Reasonable cost hunting!

[sageadvice]

To me, it's a very sad day indeed when a few can say and truly believe that they are more important and more deserving of good hunting than the average hunter who works for a living, provides a important public service, raises a family, and tries to provide for their future.

I've never begrudged those that pay for high dollar hunts. Then again, i've not seen any of these hunters come on here before and brag of how smart, rich, and deserving, that they are and basically, how the "lame" of us regular Joes should just be happy with what's left after they're done.

Us regular Joes outnumber these fat cats! Maybe it time we vote their conceited, snob nosed a$$es right off their high horses and put them down to our level where they belong. We all put our pants on the same way, one leg at a time!

Naw, it's really only a few who are doing this gar mouthing. Most of the high dollar guys i know really are great people. You'd not know that they were that well off, and the moneys they spend on hunting do, in a lot of cases, help our wildlife programs. It's too bad when the actions of a few though, have effectively made a whole group of other affluent hunters look bad. It's a sad day, one that i knew was getting here, sooner or later, but one that i didn't ever care to see!

Joey

 

[cbeard]

Joey it has been my experience(and yours too I'm sure) that there are rich guys who are arrogant egotists and "regular" guys who are jealous whiners in all walks of life.It's my belief that if those same rich guys were suddenly poor they would become jealous whiners and if those same "regular" guys were suddenly rich they would become arrogant egotists.

BUT thankfully there are plenty of good guys in both camps too!!A man's character has no relation to the size of his wallet,big or small....

 

[sageadvice]

LAST EDITED ON Mar-16-10 AT 04:28PM (MST)[p]Thanks CBeard, truly words of wisdom. I got on a rant there and couldn't get off it. This, below, was more my intent when i started this thread. JC

I'm only in my mid 50's so there's guys here that made cheaper hunts than those outa state trips i started making in the mid to late 70's when i got outa school.

Back then, i remember going from Kali for a two week hunt to Colo, buying a over the counter muley tag, staying in a motel, eating a good breakfast and dinner every night in a Gunnison cafe, and splitting the gas costs with one other guy. Made the whole trip on less than $1000.

Joey

 

[Wiszard]

Hunting in general is going up and up. Tags do not decrease in price nor does hotels, restaurant prices, or food at a grocery store. Gas on the, otherhand, does fluctuate but that is neither here nor there cuz it's not like it was back in the 80's or 90's. I think the older I get, I spend less and less on kids stuff so that leaves more for hunting. Although, I still have 3 more kids that will need cars over the next 7 years! I'll always hunt no matter what the cost. Maybe it will just be a local hunt here in Ca because that is the cheapest but I will be hunting.

Steve

 

[eelgrass]

Last I checked this is still the United States. The wildlife belongs to all the people, not just the rich people. There are folks who would like to change that I'm sure.

If the rich man ever gets complete control over our wildlife, it's going to be a big challenge for them because I will just go out and poach. I've always wanted to shoot a $100,000 deer.

There is a little lake in the Marble Mountain Wilderness here in Kali. It's called Hooligan Lake. There is no trail to the lake. You have to bush wack your way in and out. The only way to get a horse into it would be to cut him up into small enough pieces and carry him in on your back.

My point is, the lake belongs to all of us. Everybody can have the lake, but nobody can own it. Rich or poor. And everybody, rich or poor has to earn it. No shortcuts.

I love that lake, and what it stands for.

Eel

 

[sageadvice]

+1 Eel, Very Nice!!

Joey

 

[HunterHarry]

I'm a lowly grocery store employee.

I struggle to achieve exceptional outdoor experiences with my son.

I cannot afford guided hunts any more.
I CAN and do expect to have tremendous hunting and fishing trips until my dying day through drawing tags, hard work, perseverance and finding a way.

I too envy the guys travelling all over the world hunting and fishing.
I've got no one to blame for not being wealthy but myself.

"Average effort nets average results" were words of wisdom that my dad instilled in me at a young age.

Some get breaks in life, that's just the way it is.
Many others get what is envied through long hours and a lifetime of dedication.

If you want something bad enough and are willing to do the work necessary to achieve it, it will be yours.
HH

 

[1911]

Good observation HH. Another thing to keep in perspective before anyone gets too caught up in the whole class warfare thing that seems to be the trend as of late. If you are reading these threads, and posting, that probably means you are living in a home with internet which means you probably own a computer, probably have electricity, running water, ect., ect. On a global scale that means you are filthy rich compared to the vast majority of the world population.

Keep things in perspective and keep it real. The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. Your side might be greener to someone else. A great deal of the world does not spend much time worried about hunting in the sense that we do. They worry about feeding the family each day.

 

[sageadvice]

Good observation 1911! Your opinion on this thread is also welcome.

