C
CHUCKER
Guest
I'm trying to decide between calibers for backpack trips for these two species. What do you think about a Kimber Montana 84M in 7mm-08 or .308? Will these be OK out to 400 yards?
M
martini
Guest
the 7mm-08 is a great choice,
littlebighorn
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 5,409
I don't know about catching a bullet...my reflexes are not that good anymore. However, if you are looking at a short round in a light rifle, you might look at the Winchester Short Mags.
I bought a 300WSM in a stainless Browning A-bolt for my Wyoming bighorn sheep hunt. It is, beyond measure, the most pleasant hunting rifle I have packed in my life, yet it easily reaches out to 400 yds and beyond.
I bought a 300WSM in a stainless Browning A-bolt for my Wyoming bighorn sheep hunt. It is, beyond measure, the most pleasant hunting rifle I have packed in my life, yet it easily reaches out to 400 yds and beyond.
I shot my mountain goat with a 100 grain .257 weatherby and it worked great. I had the confidence to shoot 400 yards but luckily didn't need to. I'm not sure what the foot pounds for that is either but I know it shoots really flat. Where are you hunting sheep and goat?
C
CHUCKER
Guest
LAST EDITED ON Apr-16-07 AT 04:49PM (MST)[p]Military snipers kill bad guys at 800 plus yards with their .308's for the last three decades. I think people get caught up in calibers to much. According to the ballistics in my reloading manual I can get .30-06 performance out of anything less than a 175 grain bullet.
The reason I don't want to jump up in size is the .308 and 7mm-08 weigh 5 lbs.2 ounces and the other calibers 6 lbs 3 ounces up to almost 7 pounds.
The reason I don't want to jump up in size is the .308 and 7mm-08 weigh 5 lbs.2 ounces and the other calibers 6 lbs 3 ounces up to almost 7 pounds.
250 yards max. You asked about 400 yards. In my humble opinion, ITS TO FAR FOR THOSE CALIBERS. The snipers are experts shooting at heads. I don't think you'll want to shoot your rams head. I'd go for the lb and take the shot with the other calibers mentioned. The other option being not shooting unless conditions are absolutely perfect and staying within a reasonable point blank range. Did I say 250???? An opinion only....
Califelkslayer
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 4,077
No expert by any standard and never drawn a sheep or goat tag but have hunted mulies above sheep in the Rubies. With that said, whats a pound? In that type of country, not only do you deal with distance but the wind blows more often than not. Faster, heavier bullet will drift less. My A-bolt in .338, 26" barrel is light enough to pack anywhere, heavy enough to be steady in a breeze and makes things die regardless of my shortcomings. To me conditioning would be everything if drawn for a goat/sheep tag and 1 lb wouldn't matter. IMHO
littlebighorn
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 5,409
Again, from one who has had a sheep tag (waited 30 years to get it and spent nearly $10K for the experience.) Why limit yourself? When a nice ram stepped out at 430 yds on my hunt, I did not hesitate to shoot because I knew my short mag was very capable of that distance, and the one lb was not an issue.
My first rifle was a 308 and I won't argue that it could get the job done. But, if you are buying a new gun for a specific type of hunt, why handicap yourself on long shots, with old technology? IMHO
PS.
My buddy is a sniper for a SWAT team and he packs a 300 ultramag when he goes huntin. Something about uping the odds when he is paying for the shot!!
My first rifle was a 308 and I won't argue that it could get the job done. But, if you are buying a new gun for a specific type of hunt, why handicap yourself on long shots, with old technology? IMHO
PS.
My buddy is a sniper for a SWAT team and he packs a 300 ultramag when he goes huntin. Something about uping the odds when he is paying for the shot!!
B
bighornbob
Guest
LAST EDITED ON Apr-17-07 AT 10:46AM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Apr-17-07 AT 10:45?AM (MST)
I live in BC where I hunt sheep every year and goats whenever I want to drive up north. Every die hard sheep hunter I personally know shoot larger calibers (270 is the minimum that a friend shoots). Everybody is in the 7mm and 300WM range. Like somebody said its always nice to have that little extra when needed.
