SF 0114 resident bonus points. Elk, deer, antelope

Zeke

Zeke

Long Time Member
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LAST EDITED ON Jan-23-15 AT 12:03PM (MST)[p]I've read in the past about the pros and cons of a potential resident bonus points system.

Here's the scoop nestled in SF 0114 and I'm surprised that there isn't more discussion about it on MM.

What ye thinks guys?

I personally like points (but I'm a NR guy so I have no choice).... right up until someone goes and changes the damn rules!!!!!

There are many of you who are against points for these species so I'm surprised about the lack of discussion. Am I missing something?

Zeke
 
Oh, this bill will generate discussion. It was just posted on the legisweb site today. A little different spin than last year's bill. Looks like 50% of the license would go to the max pref pt holders for elk/deer/antelope.
 
I like this. Whats good for NR is good for Residents. I am off to Cheyenne to make sure this happens! ;-)
 
I know Buzz isn't a big fan of points, to say the least. For this reason I hope it fails.
Zeke
 
Bonus points suck no matter what state you live in. That goes for resident/nonresident. Big game hunting is starting to be a real pain in the azz.
 
>Bonus points suck no matter what
>state you live in. That
>goes for resident/nonresident. Big
>game hunting is starting to
>be a real pain in
>the azz.

I still enjoy the hunting but the license acquisition portion is getting stranger every day.
 
Looks like it changes the current allocation for non-residents for elk/deer/lope from 75 to 50% so some odds would change next year.
 
I'm glad to see they added the 50/50 random/PP in the bill. We can keep beating up on each other, or find common ground. I think it's somewhere around an even split with residents on this and both sides count in wildlife issues.

I can go with this bill.
 
The department shall assign points to each license
applicant for a specific species by multiplying the number
of years the applicant has unsuccessfully applied for a
license times one (1), but in no event shall the
applicant's total points, including resident and
nonresident points accumulated, exceed the maximum number
of points allocated to resident applicants in that year.

What does this mean? Please dumb it down for me.

Zeke
 
I believe that means us NRs with max points at 9 can't swoop in next year and move to the state and draw a premo tag. If we crossed over and had more points it would be capped at whatever max for residents is/was.
 
Jeff,
Does this cheapen the PP which non-residents already have?
What species does it affect for the Non-res?
Zeke
 
>I believe that means us NRs
>with max points at 9
>can't swoop in next year
>and move to the state
>and draw a premo tag.
> If we crossed over
>and had more points it
>would be capped at whatever
>max for residents is/was.

That's the way I took it too but I wasn't smart enough to know for sure.

Zeke
 
Not my fight at all, but the only people who don't like points are those without enough of them. often that's me.

Points a the path to tags you may never otherwise hold in your life. people gripe about kids and newbies not have as good of chance, that's the idea. they have to wait their turn like the guy who's tried for 30 years.



If I were a resident I'd want this bill to pass, get in on the ground floor and life is good.












Stay thirsty my friends
 
>Not my fight at all, but
>the only people who don't
>like points are those without
>enough of them. often
>that's me.
>
>Points a the path to tags
>you may never otherwise hold
>in your life. people
>gripe about kids and newbies
>not have as good of
>chance, that's the idea. they
>have to wait their turn
>like the guy who's tried
>for 30 years.
>
>
>
>If I were a resident I'd
>want this bill to pass,
> get in on the
>ground floor and life is
>good.
>

Life is good once, Than your sucking hind tit.

I really don't mind points, The best thing is you can plan when to draw.
 
>Life is good once, Than your
>sucking hind tit.
>

Yep, provided you got in the first year, and made worse with a 50/50 split.
 
I'm wondering why a couple people are talking about NRs in regards to this Bill because it doesn't change anything or have anything to do with nonresidents. However, if a NR moves to Wyoming and establishes residency it doesn't allow him to move to the front of the line, but restricts his PPs to the max that is in effect in the year he applies in case he has more than that.
 
Topgun, Yep, I read through the bill too fast. There is language at the beginning of the bill talking about non-resident and resident preference points. I thought they were proposing to make both res & non-res tags 50% pref point and 50% random. (making it consistent). I see that these percentages are only for residents & the non res will stay the same as before (75% to top pref point holders). My bad.
 
