Resident PP update: 1-15
- Thread starter G14
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LAST EDITED ON Jan-15-13 AT 02:13PM (MST)[p]This is the link to his blog and I think he has kept it up to date. He had so many changes and incorrect statements about how the draw is run when he started out that it was ridiculous and still appears to be making some false statements about the random draw and money assumptions this Bill would make if its' passed. In effect, a NR with PPs that is drawn first could get a tag on his third choice before a guy with the same amount of PPs drawn subsequently could get the same tag as his first choice, which is pure BS!!! The same would go with the resident draw and it would be very similar to the way NM does it's random no PP system where a guy can get a tag on any of his choices if he gets drawn first before a guy gets his first choice if drawn after. It completely changes the entire draw system and would not make that much money, which his statement suggests. He toutes it as amoney maker, but recently admitted to us that he basicly: "wants to level the playing field for those with no PPs". However, the Bill appears to have sponsors and is supposed to be in a committee up there somewhere to be legalized and presented for adoption. He says he's a farmer and they also operate a part time outfitting business, the latter of which we all feel is the reason he's presenting this because it would help his industry get more hunters who don't have PPs.
http://www.drawalicensenow.blogspot.com/
http://www.drawalicensenow.blogspot.com/
I don't see where a bill is being considered to implement Strang's proposal.
http://legisweb.state.wy.us/2013/Index/subjectindex.pdf
http://legisweb.state.wy.us/2013/Index/subjectindex.pdf
BuzzH
Long Time Member
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Heres a list of the travel, recreation, wildlife, and cultural resource committee.
If you dont like the current legislation of sf0085, preference points, or want a different system...nows the time to get those emails out.
Phone calls as well.
[email protected] ([email protected]); [email protected] ([email protected]); [email protected] ([email protected]); [email protected] ([email protected]); [email protected] ([email protected]); [email protected] ([email protected]); [email protected] ([email protected]); [email protected] ([email protected]); [email protected] ([email protected]); [email protected] ([email protected]); [email protected] ([email protected]); [email protected] ([email protected]); [email protected] ([email protected]);
If you dont like the current legislation of sf0085, preference points, or want a different system...nows the time to get those emails out.
Phone calls as well.
[email protected] ([email protected]); [email protected] ([email protected]); [email protected] ([email protected]); [email protected] ([email protected]); [email protected] ([email protected]); [email protected] ([email protected]); [email protected] ([email protected]); [email protected] ([email protected]); [email protected] ([email protected]); [email protected] ([email protected]); [email protected] ([email protected]); [email protected] ([email protected]); [email protected] ([email protected]);
BuzzH
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 6,369
My letter...
Members of the Travel, Recreation, Wildlife, and Cultural Resources Committee,
I am writing this email in reference to SB SF0085, the big game preference point bill Introduced by Senator Larry Hicks.
I am in opposition to this bill.
First of all, many Resident hunters in Wyoming are not in favor of a point system and like the random draw process that is currently being utilized in Wyoming. It is hard to argue, that a random lottery is not the most fair way to distribute permits. Under the random system, every hunter has equal opportunity at the permits of their choice every single year. Nobody has an advantage over anyone else in a random drawing.
The intent of this bill is to create a "fair" system of allocating big-game tags, specifically deer, elk, and pronghorn tags. However, the only people that benefit under a preference point system are those that enter the drawing the initial year that these point systems are implemented. Those in the maximum point pools will see a benefit, those with less than maximum points will see their odds of drawing permits greatly diminished.
Currently, the Wyoming Game and Fish is spending money, time, and effort to recruit as well as maintain hunter numbers. A young hunter entering the draw 1+ years after the implemenation of a Preference Point System is facing incredibly bad, if not impossible draw odds in some of the best hunting units. I dont believe that, in a time when hunter recruitment is a priority, we create a point system that frustrates and/or eliminates them from equal opportunity at all hunting licenses.
As a hunter that participates in all types of preference systems in all the Western States, I can say that, preference point systems are a trap to hunters. They create situations of point creep, point building, etc. that actually REDUCE draw odds for even those with maximum points.
I highly encourage the Committee to not vote for this bill. It would be more prudent for the Committee to seek input from resident hunters whether they even want a preference system, or what type of system they prefer. Many states have adopted modified preference, bonus points, squaring bonus points, requiring 2-3 points, waiting periods, and even once-in-a-lifetime opportunities for the most desirable hunting permits.
There are many options that are not being explored, and I feel strongly that better legislation, based on feed-back from those being impacted (Resident hunters) is needed.
Lets revisit this with sound data at a later date rather than shove through vague and unclear Legislation that will negatively impact a majority of the hunting public. I strongly encourage the Committee to oppose SF0085.
Members of the Travel, Recreation, Wildlife, and Cultural Resources Committee,
I am writing this email in reference to SB SF0085, the big game preference point bill Introduced by Senator Larry Hicks.
I am in opposition to this bill.
