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TOOTHandTINE
Guest
Just wondering what everyone uses for a sheep rifle ?? and if you could build a rifle what would it be and what would you put in it??
sheephunter
Active Member
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Melvin Forbes, New Ultra Lite Arms. Model 20, 284 Win., 140 gr. Nosler Partition, 55 grains of IMR 4350. Has worked for me since 1990 sheep, goats, caribou, even elk. Scope of your choice. I use a 6x Leupold compact that has been on it since it was new. A new Swarovski would be nice however. Very light and deadly rifle.
Zeke
Long Time Member
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TOOTHandTINE;
Sheephunter has a sweet combination for sure.
The sky's the limit if you are building or having a rifle built.
I have used a Kevlar stocked .270 win or a fiberglass stocked .300 win mag on about everything. However I have given both rifles to a couple of my daughters!
If I were to buy a factory rifle for sheep I would look at a Kimber Montana in 300wsm, maybe a Rem or even a Browning with a synthetic stock for durability. Lots of punch in a small package!
I just built a rifle for me, to replace what I gave away; 300wsm, stainless Remington 700 action, stainless 24" fluted barrel w/o brake, Brown precision Kevlar stock, Talley base/rings, 3x10 Swarovski TDS crosshair. The gun is new this year so I've only harvested 2 animals with it, Mtn Goat in Utah and a deer in Utah. I use Barnes 150 TTSX, Win case, 68 grs RL-17, WLRM primer @ 3250 chrono'd fps. This load shoots sub MOA in my gun. The last groups at 400 yards averaged 3.87" (disclaimer; this load is for MY rifle only. Work loads up using accepted reloading practices)
Opinions are like noses, everybody has one!
Good luck. It will be fun to see what you end up with.
Sheephunter has a sweet combination for sure.
The sky's the limit if you are building or having a rifle built.
I have used a Kevlar stocked .270 win or a fiberglass stocked .300 win mag on about everything. However I have given both rifles to a couple of my daughters!
If I were to buy a factory rifle for sheep I would look at a Kimber Montana in 300wsm, maybe a Rem or even a Browning with a synthetic stock for durability. Lots of punch in a small package!
I just built a rifle for me, to replace what I gave away; 300wsm, stainless Remington 700 action, stainless 24" fluted barrel w/o brake, Brown precision Kevlar stock, Talley base/rings, 3x10 Swarovski TDS crosshair. The gun is new this year so I've only harvested 2 animals with it, Mtn Goat in Utah and a deer in Utah. I use Barnes 150 TTSX, Win case, 68 grs RL-17, WLRM primer @ 3250 chrono'd fps. This load shoots sub MOA in my gun. The last groups at 400 yards averaged 3.87" (disclaimer; this load is for MY rifle only. Work loads up using accepted reloading practices)
Opinions are like noses, everybody has one!
Good luck. It will be fun to see what you end up with.
littlebighorn
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T&T,
I am with Zeke, in fact I believe he influenced me in choosing my weapon of choice.
I have an out of the box Browning A-bolt in a 300WSM. It has now killed two sheep, my Rocky and my son's Desert just last week. It has a stainless barrel and synthetic stock and it is a joy to carry because it is so light.
I shoot 168g Barnes TTSXs in it and I also get very good results.
Almost any good shooting medium caliber gun will work on sheep, but I think the key component is weight. The other is you have to have confidence that it is going to kill whatever you shoot at. (It has to be a accurate!!!)
Good luck in finding what works for you!
I am with Zeke, in fact I believe he influenced me in choosing my weapon of choice.
I have an out of the box Browning A-bolt in a 300WSM. It has now killed two sheep, my Rocky and my son's Desert just last week. It has a stainless barrel and synthetic stock and it is a joy to carry because it is so light.
I shoot 168g Barnes TTSXs in it and I also get very good results.
Almost any good shooting medium caliber gun will work on sheep, but I think the key component is weight. The other is you have to have confidence that it is going to kill whatever you shoot at. (It has to be a accurate!!!)
Good luck in finding what works for you!
