Region W limited meeting update!

[elks96]

I never made the meeting due to snow and my wife getting called into the ER! Did anyone manage to attend? Or find the video?

I did some research and there is one guy who has been part of the Naggs mule deer group who should concern everyone both resident and NR!

Larry Hicks is on that group and has always wanted and support a total limited draw and PReference point system for everyone! He has some scary thoughts and has been a major push for a limited deer system for years!

Just a heads up! I sure hope WY residents realize the bum deal that the PP system is and continue to opt for opportunity for all and not just the old guys with the most points!

 

[jm77]

>
>Just a heads up! I sure
>hope WY residents realize the
>bum deal that the PP
>system is and continue to
>opt for opportunity for all
>and not just the old
>guys with the most points!
>

Let me help you here; I think you meant opportunity for those who draw the most tags.

 

[nontypical]

Uh...Wyoming doesn't have a point system for deer, elk, antelope. You know that, Elks96. Some of us "old guys" wouldn't mind being able to draw a decent tag before WE'RE TOO OLD TO HUNT anymore. Random draw doesn't work for me and many others. We draw nothing while others draw over and over and over. I'm not necessarily a big Larry Hicks fan, but I'm with him on this one.

 

[HiMtnHntr]

Oh no, here we go again....


I don't draw nuttin in the random either. And I don't apply for the best of the best. Come on 2017!

 

[gasman]

Im on the fence on this issue. I'd like to draw a good tag once in my life, and with a point system I think I probably will, once. With the random, even though my luck sucks, I have the same chance every year.

 

[lostinOregon]

As my dad told me over and over growing up, life isn't fair and you better get used to it. Either way, points or no points someone gets screwed.

I was researching this general area recently and the hunter numbers in 82 were astounding. With those number I understand why they are considering this.

Rich

 

[Conrad8899]

I here this from sum residents to. I never draw. Its not fair. I say to them. U want it like Colorado. 20 plus points to draw premium elk and deer tags. With the point creep every year.. Makes these a once in a life time tag.. Then they say. Well we still can hunt gen. Yes U can. Until there isn't any gen areas to hunt. Because G&F seams to make new draw units every year. At least U have a chance at a good tag every year. Hear in Wyoming....JMO

 

[sjhgraysage]

Conrad,
There are lots of points systems besides the Colorado model. I don't think anyone is proposing the adoption of the Colorado system.

In most of the others, even someone with 1 point has a chance of drawing and the longer you apply the better your chance of drawing.

I am not advocating for a point system for Wyoming residents, but I have points in the non-resident pool because that is the game that has been started.

 

[Conrad8899]

Just wondering. Whats Ur chances in the other draw systems. With one point. Drawing a tag that might take 10 points to draw. Probably not any better. Than what Wyoming resident have now... I move to Wyoming three years ago. Had 4 non resident points. Tried to draw a 3 point unit with my 4 points. Keep in mind the unit was 100 percent draw with 3 points. The year before and the year before. So just because U have the points. It no guarantee. All I am try in to say. Be care full what U wish for.. The grass isn't all ways greener on the other side. JMO

 

[sjhgraysage]

Again I'm not advocating for a point system.

I just think it is important to know how they work and what they may bring to the table.

I'll use an example from Utah: they split the tags 50/50 between the "Bonus" tag pool and the random draw pool. In 2016 for the Central Mountains Manti early any weapon bull elk hunt there were 7 tags in the non-resident bonus pool and 7 tags in the random pool. The bonus tags went to people with 16, 17, and 18 bonus points. The random tags went like this: one tag to someone with 15 points, 4 tags to people with 13 points, one tag to a person with 9 points and one tag to a person with zero points. That's right zero points. So while chances were not high for those with no points going in, one out of that group who applied with no points got a tag.

I live in WA we have a system that gives you more chances to be selected if you have more points by assigning you a number for each of your points so it is more like having your name in the hat more times, there fore anyone could draw, but I have better chance if I have been applying for the same limited tag for several years. I have drawn tags with less that max points several times.

I believe the system in Nevada is almost the same as Washington.

The system they started in Colorado is probably the least liked one in the US. Those with the most points are the only ones that can draw. I don't think that they had any idea it would become what it is today when they started it close to 30 years ago. Demand for quality hunting far out strips available opportunity.