First of all, many Resident hunters in Wyoming are not in favor of a point system and like the random draw process that is currently being utilized in Wyoming. It is hard to argue, that a random lottery is not the most fair way to distribute permits. Under the random system, every hunter has equal opportunity at the permits of their choice every single year. Nobody has an advantage over anyone else in a random drawing.
The intent of this bill is to create a "fair" system of allocating big-game tags, specifically deer, elk, and pronghorn tags. However, the only people that benefit under a preference point system are those that enter the drawing the initial year that these point systems are implemented. Those in the maximum point pools will see a benefit, those with less than maximum points will see their odds of drawing permits greatly diminished.
Currently, the Wyoming Game and Fish is spending money, time, and effort to recruit as well as maintain hunter numbers. A young hunter entering the draw 1+ years after the implemenation of a Preference Point System is facing incredibly bad, if not impossible draw odds in some of the best hunting units. I dont believe that, in a time when hunter recruitment is a priority, we create a point system that frustrates and/or eliminates them from equal opportunity at all hunting licenses.
As a hunter that participates in all types of preference systems in all the Western States, I can say that, preference point systems are a trap to hunters. They create situations of point creep, point building, etc. that actually REDUCE draw odds for even those with maximum points.
I highly encourage the Committee to not vote for this bill. It would be more prudent for the Committee to seek input from resident hunters whether they even want a preference system, or what type of system they prefer. Many states have adopted modified preference, bonus points, squaring bonus points, requiring 2-3 points, waiting periods, and even once-in-a-lifetime opportunities for the most desirable hunting permits.
There are many options that are not being explored, and I feel strongly that better legislation, based on feed-back from those being impacted (Resident hunters) is needed.
Lets revisit this with sound data at a later date rather than shove through vague and unclear Legislation that will negatively impact a majority of the hunting public. I strongly encourage the Committee to oppose SF0085.
Wouldn't you be better off to write to your individual senator instead of the committee since the bill is now on the general file to be read? (passed committee 5 votes to 0 for do-pass).
The amendment to the bill from committee is to change the PP fee from 10 to 20 dollars.
Seems to me that if a resident hunter is after a moderate draw area that a PP system is a decent deal. However, if you're after a premium tough-to-draw tag, then it definitely becomes more problematic. However, at <10% odds, you may never draw that tag anyway.
Sorry, not buying the youth recruitment argument. I take kids out hunting & their enjoyment is not based on an Area 100 elk tag.
The amendment to the bill from committee is to change the PP fee from 10 to 20 dollars.
Seems to me that if a resident hunter is after a moderate draw area that a PP system is a decent deal. However, if you're after a premium tough-to-draw tag, then it definitely becomes more problematic. However, at <10% odds, you may never draw that tag anyway.
Sorry, not buying the youth recruitment argument. I take kids out hunting & their enjoyment is not based on an Area 100 elk tag.
BuzzH
Long Time Member
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LAST EDITED ON Jan-16-13 AT 11:32AM (MST)[p]I emailed them all..., but its likely best to let those on the appropriate committee hear what you have to say.
All it takes is to get one to understand.
Also, if a resident hunter is after a moderate draw area, they get those without a point system now.
I personally dont give a chit what you're buying...the facts regarding how preference point systems impact youth hunters and those without max points speak for themselves. Check out the resident moose and sheep point pools for classic examples. Colorado, Utah, Arizona...the list goes on and on. I know how they work, and its not good for anyone but those with max points. Also, I'm not trying to sell you anything...shallow water...and shallow minds...typically freeze first. Apparently you dont understand the impacts of point systems, both good and bad.
I'm not saying a kid would be any happier with a unit 100 elk tag (which is a chit tag anyway), but why stack the deck against kids (or anyone else without max points) from having an equal shot at the tag?
BTW, a person cant send an email to your Senator and say, Preference point systems suck, dont vote for them. You have to support your position with valid points on who is going to be impacted by legislation. Its also smart business to offer up solutions.
Maybe someday you'll understand the basics.
All it takes is to get one to understand.
Also, if a resident hunter is after a moderate draw area, they get those without a point system now.
I personally dont give a chit what you're buying...the facts regarding how preference point systems impact youth hunters and those without max points speak for themselves. Check out the resident moose and sheep point pools for classic examples. Colorado, Utah, Arizona...the list goes on and on. I know how they work, and its not good for anyone but those with max points. Also, I'm not trying to sell you anything...shallow water...and shallow minds...typically freeze first. Apparently you dont understand the impacts of point systems, both good and bad.
I'm not saying a kid would be any happier with a unit 100 elk tag (which is a chit tag anyway), but why stack the deck against kids (or anyone else without max points) from having an equal shot at the tag?
BTW, a person cant send an email to your Senator and say, Preference point systems suck, dont vote for them. You have to support your position with valid points on who is going to be impacted by legislation. Its also smart business to offer up solutions.
Maybe someday you'll understand the basics.
I've already written a number of senators and my house rep since its senate bill. However, with your post, I picked out all the Travel house members except Jaggi since he's a co sponsor and just finished my last email asking for their support if it makes its way across their desk. How's that for doing nothing...
