RMEF Mission Statement

[cannonball]

The following statement is nothing new for most on the hunting relm, but as you will notice one of their main topic is to ensure the future of elk.

(RMEF Mission Statement & Fast Facts
The mission of the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation is to ensure the future of elk, other wildlife, their habitat and our hunting heritage. In support of our mission, the RMEF is committed to: conserving, restoring and enhancing natural habitats; promoting the sound management of wild elk, which may be hunted or otherwise enjoyed; restoring elk to their native ranges; and educating members and the public about habitat conservation and our hunting heritage.)

At what cost are we talking about? Many juniper and pinion have been chained and replanted. Most would say that is good and it has been for "ELK AND CATTLE". I believe it has NOT been good for deer only because almost everything has been planted in grass. To me, RMEF in Utah, has surpassed their usefulness. The elk herds are doing fine, in fact, too good. I believe the elk herds are indirectly destroying our deer herds. Competition in mountains for water, continuous hunting pressure (years ago you would never see deer in the foothills until the last week of the deer hunt. Now they are pushed into the fields and lower country before the regular deer hunt starts. And the big one - - predators, who used to starve to death when the deer herds were down in number, now feast on elk meat.

I WOULD NEVER, EVER LIKE TO SEE THE RMEF RECEIVE HUNTING BONUS TAGS IN UTAH. You say the DWR would decide where the money is going! I say their imput would mean more elk habitat - less deer habitat! I would rather see 30% to ALL rather 100% to elk.

SAVE THE DEER

 

[desertpointbrian]

You should maybe look at the millions of acres of deer wintering grounds they have preserved across the country.

 

[elks96]

WOW! Do you actually believe the crap that you wrote?

My only explanation is that you are suffering from oxygen loss to the brain from too much self induced autoerotic asphyxiation.

Seriously you think that helping elk and elk habitat is killing your deer? That is one of the most ridiculous statements out there... You mention chaining and removing of junipers and the resulting grass. In the short term yes grass becomes an emerging species but anyone with a little range management knowledge knows that immediately after a major disturbance grasses and emergent species take off first and in years other plants slowly take back over. So while a chained area may result in immediate grass growth, those grasses slowly get replaced by other Forbes etc. Anyone with a little experience in the oil and gass fields or with fires, or land slides etc. Realizes that in a few years those areas become great for deer despite the first couple of years being reseeded as grass.

Also what exactly does elk habitat look like? What makes it fundamentally different than deer habitat? I mean after all you assume more elk habitat means less deer habitat. But please tell me what is that elk like that would be so detrimental to the deer? Then also please show RMEF has ever pushed elk numbers so high in areas, that is actually was detrimental to other wildlife. Sorry but RMEF does not control the number of elk in the state. That decision is up to the biologist. Just because they make great habitat does not mean that the elk populations in Utah is going to double, triple etc. But it does mean that better habitat will produce healthier wildlife.

Yeah that evil RMEF is the problem with the deer herds. Maybe we should just kill all the elk and then the deer will just thrive...

Predators? Do you really think that the predators care what they eat? If there are no elk then they will eat something else.

 

[Carnage2011]

Do some research on their projects before you run your loose lips. If you want to support SFW go ahead, but don't try and stir things up about an organization that is upstanding and uses their money to promote wildlife. I hate when people try to dig up something petty without having any valid points.

 

[Tristate]

Must not be enough money in just elk management.

 

[Oneye]

LAST EDITED ON Mar-01-16 AT 11:17AM (MST)[p]RMEF actually just recently had an article in one of their past issues about this. It talked about how there was a state game agency wanted to do a prescribed burn or habitat project in an area and RMEF wouldn't help fund it unless they cut down on the acreage because, although it would have been better for elk, RMEF believed it would have been detrimental to mule deer in the area. It also talked about how they will never do projects that are not beneficial to all wildlife in the area. RMEF has an amazing track record of helping all wildlife, preserving land, and keeping your hunting heritage alive and well. Don't try to slander what could be considered one of if not the best organization for hunting and conservation that exists today. SFW has done decent work at times, the issue people have is the millions left on the table they slip into their pockets that are never publicly accounted for. SFW could do a lot by releasing verified information of where all that money goes. The hate for SFW comes out of no trust or accountability, not as much what they do. RMEF has protected over 1,700 square miles of habitat for all wildlife. If you want to believe in SFW that's fine, but don't desperately reach for something to slander other groups that talk the talk and then walk the walk. RMEF has said very little over the decision made over the expo permits, its the average hunter that is pissed as hell.

 

[Deerlove]

Texans wouldn't know a thing about elk. Well maybe if he asked his guide?

