suffer.

But honestly, how long did he wait to kill the wolf?

How long was the wolf in the trap?

If it wasn't for the blood on the snow, would everyone be so concerned about it?

Is this any different than holding a fish out of water to get a picture?

What if it wasn't a wolf? What if it was a coyote? A raccoon? A bobcat?

I have seen lots of pics of coyotes in traps and I've never seen hunters act like this.

"Suck it, terrorists," -Keith Stone
 
>
>I understand people's concern with the
>humane dispatch and I also
>don't like to see animals
>suffer.
>
>But honestly, how long did he
>wait to kill the wolf?


Long enough to pull out his camera, load it, pose, and shoot, instead of doing the same with his gun. That is my issue. Why are pics of a live wolf in a trap better than that of a dead wolf in a trap.

There have been a LOT of pics of dead wolves posted, they didn't get this reaction. Really you don't see the difference?
 
I like seeing a pic of a big old mountain lion in tree before its shot. I like seeing a wolf in a trap before It's shot too. And this is a good idea for springbear or all trappers to do for proof they were trapped before being shot. Maybe you guys are right about posting this on the net.? But what he did was legal. Period.
What these nut job whackos talkin about offing him and rewards for his head for it is not legal.
 
DRHORNHUNTER,

You're making a point here that many have made and I would like to respond to it. The argument that what was done was legal is a legitmate point. However, there is a difference in what is legal and what is ethical, moral or just good judgement.

Let me give you an example of a situation I came across few years ago. I was elk hunting in unit 39. I was up in a basin on the very top of a ridge and was looking at a herd of elk on the opposite ridge, trying to figure out a game plan to get over there and put a stalk on them. Then I heard what sounded like WWII starting ... down the hill below me. As it turns out there were 2 guys looking at those same elk and they started shooting (I stopped counting after 6 shots). I watched those elk go over the ridge and out of sight. I walked down to the 2 guys and they were glassing the basin. I asked what they were shooting at and it was those very elk I was glassing. I pulled out my range finder and ranged it at over 760 yards. I asked them if they hit any of the elk and they said no they ran over the hill. I asked how do they know if they didn't wound one and I suggested that they should go over there and make sure. They said they were going to glass the basin and then work their way over there. I looked around and saw a box of 30-06 remington core-lokt ammunition and rifles that they were using. I can tell you they had no business taking that kind of shot. I told them I was going to walk around the basin to that far ridge and take a look around and would meet up with them to see if they hit anything. I never saw those guys again (maybe I just missed them when then got over there or maybe they never went over there).

Here's my point ... is/was it legal for those guys to shoot that far? I don't think there is any regulation that prohibits a shot at an animal based on distance, so by the letter of the law they did nothing wrong. Was it ethical, moral or in good judgement ... I'm sure they thought so.

Just because something is technically legal doesn't necessarily mean you should do it.
 
BPKhunter, I do see the difference between a pic of a dead wolf and a live wolf. I never said I didn't. I was asking why the wolf gets so much attention, what about any other trapped animal.

I understand the moral/ethical vs legal thing here. It was legal, but ethical? That's for each man to decide for himself. I am not trying to bring anyone down for their opinion. I just want to know if it would have been different if it was another animal, or if there wasn't blood all over. What if springbear was frowning instead of smiling, would that have made everyone happy?

"Suck it, terrorists," -Keith Stone
 
Idabow I think u have made your point U dont like the live wolf in the pic that SB took !!! I personally dont know SB have never met the man ever saw his post on here many many times !! I have trapped most of my life & still do & the picture he took was one that I am sure many many trappers have in their own photo albums { as do I }& he shared it with alot of people !! yourself included but YOU pop off that he HAS done something terribly Wrong go back in the kitchen & bake some cookies !! seriously we as hunters Dont need guys like u giving another Legal law abiding hunter/trapper a bunch of ##### & "ammo" like others mentioned to the Antis...again Spring Bear good post good picture good job & again I am sure 99 % of us are behind u
 
"I don't think he did anything wrong. I support him and all legal hunters and trappers."

