Sfw question

[Horsecorn]

Here we go again. I have a question for the SFW board. Tell me why the money that MR. Bingham donated to SFW went to buy property in Canada. The land they bought is called Arctic Red. I thought that SFW was set up to enhance big game in Utah. They should have used that money for that purpose. What and the he-l does that property have to do with big game enhancment for utah. why does the SFW top guns get to hunt there on all of the donated money that we hunters have put into SFW. Mr Bingham donated around 4,000,000 to help Utah wildlife. Please tell me why that money went to buy property in Canada. I am done with SFW. I guess the money I spent to help SFW. Went to them guys so they can go on personal hunt on my dollar. Please explain to me why this happened. One more other question I have is if SFW closes there doors who gets that land they bought. I can't stand all of these big money hunts that SFW got started in the state so the big money boys can hunt in the state every year and the rest of us poor bast--ds have to wait a life time to draw. I think all of the animals are for everyone in the state , not just for the rich. Please explain to me why.

 

[hornkiller]

Thay have been two face since the get go.

Don peay needs to take a long walk in the desert and never look back!

 

[littlejoe]

Be informed. Go to the source and ask them. This is old news. Old news. Every organization, MDF, RMEF, etc all have issues that I don't like but I support each and every one of them hoping they will do some good.

 

[Horsecorn]

I have gone to the source and all I get is BS. You mean to tell me that if they all do it then that makes it ok, not in my book.

 

[Muley_73]

blah blah blah blah blah. BTW Ive never been a member of the SFW.

 

[BrowningRage]

I will never support SFW so long as these types of practices are going on. At least this one people know about... Considering all the secrecy, I'm sure there is plenty more of this going on out there...

"Therefore, wo be unto him that is at ease in Zion!" 2 Ne. 28: 24

 

[tallbuck1]

Horsecorn: Who did you go to as the "Source" that you got only BS?

littlejoe: I couldn't agree more! Every Org has it good and bads!

SFW, MDF, RMEF, DU, and many more are run by HUMANS! They operate by the men and women who stand up and join the membership and voice there opinion. Heaven knows that I don't support everything SFW does! If I don't stand up and support them (by money or time or taking a kid hunting, or supporting them on going to RAC's and the like) then the ANTI's will win!!! The WOLVES, and ANTI GUN people will win and take it all away from me and for my children!!

Stop whining about the problem and become part of the solution!!!

Tallbuck1

 

[wstrntines]

LAST EDITED ON Nov-30-11 AT 09:21AM (MST)[p]Not a big fan of them or the tree huggers. So im kinda stuck in the middle of the road.

 

[Gator]

Wow
This is the first time I have heard it, I guess you could ask the canadiens what the hell is going on ,They might be able to tell you more, I'm sure a few locals up there can shed some light on this land deal.

"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
>[Font][Font color = "green"]Life member of
>the MM green signature club.[font/]

 

[littlejoe]

The Bingham's knew exactly where there donation was going and the reason behind it. No reason to write the details on here as you either support them or you don't.

Whether you support SFW or not, support some group. Be involved. Don't just be an air chair quarterback like the majority of people out there.

 

[huntin50]

horsecorn,

I happened to be to the meeting when Mr. Bingham gave what he gave to SFW. Mr. Bingham did things his way, when he presented SFW with rights to hunt and donated about 3 million to SFW. SFW has recieved many donations from business men who studied the issues and found out which group were getting results for the future of hunting and wildlife. With your post your calling Mr. Bingham stupid. Like he didn't know what he was doing. He is a very smart and generous man.

I'm personally grateful for people who are able to open their wallets and donate to help out. I don't have all the facts. I know SFW have used some hunts to help our service men have hunts.

I don't agree with all that SFW of other groups do. They have done alot for hunting, habitat, and wildlife over the years.

I think you only have half of the puzzle pieces that your looking at.

