Selling a Birthright: What would the West be like without its federal lands?

Class warfare propaganda. Somehow anyone with money isn't part of that "birthright" and they aren't "real" Americans.

I love one of the last arguments of how the states will sell the lands, and although the land is worthless by their argument, somehow only evil billionaires will be able to buy any. I guess this is what accounts for logic these days.

How about this. Why don't you earn some money and be ready to buy some yourself. Why don't you EARN a real "birthright" for your kids?
 
That's a great read. Thanks

There was an article in a Field and Stream magazine which was similar to this one.

I cannot see ONE reason why a sportsman would want the State(s) to have control and ownership of current Federal lands!

This is just another way to sell, trade, barter or lease OUR cherished public lands. Bad bad idea for all sportsmen.

Wake up sportsmen!
Zeke
 
>How about this. Why don't
>you earn some money and
>be ready to buy some
>yourself. Why don't you
>EARN a real "birthright" for
>your kids?

That's perfect, Tri.
Let's chop it up into little chunks of private land.
Brilliant idea.

Zeke
 
Great read Hawkeye.

As a nonresident Texan who personally owns a ranch, I still agree that it would be a mistake to take away use of these public lands by the public

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
 
LAST EDITED ON May-14-15 AT 12:07PM (MST)[p]

>
>
>That's perfect, Tri.
>Let's chop it up into little
>chunks of private land.
>Brilliant idea.
>
>Zeke

Unfortunately this is what is happening in Texas as we speak. My Grandfather bought a 10,000 acre ranch in 1908 and had 10 kids. My father got 1000 acres which we still have and it won't ever be divided or sold while I am alive. However, my daughter and my 2 siblings kids are not all that interested so it may well be sold off to a developer in the future after I am gone. The ranch to our south has been sold off in 50 acre tracts and there is a deer feeder next to our fence about every 1/4 mile.

The developer that sold off that ranch in little chunks lives in the same town as I do and has a 2.5 acre lot for sale but wouldn't sell it to me for my small animal vet clinic because it was next to his personal home property and his wife didn't want anything that might reduce the value of THEIR property. Funny he didn't mind lowering the intrinsic value of my ranch though


txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
 
LAST EDITED ON May-14-15 AT 12:41PM (MST)[p]>Class warfare propaganda. Somehow anyone
>with money isn't part of
>that "birthright" and they aren't
>"real" Americans.
>
>I love one of the last
>arguments of how the states
>will sell the lands, and
>although the land is worthless
>by their argument, somehow only
>evil billionaires will be able
>to buy any. I
>guess this is what accounts
>for logic these days.
>
>How about this. Why don't
>you earn some money and
>be ready to buy some
>yourself. Why don't you
>EARN a real "birthright" for
>your kids?


Because my Southwest Texas State 4 year degree packin unemployed garbage Jerry Springer watchin, chicken fried steak eatin Texas ex lied, cheated and stole my family land, my life savings, and three sons (whom she brainwashed). This crap-on-a-stick never made one deposit in our joint checking account in 20 years. Lied about income, lied about accounts, lied about dam near everything. Took advantage of every possible unsustainable Texas Johnson Administration giveaway program, entitlement and loophole. Played the system like a Texas fiddle. She even stole $132,000 of my son's college money then hid it in trust funds so I couldn't sue her on their behalf. Because the government won't go after criminals if it's not profitable for them. Same reason they won't go after the $32,000 in Pell Grant money she fraudulently applied for and received. Last I checked they don't give Pell grants to kids who's applicant mother has $500,000 in the bank, albeit concealed. When you get a chance why don't you stop in Austin Sometime and explain the definition of your word "EARN" to my Texan ex? They sure as hell didn't teach her that at SWTSU. Took 8 years for two of my sons (whom I supported single handedly) to wise up to her BS and reconnect to me. And the third finally after 10 years. Thank you Johnson Administration for producing this crap-on-a-stick.

One of the things I learned during this nightmare is that 99% of attorneys are simply self serving professional lying white collar criminals. And 99% of state officials, legislators, and bureaucrats are attorneys. No way on god's green earth would I trust a single one of them. I don't know how these criminals were evaded on a federal level during the creation of our federal land system, but thank god it somehow happened. Management may not be perfect, but the alternative would be catastrophic for certain.

Any other questions?