You must also remmeber that sheep and goats are not the same. Goats soak up a lot of lead and I have personally watched them take a beating and keep going. Goats live in steep terrain and if they are not dead on the spot they will (and I would guarentee this) kick themselves off the nastiest cliff and cartwheel to a flat spot. If you are lucky you find both horns in the 200 pounds of hamburger. Also the steepness of shots limits your vision sometimes. I had a good friend shoot a goat from about 150 yards shooting up at a steep angle. He shot once with is 7mm and the goat dropped out of site. They thought done deal and were putting their packs on to hike up when they looked up. They could see a goat walking 100m above their goat. When they looked through the scope they could see the goat had a red blood stain in the front half. The goat kept climbing with them shooting to try and bring it down before it reached the top and crawled over. They figured they hit it at least one more time. The goat was never found as there was no way to get to the top. Goats are one tough animal to bring down so I would definately opt for something bigger for them.
BHB
I live in BC where I hunt sheep every year and goats whenever I want to drive up north. Every die hard sheep hunter I personally know shoot larger calibers (270 is the minimum that a friend shoots). Everybody is in the 7mm and 300WM range. Like somebody said its always nice to have that little extra when needed.
You must also remmeber that sheep and goats are not the same. Goats soak up a lot of lead and I have personally watched them take a beating and keep going. Goats live in steep terrain and if they are not dead on the spot they will (and I would guarentee this) kick themselves off the nastiest cliff and cartwheel to a flat spot. If you are lucky you find both horns in the 200 pounds of hamburger. Also the steepness of shots limits your vision sometimes. I had a good friend shoot a goat from about 150 yards shooting up at a steep angle. He shot once with is 7mm and the goat dropped out of site. They thought done deal and were putting their packs on to hike up when they looked up. They could see a goat walking 100m above their goat. When they looked through the scope they could see the goat had a red blood stain in the front half. The goat kept climbing with them shooting to try and bring it down before it reached the top and crawled over. They figured they hit it at least one more time. The goat was never found as there was no way to get to the top. Goats are one tough animal to bring down so I would definately opt for something bigger for them.
BHB
C
camuleycrazy
Guest
Great post and advice Littlebighorn. I'd carry an extra pound for a magnum also.
I don't doubt snipers use .308's but they probably have custom barrels, triggers, training, tactical scopes, different loads etc.
If you are hunting either species near cliffs, make sure you take the shoulder out. If you break the animal down you should have time for another shot before he's gone. You'll know if you broke the shoulder or not after the first shot.
If you are hunting either species near cliffs, make sure you take the shoulder out. If you break the animal down you should have time for another shot before he's gone. You'll know if you broke the shoulder or not after the first shot.
C
CHUCKER
Guest
LAST EDITED ON Apr-17-07 AT 05:02PM (MST)[p]I'm just thinkin' of saving weight. When I backpack 25 to 80 miles on a trip weight matters. When I go to measures like cutting the handle of my toothbrush in half and trimming the edges off my map a pound is a big deal. I guess I'll suck it up and go big.
M
maddglasser
Guest
Are you hunting for meat or are you hunting for a trophy? I choose hands down a 30 cal magnum at that range. NOTHING kills like a 30. 300 wsm or 300 mag of any kind will anchore your animal without a doubt at that range. I recommened it for desert sheep to my clients as well. Why worry if you have enough gun? Do the Elmer Keith and "ALWAYS bring enough gun"
Travis
www.southwesthuntingadventures.com
Travis
www.southwesthuntingadventures.com
fisrtcoueswas80inches
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 1,648
Bigpig nailed it 270wsm all the way!
Casey
Casey
mistertwister
Active Member
- Messages
- 107
I have recently hunted for a dall sheep in yukon and bighorn in wyoming and moose in Northeast. I used a browning Abolt 300wsm in titanium. With my scope it is a little under 7lbs. weight does matter even 1lb will matter in sheep and goat country climbing the mountains over a long period of time. Ive hunted for years with the standard Abolt in 300 win mag (8.5 lbs) and now that feels like a Buick on my shoulder when hiking long distances. weight matters!
You want a large caliber on those types of hunts not only to put your animal down quickly but also in most instances you are in Grizzly country and wouldn't want to face one with a pea shooter. Not to mention maybe taking an elk or moose etc on some type of hunts as an add on.
The reason I mentioned the moose hunt was not because I needed a lightweight gun on that hunt but because I saw what the 300wsm did to that animal. I broke him down severly with 1 shot at 200 yds. I could not believe the destruction that bullet (winchester accubond 180gr.) made to such a large animal. With different bullet types you can really take advantage of the 300wsm.
Now the Bad news,
It is obscene how this rifle can kick. You are forced to put a break on it to shoot properly. And must also now deal with the loudness of a break. Mine now feels like a 270 recoil.
Having said all of that the Abolt titanium in 300wsm is by far the best all around rifle that I have ever used. You forget that you are even carrying it while hiking.