7
7UMHNTR
Guest
I have killed two sheep with my Rifles Inc. 7mm RUM. I am shooting 160gr Accubonds using Retumbo at over 3300 ft. per second. I have had one shot kills on both my Dall sheep and my Stone sheep. The rifle is topped off with a Swarovski 4-12 Ballistic Turret. I have it set up to be able to dial in the yardage and hold dead on out to 600yds. The gun and scope combo weigh just over 6.5 lbs.
Adventurewriter
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The same .270 I got when I was 13....36 years ago. Anything good enough for Jack O'Conner is good enough for me...and if it ain't broke don't fix it
P
patientlywaiting
Guest
Its good to know there are still a few Jack O'Conner fans out there. I fell a sleep many a night reading his articles and have been a .270 fan for the past 40 years because of him and the performance the .270 has given me.
This is my opinion only.......but a good old 130 gr Nosler partition out of a .270 is hard to beat for a sheep, deer, elk gun or most anything else in North America except maybe a real pissed off bear at close range. I'm getting ready to try a Barnes X but old habits have been hard to break. The Partitions have been loyal.
I do wish I would have kept my first .270 like you did Adventurewriter.
Here's a link to a great history/biography for those interested in reading about Mr O'Conner.
http://www.jack-oconnor.org/about/aboutJack.htm
This is my opinion only.......but a good old 130 gr Nosler partition out of a .270 is hard to beat for a sheep, deer, elk gun or most anything else in North America except maybe a real pissed off bear at close range. I'm getting ready to try a Barnes X but old habits have been hard to break. The Partitions have been loyal.
I do wish I would have kept my first .270 like you did Adventurewriter.
Here's a link to a great history/biography for those interested in reading about Mr O'Conner.
http://www.jack-oconnor.org/about/aboutJack.htm
Zeke
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My guess is that if you're alive,a gun guy and sheep hunter you are a "Jack" fan.
There is a fine line between "good enough" and "best" for a specific application. Certainly if someone thinks his is the "best" for him, then that's "good enough"!
The truth is that any good rifle/scope combination will work when combined with good hunting/shooting practices AND you know your limits and cartridge capability. I just want the "best" FOR ME!
Having sold rifles for 20 years (in a prior life), I would NEVER try to stop someone from using a good excuse to buy or build a new rifle!
Like I said; Opinions are like noses, everybody has one!
Good sheep hunting to all!
Zeke
There is a fine line between "good enough" and "best" for a specific application. Certainly if someone thinks his is the "best" for him, then that's "good enough"!
The truth is that any good rifle/scope combination will work when combined with good hunting/shooting practices AND you know your limits and cartridge capability. I just want the "best" FOR ME!
Having sold rifles for 20 years (in a prior life), I would NEVER try to stop someone from using a good excuse to buy or build a new rifle!
Like I said; Opinions are like noses, everybody has one!
Good sheep hunting to all!
Zeke
.270 for a classic sheep gun.
I've had mine for 24 years and its a beat up Remington ADL and have used it on several of Montana's unlimited sheep hunts but never saw a legal ram.
If I was starting from scratch it would be a Winchester M70 featherweight with awesome walnut stock and blued barrel topped with a 4 - 14 or 6 - 20-ish Leupold. Must have a leather sling. I'd try to have a 24" tube instead of the 22" that mine has. The only problem with such a rifle is that it would look too new to honor the sheep, so I'd hunt the crap out of it, drag it through the sage brush and use it to get over fences to ding it up and make it ready for the curly horns.
Someday!!
I've had mine for 24 years and its a beat up Remington ADL and have used it on several of Montana's unlimited sheep hunts but never saw a legal ram.
If I was starting from scratch it would be a Winchester M70 featherweight with awesome walnut stock and blued barrel topped with a 4 - 14 or 6 - 20-ish Leupold. Must have a leather sling. I'd try to have a 24" tube instead of the 22" that mine has. The only problem with such a rifle is that it would look too new to honor the sheep, so I'd hunt the crap out of it, drag it through the sage brush and use it to get over fences to ding it up and make it ready for the curly horns.
Someday!!
P
patientlywaiting
Guest
Zeke, I agree 100% with everything you said. And by the way, in that other life of yours, I bought several guns and my first 2 or 3 Leupold scopes from you, which of course I still have today.
mtAl, How many years have you tried the Montana's unlimited sheep units? and what unit have you hunted? Every summer, we ride the motorcycles over the pass into Redlodge and I'm about running off that road gawking over to that country.
