Same theme for mule deer.

[luvdawest]

I just returned from the Eastern Sports Show in Harrisburg and spoke with just about every outfit from Wyoming. Everyone had the same theme about mule deer. The herd is way down and something needs to be done. Most of the outfitters there are cutting there hunts in half this year. It didn't seem to matter what region they were from either. Good luck to those of you hunting this year. Sounds like your going to have to hunt hard to find any big ones.

 

[mulecreek]

You have to hunt hard every year to find the big ones. Outfitters cutting their seasons in half is only because they cannot find enough hunters to fill their camps.

 

[piper]

We all know you have to hunt really hard, have lots of spotters, hightec gear, and lots of time ect.to "get the big ones" The real problem is there aren't many big ones left, I guess the predator is overwhelming the prey, and as in all species, an out of balance ratio means both species will decline in the long run. For now its just the deer.

 

[264mag]

Do you think in the near future their will be a wolf season?

 

[piper]

I would imagine they will hunt wolves soon, but truthfully I don't see wolves as being much of a problem when it comes to mule deer, I think humans are by far the biggest problem, overhunting, highway mortality,poaching gets a lot of the "big ones" and just plain human encroachment like subdivisions and energy development ect.

 

[mmwb]

I think Piper hit the nail on the head. Wolves are a significant problem, but more so for the elk and moose I believe. If a pack or two of wolves gets established in wintering areas, then the deer will suffer greatly.

I live in G and have a differing view than many. I didn't live here during the heyday, so haven't had to suffer the loss that those who have experienced it have had to. There is no doubt that the size of the herd has decreased. A limit on the tags would no doubt be helpful, though improved winter habitat would go a long ways to help. With what I observe as healthy buck to do ratios, I see the herd decline as subsequent to far worse problems than over hunting, unless it is doe hunts in those areas that are suffering. I realize some of the doe hunts are in response to poor winter habitat that is stretching the survivability of the current herd as it is, though the summer habitat could support substantially more deer.

As a local I would support LE hunting in this area with general tags for youth under age 18 to increase the number of mature bucks breeding the does. Mature bucks will breed the does earlier leading to earlier births and a higher survivability of the fawns through the next winter. Continued general hunting with a four point or better (both sides) limit for adult hunters would also probably help as a lot of the local hunters are not really trophy hunters and won't put the effort into meeting the restrictions. Just an idea I have... I think that better predator control would be helpful as well. The deer that winter here do suffer a high rate of mortality to lions. I can find a number of fresh (of the week) lion kills in any of the canyons all winter in this area and we have a lot of canyons.

All that being said, while numbers are down a bit, I see very good buck to doe ratios and those who want a 160 class buck can find one if he is willing to hunt for it and knows how. There are some very nice bucks in the 180+ range and I've seen bigger, but you will be the odd man out if you get one through sitting on a ridge and glassing. My observation, based on the few that I do get a glimpse off, and based on sign, is that the bruisers are timbering up all the time--not just during the hunting season. They are fewer no doubt then in days of yore and as they have adapted, so will those hunters who continue to kill them.

I am not a great deer hunter and have only committed my self to getting a mature buck the past few years. While I have seen trophy deer every year since then (MY definition of trophy is would probably be a 170+ buck--though I am more interested in character and overall look than inches), seeing is one thing, killing is another. Even with the decline in deer numbers, I am certain of a Boone and Crocket buck in the years to come and am grateful for the opportunity to just hunt them.

 

[luvdawest]

What I thought was most interesting was these guys traveled 1700 miles to sale hunts yet they were still being pretty open about what is going on in Wyoming. I didn't hear much about the wolves but I did hear about the things Piper and mmwb mentioned. The lions, habitat loss, bad winters and to many licenses were the common themes.

 

[Bodhi]

Plus 1 piper.

Denali national park is a perfect example of wolves and big game species. lots of wolves and lots of moose, caribou, dall sheep etc....only difference is no hunting.

 

[piper]

There arent many true intact wildernesses like Denali left, overhunting is different than hunting, look at the healthy elk herds in Utah, hunters are a big part of why they are there.

 

[Bodhi]

yes, good point. That's what I meant in my first post. Trying to say that over hunting is far worse than wolves.

 

[nontypical]

LAST EDITED ON Feb-06-12 AT 09:15PM (MST)[p]mmwb-Just wondering.If the unit is 4 pt or better,why make both sides be a 4 pt?Wouldn't you want the inferior 4x3 or 4x2 gene eliminated?There are very few instances where point restrictions have actually been successful in raising the number of mature bucks or buck/doe ratios.That's been proven many times in many states.However,in some instances,it is a great tool if used for 2-3 years.Once you get past that 3rd year,in most states the regulation actually made things go the opposite direction.When b/d ratios are critically low,the reg can work wonders-and very quickly as well.I think it's a tool that should be used on a constant basis by G&F,just for micro-managing a unit for a couple years to get the herd back in balance.G&F uses it only in rare instances.I think they should use it a lot more in specific cases.

 

[Liontamer]

Now there is some real common sense.....great comment!

 

[mmwb]

Nontypical, you makes some really good points! It was just an impulsive thought of mine (4x4 vs 4x?). I wasn't thinking in terms of genetics as there are such great genetics in this area anyway. I thought the four point, both sides, would decrease the harvest a bit more than one side. It may be flawed logic and beyond what I perceive to be a bit of common sense, I don't consider myself all that knowledgeable about wildlife management. I also agree that point restrictions would only be favorable as a short term solution.

 

[TOPGUN]

Normally antler restrictions are a last resort used by the F&G because, as you mentioned, they aren't a long term solution. Normally I believe they only put that restriction on one side and the one negative I see to any restrictions is because there are always some bozos that shoot and then when they see that the animal is not legal, they leave it to rot in the field and continue hunting.

 

[MULEY204]

NONTYPICAL IS SPOT ON, JUST LEAVE THOSE LITTLE FORKY'S ALONE AND STOP WHACKING THE ONES MAKING THE BABIES.

 

[mmwb]

"There are always some bozos that shoot and then when they see that the animal is not legal, they leave it to rot in the field and continue hunting."

Unfortunately, there are a few that shoot and just decide they don't like ground shrinkage (regardless of size) that do the same--regardless of restrictions.

 

[ICMDEER]

Western Wyoming might be struggling but the eastern part of the state has pretty healthy deer herds and we don't have the tough winters and large predators mentioned earlier. We're still taking the same (conservative) number of hunters we've always taken and things still look good. Perhaps the big difference is that eastern Wyoming is predominatnly private lands and western Wyoming is primarily public lands.

On the well-managed private places, even with fewer numbers than in the heyday, we still have older age class deer and good numbers. Our winter range has not changed either. Just FYI.