"I hope there are no bad consequences."

"This is an overreaction to nothing."

"He did nothing illegal. End of story."

"Most of these enviros hate hunters/trappers more than they love animals. Its really quite disturbing."

These are all cut and pasted from my posts on this thread. The following quote is the only one that could be misunderstood.

"I don't agree with springbear posting the picture because people can't handle it. Not because I think it was wrong, and that's my opinion, you are entitled to yours."


"Suck it, terrorists," -Keith Stone
 
IMO, there is no ethics issue here. The issue is optics. I am loathe to state that the level of ignorace regarding hunting/fishing/trapping and the vital role these activities play is alarming. So many people are easily influenced by emotional response and unable or unwilling to apply any intellect to environmental issues. Social media is the bullhorn of the impetuous.
 
thats right he did nothing Wrong period the Antis took the picture & ran their own version of it !!! they are losing Ground everyday on the wolf issues & as we can all agree we outdoorsmen dont need to be slamming our own & giving those worthless antis any more ammo
 
>BPKhunter, I do see the difference
>between a pic of a
>dead wolf and a live
>wolf. I never said I
>didn't. I was asking why
>the wolf gets so much
>attention, what about any other
>trapped animal.
>
>I understand the moral/ethical vs legal
>thing here. It was legal,
>but ethical? That's for each
>man to decide for himself.
>I am not trying to
>bring anyone down for their
>opinion. I just want to
>know if it would have
>been different if it was
>another animal, or if there
>wasn't blood all over. What
>if springbear was frowning instead
>of smiling, would that have
>made everyone happy?
>
>"Suck it, terrorists," -Keith Stone

Yes the wolf is a lightening rod, as the Grizzly will be. We should be realistic.
 
OLDHORNHUNTER,I think you have made your point as well ... you don't see anything "wrong" with allowing an animal that is in distress to suffer longer, so you can fulfill some personal gratification and memorialize the moment with a photograph before putting it out of it's misery. I think that speaks volumes to who you are and the level of respect or lack there of you have for the very animals you hunt and trap. Obviously, you and I come from two very different places when it comes to this subject.

You also continue to try and I don't know ... intimidate people that state an opinion other than the one you think they should have. You tried this with me and now you are doing it with Idabow. If you can make a cogent point then by all means post it and let's discuss it, but telling someone to stop popping off and go bake some cookies ... seriously?

What we as hunters need is for every hunter to conduct themselves in a manner that reflects well on our sport and the entire community of hunters and when someone does something to the contrary then we, as hunters, have an OBLIGATION to call them out(becasue the actions of one can effect all of us). I think everyone would agree that springbear probably broke no law, but was it the right thing to do? I know a lot of hunters that don't think it was.

OLDHORNHUNTER I would really like to hear where you draw the line as to right and wrong when it comes to hunting/trapping and the life of an animal and please don't start with telling me I'm popping off or to go reread my dumbass post or go bake some cookies or anything to that affect. Please tell me what humanely ending an animals life means to you or does it mean anything?
 
idgator, I dont consider any of your posts "supporting our sport 100%" at all. You seem to critisize those who dont agree with you. Not all of us conduct ourselves in a manner that you see as the right way so your OBLIGATION is just you thinking your OPINION is what everyone else should think.
Traps that are legally set out are to be checked every 72 hours. What did the time it took to take a picture do that was so inhumane? Do you know how long the wolf was in the trap? Have you ever caught an animal in a trap? Do you know why people use foottraps? Do you know what a choke stick is and what its used for? You should find out all the facts about trapping before you become so opposed to it. Sounds to me that you dont have the heart to be a trapper and thats ok but you dont need to be against it, the humane society does enough of that. Theres plenty of people who dont like KILLING animals with any kind of weapon and the time between your bullet leaving your barrel and KILLING the animal is just as inhumane to them as the time to take the picture is to you. So just keep giving the antis more fuel and when they come for the type of hunting that you do feel is ethical to practice then maybe youll see how ignorant you really are. Just somthing to ponder while your waiting for the cookies to bake!