Unless the boundaries have changed the road over Bear Tooth pass is the far east boundry of the unlimited units.
mtAl, How many years have you tried the Montana's unlimited sheep units? and what unit have you hunted? Every summer, we ride the motorcycles over the pass into Redlodge and I'm about running off that road gawking over to that country.
Unless the boundaries have changed the road over Bear Tooth pass is the far east boundry of the unlimited units.
Zeke
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patientlywaiting;
You get around more than anyone I know. When have you got time to ride motorcycles? LOL
You probably know how to use those rifles better than most of my old customers too!
Soon you will be able to actually use your rifle and your skill on a Desert Bighorn! Good for you and good luck soon my friend!
Zeke
You get around more than anyone I know. When have you got time to ride motorcycles? LOL
You probably know how to use those rifles better than most of my old customers too!
Soon you will be able to actually use your rifle and your skill on a Desert Bighorn! Good for you and good luck soon my friend!
Zeke
T
TOOTHandTINE
Guest
Sweet, thanx guys. Still really hard to decide, but definatly getting some idea's.
T
ttj
Guest
My gun of choice for the last few years has been a Christensen Arms 7mm ultra, based upon a remington 700 action. Light and shoots sweet! The only thing that I might take into consideratin is where you will be hunting sheep, and what other animals might be available. I am hesitant to pack my 257 Wby on a sheep hunt up north due to the fact that it would be my only protection, in the event of a grizzly encounter. That situation is unlikely, but it does happen. Having a bigger caliber gives one a bit more piece of mind when tromping around in grizzly country and the option of harvesting other animals, ie., moose. TJ
P
patientlywaiting
Guest
I am obviously looking forward to getting that tag. And thanks for the kind words but sadly enough they both (motorcycle and guns) are collecting alot of dust lately.
Adventurewriter
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That .270, Remingtom BDL got a synthetic stock a few years ago and a Ziess Conquest this year. I broke the trigger guard a few years back and fixed it with with bent metal and liquid iron...ain't pretty but strong and soild. Took my first Big Game animal with it in 1974 ....check out the other thread "Pronghorn Stud" , which was the last animal I took in Septemeber. He should make book with a few to spare.
Took my first and only sheep a 13 year old Full Curl warrior in 2004. So me and that gun have some history.
All DIY
Took my first and only sheep a 13 year old Full Curl warrior in 2004. So me and that gun have some history.
All DIY
Adventurewriter
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Oh yeah one more thing...I was sort of looking at getting a Leoplold...went to Bass Pro and tried them a bunch of scopes side by side...they all look great in all that light the sales guy told me like a spot like 80 yards across the store where there were deep shadows in the rafters and the Ziess was WAY better than the Leoplods....just my experince that for me was the deciding factor
littlebighorn
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For what it is worth, if you are a Jack O'Connor fan, you might note that he used to say, if you have to skimp on any part of your weapon, do it with the scope. Meaning, it is better to put more money into your rifle than the scope that you mount on it.
His thinking was that there are lots of medium priced scopes that are reliable and will do the job. They may not be the clearest or have the most bells and whistles, but if they can help you hit what you aim at that is all you need. He was also not a big fan of shooting long distances (beyond about 350 yards) at an animal, which flies in the face of today's shooting trends.
His thinking was that there are lots of medium priced scopes that are reliable and will do the job. They may not be the clearest or have the most bells and whistles, but if they can help you hit what you aim at that is all you need. He was also not a big fan of shooting long distances (beyond about 350 yards) at an animal, which flies in the face of today's shooting trends.
Zeke
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Jack also said the '06 was a better all around cartridge yet he's only noted for popularizing the .270.
He also didn't have the high tech hunting "tool" that we have today. The laser rangefinder is probably the biggest advantage that we have today, IMO! What about the new popularity of the muzzle brake so we can shoot those big, light guns? Are we all starting to look like "Cabela boy" instead of sheep hunters?
I fall into the trap of gadgetry just like most others so don't throw stones at me.
I vividly remember looking a griz in the eye at spittin' distance and wished (while I was holding my 270) that I had my .338 on that Dall Sheep hunt. Things worked out in the end; I crapped, bear ran! What's the answer? There is not a "one right answer" for a rifle/scope combo!