 

[SMELLYBUCK]

Huntin50,

Horsecorn brought up a great question. If you were at the meeting can you answer it? I didn't notice him calling anyone stupid either. I could have missed it as I read fast.

SFW has done some habitat improvement and the herd still suffers. This doesn't make up for all the bad they have done. They have hijacked the DWR. No special interest group should have so much power!!! Even if they fixed the herd, which they haven't come close to doing, they shouldn't own a governement agency.

No other group has done more to prevent future hunting. They are more bad then good. Stop giving them a pass. They are a wolf in sheeps clothing.

 

[tallbuck1]

SMELLYBUCK, Please provide a list of "ALL" the bad that they have done as you claim, please make this factual and NOT your personal opinion!


Tallbuck1

 

[littlejoe]

What I find interesting is the amount of SFW bashing very little bashing of other groups. Usually the group that is getting bashed the most is the one doing the most. I support RMEF and MDF and SCI and I have a huge personality conflict with the president of one of the organizations and have every reason in the world to not support them but I still do becuase I hope they can do some good.

I am thankful that SCI and SFW are very vocal. I don't agree with everything but they are vocal and at the forefront.

I seldom hear anything from RMEF or MDF other than the magazine I get in the mail that I don't like.

 

[woodruffhunter]

"SFW has done some habitat improvement and the herd still suffers. This doesn't make up for all the bad they have done. They have hijacked the DWR. No special interest group should have so much power!!! Even if they fixed the herd, which they haven't come close to doing, they shouldn't own a governement agency"

Why are you giving SFW such a hard time over "hijacking the DWR"? Even looking at your complaint from a neutral standpoint, wouldn't you think that the DWR would ultimately be to blame?

If I hire/give approval for someone to manage or do a job for me, do you think that when he screws up, my customer will go to him? No, they will go to me, the person who hired him.

There are far more complaints about SFW than there are about the DWR. I cannot understand this. The DWR is the organization who ultimately should make the decisions.... They are ultimately responsible for the final decision in herd management!

Now, in your defense, I can see how SFW could and can be irritating at times. I'll admit, I am a member but like a few others on here, I get annoyed by some of the things they do. However, I have three choices: Quit supporting them and do nothing, start my own Org., or realize that they do some good and try and make suggestions... For now I will stick with the latter.

To each their own I guess...

 

[tailchasers]

I do not and will not participate in any sort of organization such as SFW, DU, Pheasants Forever, RMEF, or the such. To much special interest and frivalous spending on private land owner improvements then of which I will likely never see any benefit from. I'll pick on RMEF here for a moment. They contend they have spent millions on elk habitat improvements and on miliion sof acres but most of the improvements have been made on private lands which are not accessable to public hunters even though your dollars are being spent on "Joe Schmoshes" Pvt ranch. How much benefit will we actually see from this? Show me an organization whose dollars go to 100% public accessable land improvements and I'll rethink the topic. Until then, I'll keep my money and hand it over to the applicable states I will be applying too for a tag and leave it at that.

"Courage is being scared to death but saddling
up anyway."

 

[hornkiller]

" No reason to write the details on here as you either support them or you don't."


Little joe are you part of sfw behind the lines?

Why cant we know the details of an orginization thats
butt ####### all the little guys that love to hunt?


SFW is the joke!!!!

 

[littlejoe]

No I am not part of SFW behind the lines. I helped them for many years with the local banquet and then my work situation changed and I was not able to help anymore. Yes, I do still attend the local banquet and the SLC expo.

You can know why, just go to the source. Has anyone that has a gripe contacted Ryan, Troy, Don or Byron to ask them directly about this. I am willing to bet no, instead they just get on here and are uninformed and ##### and moan and groan about SFW, Mossback and the list goes on.

I have talked with them at times and given them my two cents. Does it matter probably not, do I still support them and everyone else, absolutely.

hornkiller, since they are a joke, who do you support?