Take care,
Hypocrital Hayzeus
 
Hayzeus, you may want to go back and reread the chronology of the posts. In particular, what you wrote and then tell me who criticized who first. You seem not only to be a hypocrite, but also suffering from some selective memory. If you want to debate with me fine, but don't go crying about the fact that I called you out after you came after me.

To this point you are correct ... not all of us conduct ourselves in a manner that I or you see as the right way that's what makes each of us different and you are correct again in that I hold myself to a pretty high standard or is it you/others may hold yourself to a low standard? All I can tell you is that my upbringing was such that it is considered a privledge to hunt and the hunter must have the highest respect for the animals he/she is hunting. What that means to me, above all else, is that I/we have an absolute obligation when we take life to do it as quickly, cleanly and humanely as possible. I'm infering from your posts that you don't agree with this, but if I'm wrong please correct me.

I'm not sure why you think I'm against trapping ... I'm fairly certain at no point in any of my posts did I ever say such a thing, but why let facts get in the way of you making that up to bolsters the point you're trying to make? For the record I don't trap and don't have any desire to, but if that's your cup of tea ... great.

You asked "what did the time it took to take the picture do that was so inhumane"? This really depends on the definition of humane ... to me this means you dispatch the animal immediately. So, in this case springbear comes up to the trap sees the wolf, assess the situation, takes his pack off, gets his gun, dispatches the wolf then takes some pictures and posts them on MM ... all is good. What I would say is inhumane is letting the animal sit in that trap one second longer than necessary, so springbear can take a picture with a live animal in the trap (whether it's a wolf or any other animal). To me this is a matter of respecting the animal. If you disagree with this please enlighten me and I am being serious ... explain to me why allowing an animal to endure any more time in a trap than is absolutely necessary is not inhumane? Where do you draw the line of unethical behavior or is there a line with you?

Yes ... there are plenty of people that are opposed to all types of hunting, however, where you go off into the weeds is when you try and make the argument that I have to support what I preceive as unethical behavior, so people like you feel better about it. If you seriously think any of my posts would/could do damage to hunting or the hunting community you are truly the ignorant one.

My cookies are done and they're delicious ... oh by the way ... if you go google idgator posts on MM and see what comes up it's nothing. Now go google Idaho Trapper Wolf and see what you get (all kinds of springbear articles) and tell me which action is causing more damage.

If you're interested in a great cookie recipe let me know!
 
So it basically comes down to the fact of wether or not we believe particular types of hunting or how or when the animal is killed is humane enough for us. Did you see him slowly and inhumanly kill this wolf when it was killed? Thats your basic argument to this whole post. It seems that your dislike for trapping is also an issue. I have to believe that when it was killed it was very quick and humane. I dont know that for a fact but I dont believe springbear to be that type of person so ill give him the benefit of the doubt. Will you? Apparently not and neither will the antis you support! In the end it was all legal so we will have to agree to disagree and stop bickering with one another. Ive enjoyed the discussion and respect your opinion.
 
you guys are a bunch of babies while you guys are fighten each other the antis are still workin for the same thing. you would be better fighting with an anti we all are wanting the same thing to HUNT period!!!!!! So quit analizing the other guy who does things a lil different thats their god given right and the best part of being american FREEDOM!!!!!!!!!!!
 