 

[Conrad8899]

So what I said is correct then. U have no better of a chance. To draw a good tag. With other states draw system. Than U do here in Wyoming... One person with 0 points drew a tag. Every resident that draws a elk deer or antelope tag. Has zero points. And has absolutely no money invested in points. Can U imagine the cry in that would go on. If one of these resident had max points. And didn't draw there tag.... JMO

 

[Triple_BB]

Colorado's point system sucks. There are better points systems out there. And I'm a supporter of a modified system as well as leaving 40-50% of limited quota tags available via random draw. That takes the whiners out of the equation who say kids will never have a chance to draw. The other thing I hope is our elected officials ignore non-residents relating to anything dealing with resident points systems, tag quota's, limited quota areas, etc...

 

[dillon]

Wyoming has it made when it comes to states with awesome opportunities and quality animals.

I did like the Nevada system where points get squared and everyone has a chance to draw a tag. That said, I never drew an archery deer tag in three years of living there, but I drew one of the best antelope units in the state with only two points.

I hate the Utah system. I have 16 elk points and I fall further away from drawing every year.

I would vote to stay away from more draw units and keep the general season options open. I've hunted 82 twice now with friends and we found plenty of deer and avoided the crowd.

Dillon
www.dillonhoyt.com

 

[Conrad8899]

Dillon it sound like. U are not afraid of a little work......

 

[elks96]

>Uh...Wyoming doesn't have a point system
>for deer, elk, antelope. You
>know that, Elks96. Some of
>us "old guys" wouldn't mind
>being able to draw a
>decent tag before WE'RE TOO
>OLD TO HUNT anymore. Random
>draw doesn't work for me
>and many others. We draw
>nothing while others draw over
>and over and over. I'm
>not necessarily a big Larry
>Hicks fan, but I'm with
>him on this one.

Sorry but the points system does not mean you will get the tag while you can still hunt! There are guys in Colorado that die every year with 20 plus points. We are now at a point where even average units are taking years to draw.

Sorry but the old guys will not be given any preference at all. They will be in the same boat as everyone. If you live long enough and get in early enough then yes, but if you are already old you will not live long enough. Then add in the decrease in youth opportunity and it compounds an issue facing us as hunters! Like I said I saw the video from the Rawlins Meeting. Not a single person there other than the officers under 50 and most were over 60. Not that they are not important but what future do we have?

At any given time your best chance is on a random draw! Sorry but it is the best system there is....

 

[elks96]

>Wyoming has it made when it
>comes to states with awesome
>opportunities and quality animals.
>
>I did like the Nevada system
>where points get squared and
>everyone has a chance to
>draw a tag. That
>said, I never drew
>an archery deer tag in
>three years of living there,
> but I drew one
>of the best antelope units
>in the state with only
>two points.
>
>I hate the Utah system. I
>have 16 elk points and
>I fall further away from
>drawing every year.
>
>I would vote to stay away
>from more draw units and
>keep the general season options
>open. I've hunted 82
>twice now with friends and
>we found plenty of deer
>and avoided the crowd.
>
>Dillon
>www.dillonhoyt.com

Dillon,

I have never heard of a single person who is a WY transplant advocate for anything but the WY system. The random draw and General system is absolutely incredible. I have had many friends move to WY and they say it is by far the best system.

Having hunted 82 many times. 3 times with a Region W NR tag and many more with resident friends. I can say this, any place near a road is rough. Opening weekend is rough. But a little time and getting away from the truck and 82 has some of the best hunting. On my "general" tags, I have killed bucks over 190. A 182 buck and then a buck who was heavy and over 13 years old but not great score. I will admit that it takes work but this last season I left the truck at first light and hiked over 6 miles. Watched and heard a large 6x6 bull bugle all morning as I hiked up a mountain that had no one else on it. That day I ended up hiking 8 miles total never saw another person more than 200 yards from the road. I killed my 182 buck at about 2 in the afternoon. It took me until lunch the next day to finish the pack out and again on my 2 trips on Sunday, never saw a hunter more than 200 yards from the parking area.

Yes 82 is busy but a little work goes a long ways!

I would think that 82 could be really incredible if in a few areas they closed only a handful of roads creating little pockets of escape cover etc. We have this in CO and the hunting get really good. There is still enough road access for people to get around, but the road every 1/2 mile area is closed and it allows for some great areas to get out and work.

I am hoping they do not do more to force this... WY is like a house of cards right now. It can not take much more pressure to limit tags until the entire system caves!

 

[jm77]

With more and more advocates convincing WyG&F to turn general areas to LQ, PP will be the future for residents on elk, deer and antelope. Many PP supporters realize that EVERY applicant should have a realistic chance to draw every year. That is why the recent pushes for PP for residents has been a 50/50 blended system, with half the tags drawn with a random method.