 

[smitty]

Here's an easy solution. If you don't like what the SFW does with your donation, go start your own wildlife organization.

The U.S. government spends your "donations" on things that are detrimental to all of us, but no-one gets on here and complains about that.

Like has been said before, if you want to help out, join some group, but do something. My dad, complains more than anyone I know about every topic under the sun. From the deer herd, to wolves, to whatever.... and he claims he has the answers to all of it. Problem is he's not a member of any group, he's not in the dedicated hunter program, hasn't bought a wolf tag, won't volunteer to help anywhere. But boy can he b!tch about it!

So long story short, if you don't like what a group is doing, or think you can do a better job, be my guest and go ahead and try. But by all means do something, sitting at your computer and complaining about it isn't going to help.

And, yes I do help with the local SFW group. I'm in the dedicated hunter program. I help feed the millville elk herd in the winter. I bought 2 wolf tags and killed a wolf, in an area that I will never even deer or elk hunt in. It ain't much, but if everyone did something, it would add up in a hurry.

That's my 2 cents anyways.

 

[Horsecorn]

I will tell you what. I will start a new organization. Send me your money and I will put some of your money toward wildlife enhancement and the rest of the money will go toward me buying property for myself. That sounds good to me. I will help wildlife and also pad my own pocket. What do you say about that. I never said mr. Bingham was stupid, he is a very smart man.

 

[Horsecorn]

One other thing I will do. I will send a return soldier on a few hunts and that will make it all right. Pat me on the back. I will also fight the wolfs from coming to Utah, so please send me your money and I will help.

 

[littlejoe]

Horsecorn, put your money where your mouth is. Get it going and when you have a plan of attack you can contact me. You better have some projects ready, meeting scheduled, and a plan and then let's chat. Good luck with that. My bet is instead you will sit in the sidelines and whine about SFW, Mossback and the Huntin Fool.

 

[Horsecorn]

Please tell me that buying land in Canada will help Utah wildlife. Convince me and I will shut up.

 

[smitty]

I don't know the answer, but here's a thought. Maybe they bought some land to run hunts on as an investment, and use the money to further help wildlife in the west. SFW isn't only in Utah.

It makes sense to me for an organization to use their funds in a way that grows money. Instead of spending $4 million on a project, why not spend $4 million on buying an asset that can produce a recurring revenue, monthly or yearly, that I can then in turn use to assist projects for years?

Kinda like buying a rental home, you pay $100k up front, rent it out, rent comes in every month for as long as you own the property, plus you still have $100k wrapped up in equity. Sounds like a smart idea to me.

 

[littlejoe]

Go ahead and avoid my statement and questions from above. I figured you would.

Smitty, thanks to you and people like you that care and are willing to help and donate.

 

[hornkiller]

I support the people that shoot wolf's in the guts and keep driving! They want no money or fame they just want there animals to survive.

The dedicated hunter program is a bunch of ##### they need X amount of hours to hunt all 3 hunts right?
Is delivering procs to walmart and getting wrote down for ALL the hours they need helping wildlife? hell no! That is just one of the things they have them do that is a joke and doing nothing to help wildlife.

Dont get me wrong i know some guys that have worked there guts out on the dedicated but more than half dont do the full time!!!!


Watch at the 2012 expo one S.F.W. head will draw another tag!

He already has around 6 tags from the expo. Tell me who is that ###### lucky and not neck deep in the whole sfw lie?

 

[littlejoe]

Hornkiller, I bet you would not walk away from an expo tag if your name was drawn! I am sure it was a conspiracy that you drew anyway if you ever do. It must be a conspiracy for all 200 of them that draw.

I know a gentleman that has drawn four tags in two or three years and is not a member of any organization. He must have paid someone off along the way as well.

Smitty, well stated.

 

[Reactor]

Here is what SFW has done wrong... And I have been told by Bryon that when it came down to decision time the board members rolled 6's on the issues but somehow they passed..... Which makes it so I am ANTI-SFW.