the point I was making was that Springbear took a photo of a wolf in his trap & shared it with the viewers of MM I do not know SB but I am assuming as a ethical hunter/trapper that he dispatched the wolf immediately after taking the pic !! I like many many others looking at SBs post "trapping season has begun" here on MM enjoyed the pics he posted of the various critters he & some of his friends took in fact there was even a few video clips of some animals on trail cameras !! Not One comment was made about any of those videos...my comment to Idabow was that his pointing his finger to SB as the BAD GUY for taking & sharing a pic was uncalled for & was giving ammo to the antis !!! my ethics of hunting are as follows I will not take a questionable shot at an animal Period & I try to put the animal I am after down as quick & humanely as possible !!! as far as my comment about I dont care how a wolf is harvested will not change they are Killing our game animals so if one is shot with a bow great rifle sweet hit by a truck or car runninmg across the road to go kill some more deer or elk !!! Damn right another wolf dead !!! Hope I have cleared up where I stand on wolves for ya !!!!
 
I'm not a tree hugger, but my pic would of been with me and a dead wolf, not one still alive. Why give granola crunchers a weapon?
 
Oldhornhunter, when did I say that SB was the bad guy? Did you read any of the posts? I started this post, I came out and said I supported him before anyone. There were several guys that called him out and said he was wrong. I was not one of them. I also called out all those that are against it, but didn't say anything about the original post, twice already.

If we have a difference of opinion, we can argue until we are blue in the face, or we can simply agree to disagree. But you are accusing me of being on the side that I'm not.

"Suck it, terrorists," -Keith Stone
 
Hayzeus, what it comes down to is, regardless of who you are or how you hunt, we all have an obligation to humanely dispatch the animal. My contention is this ... by not dispatching the animail as soon as he got to it (instead he stopped to take pictures of the live animal in the trap) that is the questionable action. I can't say it any simpler than that. In the time it took springbear to take the pictures the animal was needlessly put through more than it should have been (in my opinion). That is the ethical issue I see. I understand what you are saying ... when he was done with the pictures then he dispatched the animal cleanly ... he probably did, but that's not the point I'm making. Was it legal ... probably. Was it ethical ... in my book no, but others may have different opinion.

Do you really want to keep up the nonsense about my "dislike" of trapping and my "support" of anti hunters. If you have a real point to make (and I know you are capable of it) then make it, but don't degrade your own points/posts with that stuff.

I've enjoyed the discussion as well and I believe you are a man of your convictions.
 
Beardogger, you're right the best part of being an American is freedom ... freedom to voice our opinion is included in that or have I been misunderstanding the 1st Amendment to the Constitution?

Why is it people like you are so threatend by a healthy debate on topics that effect our sport? If you think that anything that has been discussed here hasn't been thought of by anti hunters you're sorely mistaken. By the way I have plenty of time and energy to not only post here, but debate those that are truly against our sport and I do.

Enjoy your freedom, but allow me and others our 1st Amendment rights.
 
OLDHORNHUNTER, you and Hayzeus are making some of the same points, in particular that springbear dispatched the wolf immediately after he took the picture as opposed to dispatching it as soon as he got to the animal. I won't rehash this, please read my last post to Hayzeus where I tried to explain the difference.

My comment regarding springbear, in your opinion was uncalled for, but in my opinion was was entirely accurate and I stand by every single word of it no matter how many exclamation points you use. As far as giving ammo to the "antis" ... I think you are seriously over estimating the power of my posts.

I wasn't asking where you stand on wolves I think you have made that point abundantly clear. I was asking about where you draw the line between right and wrong when it comes to hunting and the life of an animal. Clearly you have one standard for wolves and another for deer and elk even if that very standard is proving ammunition to the antis.
 
I think we all see your intentions you have your opinion & I have mine..and who the Hell are u to question or ask anyone their standards on hunting killing an animal or trapping period !! apparently U are the One we all need to please well I am sorry there gator but lifes a ##### !! U made your stand when u stated that SB had done something wrong & that he was now the face of ALL us hunters..maybe he shouldnt have posted the pic of the wolf in hjis trap { I for one am glad he did } but again that doesnt give U any right to jump his ##### but again thats your choice & ONLY your opinion again I will stand behind SB & that Gator is my Choice Later Gator
 
OLDHORNHUNTER, it's pretty simple, I am a hunter that has to live with the ramifications of what people like springbear do. His actions potentially impact me and my ability to hunt ... that's where I get the right to question his behavior and standards. It's called policing our own and maybe you're ok with turning a blind eye, but I'm not. I find it funny that according to you I don't have the right to question what springbear did, but you have the right to question me? Hmmmmmm.