***********************************
Member RMEF, Pope & Young Club, NRA, UWC & DP Hate Club
 
tristate said,

Class warfare propaganda. Somehow anyone with money isn't part of that "birthright" and they aren't "real" Americans.

Nobody said that, you made it up in your shallow, pointed head. Federal Public lands are every U.S. Citizens birthright, rich, poor, old, young, etc. etc.

I love one of the last arguments of how the states will sell the lands, and although the land is worthless by their argument, somehow only evil billionaires will be able to buy any. I guess this is what accounts for logic these days.

The states will sell a vast majority of it. Economically and financially, the States are not in a position to administer that volume of land. Do some research, even the State where this half-baked wingnut idea started, Utah, has proven it a financial dead end.

Further, the States have already sold and squandered a lot of their State Trust lands. Utah, for instance has sold 3.5 of 7 million acres...enough that 1 in every 3 acres of current private lands was once owned by the State.

How about this. Why don't you earn some money and be ready to buy some yourself. Why don't you EARN a real "birthright" for your kids?

Why should anyone have to "repurchase" what we already paid for. The United States Citizens have already paid for Federal Lands.

Finally, anyone that hunts big-game knows that the big-game found in the West needs "big country" as well. That includes travel/migration corridors, summer, fall, spring and winter habitat, just to name a few of the requirements.

Those intact ecological areas are at risk with anything but Federal Control of Public Lands. We cant have fragmented habitat that is sure to follow with everyone purchasing their own little piece of heaven.

Elk, mule deer, bighorn sheep, pronghorn, mountain goats, lynx, wolverine, fisher, martens, grizzlies, wolves, etc. etc. etc. those things just don't respond to corn-flingers and high fences like Texas whitetails and circus animals.

Time to grow up tristate and start using that over-sized noggin of yours, for more than a hat rack.
 
Tris need to stick with fenced cornfliggers, every time he come out west to our open spaces he has to hire a guide to wipe his azz.
 
Tristate said - How about this. Why don't you earn some money and be ready to buy some yourself. Why don't you EARN a real "birthright" for your kids?

I've done just that. Good fortune makes it so I could hunt anywhere, if I so decided. I could buy plenty of landowner tags, exclusive hunts, and the things you equate to having "EARNED a birthright." Lucky me. And it sure didn't happen all by myself.

In my process of having "EARNED" it, as you say, I came across a lot of other people who were happy to help me "EARN" what you strangely call a "real birthright." These people who helped me "earn a birthright" made choices that led them to careers they found fulfilling and important, if not financially lucrative. Careers that allowed them to guide poor rural kids to a vision that we could have never dreamed of growing up in trailer parks and wearing third-phase hand me downs.

One of these people who help me "earn a real birthright" was my sixth grade teacher who took a lot of time out of his personal life to make sure this young boy, whose parents had been through a nasty divorce, did not find trouble that seemed to always be around a corner. He did that job for 40 years, helping guide a lot of other youngsters away from trouble and showing them how in America, they could "earn a birth right," as you put it. This guy raised three kids of his own, in addition to taking plenty of his students hunting, and did so on public lands that were important to his hunting access.

One was a local sheriff who caught me doing a stupid teenage stunt. Rather than punish me, he taught me some life lessons that I carry with me today. He recently died, with some of the fondest memories retold by his six children being their times camping on public lands.

Another person is a bookkeeper who worked her butt off at my CPA firm and raised two boys who both joined the military as their way to a better future. She helped me "earn this birthright" and got paid more than any bookkeeper I know, but still not a lucrative endeavor. She loved her work, our clients, and her family. Her entire family hunted public lands for food they enjoyed. Her sons did not join the military to defend some ideology that only folks who have "earned a birthright" measured by your financial standards should have a place to hunt.

Another person is a state wildlife biologist who worked 50+ hours at his state job, then went around on his own time volunteering to teach young hunters about firearm safety, wildlife biology, etc. He spent countless hours with local landowners working on public access issues. He volunteered for anything he through would help hunters. He gave generously for all 35+ years of his career and is now retired on a very modest pension.

I could list mountains of people who helped me "earn a birthright;" who made my life better and my hunting more successful. None of them would have been hunters in a world you advocate for where only those with piles of money should have a place to hunt. The least I can do is to make sure they, their kids, and their grandchildren, have a place to hunt, fish, camp, and hike.