If Jack were still with us he'd be hunting with a 300wsm! or would it be a 7mmRUM! or a 270wsm! or a..........who knows?
He used the "BEST" for "HIM" at the time and did it reasonably well, just like we should today.
Zeke
He also didn't have the high tech hunting "tool" that we have today. The laser rangefinder is probably the biggest advantage that we have today, IMO! What about the new popularity of the muzzle brake so we can shoot those big, light guns? Are we all starting to look like "Cabela boy" instead of sheep hunters?
I fall into the trap of gadgetry just like most others so don't throw stones at me.
I vividly remember looking a griz in the eye at spittin' distance and wished (while I was holding my 270) that I had my .338 on that Dall Sheep hunt. Things worked out in the end; I crapped, bear ran! What's the answer? There is not a "one right answer" for a rifle/scope combo!
If Jack were still with us he'd be hunting with a 300wsm! or would it be a 7mmRUM! or a 270wsm! or a..........who knows?
He used the "BEST" for "HIM" at the time and did it reasonably well, just like we should today.
Zeke
littlebighorn
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Zeke,
I would never argue with you about guns! It would be like getting into a pissing match with a race horse.
One thing is for sure! Many of us old timers loved that old guy's style and wisdom! (speaking of Jack of course)
I would sure love to know what he would say about hunting today. I think you are right about his choice of guns. He loved his 270, but he also loved his 257 Robers, 7mm, 06, and I think he would really like some of the new modern calibers.
I would never argue with you about guns! It would be like getting into a pissing match with a race horse.
One thing is for sure! Many of us old timers loved that old guy's style and wisdom! (speaking of Jack of course)
I would sure love to know what he would say about hunting today. I think you are right about his choice of guns. He loved his 270, but he also loved his 257 Robers, 7mm, 06, and I think he would really like some of the new modern calibers.
Zeke
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littlebighorn;
You are correct, Jack had style! I could shout that I have his kind of style but it would not make it true.
As for the horse comment; Don't give me too much credit. You've hunted as long as I have. We are both "old timers" by the current standard! (however, we are still relevant)
This thread did the same thing we've seen a hundred times.
Just stand around a campfire and bring up the "gun" topic and watch see sparks fly!
I'm not sure what the other old guys think, but some of the whizz-bang gadgets and practices are just too much for me.
Back to the sheep gun topic; If a sheep hunter wants to use his rifle that he's had for decades, use the rifle! If he wants to build one that HE thinks is a little more suited for the application then build one.
I still think Jack would use a 300wsm! or did I say a 7mmSAUM or did I say a.......LOL LOL
Zeke
By the way; The 270win, 280rem, 300win mag have accounted for every sheep that I've felled. Pretty standard calibers. BUT, the next sheep will be taken with my 300wsm or my 300RUM!!!!!!!! Or maybe a.....Ha Ha
You are correct, Jack had style! I could shout that I have his kind of style but it would not make it true.
As for the horse comment; Don't give me too much credit. You've hunted as long as I have. We are both "old timers" by the current standard! (however, we are still relevant)
This thread did the same thing we've seen a hundred times.
Just stand around a campfire and bring up the "gun" topic and watch see sparks fly!
I'm not sure what the other old guys think, but some of the whizz-bang gadgets and practices are just too much for me.
Back to the sheep gun topic; If a sheep hunter wants to use his rifle that he's had for decades, use the rifle! If he wants to build one that HE thinks is a little more suited for the application then build one.
I still think Jack would use a 300wsm! or did I say a 7mmSAUM or did I say a.......LOL LOL
Zeke
By the way; The 270win, 280rem, 300win mag have accounted for every sheep that I've felled. Pretty standard calibers. BUT, the next sheep will be taken with my 300wsm or my 300RUM!!!!!!!! Or maybe a.....Ha Ha
M
Mounts02
Guest
If you want a long range rifle for about anything you want to shoot. I would get ahold of Troy Justenson with Xtreme outfitting he builds custom rifles that can do the job!! I experienced it first hand on my Sheep hunt this year, it will put um down at extreme long range.The rifle I used was based off the 300rum cartridge.
cbeard
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OK I'll play. Mine is a Nosler Custom 48 in .270WSM shooting Nosler Custom ammo with 140 grain Accubonds.Topped with a Leupold ultralight 3-9X scope and Talley aluminum rings. Bare rifle weighs 6 1/4 lbs. Scope weighs 8 oz. Whole rig (full magazine,strap,everything) weighs 7 1/4 lbs.