 

[TOPGUN]

+1 Oneye

 

[theox]

+1 to elks96 and oneye

 

[cannonball]

I expected a lot of strong vocal opposition to my beliefs. No slander here, just an opinion. It has only been recently that some game management folks are starting to realize elk have a diverse impact on deer. For you doubters, before I even thought about elk in Utah because they were just starting to increase I talked to an Idaho game management person. His point being that as Idaho's elk herds started to increase, the deer herds started to decline. Why? He wasn't sure. Why do most of the Friends of the Pausaugunt want to see most of the elk kept to a real low number. Why did the quality of Elk Ridge mule deer start to decline when the elk started increasing. I would hate to see elk on the Henry Mountain. Wouldn't you?

Where deer are more spread out I think they need more cover. Elk just move to the concentrated cover where ever it may be. Elk cover several miles, deer usual cover a mile or two. All in all in Utah elk are doing just fine, Deer are not.

Don't tell me that predators just eat something else if deer and elk are not available. A rabbit or two wouldn't hold a cougar over for the winter. They would die or find their way to small town cats and dogs.

Since we are being transparent could anybody tell me, in specifics, how much RMEF donated in Utah for wildlife during the last couple of years?

I would love to see SFW more tranparent!!
I think they would certainly put more money on the ground for deer than would RMEF. In other words, in case you haven't got it, the deer need our help, the elk do not.

 

[BIG]

LAST EDITED ON Mar-01-16 AT 02:44PM (MST)[p]Well one part I think people forget is that the Mule Deer Foundation is part of the Expo, but it sure seems that SFW takes all the heat.

I believe I saw John Bair state somewhere that they split the proceeds of the expo tags with MDF.

 

[desertpointbrian]

>LAST EDITED ON Mar-01-16
>AT 11:17?AM (MST)
>
>RMEF actually just recently had an
>article in one of their
>past issues about this. It
>talked about how there was
>a state game agency wanted
>to do a prescribed burn
>or habitat project in an
>area and RMEF wouldn't help
>fund it unless they cut
>down on the acreage because,
>although it would have been
>better for elk, RMEF believed
>it would have been detrimental
>to mule deer in the
>area. It also talked about
>how they will never do
>projects that are not beneficial
>to all wildlife in the
>area. RMEF has an amazing
>track record of helping all
>wildlife, preserving land, and keeping
>your hunting heritage alive and
>well. Don't try to slander
>what could be considered one
>of if not the best
>organization for hunting and conservation
>that exists today. SFW has
>done decent work at times,
>the issue people have is
>the millions left on the
>table they slip into their
>pockets that are never publicly
>accounted for. SFW could do
>a lot by releasing verified
>information of where all that
>money goes. The hate for
>SFW comes out of no
>trust or accountability, not as
>much what they do. RMEF
>has protected over 1,700 square
>miles of habitat for all
>wildlife. If you want to
>believe in SFW that's fine,
>but don't desperately reach for
>something to slander other groups
>that talk the talk and
>then walk the walk. RMEF
>has said very little over
>the decision made over the
>expo permits, its the average
>hunter that is pissed as
>hell.

Great post one eye couldn't agree anymore

 

[TOPGUN]

LAST EDITED ON Mar-01-16 AT 03:20PM (MST)[p]>Since we are being transparent could
>anybody tell me, in specifics,
>how much RMEF donated in
>Utah for wildlife during the
>last couple of years?
>
>I would love to see SFW
>more tranparent!!
>I think they would certainly put
>more money on the ground
>for deer than would RMEF.
> In other words, in
>case you haven't got it,
>the deer need our help,
>the elk do not.

Click on this link and read to your hearts content on what RMEF is doing and has done in the past in Utah, but you better have a few hours to read the 8 pages of links describing what you asked for:

http://www.rmef.org/SearchResults.aspx?Search=utah+projects

PS: That took me about one minute to find on the RMEF website. Do you think you could do that on the SFW site, LOL!

 

[Tristate]

Deerlove,

I guess RMEF can just pull stakes then because they sure get a boatload of money from us. I donate to two of their chapters here.

You really are a shortsighted bigot.