#1 SFW is directly responsible for the 3/5 day deer hunt in 2010 (RESTRICTIONS to hunters)

#2SFW is directly responsible for the cut in tag allocations for 2011 (RESTRICTIONS)

#3 SFW is directly responsible for the perscribed cut of 15,000 tags in 2012 (MAJOR RESTRICTIONS)

They have accomplished what PETA never could have accomplished and they did so on the sportsmans dime... Sure a lot of high dollar hunters got their names in the record books because of them but the entire future of hunting has taken a massive blow. Consider my finger pointed... Whether it came down to 6's or not they lost a lot of board members over the poor decisions and no sportsmans group should ever ask for more restrictions on hunters.

I won't deny that they have done some good, but I and every single other general season hunter had to miss out on some days afield because of a greedy decision made by uneducated hunters with the intention of doing good. EPIC FAIL!!!

 

[littlejoe]

I am glad that you were specific and to the point. I guess I am in the minority because I have zero issue with any of your issues above. I am willing to try anything on the deer herd because what has happened for the last 20+ years has not worked. I grew up deer hunting in Utah and I hope that the turkeys continue to thrive so my son has something to hunt. The deer herd in No. Utah is pathetic and I am sure that is SFW fault as well.

 

[hornkiller]

joe you really are blind!

 

[smitty]

hornkiller, what's your solution. you seem to have alot of energy to complain, maybe use some of that to come up with some ideas yourself. B!tching don't get you anywhere.

I don't like the idea that tags are being cut either. I really don't like the fact that the deer herd isn't anything like it was in the 60's either. I'd give my left nut and half my weiner to be able to hunt the kind of deer they had back then. Seems like noone has the magical answer that will bring the deer back, but I know one things for sure, b!tching about it on your home computer doesn't help. So post up some of your ideas and a plan to get them accomplished and we'll see how it goes.

 

[dkpeay]

Marc Bingham grew up poor as heck in Vernal Utah. He got his degree in wildlife mangement at utah state on a track scholarship - working 20 hours a week as well to survive.

He worked for the USFWS and the BLM. He couldn't stand teh bueracracy. so he left to start his own business.

he started a business in Price, Utah, and 35 years later, it was an international business. He lived humbly for those 35 years, plowing it all into his buisness. He borrowed money to make payroll, he risked everything he had for lots of years.

he sold his business for $225 Million. Part of that was his Canadian Business unit.

He donated $15 Million to Utah STate to build the Vernal Campus. He donated $1 Million to UVU for scholarships.

Why ? becasue education is the key that changed his life, and he wants to help rural kids have a chance to get ahead in life.

He is a member of all the groups, but donated it to SFW because he beleives SFW gets the most done to grow more elk, deer, moose, sheep, bison, turkey, etc.

Here are the parameters of ARRO:

1. Provide quality hunting experiences in a pristing place in the world. Keep the place pristing and world class.

2, Generate annual working income for SFW's conservation mission, like helping to restore 750,000 acres of habitat, help the DWR transplant new herds of elk, bison, bighorn, moose, goats, antelope and turkeys. Keep wolves from destroying the west, etc.

3. Expand SFW membership accross North America

4. Provide dream hunts to hunters who might not be able to afford them - go to www.fullcurl.org click on the winners, and see a few of them, and read Rick Ellisons story at the bottom. Over time, hundreds of hunters will win their dream hunts. If you want your shot at a dream hunt, come to the Full Curl meeting at the expo, or Utah FNAWS this weekend.

5. Help keep the Expo vibrant and be an imporatnt part of Western US conservation issues

6. Provide jobs for young Canadians, guiding, etc.

It has worked well, over time, it will do lots more. Marc is considering helping SFW acquire more assets to produce results above.

