RE: Hunter Ethics

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RE: Hunter Ethics

This has been the topic of discussion here at work lately. What would everyone else do if you were in this situation? Say you accidently shot a branch antlered bull in a spike bull unit. Would you turn yourself in and trust that the dwr would understand the situation or would you take your chances and kick it under a tree? Has anyone been in this situation and turned yourself in and felt like they really screwed you over.
 
RE: Hunter Ethics

I have never been in that situation, but I can not stand to let an animal go to waste. I would gut the animal and then report it and take my lumps.

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
 
RE: Hunter Ethics

Kingfish, We kind of thought people would look at it that way, but that is not the case. The question was asked based on hearing stories of other people turning there self in and really getting hammered.
 
RE: Hunter Ethics

a couple years ago i watched a 10 year old kid shoot his first elk on a cow hunt in Az. turned out it was a spike with both antlers broken off at the bases. and along came a bunnypig and confiscated it and gave the 10 year old a ticket a mile long. we had a cow in the back of the truck that another guy had killed and took it to a check point so the wardens could weigh it. i told a warden i knew there about the situation and he drove over, pulled rank, and gave the kid back his elk and voided the citation. i watched the kid shoot the elk. looked like a cow to me. and the law says antlerless. the moron warden said that because the letter of the law said if the antler could be shed it was an antler. that was the basis for his "reasoning". poor kid was terrified and i doubt he'll ever hunt again. probably lost us another ally. quite a tramatic deal to happen the first time you go hunting. i know this isn't exactly the same situation, but when you're giving yourself up to the discretion of someone trained that everyone is an outlaw, they just haven't been caught yet, you best be careful.
 
RE: Hunter Ethics

LAST EDITED ON Feb-11-04 AT 03:09PM (MST)[p] Great Story,RLH!
Two of my brothers are cops,and it drives them nuts to see normally decent honest people hammered by young cops without much life experience!
Sh!t Happens!
Though most of us here won't fess up to it in a public forum,I'll bet a lot of us have ben in bad situations,where we could get in trouble by a nit picky warden! (ever accidentally punch out the wrong day on a tag?) etc...etc...etc..
 
RE: Hunter Ethics

I was in a similar situation this year. I shot a spike elk at about 400 yds. I had a cow tag. All of the other elk in the bunch (about 15) were cows, and this was the last elk as the others went over the ridge. I was watching this elk for about 30 seconds and waiting for a shot cause they were on a burned ridge with all of the trees and scrub brush dead but still standing. I shot the elk and he stopped, and I shot again and he went down. I didn't know it was a spike until I got up on him. He spikes weren't much bigger than his ears; they probably extended past his ears 2-3 inches. He was also slightly quartering away from me. I tried to figure out how I missed that, and I figured his spikes were lined up with his ears. I felt horrible at the situation and I didn't know what to do. We killed a cow the day before, and there were elk everywhere where we were hunting, so I could have just waited. I didn't shoot this elk knowing it was a bull just so I could fill out my tag. We decided it was an honest mistake, and we gut, quartered, and packed the animal back to camp. Then I drove it home after we unloaded the horses. My family has hunted this area for nearly 70 years and we don't do this kind of stuff. IMHO, it was an honest mistake. The elk went to good use.
 
RE: Hunter Ethics

I have a good friend that shot clear thru a 6x6 bull with a 45 muzz and killed a 5x5 that was behind a juniper behind the 6x6. He was in NM and called the F&G and they came out and after alot of seesawing back and forth they took the 5x5 but didn't cite him. They were convinced it was an honest mistake.

JB
 
RE: Hunter Ethics

so the moral is do what you want and have a good story to cover it up and hope you get an old warden who doesnt want to do any paperwork so he can let you off and deal with any guilty pangs later on ?

If it happened to me I would do the same as the guy who contaced the F&G department and deal with whatever happens and I know alot of you fathers out there are teaching your sons and daughters the same kind of respect and responsibility right ? right ?
 