You want a large caliber on those types of hunts not only to put your animal down quickly but also in most instances you are in Grizzly country and wouldn't want to face one with a pea shooter. Not to mention maybe taking an elk or moose etc on some type of hunts as an add on.
The reason I mentioned the moose hunt was not because I needed a lightweight gun on that hunt but because I saw what the 300wsm did to that animal. I broke him down severly with 1 shot at 200 yds. I could not believe the destruction that bullet (winchester accubond 180gr.) made to such a large animal. With different bullet types you can really take advantage of the 300wsm.
Now the Bad news,
It is obscene how this rifle can kick. You are forced to put a break on it to shoot properly. And must also now deal with the loudness of a break. Mine now feels like a 270 recoil.
Having said all of that the Abolt titanium in 300wsm is by far the best all around rifle that I have ever used. You forget that you are even carrying it while hiking.
mistertwister
Active Member
- Messages
- 107
http://www.monstermuleys.info/dcforum/user_files/462602831ba58a05
1st time downloading pictures. Not easy
1st time downloading pictures. Not easy
mistertwister
Active Member
- Messages
- 107
Zigga, here is my Moose I'll try to send you my sheep next.
W
wyoelk
Guest
You have got some excellent advise here Chucker. That 7mm-08 is a excelllent long range caliber, with the ability to hunt tougher animals than sheep like Elk etc. and yet use on Deer,Sheep. Not that Elk are that tough vs. Bear. Weight should make a huge difference in your decision,make sure you use a recoil reducer of some kind. With the lighter weight the recoil will be worse and effect your shooting. Then shoot a lot and proper bullet placement will put you out there a long ways.
Good Luck,we love seeing pictures here.
Good Luck,we love seeing pictures here.
C
CHUCKER
Guest
Thanks WYOELK
Cozmo8
Active Member
- Messages
- 641
Obviously all of the .30 calibers are good choices. It is a trade off of weight, shooting ability, and ballistics. Make sure you know the rifle well and have had good experiences with it. I bought my wife a .240 Weatherby because it had the energy of a Win .270 but shot a lot flatter. She had a bad experience so she quit hunting. I have taken 3 antelope, 5 mule deer, and two sheep with it. The sheep were taken at 225 and 340 yards respectively. The bullet drops a mere 8 inches at 400 yards and there is negligeble kick. If I can't get closer than that I refuse to shoot. It weighs 6.5 lbs with scope, sling, and full of bullets.
Don't have any experience with goats but have heard they eat up the lead. Bottom line it is a personal choice.
Don't have any experience with goats but have heard they eat up the lead. Bottom line it is a personal choice.
>I'm pretty sure at 400 yards
>you could catch the bullet
>with your bare hands.
>I wouldn't shoot beyond 250
>with these calibers. You
>need so many foot pounds
>at impact to bring the
>animal down. Somebody should
>have stats on these calibers
>for you.
...what?! Both a .308 and his necked down brother in .284 will shoot right THROUGH a sheep or goat with the right bullet and load at that range.
>you could catch the bullet
>with your bare hands.
>I wouldn't shoot beyond 250
>with these calibers. You
>need so many foot pounds
>at impact to bring the
>animal down. Somebody should
>have stats on these calibers
>for you.
...what?! Both a .308 and his necked down brother in .284 will shoot right THROUGH a sheep or goat with the right bullet and load at that range.
W
wadsworth
Guest
I drew a NV goat tag in 2005 and ended up getting a nice goat (51 B & C). I used a .270 T3 but I wish I had had a lot more. If I ever draw another goat tag I will use my .338 UM. It took 3 shots to the front shoulder to put him down, all within a coffee cup diameter. The bullets were 140 gr IB. Goats often take a "death plunge" if they are not anchored quickly. This can cause horns to break and sometimes animal recovery can be difficult or even impossible. It sucks to carry a 9 pound gun versus a 6.75 pound gun but when you may only get one goat tag in a lifetime it is probably best in my opinion to go with some pretty serious power. Otherwise you had better have enough disipline to pass up some shots where goats are on ledges, etc.
--DHE
--DHE
W
Warren
Guest
I really enjoyed my 257 Wby mag ultralight on my California Bighorn hunt in Idaho. It would not bother me to take it on a goat hunt if large bears would not be encountered. The recoil is low and it shoots flat!