If he is a smart guy, worked in wildlife mangement, loves wildlife and hunting for the working man, wants to see teh working man achieve their dreams, do you think he would donate the money if he didn't believe it would be put to good use, AND provide benefits to his desire, helping the working man have his dream to ?

Bingham could have bought lots of tags with that money. He went to Arcitc Red with two friends and me. I shot nothing - didn't ahve a tag. Marc Shot nothing.

all he left was this on a cabin : Keep this place Great - forever. Marc Bingham.

The reality is i asked Marc for $1 Million to match another donation, and he said, "Don, i have watched the SFW team and what they have done on a shoestring for 20 years. I want to do something more, and here is what i think you should go do."

Not all guys with money are totally self serving. they donate so that the working man gets their big buck, bull, or ram to.

don peay

 

[Reactor]

littlejoe,
I am glad you can see my point...Radical management on a whim is never going to work...

The biologists are the real experts and they try to do everything that the sporstman ask them to do, but when SFW steps in and tries to fill their shoes and tells them what has to go down in the WB meetings and the RAC's we encounter some pretty crazy ideas... Like shutting the general season hunts down for 3 years....

 

[dkpeay]

PS. not a dime of SFW members money has gone to ARRO.

last week, a LAnd manager told me one of his friends from Colledge is working in Idaho, he was complaning that he only had $2,000 to do projects on public land.

this guys said, "i have $325,000 almost ever year, we restore almost 10,000 acres of public land each year in my area, and as public agencies we are spending tens of millions for habitat each year."

his friend said, "where is the money coming from ?"

answer, "SFW".

REsponse, well we hate SFW.

Cut your nose of to spite your face i guess. I guess some people don't want solutions, or attempts to find answers, it is just easier to complain.

 

[RELH]

First off, I do not live in Utah. I am not and never have been a member of SFW and if one of their board members would walk up to me I would not recognize them from Adam.
As a out of state hunter, I have grown tired of seeing these pissing contests between haters of SFW and supporters.
In the future if a hater of SFW comes on board with another belly ache and fails to give concrete facts that can be verified. Or fails to give a name of the person who he contacted to resolve his complaint. All of us should just ignore his complaint and let his post die in limbo. Maybe then they will get the hint to back up their complaints with facts and metholds they tried to resolve the problem, or they can take a hike and go complain in the Utah forum.

RELH

 

[Horsecorn]

Thanks for the response Don.

 

[SMELLYBUCK]

Tall,

SFW has hijacked the DWR, or at least the wildlife board. That is fact. There are a lot of biologists in the division who beleive there is a bigger problem with the herd than tags. SFW said cut tags & make more units. This is bad when a special interest group has so much power that a government agency can no longer act for itself.

I ask you what measurable good have they accomplished? Have general tags increased because of all their habitat expenditures? If they were doing it right we would have increased tags at some point. They push to cut public tags, they take far more opportunities than they give, and they thow a habitat bone that doesn't make a meaningful difference. They might give some poor guy a premium hunt. This is more to take the pressure off because of all the tags they have yanked from the system.

Wood,

I wouldn't blame the DWR entirely, but yes you can blame them some. I also blame those who support SFW, those who can't see an organization who has decreased opportunity overall.

I think this ultimately should be discussed with the governor as I don't think the division can divorce themselves at this point.

 

[SMELLYBUCK]

RELH,

How do you deal with special interest groups in your state who have so much control over a department that special interests are promoted at the expense of the general public?

Call us complainers, but its not a fun situtation. Concerns have been expressed to the proper channels. Unfortunately the wildlife board cannot be voted out.