Oh,and by the way it consistently prints 1/2 to 3/4" groups.
You guys only think yours is perfect but mine really is.
;-)
Oh,and by the way it consistently prints 1/2 to 3/4" groups.
You guys only think yours is perfect but mine really is.
;-)
Zeke
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cbeard; AKA Perfect
Your combination is about as close to the perfect sheep rifle as I could come up with. (in my opinion, of course)
The only thing I would want different is for the rifle to be mine! I never met a rifle I didn't love! lol
Your rifle is light, accurate and it sounds like you shoot it well. It's a winner! The only thing left is to go hunting!
Zeke
Your combination is about as close to the perfect sheep rifle as I could come up with. (in my opinion, of course)
The only thing I would want different is for the rifle to be mine! I never met a rifle I didn't love! lol
Your rifle is light, accurate and it sounds like you shoot it well. It's a winner! The only thing left is to go hunting!
Zeke
cbeard
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Thanks Zeke! I think so.As you know perfect is in the eye of the beholder-and alot of it is between the ears!If you have confidence in a rifle,it is perfect...
(That said,I was a little tired of lugging mt old Model 70 around the mountains and am really looking forward to the lighter rifle.Took a Fannin ram with the old gun in 2006.Hoping to book a Dall hunt in 2011 and can't wait to try out "Mr. Perfect".)
Clay
(That said,I was a little tired of lugging mt old Model 70 around the mountains and am really looking forward to the lighter rifle.Took a Fannin ram with the old gun in 2006.Hoping to book a Dall hunt in 2011 and can't wait to try out "Mr. Perfect".)
Clay
Zeke
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Clay;
I was on a Stone sheep hunt in 2003 with my light-ish 300 win mag (which I gave to my daughter and she used it to harvest a 163" desert ram this year). It was a 700 rem, muzzle brake, fiberglass stock, 2.5x8 Leupold. A little heavy for the perfect sheep gun but moose was on the schedule too. Great for grizzly country!
Well..... after I harvested my Stone sheep and moose a guy showed up in camp with a rifle that was WAY TOO HEAVY for a mountain hunt. Since I was welcome to stay for several EXTRA days at no cost I was invited to sheep hunt with them. I carried his rifle for him the whole time. It was way too heavy for sure. Both the hunter and his gun were not suited for the specific task at hand. He did not score even though the guide and I showed him several legal rams! Toward the end of his hunt he even pulled me aside and asked me to climb the hill and shoot a ram for him! NOT A CHANCE! What was he thinking? We really liked this guy but the guide and I were blown away by his request!
What's my point? I don't know. Maybe it's just a funny little story about a guy who was not ready for a sheep hunt!
Good luck with the Dall sheep hunt. I have a feeling you'll be ready!
Zeke
I was on a Stone sheep hunt in 2003 with my light-ish 300 win mag (which I gave to my daughter and she used it to harvest a 163" desert ram this year). It was a 700 rem, muzzle brake, fiberglass stock, 2.5x8 Leupold. A little heavy for the perfect sheep gun but moose was on the schedule too. Great for grizzly country!
Well..... after I harvested my Stone sheep and moose a guy showed up in camp with a rifle that was WAY TOO HEAVY for a mountain hunt. Since I was welcome to stay for several EXTRA days at no cost I was invited to sheep hunt with them. I carried his rifle for him the whole time. It was way too heavy for sure. Both the hunter and his gun were not suited for the specific task at hand. He did not score even though the guide and I showed him several legal rams! Toward the end of his hunt he even pulled me aside and asked me to climb the hill and shoot a ram for him! NOT A CHANCE! What was he thinking? We really liked this guy but the guide and I were blown away by his request!
What's my point? I don't know. Maybe it's just a funny little story about a guy who was not ready for a sheep hunt!
Good luck with the Dall sheep hunt. I have a feeling you'll be ready!
Zeke
cbeard
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Zeke-
You must be a saint to carry that guy's gun for him all that time. I don't mind letting the guides do a little more than me as far as carrying loads,etc. After all, they are young(I am 45),in better shape, and I tip well too.