For someone who jumped my case about giving ammon to antis you seem to have a real double standard here when it comes to springbear.

Also, I can tell you that the prevailing opinion with the people I know that hunt are in-line with mine if not harsher (with very few exceptions). I can also tell you I know several folks that trap that came unglued about what springbear did and sent letters to the fish and game suggesting he get his trapping license pulled. So don't think I'm the only one out here who hunts or traps that doesn't condone what or how he did what he did.

Keep standing behind questionable, immoral or unethical behavior that does damage to our sport and one day we won't have a sport, but that's only my opinion ###!!!!
 
>
>
>For someone who jumped my case
>about giving ammon to antis
>you seem to have a
>real double standard here when
>it comes to springbear.
>
>Also, I can tell you that
>the prevailing opinion with the
>people I know that hunt
>are in-line with mine if
>not harsher (with very few
>exceptions). I can also tell
>you I know several folks
>that trap that came unglued
>about what springbear did and
>sent letters to the fish
>and game suggesting he get
>his trapping license pulled.
>So don't think I'm the
>only one out here who
>hunts or traps that doesn't
>condone what or how he
>did what he did.
>
There's your double standard
You want a trapper who did more good for wildlife probably than any single person in Idaho to lose his license cuz he snapped a quick photo first.
Anti s don't give a ##### if the wolf was alive in the photo or not. It's taken out legally and my hats off to springbear.
And my opinion is not in line with the people you know
 
"I can also tell you I know several folks that trap that came unglued about what springbear did and sent letters to the fish and game suggesting he get his trapping license pulled."

yeah, sure.
 
DRHORNHUNTER/OLDHORNHUNTER, are you guys one in the same or am I talking to two different people? ###

Maybe you should go back and reread my post ... I never said I wanted him to lose his license. I don't agree with the ethics and judgement he used, if it was deemed legal then it was legal, but I don't have to agree with it. There are lot of things that are not illegal but are lacking in ethics and judgement and this was one of them (in my opinion).

That's a pretty bold statement to make that springbear has done more good for wildlife in this state than any other single person. I find that hard to believe, but let's say he has, hopefully, he learned from this experience and he can grow from it.

Yes ... your opinion is not in line with the people I know and that is fine, that's your right to have a different opinion as it is my right as well.
 
like I said before your opinion I will not condemn him like you have done for taking a rare photo !!!!!! get over it END of Story !!!!
 
Deepfork, I work with one guy that showed me the email he sent to F&G and the two others, I have known for 15 years say they did and I have no reason to question them.

Maybe you should go see a psychiatrist for your trust issues. I'm sure it's related to some tramatic event in your childhood.
 
if they truly did that, you run around with a bunch of douchebags!! fish and game even stated nothing illegal was done. sounds like he absolutely did the ethical thing. he was only required to check his traps every 72 hours. he gets a call that he snared one, but people are taking potshots at it, and obviously hit it. he heads out directly to dispatch the wolf, but snaps a photo just before doing so. what about the walk up to the animal? why not complain that he should have tried to kill it RIGHT when he saw it? think of the suffering whle he walked up on it. you can split hairs a lot of ways pal.

so what about all the critters that your buddies trap that possibly get trapped/snared early, yet your buddies dont check on for a couple/few days? how do you view that? those poor animals could have suffered for days before your irresponsible friends went out. this is an outrage. please send me their names so i may complain to fish and game about their LEGAL activities.
 