By the way, probably being a "bottom feeder" yourself how many auction tags have you been able to buy lately?

I won't accept being called that to my face by any man! I will never accept it, and may well bust someones face for their efforts. It's simply not a way to measure one's worth!

Joey

 

[southslope82]

Thanks for looking at the glass 1/2 full 1911
Sometimes all the negative outlooks on here start to weigh on me. I have to admit I am very fortunate compared to the vast majority of the world. I am thankful to have an opportunnity to hunt and fish at all. I have some friends that are dis abled and even handi cap. They will never even have the chance to go experience a hunt or hike or a fishing trip, or pick up shed antlers, to the same degree that I can ever in their lifes.

I am grateful to have my health and sometimes it drives me even farther into the hills or wakes me up earlier or whatever it might be. Just for the simple fact that I try not to take what I have for grantide, There are so many people that would kill to even have the opprotunity to go do what we can do on a daily basis, simple things like walking, being able to see or hear, or just going to the simple tasks on their own.

I have had some awesome hunting with just general tags, With hard work, persistance, patience, and luck I have taken what I consider trophies on OTC Tags ranging from Turkeys,Several Nice Muley Bucks, Elk Bull and Cow, Antelope, Bear, and Mt.lion. Not to mention all the small game. So before people get to carried away with what they don't have. Sometimes sit back and look at what you do have.

 

[gb22]

I've spent a lifetime WORKING for those same quality experiences and agree we should be grateful for the opportunities. I am.

HOWEVER, I'd like my young son and my grandkids (yes, both) to have the opportunity to hunt....even if they aren't RICH! The appreciation for the outdoors and for the self-reliance that is part and parcel, is something I learned from my dad.....learned to LOVE. My son and grandson are learning to love it, too...we have some special experiences while hunting and fishing.

WE need to be VERY careful to pass on the ability to have those experiences. Part of the danger is PETA. Part of the danger is the money that so many "special" groups use to provide themselves something unavailable to the next guy.


Within the shadows, go quietly.

 

[tylercreek2]

it aint about the money,,,,,,,, those that think it is just dont get it,,,,, with that being said any of you ever figure out how much per ounce dove meat costs per season? LOL

 

[AWHOLELOTTABULL]

HH - Your comment "If you want something bad enough and are willing to do the work necessary to achieve it, it will be yours" is exactly the words of wisdom my Dad used to tell me and it's the same words I pass on to my kids. I'm in my mid 40's and I'm at the point in my life where I don't care if I kill another animal as long as I can hunt along side my kids while they do. I have worked hard through life to this point to provide quality hunting experiences for me and my kids and I too plan on doing that same thing until I can't get around anymore.

Sage - you just have to ignore the arrogance. Unfortunately we will always have to ignore the arrogance. I have had one rich guy in camp that was arrogant like that. I won't ever have him back in my camp again. It just wasn't any fun.

It's always an adventure!!!
www.awholelottabull.com

 

[sageadvice]

Hey i've had it great, no regrets. Big money has effected my hunts very little. I've been at it a long time and killed way more than my share of trophy bucks. That said, this post is about the Future of which i'll be very little part of. It's now a time where the wealthy are actually feeling as if they deserve more, are demanding more, as if it's rightfully their due. In the end, it's al;l about the future of our sport and the direction i see it headed... so this thread.

I remember when i saw the first coyote on my Grandfathers ranch. I'd hunted hard for many years and then one day, there it was. No need to tell you how many followed, the place got over run with them and the deer suffered greatly. Now, i'm, seeing the wealthy hunter come out of the masses and demand his felt needed compensation for the price he's willing to pay to hunt the biggest and best trophy animals that this country has to offer.

I don't know why i do but i put these new found outspoken wealthy hunters in the same group as i should have put that very first coyote that i saw on our place so many years ago.

Bull, Thanks for the advice!!

Joey

 

[gb22]

Joey,

I think that's a pretty good comparison!


Within the shadows, go quietly.

 

[nickman]

My only issue, is with the fact that too many state wildlife agencies are playing fast and loose with the available game populations that belong to ALL Americns, regardless of wealth.

I don't have a single problem with my friends who go hunting all over the country ...or out of it, hire a guide and hunt some private club.

When the "state" limits MY ability to hunt by providing high dollar tags, at the expense of regular tags.....then I get urinated.

I have a dozen friends that make several very expensive hunting trips a year, but they ALL have a sense of fair play and I know they don't buy anything out from under us regular guys. I even get to ride along once in a while.

They have bought auction tags here in Ca, but there has never been more than 10 auction tags for the whole season, so it's not an epidemic here.

They belong to Country Clubs that I cannot even buy a soda in, but they aren't rude about it. It's just the way it is.