Even though it appears that it doesn't affect me, since I'm already required to play with points, I've read the thing several times. It looks like the G&F are required to give a "minimum" of 50% to the top points holders BUT it say nothing about being REQUIRED to have 50% random.
50/50???? Maybe that's what it meant to say but that's not what it says.
Zeke
 
I'd have better luck translating ancient Swahili, but I think they're saying the random draw will be at least 50% of the quota.
 
So, I take it if a person was a NR with 0 points, but was thinking of moving to Wyoming in the future, he could start buying points now so when he moved he would be in the game?

Eel

It's written in the good Book that we'll never be asked to take more than we can. Sounds like a good plan, so bring it on!
 
>So, I take it if a
>person was a NR with
>0 points, but was thinking
>of moving to Wyoming in
>the future, he could start
>buying points now so when
>he moved he would be
>in the game?
>
>Eel

The way I read it anyone with any amount of PPs could move to Wyoming and establish residency, but they could not use those points to jump over those with max points in a given year that they apply. Some may not realize it, but for sheep and moose where both residents and NRs have PPs built up, those PPs stay with that person if he moves and are applied in whichever draw he's in when he applies as a resident or NR.
 
That's true Mike.
I told my wife that I'd be moving to Wyoming if/when the sheep quota changes!
Whether she come with me or not is optional! LMAO
Ya, Eel, you could start points now and stay up with the residents providing you legally move there sometime.
Zeke
 
I know what you mean about that Zeke! I love Wyoming so much and am out there so long every Fall that I really think I should have a partial vote out there, LOL! My wife knew when she married me 40 years ago next July that my passion, and/or obsession is hunting and is great in that she's very independent and can do anything needed while I'm out there. All she asks is that I call her every night as long as I have cell service to let her know everything is okay and to make sure everything is okay on the home front. It's looking like I'll be out there for the entire months of September and October this fall the way the hunts are shaping up right now.
 
I'm not sure if anyone has thought about this but are they making it possible for residents to apply with nonressy for pref pt and random draw tags? Colo isn't set up that way which is a bummer if nonres and res want to apply together. Tag alotments are different so I'm not sure how they would get around that issue?

One thing to remember if you are a Wyo res is that the toughest units/tags to draw in Wyo likely won't be much easier to draw with a pref pt system and may take a lifetime to draw. Bighorn and moose are great examples of this in Wyo! For species like antelope where there is a large turn over of tags there is a lot less pt creep than possibly highest demand elk units/tags. Wyo res may want to think this over in detail before passing it. A pref pt system similar to Colo's makes it difficult for young and new hunters just starting out applying to draw extremely limited, high demand tags. A bonus pt system similar to Nevada's is a little more "fair" for everyone.

With that said, I've been fortunate to draw a bunch of great Wyo tags over the years thanks to the pref pt system for nonres.
 
What do the residents of WY not get! Ask virtually anyone in a state with points and they tend to hate it! I would love a system of pure random draw! Points only gaur tee you a license if you manage to out live the others! Look at Colorado, top units are taking right at max point still for NR and the number of points required is growing each and every year!

I hate the point system and would rather have the random any day! I have figured it out, by the time my son gets old enough to start hunting, to have a chance at a top elk unit he will need to be holding 29 points minimum!

Point absolutely suck, keep your random and atpeast you have a real chanc every single year!
 
>Bonus points suck no matter what
>state you live in. That
>goes for resident/nonresident. Big
>game hunting is starting to
>be a real pain in
>the azz.


A em plus 1000! I hate points and would prefer random any day!
 
There is a benefit to points, and that's the ability to know which hunts you can draw on a yearly basis. Granted they may not be top units, or even mid tier but you do have some some clarity.
 
Just a different way to the top of the mountain. Nothing will be easier to draw, and the top areas will be just as hard to draw as before. There will still be a significant random element as written in the proposed bill.

This site is not a very good reflection of how most residents feel about this issue, or any others, as very few are represented. The poster above suggesting that Wyoming residents "don't get it" is way off base . . .
 