Maybe advocating to protect that public lands that provide the access for those who choose to help others "earn a birthright" is too much to ask for those entrenched in the mindset of "take all you can and screw everyone else."

I am not alone among those who have been financially fortunate. I suspect most, who you would say "earned a birthright," would acknowledge that they did it with the help of a lot of others who gave up their "financial birthright" to make our communities a better place. The idea that somehow we all did it on our own, with no help, is a load of BS.

A comment of "earning a birthright" as some sort of individualistic heroism and points negatively at anyone who decides to contribute to society in other ways, is a crock. Implying that those who choose to contribute in a way that does not amass money somehow makes them inferior and unworthy of places to hunt is a sad reflection on those making such implications.

Pardon me for thinking that protection of public lands and hunting access to those lands is part of an "American Birthright." That's exactly what it is.

Is it too much to ask that we protect those lands so the teacher, the deputy, the bookkeeper, the enlisted man, the state biologist can have a place to hunt? So that they can have a place to do something so important to them and their family traditions; have a place to hunt, camp, hike?

If some think that public lands are not a cause worth protecting, then go set your camp with the swindlers and political connivers behind this effort. A lot of us do think keeping public lands public is worth protecting, whether or not we have "earned a birthright"

Comments such as yours are reflective of the self-aggrandizing mindset that is behind this kind of "screw the people" efforts. Don't dislocate your shoulder while patting yourself on the back for all you have accomplished in this world, all by yourself, with no help at all from the serfs who you so despise for wanting to protect something that has been a cornerstone of our society since our country was formed - public lands.

Carry on ......

"Hunt when you can - You're gonna' run out of health before you run out of money!"
 
BigFin, Very nicely done, thank you!

Joey


"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"
 
Big Fin... That was a great read, please put that in print so the ones making decisions can read it as well... Very down to earth and professional with no name calling, they won't know how to handle it!
 
All that talk Bigfin and it finally dawned on me you actually don't know what "earning a birthright" is because you think being a really good person and helping others ENTITLES you to a piece of something.

Why don't you try getting up day after day and doing what is best when EVERY ONE HATES YOU FOR IT. Scrape and save every spare cent to by an actual property, instead of a devalued deer tag. PAY PROPERTY TAXES EVERY YEAR ON YOUR BIRTHRIGHT! Try keeping the government from taking it, and the banks from getting it, and even a bunch of internet socialists who want it for their cheaper hunting. Try fighting for something no one else on earth cares about EVEN YOUR CHILDREN. Find the guy that does it year after year until finally someone throws him in the clay and the government comes to take away %54 of his kids REAL BIRTHRIGHT.

Bigfin a lot of those men are right there in that article for you to hate and belittle with your internet buddies. Some of those men you will never have the tenacity or drive to become, frankly because you don't have the discipline nor understand sacrifice.
 
Great stuff!!
Keep it up Tri....luckily,I rarely hear anyone as ignorant in this great country of ours.
And anyone who has given any thought to this is certainly not as ignorant of the facts.
They may show their greed colors and be show for what they are,charlatains.Commonly known outside of tristate as carpetbaggers.
 
Tristate-

You have missed the point, yet again. Nobody said anything about hating private landowners. I have great respect for people who work, save and sacrifice so that they can invest in a piece of private property. I have many friends, family members and clients who are landowners. Good for them. The problem arises when a few well-connected folks start pushing to transfer, privatize and sell off of our public lands, which belong to all of us. If you, me or anybody else wants to buy a piece of property, go buy a piece of property that is already in private ownership. Don't go sneaking around in the dark and lobbying our politicians in an effort to steal our public lands.

-Hawkeye-
 
LAST EDITED ON May-14-15 AT 04:52PM (MST)[p]From Trist "Bigfin a lot of those men are right there in that article for you to hate and belittle with your internet buddies. Some of those men you will never have the tenacity or drive to become, frankly because you don't have the discipline nor understand sacrifice". WTH?
 
Hawkeyes,

I believe you don't have anything against landowners. However you just don't want any more of them.
 
Don't feed the troll! When you wrestle with a pig you don't get anything but dirty. Not worth it in IMO. Great post Randy.
 
Utah400,

You realize you say no one should respond to me and then praise a post which was entirely a response to me. Do you call me a troll becuase you don't use logic? Do you realize your post was so stupid it contradicts itself?
 