RE: Hunter Ethics

shooting a branch antlered bull in a spike season is a little different than what i was talking about. (where do they have spike seasons at anyway?) but in the case where the 10 year old shot the elk, the kid didn't do anything wrong. he had a tag that said he could shoot any antlerless elk. didn't say to look between it's hind legs. there are a lot of bull calves that get shot on the same hunt. he shot this elk out of a bunch of antlerless elk. the game warden, actually, wardens before it was over with, were friggin' jerks. i've been on more elk hunts and hauled out more elk than i can even begin to remember or count. got quite a bit of experience in the woods. in fact, mountains of it. looked like a cow to me. one antler was broke off under the pedicle, the other had the burr left. that's it. nothing even close to as high as the hair on it's forehead. i'm glad the "old game warden" was around. saved everybody a lot of money. because there ain't no way the state woulda won in court anyway. saved the kids dad a pile, and hopefully saved a future hunter. there was no intent to break the law. and in game violations, intent is what gets you hammered. and rightfully so. beatin' up on a 10 year old doesn't accomplish anything.
 
RE: Hunter Ethics

Kingfish, That happens to be a different person that posted message #6. Someone asked the question about where there is spike only units? This happens to be in utah. These are some great stories. I know a guy that shot a three point bull accidently on a spike unit last year. It cost him close to $1,000. What do you think, to much or not enough?
 
RE: Hunter Ethics

report it. if it was an honest mistake it wont hurt you in the future. although you may get roughed up by game and fish, eventually it will all even out in some way.
nk
 
RE: Hunter Ethics

I have a friend who shot what he thought was a spike bull on a spike only unit. The shot was about 200 yds, when he got to the elk it had little eye guards on each side, that you could not have seen from fifty yards. Being the ethical hunter he is, he turned himself in to the local game warden. Even after he told the warden his story he took the elk and issued him a ticket anyway. He told the guy he should of been sure of his target and ignorence is no excuse. When he went to court he told the judge his story,and showed him a picture of the elk. The judge couldn't believe he was even issued a ticket and threw the case out. When I asked him if he would turn his self in again and go through all that crap, his reply was, "HELL NO"!!! I believe that the warden here was the ignorant one. Would I turn myself in, MAYBE.
 
RE: Hunter Ethics

If you are not smart enough to be 100% sure of your target then you are endangering too many things and you have no business hunting. I could see 1/4" antlers at 500 yards and I am as blind as a bat, so that is just an ignorant excuse.
 
RE: Hunter Ethics

If you are that blind, you probably shoudn't be hunting. No one can see a 1/4" horn at 500 yards. I don't think you can even count that as a horn. I would call that a bump. I am assuming that you are a young dumb kid so I won't hammer on you to hard.
 
RE: Hunter Ethics no brainer

This is not a discussion. This is a no brainer. If u don't turn yourself in and get caught. You will wish u did. Didn't your momma teach u the two things in life are 1 right and 2 wrong. If you don't have more respect fot the elk then to throw it under a tree. Then u are a disgrace to yourself, wildlife, and to the hunter. Chances are if u turn your self in u get to keep the elk and pay a small fine. If u throw it under a tree it is wantful distruction. big fine, loss of hunting rights, loss of your equipment, and jail. And u are a slob hunter.
I know a guy who shot a cow turned himself in and well paid a fine. He is hunting. I know a guy who shot a bull in a limited area who thought it was open area. He didn't turn himself in. Well he still isn't hunting and won't be for 5 more years in 5 states.
 
RE: Hunter Ethics no brainer

rutnbuck, learn how to spell and maybe then you will be taken
seriously.
 
RE: Outfitter Ethics

Anybody out there had any problems with hunting outfitters? Especially form Southeast Colorado? I am looking for anybody that can help me figure put how to get my money or service out of this crook that called himself a hunting guide. I have exhausted all avenues through the State of Colorado. Just before coming out more money and flying up there to pay him a visit.I will gladly give his name out to avoid anybody from doing business with him. I want to put the word out. Be careful!
 
RE: Outfitter Ethics

Let us have it! What were the particulars of the dissatisfaction??
 