The beauty of this system, is that while unsuccessful applicants build points, all tiers of point holders are reduced on the random side. Even with half of the tags going random, the vast majority of successful applicants will lose their points which makes the system work. Youth hunters overall actually draw more tags throughout their lifetime than with the conventional 100% random system.

Unfortunately NO SYSTEM guarantees a person can draw a tag in low percentage (under 20%) draw area. Coincidently, areas will have reduced draw odds in random systems and the so-called dreaded "point creep" with PP systems, when applicants increase, tags decrease or both. The opposite occurs when tags increase, applicants decrease or both.

One thing that can't be denied; tags are distributed more evenly, over a higher number of applicants with a PP system. There is one thing that is "fair"; the first year of a random system. Anyone that thinks otherwise would be a lousy chess player, no offense meant.

By the way, I am a strong advocate to keep general areas in place in Wyoming. As a member of the Area 66 Mule Deer Group in Casper, I voted with every member to initiate habitat improvements, monitor deer classifications, promote measures to get local elk herds to objective, increase predator control and keep area 66 general to promote opportunity in Central Wyoming.

 

[JakeSwensen]

*Preference points-
The people with the highest points going into the draw will be drawn first if there are tags remaining they go to the next highest point holders.

*Bonus points-
Each bonus point puts your name in the drawing one extra time.

I like the system the way it is but I would be okay with bonus points.
I am completely against preference points.

It eliminates kids and new hunters from opportunities at the best tags. I think it's good to have a little luck involved.

Good luck and Happy Hunting in 2017.


[font face="verdana" color="green"]
Jake Swensen

 

[nontypical]

LAST EDITED ON Jan-04-17 AT 03:15PM (MST)[p]I would submit a couple of points here. Elks96, your kids have 50+ yrs ahead of them to hunt. At 65, I have 5-10? That's if I remain in suitable health. Like you, I cannot go where I once did. I have adjusted to that, like you. We each have our own agenda. You can call that self-serving, selfish; whatever. Every single post on this thread has self-serving agendas.

The reason most Wyoming transplants prefer Wyoming's draw system is because it beats the crap out of where they came from. That's because where they came from once had the same or similar general hunt systems, AND THEY DON'T WORK ANYMORE BECAUSE THERE'S TOO MANY HUNTERS.

Residents want better hunting with less crowding. Regions G&H reduced nonresident tags in recent years because of this. Still too many people out there hunting, say many. What's next? Either eliminate nonresidents or curtail resident hunter numbers. We all know there will likely not be more nonresident hunt tag decreases. "But I want to hunt every year!" cry many.

Guess what? Times change. Deer numbers are down, yet hunter numbers( especially resident) remain fairly stable; if not increasing. Much to your and my chagrin, there's only one way to address that: reduce hunter numbers.

I see it now; I've seen it slowly transpire over the past 35 or so years. Much like Utah's hunting decades ago, unlimited hunting slowly reduces an already decreasing number of deer. If WGFD is not pro-active on this issue, our deer hunting here will be in such a sorry state it will take years( if not decades) to recover. Kudos to them for finally listening to the public and hopefully looking into the future.

Does this ring a bell to you old-timer Utah hunters?

I would further add that since Wyoming's population is barely over 500,00, LQ will not mean you will never draw another tag. It will, however, spread hunters out so that a better quality hunt can be had by all. Of course, the most popular units will be hard to draw, but draw odds will go through the roof in the present LQ units that currently have horrible draw odds. There are many other tweaks that G&F could also do here.

I am not necessarily in favor of a point system; but something needs to be done to curtail over-crowding. I like what they are proposing in 82 and 100...it's a start. Other reasonable options would be to have residents choose a region when they purchase a license, split seasons everywhere, and maybe a staggered draw. Although I don't think that you can reasonably compare Colorado to Wyoming( or any other states for that matter), many Colorado hunters like their system because they can hunt 2nd choice units while acquiring points for the better units, still giving them hunt opportunity. That includes you, Elks96. Not picking on you; just sayin'.

I photograph and video every single winter on the winter ranges here in SW Wy. Been doing that for almost 30 years. The difference between now and 35 years ago is quite simply...amazing. The last few years have been very sobering...I suspect we are seeing the beginning of the end of G&H huge buck hunting. I hope I'm wrong...

Let's do something about it before it's too late.