 

[cache]

Horsecorn totally understand your additude towards these guys.
In my opion what happened last year with the heavily influenced wildlife boards decision to cut tags and adopt opion 2 against our bioligists recommendation was nothing more than a sucker punch which alot of us will never forget.Our dwr knew that cutting tags would do nothing to further help our deer herd.They have years of schooling, they have all the data to back it up from past studies.What really gets my goat is that these educated individuals (the bioligists) spend their whole careers studing these types of scenarios and have for decades make a recommendation to go with option 1 then some higher then god group starts throwing their weight around and basicaly tells them they don't know what they are talking about and uses their monetary influence to tell the wildlife board to vote against our own bioligists! The Wildlife Board makes all and every decsion that has to due with Utah hunting not the DWR. They are simply used as a tool to implament what the wildlife board wants and if they don't they will find somebody else who will.To point your finger at the DWR is pointing it at the laborer not the boss.
The SFW knows how to play their cards in the publics eye. From afar it looks great but once you start to get into the real motives behind everything selfish antict these guys come up with it makes me want to puke.MONEY is the number one with these guys and they don't give a damn how many average working class hunters they have to step on to get to their goal.SFW sure wants to take credit for everthing and then some, So on the same hand they sure as hell should expect some push back from us who were stepped on along the way.

 

[dkpeay]

Hcorn

Did I answer your questions ?

Did u read the Rick Ellison in his own words ? Your thoughts on Arctic Red now with some facts?

 

[BrowningRage]

I don't understand anyone that can come on here and clearly state that they support an organization that they don't fully agree with...??? "Hey, I don't like this or that, but here's my money anyway, sir."

I would never support a group I did not fully agree with. The mentality that we need to get behind someone simply for the sake of getting behind them, because they will "hopefully" do some good is ludicrous...

"Therefore, wo be unto him that is at ease in Zion!" 2 Ne. 28: 24

 

[littlejoe]

hornkiller, I am blind because I don't agree with you? Give me a break. I will always take quality over quantity hands down every time.

browning, I don't agree with everything they do nor do I agree with everything that MDF or RMEF does but I support them all becuase I believe they do more good than bad and at least they are trying to do something rather than 90% of the world that gripes and whines and posts anonymously on the internet when they don't get there way.

 

[Horsecorn]

You answered my question. Know I will shut up.

 

[Horsecorn]

Sorry it's not know it is now. But I do have one other thing. If SFW closes it's doors. Who does that land and other lands they own go to. The board members or who.

 

[dkpeay]

Horsecorn,

did you read the Ellison Story ?

My goal is leave SFW with a $100 Million plus Trust Fund. Each year there will be lots of money from interest or investment income, so sportsmen will always have a voice, can fund habitat projects, transplant new herds, take on teh anti hunters, do predator control, and keep a few talented, smart and ambitious people work there to coordinate all the efforts.

This goal is shared by the SFW Board, and donors like Mr. Bingham, Mower, Creamer, and others.

By Law, SFW is a Non Profit, which means no individucal person can gain materially from corporate assets, or sales of assets. The organization can pay reasonable salaries and fees to run the business. It is not what the critics say, a gold mine for the workers of SFW.


If SFW went away - which we are working to make sure it doesn't so sporstmen can always have a VOICE - the assets would be sold and donated to another charity, or state entity.

SFW owns about 3,000 acres of land in Utah, it is mostly winter range, a place for deer and elk to live in the winter instead of houses wall to wall.

not many deer or elk there during the hunting seasons. However, they are open to the public for hunting during the seasons, even members of teh public who are NOT members of SFW. SFW closes them to public access from Dec. 15 to March 15 so teh critters can hunker down and try and survive the winters. If you have a lion tag, you can hunt accross the land.

sounds like a bad organization, right ?

Those critters survive the winter on our land, then everyone can hunt them on public lands at higher elevations in teh fall.

i wished a sportsmen group had bought millions of acres back in the 60s and 70s when land was cheap. we are doing our best, join us and help us do more

Don

 

[Horsecorn]

Thanks Don. Sounds like you are trying your best.

 

[slickrock]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-02-11 AT 08:43PM (MST)[p]

Never mind! Has nothing to do with a serious issue.

Thought D13er would speak up.