C
CHUCKER
Guest
LAST EDITED ON Apr-22-07 AT 08:41PM (MST)[p]After much thought I think I decided on a Remington Alaskan Ti in .30-06 because it is still relatively light, common ammunition, moderate recoil, and can humanely take anything in North America and has. The .308 would have been lighter but if I'm going to spend that much on a rifle I want something a little more versatile. I was able to hit a golf ball a 400 yards with my .308 tactical rifle today. I think .308 would make a fine sheep gun. Thanks for all your help.
DonVathome
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 1,730
While everyone is talking what do you think about a .280 for the same (goat and sheep)? I have a .280 I plan to use if drawn. I would like to shoot out to 300. Living in Ohio and never shooting past 200 (and very very rarely past 100) I would not feel comfortable out to 400 simply because I have little experiance. Rifle are illegal here to hunt with and finding a range that extends beyond 200 nearly impossible.
W
wadsworth
Guest
Don,
the 280 is a very good blend of speed and power. It will be great out to 300 yards if you are shooting 2" groups or less at 100. If you can shrink those groups down it will also be good to longer distances, but only if you feel confident taking those kinds of shots. It is fun to talk about all these caliber & bullet choices but I think the most important thing is confidence in your particular rig and your abilities to use it.
--DHE
the 280 is a very good blend of speed and power. It will be great out to 300 yards if you are shooting 2" groups or less at 100. If you can shrink those groups down it will also be good to longer distances, but only if you feel confident taking those kinds of shots. It is fun to talk about all these caliber & bullet choices but I think the most important thing is confidence in your particular rig and your abilities to use it.
--DHE
W
Warren
Guest
Don,
You need to be able to shoot to 400 yards or you will be very sorry one day. There are just a lot of times when you run out of cover and need to make a shot or pass. Using packs or sticks, you can sometimes get very steady.
You need to be able to shoot to 400 yards or you will be very sorry one day. There are just a lot of times when you run out of cover and need to make a shot or pass. Using packs or sticks, you can sometimes get very steady.
DonVathome
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 1,730
I will do my best but even practice at a range is not like in the field, after a lifetime of not shooting past 100 it will be tough to ever feel comfortable out that far - but I will try. Also after a lifetime of bowhunting, and occasionaly shotgun & muzzleloader out to 100 yards, I am used to letting game go by at any range over 150, so it will be ok.
I never shoot unless I am 100% sure I am putting one in the boiler room, and I just would not feel that way at 400 yards (but might). I use shooting sticks and again not having any ranges around past 200 make it tough. I can find longer ranges but to practice there will take a major effort, like an all day affair, so I may not be able to do it enough to really get used to it.
I never shoot unless I am 100% sure I am putting one in the boiler room, and I just would not feel that way at 400 yards (but might). I use shooting sticks and again not having any ranges around past 200 make it tough. I can find longer ranges but to practice there will take a major effort, like an all day affair, so I may not be able to do it enough to really get used to it.
Califelkslayer
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 4,077
All of this talk about guns, calibers, shaving ounces, etc is great. The various opinions are interesting, even the ones I disagree with. I think the 2 most important things for sucess are:
1) shooting, shooting and shooting some more.
2) Conditioning.
The best shot in the world is no good if you can't get to the animals and the best conditioned hunter will eat tag soup if he can't hit what he shoots at.
1) shooting, shooting and shooting some more.
2) Conditioning.
The best shot in the world is no good if you can't get to the animals and the best conditioned hunter will eat tag soup if he can't hit what he shoots at.
Bambistew
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 1,963
LAST EDITED ON Apr-27-07 AT 09:00AM (MST)[p]
These catridge questions always crack me up... Shoot what you're confidant with and call it good. Weather its a 257 or a 375H&H. With the new bullets made today there is little diffrence in killing power between any of them.
If I draw a sheep or goat tag this year or any year, I have no doubt what rifle will be going along for the trip. SS M700 BDL in 7RM, get me inside reasonable shooting distances and it will be dead. I have a few light weight rifles but don't have near the track record nor confidance in them. With a once in a life time hunt, I have no time to worry about a new rifle and if it will perform! I have over 40+ animals with that rifle and I'm sure many more will die at its behest.
These catridge questions always crack me up... Shoot what you're confidant with and call it good. Weather its a 257 or a 375H&H. With the new bullets made today there is little diffrence in killing power between any of them.
If I draw a sheep or goat tag this year or any year, I have no doubt what rifle will be going along for the trip. SS M700 BDL in 7RM, get me inside reasonable shooting distances and it will be dead. I have a few light weight rifles but don't have near the track record nor confidance in them. With a once in a life time hunt, I have no time to worry about a new rifle and if it will perform! I have over 40+ animals with that rifle and I'm sure many more will die at its behest.