That article stung tristate, that's why he responded in the way he did.

It's just that tri has a different value system, he sees black where others see white, some of it is a Texas thing I'm sure, being so close to Mexico.
But im sure he didn't grow up being an much of an outdoormen,and he confuses politics with life. His vision is very limited and narrow in my opinion.
 
Piper,

I envision a west like it has never been. You can't defend the article so you attack me. Check you vision.
 
>Piper,
>
>I envision a west like it
>has never been.
>


One like none of us want. Keep your bull$hit Trisnake. We don't want it either.


[font color="blue"]I don't make the soup,I just stir it.[/font]
 
>Piper,
>
>I envision a west like it
>has never been. You
>can't defend the article so
>you attack me. Check
>you vision.

Sure sounds like the robber barrons and carpet baggers that had dialog in many westerns I watched growing up. The bad guys had a vision where they wanted everything and stole what they couldn't swindle and the good guys had to fight and win. Pale rider rings a bell....

I have a vision,it's of an American West that is still there for future generations. For all Americans.
 
First of all, Tri-State and his opinions are not the face of the federal land transfer movement- although I have to admit if it can be made to appear that way it would benefit the federal argument.

I do find it very interesting that there is no mention of extreme environmentalists and anti-hunters in any of these pro federal management arguments. The "big business", "sell all the land" arguments are fair questions (more accurately assumptions), but an honest discussion of federal land management cannot completely ignore the power that entrenched extreme environmental philosophies and anti-hunters have at the federal level. To completely ignore these issues in a discussion of federal land management is disingenuous.
 
There are lots of different faces to the movement, Senator Cruz says sell anything above 50% in each state and Rick Santorum says basically sell it all, that's at the federal level. At the local and county levels it runs from state control to county control to sell everything that's valuable and has water on it.

In Elko Nevada the county commissioners put on a speech saying public access wouldn't change, one month later one member of the commission let it slip that state control was just a pathway to privatization.

Tristate, I'm not attacking you, just noting that you come from a far different land than I do, and the things you value in outdoor life are completely different from what I do.
 
Which Commissioner was that? Where can I see what was said?

[font color="blue"]I don't make the soup,I just stir it.[/font]
 
The commissioner who's initials start with J W. I believe, although the one who said everything would stay the same is D D. A member of the RAC shared the classic contradiction to me.

I guess you know that the Elko county commissioners are not at all pro wildlife, They won't say it outright of course. Elk are special targets, along with the loss of world class bighorn sheep herds, Elkoans have really lost out.
When push comes to shove, it's wildlife that always takes a back seat to everything else.

And these are the ones who want power over that land and what its used for, I can't imagine a worse nightmare for wildlife and hunters alike.
 
I'm very familiar with the Elko commission.

[font color="blue"]I don't make the soup,I just stir it.[/font]
 
Wildman brings up some good points. Witness California, the most environmentally friendly state of all. My hunting "birth right" has turned into a 5-8% hunter success rate on public land and I can go 2 or 3 years without seeing a legal deer to harvest. What a joy. I can't wait to share it with my grandsons.

Eel

It's written in the good Book that we'll never be asked to take more than we can. Sounds like a good plan, so bring it on!
 
Eelgrass,

The state is responsible for big-game management in California, separate issue from transferring public lands to the State.

There are more things to consider on Federal lands than your "right" to put a bullet in a deer, elk, etc.

I suggest if you want to make changes to game management in CA, then get off the 'net and start making it happen.

Eagerly awaiting your excuses as to why you "cant" do that.
 
RE: The Money.

No problem Wiley. We need to share as much information as possible on this issue. Thanks for posting.

-Hawkeye-
 
>All that talk Bigfin and it
>finally dawned on me you
>actually don't know what "earning
>a birthright" is because you
>think being a really good
>person and helping others ENTITLES
>you to a piece of
>something.
>
>Why don't you try getting up
>day after day and doing
>what is best when EVERY
>ONE HATES YOU FOR IT.
> Scrape and save every
>spare cent to by an
>actual property, instead of a
>devalued deer tag. PAY
>PROPERTY TAXES EVERY YEAR ON
>YOUR BIRTHRIGHT! Try keeping
>the government from taking it,
>and the banks from getting
>it, and even a bunch
>of internet socialists who want
>it for their cheaper hunting.
> Try fighting for something
>no one else on earth
>cares about EVEN YOUR CHILDREN.
> Find the guy that
>does it year after year
>until finally someone throws him
>in the clay and the
>government comes to take away
>%54 of his kids REAL
>BIRTHRIGHT.
>
>Bigfin a lot of those men
>are right there in that
>article for you to hate
>and belittle with your internet
>buddies. Some of those
>men you will never have
>the tenacity or drive to
>become, frankly because you don't
>have the discipline nor understand
>sacrifice.