 

[TR175]

>I expected a lot of strong
>vocal opposition to my beliefs.
> No slander here, just
>an opinion. It has
>only been recently that some
>game management folks are starting
>to realize elk have a
>diverse impact on deer.
>For you doubters, before I
>even thought about elk in
>Utah because they were just
>starting to increase I talked
>to an Idaho game management
>person. His point being
>that as Idaho's elk herds
>started to increase, the deer
>herds started to decline. Why?
> He wasn't sure.
>Why do most of the
>Friends of the Pausaugunt want
>to see most of the
>elk kept to a real
>low number. Why did
>the quality of Elk Ridge
>mule deer start to decline
>when the elk started increasing.
> I would hate to
>see elk on the Henry
>Mountain. Wouldn't you?
>
> Where deer are more spread
>out I think they need
>more cover. Elk just
>move to the concentrated cover
>where ever it may be.
> Elk cover several miles,
>deer usual cover a mile
>or two. All in
>all in Utah elk are
>doing just fine, Deer are
>not.
>
>Don't tell me that predators just
>eat something else if deer
>and elk are not available.
> A rabbit or two
>wouldn't hold a cougar over
>for the winter. They
>would die or find their
>way to small town cats
>and dogs.
>
>Since we are being transparent could
>anybody tell me, in specifics,
>how much RMEF donated in
>Utah for wildlife during the
>last couple of years?
>
>I would love to see SFW
>more tranparent!!
>I think they would certainly put
>more money on the ground
>for deer than would RMEF.
> In other words, in
>case you haven't got it,
>the deer need our help,
>the elk do not.

Too late for that cannon, already elk on the Henry's.

 

[tx_packmule]

From a management standpoint you can't help all animals that directly compete with each other and elk can out-compete deer, it doesn't matter which org is attempting to do it.

 

[cannonball]

Yes they do. And????

My discussion is for Utah and deer vs elk.

By the way for the person who brought up elk being on the Henry Mountains. It was my understanding that the DWR wants them off that mountain. Is that not correct? If so I wonder why?

 

[sageadvice]

" It was my understanding that the DWR wants them off that mountain. Is that not correct? If so I wonder why?"


Because that's what they were told to say by SFW? ;-)

Joey


"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"

 

[elkfromabove]

>Yes they do. And????
>
>My discussion is for Utah and
>deer vs elk.
>
>By the way for the person
>who brought up elk being
>on the Henry Mountains.
>It was my understanding that
>the DWR wants them off
>that mountain. Is that
>not correct? If so
>I wonder why?

Maybe because they don't want them competing with the bison and they don't want any more hunters in that unit than necessary.

 

[cannonball]

Actually the wording they used was the other wildlife.

 

[TheDudeAbides]

I think people have to understand that right now it isn't RMEF vs SFW.

RMEF has moved on to other things and has left this fight.

It is the hunters of Utah vs SFW.

 

[Tristate]

Really? RMEF moved on????? That's why they were on TV talking trash.

 

[elks96]

What a laugh. do elk have some impact on deer? To a certain extent they do, but you are grabbing at straws. There are many factors effecting low deer numbers. But if elk are so hard on deer. Why is it that NW Colorado boasted some of the largest elk herds ever recored in North America and yet managed to still have some of the highest quality deer hunts around? According to your logic the largest Elk herd in North America should have all but wiped out the Deer herd, yet despite record numbers of elk we still host some of the best deer herds around. Surely this can not be true as the RMEF is an evil empire that will promote elk at the cost of everything else.

Prior to the 2007/2008 winter we had nearly 10 years of elk populations that were thousands of animals above objective but still had incredible deer herds. Sorry but your argument is ridiculous.

Hell if you want to look at numbers.... So far this last fall and winter on highway 13(Rifle Colorado to Wyoming), the Colorado Department of transportation has physically had to remove over 1400 deer off the highway. Those were deer left in the highway and creating a safety issue. that did not include the deer that made it to the roads edge, and did not include the deer that managed to limp off...

But to support your argument, I did see where the elk were shoving the deer onto the roads.

Yep Elk are causing the deer to die...

When will people people organize that Deer Lives Matter and begin a social movement to resist the evil bestowed upon the land by those evil water loving elk.

 

[Hawkeye]

The president of RMEF was contacted a reporter and asked specific questions, which he answered. Frankly, I respect Mr. Allen for doing that and wish all groups would stand up publicly and state their position on this issue.

This issue/problem is much bigger than the State of Utah rejecting RMEF's proposal. It was brewing long before RMEF expressed any interest in the latest 5-year contact and it will continue to fester long after RMEF moved on to better things. This is a Utah problem that will eventually have to be resolved by Utah sportsmen.

-Hawkeye-

 

[cannonball]

You can not compare Utah to Colorado. Just look at the land, road, and private vs public demographics. There is a lot of room out there for elk in Colorado of rough terrain and private sanctuaries.

Go back forty years in Idaho and do some checking. That was the time elk was on the rebound and introduction.

Poor little ol' Utah is a third desert void of many big game animals and then there is the roads. It looks like a fly trap accessible to most of the huntable area of the state.

How come some of the biologists are starting to see the relationship.