The bill probably won't pass, but the door is now open for future efforts which is the way a lot of bills eventually become law. Maybe the lottery bill will finally make it.
The bill probably won't pass, but the door is now open for future efforts which is the way a lot of bills eventually become law. Maybe the lottery bill will finally make it.
Gee, Buzz, you ever been called a narcissist?
I guess you allow people to have an opinion as long as it's the same as yours.....
Also, Buzz, do you think Wyo should do away with the 5 year waiting period after drawing a moose or sheep tag? That would give everyone an equal chance every year.
I guess you allow people to have an opinion as long as it's the same as yours.....
Also, Buzz, do you think Wyo should do away with the 5 year waiting period after drawing a moose or sheep tag? That would give everyone an equal chance every year.
BuzzH
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 6,369
LAST EDITED ON Jan-16-13 AT 01:21PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Jan-16-13 AT 01:14?PM (MST)
Teepee,
If all I cared about was myself, I'd be in favor of a preference point system. Its tough to get people to look down the road longer than 2 days though or to see associated problems.
Mark my words, if this PP chit passes, we'll be seeing epic whining about it from the people that draw early in the system, or those with youth hunters who are all but systematically denied an opportunity for many of the best areas under the point system. The same selfish old farts, like triple-bb, will then ask for the system to be changed so they can have a better chance in the random. That has/is already happening with sheep and moose to those guys that drew early on under the 75-25 split under preference. They finally woke up one day and found themselves 5-10 points behind max. They did the required third grade math and have calculated they'll never draw another tag, or be 90 years old before they do. So, true to form, these slack-jaws that already have sheep and moose...want the split to be 50-50 now to make the current 75-25 system "fair".
You call me selfish?
Laffin'...
Finally, no I dont think there should be a 5 year wait for moose and sheep, it should be once-in-a-lifetime...and should be applied retro-actively to anyone they have on record who has already killed sheep or moose.
That would be "fair"....
Oh, and how do you stop guys like me from applying my neighbors and non-hunting friends for points and applying as a party using their points? That is exactly what I'll be doing if this passes, I'll use the preference system to maximize my opportunities. Theres no ethical or legal reason why I shouldnt...preference systems are prime for the plucking for those with lots of non-hunting friends.
Like I say, from a strict standpoint of self-serving interests, I'd be pushing this thing and supporting it.
It will only mean more quality tags for me and screw everyone else.
If the dumb-bells supporting this pass it...I dont want to hear any complaining when guys like me use that system to draw quality tags at the expense of others. Because I'm going to do that...no question if this pile of chit passes.
You reap what you sow....
Teepee,
If all I cared about was myself, I'd be in favor of a preference point system. Its tough to get people to look down the road longer than 2 days though or to see associated problems.
Mark my words, if this PP chit passes, we'll be seeing epic whining about it from the people that draw early in the system, or those with youth hunters who are all but systematically denied an opportunity for many of the best areas under the point system. The same selfish old farts, like triple-bb, will then ask for the system to be changed so they can have a better chance in the random. That has/is already happening with sheep and moose to those guys that drew early on under the 75-25 split under preference. They finally woke up one day and found themselves 5-10 points behind max. They did the required third grade math and have calculated they'll never draw another tag, or be 90 years old before they do. So, true to form, these slack-jaws that already have sheep and moose...want the split to be 50-50 now to make the current 75-25 system "fair".
You call me selfish?
Laffin'...
Finally, no I dont think there should be a 5 year wait for moose and sheep, it should be once-in-a-lifetime...and should be applied retro-actively to anyone they have on record who has already killed sheep or moose.
That would be "fair"....
Oh, and how do you stop guys like me from applying my neighbors and non-hunting friends for points and applying as a party using their points? That is exactly what I'll be doing if this passes, I'll use the preference system to maximize my opportunities. Theres no ethical or legal reason why I shouldnt...preference systems are prime for the plucking for those with lots of non-hunting friends.
Like I say, from a strict standpoint of self-serving interests, I'd be pushing this thing and supporting it.
It will only mean more quality tags for me and screw everyone else.
If the dumb-bells supporting this pass it...I dont want to hear any complaining when guys like me use that system to draw quality tags at the expense of others. Because I'm going to do that...no question if this pile of chit passes.
You reap what you sow....
I hate to say it, but I have to agree with BuzzH on this one. It probably will never happen again, but he RIGHT!!!!
I find it funny they are all ready amending the cost of the preference points to $20 a piece. I understand it will cost $3 for the G&F to process the PP, so they are profiting $17.00 for everyone who buys a point, per species.
IT'S ALL ABOUT THE MONEY!!!!!
I find it funny they are all ready amending the cost of the preference points to $20 a piece. I understand it will cost $3 for the G&F to process the PP, so they are profiting $17.00 for everyone who buys a point, per species.
IT'S ALL ABOUT THE MONEY!!!!!
Wyoming Hunting Guides & Outfitters
Urge 2 Hunt
We focus on trophy elk, mule deer, antelope and moose hunts and take B&C bucks most years.