Because I am bored this morning. TRI, crack a book genius. MOST of Oklahoma, Kansas, Nebraska and North Mexico(texas) wasnt' bought by anyone, it was homesteaded under the homestead act. Your vision of private ownership, as usual is completely flawed. See son, Texas guys TALK about individuality, about ruggededness, about toughness, then they call their outfitter, check the lodging conditions, speaked to the chef about their gluten free options, and jump in the golf cart to ride out to their heated shack to "kill a ten point".

In the real west, we head out the door, and strap them on, and actually HUNT real, WILD, not genetically altered, non clover fed, non salt liked, WILD animals. We prefer to do so in WILD places, not clear cut, planted shooting lanes.
See TRI, before you start some tirade about buying anything, or scraping, a little education. MY PEOPLE, MY ANCESTORS walked across this country on foot. They starved, fought indians, fought drought, BLED, and even had the federal government send an army against them, to create what we have here in Utah. MY PEOPLE, my DIRECT ANCESTORS did this. Most of the guys in here have the same roots. OUR PEOPLE built it, and OUR PEOPLE protect it. YOUR PEOPLE, the tiny fraction of deep pockets who have decided they don't want the competition. Those guys who spew about survival of the fittest, competion, free market. YOUR PEOPLE, they want to rid all of the competion. They can't hack it in an open society. They can't fight fair. They can't hunt. They can't do much, other than back room, back slap, and back door each other. That is the group you are so fond of. Again, TRI, if Texas is such a Nirvana, why do you leave the state to hunt?


"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
 
RE: The Money.

Once again Randy is spot on.

There are so many false arguments used to justify wrongs. The argument that the states basically couldn't be as bad as the feds, so therefore let's get them control, is simply a false argument. Clearly it is a lesser of two evils situation, but the ability for "special interests" to impede at the local and state level is much greater.

The fundamental point is that the current access on Federal BLM and Forest Service lands needs to be maintained for the benefit of all equally. Watching a documentary on T.R. just the other day and hearing his desire to make sure that these very things be preserved reminded me of this very situation, so it is a timeless debate.

While it is NO doubt that the Feds are a better solution than the States, they will all need to be held accountable to the ideal. We need a louder, more focused, and more organized voice, and we need people like Randy who can communicate that message loud and clear.
 
RE: The Money.

Wiley,

You actually can't realize how ridiculous this article is???????

Lets stay away from the swerve in the road where they start the usual class warfare of evil billionaires being involved because the writers are too stupid to raise a real argument.

Lets look at the gorilla in the room. YOU ARE GETTING BEAT BY $200,000! Crying on the internet is nothing more than toothless dogs. All the sportsmen united on their computers are such an emasculated threat that your opponent is only having to spend 200k to give you the fight of your life. In the grand scheme of political spending you are getting whipped by their donut budget.
 
LAST EDITED ON May-16-15 AT 10:24AM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON May-16-15 AT 10:22?AM (MST)
Eel___
So things would be better if you trashed the environment? And would you rather leave your kids a legacy of "trespassers will be shot" signs?
 
RE: The Money.

Tri if you assume that all I'm doing is crying on the Internet
You'd be wrong.





"The State of Utah has not given BGF anything.
They have invested in BGF to protect their
interests."
Birdman 4/15/15
 
RE: The Money.

"Tri if you assume that all I'm doing is crying on the Internet
You'd be wrong."

THATS'S EVEN WORSE! You and all the others are doing sooooooo much more than being internet titty babies and you are getting whooped by $200,000!

I bet you wish your friend was one of those big Antelope Island bidders that you hate so much now. He might just give yall $250k to champion the fight.

You are scared to death of somebody spending the annual budget of a girlscout troop and kicking your asses!
 
piper, trash the environment? You mean like we did back in the 1960 and 1970's? Back when mountain lions weren't fully protected? Like back when logging created lots of open areas for feed to grow and deer numbers were high and you could see 50-100 deer a day? Like back when you could pass up young bucks if you were a trophy hunter?