BUT I wouldn't feel right about someone else carrying my rifle or pack. I'm sure you know what I'm talking about....
(I won't even get into the request for you to shoot the ram.That dude needs to re-evaluate why he is there in the first place.)
Congrats on you and especially your daughter's rams! I know that was a proud moment for Daddy.I have 2 girls (13 and 16) and they grew up hunting with me but are fast tending towards being more interested in "girly-girl" things and boys than slogging up and down hills with me.I am hoping to get them back as they grow older-God willing and the creek don't rise.....
You must be a saint to carry that guy's gun for him all that time. I don't mind letting the guides do a little more than me as far as carrying loads,etc. After all, they are young(I am 45),in better shape, and I tip well too.
BUT I wouldn't feel right about someone else carrying my rifle or pack. I'm sure you know what I'm talking about....
(I won't even get into the request for you to shoot the ram.That dude needs to re-evaluate why he is there in the first place.)
Congrats on you and especially your daughter's rams! I know that was a proud moment for Daddy.I have 2 girls (13 and 16) and they grew up hunting with me but are fast tending towards being more interested in "girly-girl" things and boys than slogging up and down hills with me.I am hoping to get them back as they grow older-God willing and the creek don't rise.....
oregonmuley
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LAST EDITED ON Nov-18-09 AT 11:32AM (MST)[p]>OK I'll play. Mine is a
>Nosler Custom 48 in .270WSM
>shooting Nosler Custom ammo with
>140 grain Accubonds.Topped with a
>Leupold ultralight 3-9X scope and
>Talley aluminum rings. Bare rifle
>weighs 6 1/4 lbs. Scope
>weighs 8 oz. Whole rig
>(full magazine,strap,everything) weighs 7 1/4
>lbs.
>
>Oh,and by the way it consistently
>prints 1/2 to 3/4" groups.
>
>
>You guys only think yours is
>perfect but mine really is.
>
>
>;-)
I've picked up the Nosler 48 a number if times because I really wanted to like it - but overall it just doesn't fit me that well. And for the amount of money they want for that rifle, which has some pretty decent parts - Pac-Nor barrel, Ok stock, decent action. Anyway, for that kind of coin I'd rather spend it on a Borden - his Basic Rifle can be had for about the same cost as the 48 and you would be getting 2x the rifle.
Or better yet, find a good donor action, pick up a McMillan Edge stock in your favorite pattern, put on a good barrel, find a a good gunsmith to screw it all together and you would have it for about the same price - but custom built to your liking.
Just a thought.
>Nosler Custom 48 in .270WSM
>shooting Nosler Custom ammo with
>140 grain Accubonds.Topped with a
>Leupold ultralight 3-9X scope and
>Talley aluminum rings. Bare rifle
>weighs 6 1/4 lbs. Scope
>weighs 8 oz. Whole rig
>(full magazine,strap,everything) weighs 7 1/4
>lbs.
>
>Oh,and by the way it consistently
>prints 1/2 to 3/4" groups.
>
>
>You guys only think yours is
>perfect but mine really is.
>
>
>;-)
I've picked up the Nosler 48 a number if times because I really wanted to like it - but overall it just doesn't fit me that well. And for the amount of money they want for that rifle, which has some pretty decent parts - Pac-Nor barrel, Ok stock, decent action. Anyway, for that kind of coin I'd rather spend it on a Borden - his Basic Rifle can be had for about the same cost as the 48 and you would be getting 2x the rifle.
Or better yet, find a good donor action, pick up a McMillan Edge stock in your favorite pattern, put on a good barrel, find a a good gunsmith to screw it all together and you would have it for about the same price - but custom built to your liking.
Just a thought.
cbeard
Very Active Member
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Good thoughts and valid for sure.Can't argue with the Bordens but if you add some extras (that the Nosler 48 already incorporates) to the Basic rifle package like textured stock, coated steel, etc. the price goes up quite a bit.Plus Borden doesn't guarantee accuracy on its Basic rifles.
Mainly though,I went with the Nosler for one of the reasons you chose not to- it "fit" me well while some others didn't.
Mainly though,I went with the Nosler for one of the reasons you chose not to- it "fit" me well while some others didn't.