I think, maybe, this a good way to end this post ... here's the final verdict from the Idaho F&G

http://voices.idahostatesman.com/20...ncomLocalNews+(IdahoStatesman.com+Local+News)

The Idaho Department of Fish and Game said in writing today that Josh Bransford legally trapped a wolf in the Red River area near Elk City on March 18.

Bransford had checked his trap the day before and it was empty. He had 72 hours before he would have been to check it again to be legal.

The agency responded to two environmental groups, which criticized the investigation, saying investigators had no evidence that the wolf had been shot by others. F&G said wardens and Idaho County Sheriff?s deputies had interviewed potential witnesses, but could not confirm reports that the wolf had been shot.

?Fish and Game has not found or received reliable evidence regarding the identity of any such individuals or of illegal conduct,? wrote Fish and Game Director Virgil Moore.

The letters were sent to the Center for Biodiversity and the Friends of the Clearwater.

The story generated national headlines and outrage after Bransford posted a photo of himself with the wolf while it was trapped but still alive.

Here is Fish and Game?s official summary:

The Idaho Department of Fish and Game has received numerous phone calls, emails and letters regarding a photograph taken of a licensed Idaho trapper and a live, trapped wolf taken last month along the Red River in north-central Idaho. The trapper later posted the photograph on a website forum for trappers, generating interest and controversy.

The taking of the photo of a trapper with a live, trapped wolf, and the trapper's posting of this photo online are contrary to the ethics and humane responsibility that Idaho Fish and Game teaches in wolf trapper and hunter education classes. This action reflects poor judgment. However, the trapping and harvest of the wolf were lawful according to our investigation.

There were also reports of shooting at the wolf by others, but Fish and Game has not found or received reliable evidence regarding the identity of any such individuals or of illegal conduct.
Facts:

* On March 18, 2012, Idaho Fish and Game District Conservation Officer George Fischer received a phone call from a trapper who wanted to check a wolf he trapped and subsequently killed earlier that day. DCO Fischer checked in the wolf. It was a male, approximately 3-4 years old with black fur. The trapper had the necessary trapping license and tag and had attended Idaho Fish and Game's mandatory wolf trapping class. The trapper said he caught the wolf on private land in the Red River drainage in a trap set approximately 300 yards from the Red River road.

* The trapper said he checked the trap the night before (March 17) but the trap was empty. The following morning, the trapper received a call from a U. S. Forest Service Law Enforcement Officer notifying him that there was a wolf in the trap, located in a meadow west of the Red River road. When the trapper arrived on scene, he said he used a snowmobile to approach the wolf, which began to fidget as he got closer. He stopped the snowmobile and approached the wolf on foot and waited for it to stop moving so that he could dispatch it. It was during this time the trapper said he posed for a photograph with the live wolf in the background.

* The wolf hunting season was still open at the time the wolf was trapped. The trapper reported seeing "nicks" in the wolf's lower hind legs that he speculated may have been caused by a bullet or bullets fired at the wolf before he arrived on the scene.

* DCO Fischer talked to the Forest Service law enforcement officer, who said the trapper told him he thought someone had shot at the wolf before the trapper arrived on the scene. The officer said he had spoken with a party of woodcutters working on the opposite side of the road from where the wolf was trapped.

* DCO Fischer also talked to a deputy sheriff who arrived on the scene the morning the wolf was trapped. The deputy visited with a member of the woodcutting party, as well as a person out for a walk on the road. The deputy also spoke with three hunters who were driving on the road and stopped while the deputy was talking to the woodcutter. The Forest Service Officer and the deputy did not observe anyone shoot at the wolf and did not receive any indication that any of the individuals they contacted shot at the wolf. Later in the day, the deputy saw the trapper after the wolf was harvested. The trapper told him he thought someone else had shot at the wolf and showed him the "nicks." However, the deputy told Fischer he was not convinced the marks were caused by a bullet.