Slick

"The Road goes on forever & the Party never Ends"

 

[dkpeay]

Horesecorn,

you sound like a pretty good guy that loves to hunt.

i will cover your Full Curl Society membership for 2012 - $40, and come and join us at the Social where 11 total sheep hunts will be given away in drawings. Sat. Feb. 11 noon to 2 pm. at the Expo.

offer stands for the next four MM folks who want to come and email me. [email protected]. the money is my personal money, not that it should matter, but i don't want anyway to make allegations about it coming from any where else.

Every year, i buy about $500 worth of tickets for some good guys - two of them have won, and had the hunt of their lives.


email me if you are interested to come, and join more than 1,000 fellow sportsmen who dream one day to hunt sheep, with those dreams made possible by some guys like Mr. Bingham who want to share the wealth and see otehr sportsmen live their dreams as well

Don Peay

 

[Daxter]

Awesome offer Don. Pretty generous, I hope some deserving guys take you up on it. Wouldn't it be great if Horsecorn won a sheep hunt?

Dax

There is no such thing as a sure thing in trophy mule deer hunting.

 

[littlejoe]

Don, nice offer. Good on you.

I have attended the Expo every year but not been able to attend the Furl Curl events yet. I plan on it this year.

 

[30plus]

Here are a few things I know SFW has done in Utah

Game fencing on I-15, highway-6 Sp. Fork canyon and many others.
The game crossings just put in on H-6, without political pressure behind the scenes from SFW UDOT would not have spent the money on these and many more planned for the future.

The more than 500,000 acres of habitat work done in the last 5 years alone (you can find the details from the DWR)without SFW maybe 5,000 would be done. You could have raised all the money in the world but without polital pressure from SFW the BLM and Forest Service would not have approved.

Having wildlife services target coyotes in wildlife wintering, fawning, and calving areas. up until a few years ago this was against policy, they could only target livestock areas.

Getting money from the general tax fund for coyote control and keeping it This alone is worth the expo tags.

Harvest objective and split seasons cougar units.

Sheep herds started on the Newfoundlands, Stansburies, Lake Canyon, Nebo, Timp, Provo peak

Buffaloe to the Book Cliffs this herd will be hunted sooner than you think.

The Henry Mtn L.E. unit, Book Cliffs and Vernon
The Management hunt on the Henries and Pauns. without these there would be two to three times the L.E. tags and they would be little better than the BC, Vernon and San Juan. Its about the buck doe ratios in the plan on these units

Spring bear hunting

Numerous water/guzzler projects throughout the state(look these up thru DWR)

Our hands would be tied on wolves here in Utah but the states Wolf plan excepted by the Feds pretty much says if wolves show up and eat any animals not at herd objective they have to go. It's still a battle but much better than the animal rights would have givin us.
The Bachus/Tester/Simpson law that is allowing idaho and montana to hunt wolves this year was never in the cards until SFW and Big Game Forever started getting traction across the country with wolf delisting by congress. This law was an end around to thwart a larger delisting in the west and midwest.

Do you know what Proposition five is and what it guarantees for the future of hunting in Utah?

Yes our deer herd is circling the drain do you honestly believe we could continue to hunt deer the same as we have and expect a different result? I have been to most all the meetings and met with most of the bioligists the state has and they have more questions then they have answers. I do know if I performed at my job as the DWR has performed on deer I would be looking for a new job.

I do know in 2010 there was over $500,000 in revenue from turkey in Utah (overthe counter, draw, and conservation tag sales) in 2011 closer to $250,000. Why? hunters realized in 2010 that turkeys had suffered massive winterkills so they didnt want to hunt in 2011. The DWR has a no feed policy they could have invested $20-$40,000 and had a continued revenue maybe even grown it we've fed before its easy and it works. Thats a lot of oppurtunity lost.

I wonder had all the habitat work not been done, highways not fenced, 5 day seasons not been used, coyote control not put in place, no increased cougar tags, no cutting over the counter deer tags, Where would the herd be today?