I do my best with what I have and I damn sure don't have to look far in this world to find someone way worse off than me.

 

[never_catch]

Some excellent points you guys have made and all I'd really like to add is I don't think it's just the rich people that have different perceptions...differences in age, race, social and economic classes, ethnic heritage, religion, gender, access to education, physical ability, and many many other variables contribute in how we all perceive similar information differently...and last time I checked there's more diversity in the country now then there's ever been...IMHO I think this is why there's so damn much conflict on here at times lol!! How easy is it to confuse verbal and nonverbal communication on the internet vs a face to face conversation??

I believe the vast majority of us on MM are all pretty much on the same page though...we wanna hunt, look at boobs, drink beer, and HUNT!!

~Z~

 

[PleaseDear]

+1 cbeard

'Joey it has been my experience(and yours too I'm sure) that there are rich guys who are arrogant egotists and "regular" guys who are jealous whiners in all walks of life.It's my belief that if those same rich guys were suddenly poor they would become jealous whiners and if those same "regular" guys were suddenly rich they would become arrogant egotists.'

Robb

 

[logslinger]

Joey I usually try to stay out of things like this but of late it is awfully hard to sit back and be called a dredge on society and not take offense.In my opinion the wealthy hunter worked hard,made good choices in life and were blessed to be able to buy these tags. It's not their fault that they are for sale,it is the narrow minds of the State to come up with alternate sources of income to solve the financial needs of wildlife management. If the state could pass a law that 1/8 of one 1% tax on sales were earmarked for wildlife management then you wouldn't need to have the greedy SFW consultants, wealthy sportsman and their dollars to save our public wildlife.Then you could have wildlife managers doing the managing and the special interest groups would not be needed or wanted in a state. Someone wanting to hunt should never be called a whiner or a socialist because they want the state to do its part not just cater to the demands of the wealthy.

 

[cowboy57]

i too in my 50,s now,started huntin out of state in 78,cost me a little over 300 for tags,gas and food for that trip.now am looking for guns for grandkids to start hunting.everything keeps going up and up and up except my d###.i want them to have the same hunts i did.but huntin in kali like i do,when you go out of state you love what that state has to offer in hunting there.

 

[jethro]

The future of hunting is being driven by the almighty dollar. Whether it is Limited entry trophy hunts to CWMU areas or once in a life time tag. The train wreck that I see coming, is that there will be a day when the average "joe" will no longer be able to afford the cost. So with great regret he will not be able to take his children and or grandchildren hunting the way that he would like to. So he does what he can (which is less than what his dad done for him) and so it goes soon there is no more stories about the hunt unless is one about having a place to hunt. And then one day a activist shows up at his door and starts to ask questions about his feelings for hunting. He tells them that he used to hunt and can't afford it or that there is no place to go cause of all the limited areas that take a life time to draw or everything is in CWMU. The activist asks if he would like to sign a patition to close hunting to everyone. so why not i cant hunt what does it matter to me anyway. Now armed with a list of hunts names there goes the future of hunting. Maybe not in 5 years or ten but I see it coming

 

[feddoc]

I have often thought what it would be like to go on a guided hunt into an LE area. Probably not for me, not so much because of the money, but, because I would miss out on all the regulars who hunt in my area. Shoot, I hunted with their dads and grandpas in some cases. We are almost like family and I know I could count on them for darn near anything. Nope, I think I will stick with my same area. It doesn't produce the trophy bucks or bulls, but, it does still manage to produce it's own share of good memories.





Compromise, hell! ... If freedom is right and tyranny is wrong, why should those who believe in freedom treat it as if it were a roll of bologna to be bartered a slice at a time?

 

[sageadvice]

I see a lot of thoughts in common in the above posts and there are a few ideas for thought as well, Thank You. In my own state of Calif, i don't believe we'll be hunting as we know it in as few as 10 years. I'm hoping so but we'll just have to see. Some of the other states out there will probably last longer but i really don't believe that any of our Western States are completely free of what i see as the three most dangerous eroding factors that do exist and continue to grow...Big money hunting organizations, reduced game animals, and anti-hunting voters.

Those ol boys that believe that their current hunts and family get together's out in the woods, will go on forever or for generations without detrimental change, i believe, need to pull their head out of the sand and pay attention. Things are changing direction fast. As i said, i probably should have shot that very first coyote while i had the chance but that is hindsight. Right now, the last few years, and the few years to come, as i see it, are a crucial time for us good ol boy hunters that wish for our hunting heritage to continue.

Another thought for discussion; Why are we not seeing any or more support from the manufactures of some of the big dollar equipment that we buy? Rifles, shotguns, optics, ammo producers,.. seems that they would have a major concern in our plight to battle the antis. Maybe they already are pouring in funds to our cause but i'm just not seeing it.