Yes, put me down for wanting to trash the environment, as you put it.

I don't want to see our National Forests sold. (it won't be and we all know it). I don't want to see "no trespassing" signs where I used to hunt.

Can you explain to me why the most coveted places to hunt in California are on private property? Can you explain to me why deer herds on private property are generally healthy while deer herds on public land are in serious trouble? Could it be that land owners manage their property for the wise use of its natural resources? Could it that they have healthy sustainable forest management centered around logging? Could it be that land owners control predators on their land in spite of the laws?

My biggest fear is not "no trespassing" signs. My biggest fear is "no hunting" signs. If we don't reign in this run away preservationist mentality that's exactly what we're going to get.

BuzzH you seem to be intelligent and articulate. Fire off a letter to California Fish & Wildlife and tell them you'd like to see a mountain lion season to manage the population. Thanks.

Eel

It's written in the good Book that we'll never be asked to take more than we can. Sounds like a good plan, so bring it on!
 
>piper, trash the environment? You mean
>like we did back in
>the 1960 and 1970's? Back
>when mountain lions weren't fully
>protected? Like back when logging
>created lots of open areas
>for feed to grow and
>deer numbers were high and
>you could see 50-100 deer
>a day? Like back when
>you could pass up young
>bucks if you were a
>trophy hunter?
>
>Yes, put me down for wanting
>to trash the environment, as
>you put it.
>
>I don't want to see our
>National Forests sold. (it won't
>be and we all know
>it). I don't want to
>see "no trespassing" signs where
>I used to hunt.
>
>Can you explain to me why
>the most coveted places to
>hunt in California are on
>private property? Can you explain
>to me why deer herds
>on private property are generally
>healthy while deer herds on
>public land are in serious
>trouble? Could it be that
>land owners manage their property
>for the wise use of
>its natural resources? Could it
>that they have healthy sustainable
>forest management centered around logging?
>Could it be that land
>owners control predators on their
>land in spite of the
>laws?
>
>My biggest fear is not "no
>trespassing" signs. My biggest fear
>is "no hunting" signs. If
>we don't reign in this
>run away preservationist mentality that's
>exactly what we're going to
>get.
>
>BuzzH you seem to be intelligent
>and articulate. Fire off a
>letter to California Fish &
>Wildlife and tell them you'd
>like to see a mountain
>lion season to manage the
>population. Thanks.
>
>Eel
>
>It's written in the good Book
>that we'll never be asked
>to take more than we
>can. Sounds like a good
>plan, so bring it on!
>
>
>

The reason there are more deer on private than public is pretty simple. HOWEVER if you make the whole state private, and the deer herd explodes, and you have to take up knitting because you don't have land to hunt, HOW IS THAT A POSITIVE??


"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun"
 
Trisexual,

What are you going to buy? Yellowstone, Yosemite, or the Lincoln Monument? You are a complete a$$ clown. Why don't you go back to europe. Your ancestors left that $h!thole to scramble from needle heads who share your ideology. The game/land all goes to the king and his sophisticates. You are one of the self proclaimed sophisticates as you suppose.
4abc76ff29b26fc1.jpg
 
1911,

Learn some history. The vast majority of colonists who came here did so for two reasons. Religious persecution and PRIVATE PROPERTY OWNERSHIP!

Plus in all of these public land shifts there is no capability to shift the three properties you mentioned to the state. They are excluded.

Class warfare is an illogical argument to combat your own jealousies and inadequacies. What happened to MEN who could dream of being greater than what they are, making a plan to do so, and then executing it. Now you just cry on the internet about the evil king, THAT DOESN'T EVEN FRICKING EXIST!
 
hossblur, I just said don't make it private. What's wrong with you?

Come on out to California and join the 35,000 B tag holders and hunt on National Forest land with us. You probably won't see many deer but if you stay up all night there is a chance you'll hear a Spotted Owl hoot. And if you search around wet areas early in the morning you may spot an elusive banana slug. For your own safety don't wander more than a 1/2 mile from any road. That's claimed by Mexican drug cartels for pot growing.

Eel

It's written in the good Book that we'll never be asked to take more than we can. Sounds like a good plan, so bring it on!
 

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