Status:

DCO Fischer believes the wolf was legally trapped and harvested. To date, no one has provided eyewitness information of anyone shooting from the road or of someone other than the trapper shooting the wolf.

It is illegal in Idaho to shoot from a public roadway or to intentionally interfere with lawful trapping. If anyone witnessed that this did indeed occur, they should contact the Citizens Against Poaching hotline at 1-800-632-5999.
However, people should not use CAP hotline resources if they cannot provide witness information.

Ethics:

Idaho Fish and Game repeatedly reminds hunters, trappers and anglers that they are ambassadors for their activities. Idaho requires all wolf trappers to take a trapping class prior to engaging in trapping.

Idaho Fish and Game devotes a significant portion of the wolf trapping class to trapping ethics. In fact, Fish and Game tells attendees that ethics and responsibility are the most important things the class will cover. The wolf trapping class emphasizes respect for animals, including quick and humane dispatch of the animal. Idaho Fish and Game quotes Aldo Leopold in its wolf trapping and hunter education classes: "Ethics is doing the right thing when no one else is looking, even though the wrong thing is still legal."

To charge someone with a crime, there must be probable cause that a specific person acted in violation of a law based on reliable, factual information. Anonymous or otherwise unreliable reports are not sufficient to charge someone with a crime. And just because an action involves poor judgment or unethical behavior does not make it illegal.

Trapper Not Affiliated with Idaho Fish and Game:

Good luck to all in the turkey and bear opener!
 
Deepforks, you're a little late to the game. Please go back and reread the entire thread on this subject. What needs to be said has been said (on both sides).

As far as being a douchebag you seem to have that covered pretty well. Now, feel free to take your knuckle dragging neaderthal attitude back to your cave and have a great weekend.
 
>Deepforks, you're a little late to
>the game. Please go
>back and reread the entire
>thread on this subject.
>What needs to be said
>has been said (on both
>sides).
>
>As far as being a douchebag
>you seem to have that
>covered pretty well. Now,
>feel free to take your
>knuckle dragging neaderthal attitude back
>to your cave and have
>a great weekend.

it's obvious that the majority are folks with common sense on here are the ones supporting spring bear. you are correct, i did cover the douchebag status very well, describing you and your pals. i have a feeling you were brought up with the "hug a tree" attitude, instead of the "climb a tree". there are a few others on here that share in your line of thinking. they bring great humor to this site. so in case i never stated it before, welcome:)
 
Deepforks - I appreciate your classy and tasteful welcome to the board and I look forward to many posts with the intelligent members (which I would say, even though I disagree with some of them, has been almost everyone right up to the point you posted).

I, unlike you, welcome a difference of opinion and can handle an open honest debate. You, on the other hand, obviously can not and feel threatend by it and I'm sorry to say that your powerful insight into my upbringing is wrong ... big surprise.

I'm glad I can bring some humor to you ... as that is the case, I will make it a point to respond to your future posts just to keep you entertained and in good spirits.

Enjoy climbing the tree, but be careful you don't go too far out on that limb.

Your newest buddy,

Idgator
 
WHAT DID WE LEARN FROM ALL THIS...

MAYBE WE SHOULD HARVEST MORE WOLVES AND TAKE LESS PICTURES.

WHY HOLD THE LIGHTNING ROD UP IN THE SKY DURING A STORM.


MAKES NO SENSE !!!

THE TREE HUGGER CROWD AT THE TOP IS EDUCATED , POWERFUL AND WELL FUNDED. THERE AGENDA IS CLEAR AND THEY ARE ORGANIZED. THEY ARE VERY PATIENT , WITH A 30 YEAR PLAN.

NEVER UNDERESTIMATE YOUR OPPONENT.

THERE IS A REASON WHY THEY UNDER COUNT THE WOLF AND OVER COUNT THE UNGULATES.
 
Muley204, your right on the button, remember a picture is worth a thousand words. Now that being said, lets all go get one!
 

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