It's a matter of supply and demand. Colo is a great example to look at. There are relatively few limited elk units in Colo and a large proportion of OTC units. There are 3 or 4 exceptional elk units in Colo with extremely high demand. Obviously those that didn't apply for those units from the start have 0 chance of ever drawing those tags. Colo changed this and offered about 1 tag to all applicants with horrible odds.

Now take a look at Colo deer draw stats. All Colo deer units are a draw. This dramatically changes things. There are still 3 or 4 deer units that have horrible draw odds but if you do a little research there are fantastic deer units that can be drawn without close to max pts. The turn over of deer tags is pretty good in the high majority of units in Colo. Obviously supply and demand for both deer and elk tags are higher for nonres than res.

With that said, top units in Wyo for elk, deer, and antelope will likely have pt creep. High demand tags will remain close to once in a lifetime tags to draw no matter the draw system. Young and new applicants to this system are screwed for drawing these top, high demand units...but would have a remote chance of drawing in the random draw pool. Tags similar to antelope that have extremely high turn over rates will almost guarantee tags in a relatively shorter length of time.

In the random draw hunters can draw tags and have the same chance to draw a 2nd tag the following years. Some may complain that those that apply more years should have a little better chance to draw. Everyone seems to have their own opinion on this.
 
With 50% of the tags still going random draw, its hard to see why anyone would compare this bill to Colorado. Also hard to understand why so many non rezi's think they have a fight in the game.

Here's to hoping this one finally sticks...
 
Has anyone heard anything about the committee vote? Nothing on legislature website yet, but a buddy heard that it did not make it out of committee.
 
Died in committee 4-1. 4 years in a row the sportsmen of Wyoming have killed it. This thing and the people who keep pushing it are like a cancer that won't go away.
Let's hope they don't bring it back next year..............
-Cade
 
ihuntelk, I couldn't agree with you more! It is getting real old seeing this bill year after year. Glad it failed, it was the worse bill yet and is asinine for these couple of legislatures to continue pushing this bill upon the Wyoming Sportsman!
 
"Died in committee 4-1. 4 years in a row the sportsmen of Wyoming have killed it. This thing and the people who keep pushing it are like a cancer that won't go away.
Let's hope they don't bring it back next year.............."
-Cade

Wow Powell! You just keep on proving what lies inside that chest of yours.

Just for the record, I wasn't part of any PP bill this year, but my mom did pass away from cancer this past fall...
 
Glad it's dead. I would support nv style bonus pts. Still contend that these pts do nothing to change odds.
Nv style pts with a waiting period for units with <40% draw odds.
Maybe next year?
 
Lots cancers out there for sure. Like the guy that had the meeting at his church (Mormon church in Saratoga)with people that have no interest in hunting at all. So PP didn't even have an effect on them whatsoever. He persuaded them to write letters to the legislative committee telling them to not support PP. He told them exactly what to write and how to write it. He told the lies about how the youth would not draw tags for 40 years. And its not fair that the person that drew the tag 3 years in a row would not have the same chance as someone that hasn't drawn that tag after 25 years of applying. along with that, he shows up at the TRW committee meeting with his daughters and pimps them out in a display as though they will be like disabled invalids if the PP bill passes. This person calls himself an ethical person, hunter, church member. I call him a car salesman, lawyer, carney.
No, sportsmen didn't kill this bill 4 years in a row. Cancer did. The cancer in the sportsmens community. Like this cancer in the Saratoga community. Like this cancer in that Mormon church community in Saratoga. This cancer goes by the name of Cade Powell.

Ethics and honesty? Nope! Not with him.

The PP bill WILL BE BACK!
 
Geez you guys need to get a grip. It's about hunting, a recreational activity for goodness sake. Enough with the vindictive BS, it's disgusting.

I'm truly sorry for your loss JM.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jan-31-15 AT 08:08PM (MST)[p]No the cancer is you idiots for wanting pp. Maybe you should apply in other states and learn the pp game before you speak about it. Great job to all those who stepped up to get this bill defeated no matter what your religion is.
 
>LAST EDITED ON Jan-31-15
>AT 08:08?PM (MST)
>
>No the cancer is you idiots
>for wanting pp. Maybe you
>should apply in other states
>and learn the pp game
>before you speak about it.
>Great job to all those
>who stepped up to get
>this bill defeated no matter
>what your religion is.

Or how you got it accomplished....
 

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