Thoughts and comments welcome!
Joey

 

[nickman]

Joey,

I have posted this before, but maybe it wasn't as important to THAT discussion as it is to this one.

It is all about the money. They call it marketing strategy.

Most of the "sporting goods" manufacturers are a small part of giant corporations. They will continue to provide what we need until it is no longer profitable and then they will absorb the loss thru other divisions of the corporation.

The best example is Federal Cartridge. Their parent corporation is so large that the entire line of ammunition makes up about 8% of their program.

They have a HUGE stack of Govt contracts, from submarines to robotic aircraft.......an 8% loss can be spread out instantly.

Most gun companies, especially foriegn ones, have military contracts that will allow them to lose "sporting arms" sales with little or no profit loss.

Sure, there are many companies that have all their eggs in the hunting related basket and they are definately going to lose if and when we see the end of hunting as we know it.

The "big guys" really don't care all that much. They are like ticks, when this dog dies, they will just find another ride.

 

[sageadvice]

Nickman, believe it or not, i did/do remember you posting exactly about this in the past. I think you are correct but i don't like it Seems to me, that alot of the people that own these corporations are fellow hunters and have their own concerns of the future of hunting and couldn't help but want to get involved and help in any way that they could...

Alas, what i or you want, often is not how it is. I guess that's what worries me. Thanks!!

Joey

 

[B_BOP_A_LU_LU]

So sage?
On Post # 8,what's this 'bottom feeder' remark about?
Just wondering?

 

[sageadvice]

"So sage?
On Post # 8,what's this 'bottom feeder' remark about?
Just wondering?"

Just a term and attitude that has been used here recently by others with financial means, to describe us regular guys that have to work for a living, put in for the draws to be able to hunt limited entry areas, and can't afford to simply buy auction tags where ever we choose.

I don't care to being labeled like that Bessy, That's part of the reason for this entire thread!!!

Joey

 

[B_BOP_A_LU_LU]

Well sage,
I guess I missed that part?
Just couldn't quite figure out what you were trying to say?
So I guess us Poorboys have been called 'bottom feeders'?
Guess I missed it?

 

[sageadvice]

LAST EDITED ON Mar-18-10 AT 08:34PM (MST)[p]Not sure but i believe some of it has been deleted. Up on #18, logslinger also refers to the comments that were made by saying,

" ...things like this but of late it is awfully hard to sit back and be called a dredge on society and not take offense."

Some have suggested that all tags should be auction tags and go to the highest bidder. WTF?

Others have suggested that because they have money, they deserve better hunting! It goes on and on, more so lately than i've ever seen before and i for one, others above agree also, do not at all care for this current trend!

Joey

 

[txjp]

The ones calling for all tags to be auction tags better watch what they ask for.

THERE IS ALWAYS SOMEONE WITH MORE MONEY!!


unless it is Ophra secretly on MM

 

[2lumpy]

His poor boy, my three poor boys, and their poor boys are going to be hunting in ten years and still in twenty. We're going to keep pushing back against anything we think is threatening the hunting culture. We'll support those that protect it and do all we can to frustrate those that try to stop it. Strong, surplus herds that require hunter harvest is what we think are the key to hunting survival. Zoo's don't need hunters. Federal lands with thriving herds need hunting.

We like to golf, skiing, travel, own cool vehicles, watch large wide screen TVs, living in fancy homes with plush furniture but we don't. We hunt, it takes all the money we can scratch up to hunt, we think its a great life style. You don't have those quality personal experiences with wildlife setting at a computer, man I was glad to get out today and get a little sun and push around a few of our outdoor tools, come on spring break-up.

Rich or poor, your welcome in my camp as long we're all outdoorsmen. We all got skin in the game. We all can help or harm, lets all help!

Long live wild game!

DC

 

[2lumpy]

This poor boy, my three poor boys, and their poor boys are going to be hunting in ten years and still in twenty. We're going to keep pushing back against anything we think is threatening the hunting culture. We'll support those that protect it and do all we can to frustrate those that try to stop it. Strong, surplus herds that require hunter harvest is what we think are the key to hunting survival. Zoo's don't need hunters. Federal lands with thriving herds need hunting.
We like to golf, skiing, travel, own cool vehicles, watch large wide screen TVs, living in fancy homes with plush furniture but we don't. We hunt, it takes all the money we can scratch up to hunt, we think its a great life style. You don't have those quality personal experiences with wildlife setting at a computer, man I was glad to get out today and get a little sun and push around a few of our outdoor tools, come on spring break-up.

Rich or poor, your welcome in my camp as long we're all outdoorsmen. We all got skin in the game. We all can help or harm, lets all help!

Long live wild game!

DC