I guess we should have left the Wasatch Manti Fishlake and others at 4 year old age objectives for bulls so we could have a 1000+ more tags on these units. The division had over 700 tags for the Wasatch alone last year and I objected in a meeting before the RAC that that was an increase over the max allowed in one year so it was cut down to the 500+ that they issued last year so you can blame me if you didn't get a wasatch elk tag last year.

Maybe you do not know but according to the BLM and Forest service there is feed for over 200,000 more deer and elk in utah because of the habitat restoration work already done. But because of politics with grazers the BLM, Forest Service, DWR, and counties we can't increase any elk herds now.

You can cry all you want about SFW but we have done alot more than any other group or groups to insure that your kids and mine will have a hunting future in Utah. I am proud of what I have helped get done. What is really amazing to me is how many guys get on here and beat their chests, cry about SFW the deer hunt, elk hunt and then when the oppurtunity to make a difference shows itself they don't.

 

[Muley_73]

Great post. Not that the haters will acknowledge facts!!!!!

 

[Horsecorn]

Thanks for the offer Don. I will pass on the offer though. Give it to someone who needs it worse than me.

 

[Reactor]

Hmmmm? Something is not quite adding up here?.When the Grinch Stole Christmas and realized that his heart needed to grow he ran back into Whoville returning all the gifts back to all of the villagers?

Habitat management + predator control + fencelines + Guzzlers (Should) = More tags and opportunity for the public?. Somehow it has the opposite affect.

Some would argue that killing less deer would equal more deer, but that is not the case because we are harvesting bucks. The social policies and agendas put into place in the last couple of years have been on a whim and PERMANENTLY affected fawn recruitment and hunter recruitment alike. Historically Utah?s herd thrived and was on the increase when buck to doe ratios have been lower. My argument is that a lot of completely irrelevant policies and regulations have been put into place for the detriment of the herd.

What does the ?F? in SFW stand for? Have they done any projects for fish?

Thanks for the service projects and the habitat enhancements, but please back off when it comes to fly by night game management in Utah? Monstermuleys members are really starting to catch wind of the SFW drift and it is a great relief to know that some ears are starting to perk up.

 

[dkpeay]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-06-11 AT 06:54AM (MST)[p]REactor,

When the Henry Mountains, Book Cliffs and Paunsagunt were closed to hunting - due to low DEER populations, after massive predator control, habitat, and more bucks, deer populations increased 10X.

Garth Carter, a former biologist and avid hunter, and many other biologists - Larry Voyles AZ Game and Fish, Todd Black Utah STate etc, say it can't be proven why, and it is always not the case, but many times, having a greater percentage of bucks, with mature bucks in the herds increases total populations of deer.

What we know from traveling the state is that most sportsmen believe Utah's deer herds are dropping dramatically in population, in spite of a lot of effort, and something more needs to be done, because it is about too late.

As far as fishing, When the DWR was trying to raise $10,000 to put larger Rainbows into strawberry - increase survival from Chub predation - SFW came up with $7,500. all the other fishing groups came up with $2,500

SFW helped pass in stream flow laws, to keep fish alive in low water times - opposed at that time by some in the farm buruea.

and, SFW helped get tens of millions of dollars in funding to completely rebuild Utah fish hatcheries, thus increasing the capacity to plant more fish.

 

[smitty]

Whether you guys support SFW, or Don Peay, you need to thank them/him for what they are doing for you. Without SFW, and their efforts going to washington and fighting for our hunting and wildlife rights, the bad guys would win, and hunting would cease.

So next time you want to b!tch and moan about any hunting matters, why don't you buy a plane ticket to D.C. get a meeting with the President of the US, and go fix the problem yourself. It's either that or hope and pray the wolves decide not to come to utah, and the deer herd magically rebounds, and you can draw every tag you've ever put in for.