RE: Outfitter Ethics

Bottom line the guy is a lying cheating crook. I along with several others have been taken for a ride by this guy. So I found out via the Colorado Guide and Outfitters Association. I paid for services that I never recieved. I booked two archery elk hunts with Bob Parker. Formally dba R&J Outfitters. He had his license pulled by State of Colorado for scrupulous activities. He tried to stiff me for more money after we had entered into contracts for a set price. Of course I refused. Then he switched my dates to the last few days of season and tried to cut me short to 2-1/2 days of hunting down from five. So he supposedly penciled me in for the next year. Then when time came for me to arrive he lied about his guides being in Alaska hunting moose and he didnt have any one to guide us. When they were in fact in New Mexico guiding elk hunters! ???????? Can you believe it? My buddy( that was guiding for another outfiter in the area) saw his son, Robbie Parker in a town down in New Mexico the day after I was originally to start hunting. He had met him at an RMEF banquet. He called me to see where I was to let me know about seeing "my guides but not seeing me". I then called Parker furious and his (the elder) wife answered and confirmed, and I quote " No, they are guiding in New Mexico". Busted. He wouldnt return any of my calls or letters from that point.
He wont refund my money nor will he fulfill his obligations to provide service. I have tried in evey way to resolve it even offered to take lesser hunts like antelope hunts! The game and fish cant do anything because he has had his license pulled. His son opened a guide service but wont honor any obligations his dad had. Even after the elder said all of his trips would be taken over by the son due to him closing his business due declining health. Dangers of the screwing people can be hazardous to his health I guess.

If you will scratch around on the state of Colorado's game and fish web page you can find such info on outfitter before you book. Now I know there are very reputable outfitters committed to their clients and obligations. I have hunted with several in New Mexico,Canada,and Alaska. If I cant do anything else I want to put the word out on this whole group up there known as the Parkers. Anybody with suggestions or info feel free to e-mail me directly [email protected]
 
RE: Outfitter Ethics

You're breaking my heart RD. I do have a pair of binoculars. They are 8 power Bushnells. What kind do you have? I thought you said you were blind! If so, maybe you shouldn't even be in the field!
 
RE: Outfitter Ethics

If you had the best optics there is (Swarovski's) you couldn't see a quarter inch bump on a horn at 500 yards. I had an experience a few years back on one of our great spike only elk units. It was early morning on the 3rd day of the hunt and I spotted some elk way off in the distance and stalked to within 300 yards. I sat there and watched them for about an hour and determined there were five bulls in the bunch and only one spike using the best optics there is. After blowing it over I went over there and it had a little quarter inch bump off one of its 20 inch spikes. Naturally, I was really upset about it. But then I got thinking about our great DWR and how stupid this spike only thing is anyway because it should be yearling bull only because its alot easier to tell the difference. So I just made a decision to take a rock and whacked that little bump off and rubbed it in the dirt. It filled the freezer and was alot less hassle then trying to explain things to a game warden on a power trip! Wouldn't it make more sense to have the law read yearling bull only then there would be no question and no excuses. I know it was wrong and it's the only wrong thing I've done in 20+ years of hunting but it was an honest mistake and risking a 1000 dollar fine and talking to the wrong game warden on a power trip just aint worth it. Just my thoughts.
 
RE: Outfitter Ethics

RD,

I would put these Bushnell's up against any other brand out there. They get a bad wrap just because they don't cost a lot of money. These were given to me from my dad about 15 years ago and they still have excellent clarity and work like new.

Again..what kind do you have?
 
RE: Outfitter Ethics

bushnell has made some good optics. they used to have a model called "custom" that were really good. they are the same big company as bausch and lomb, or used to be. no telling anymore. they make a couple models of really good scopes now. but for the most part, they're not real good. decent, but not real good.
 
RE: Outfitter Ethics

Are you kidding me? Bushnells flat out suck! The only reason people don't know any better is because they have not hunted enough with bushnells AND quality optics to see the difference. There is a huge difference.
 
RE: Outfitter Ethics

when bushnell made the "customs", they were as expensive as anything made. and they were great optics. very clear, very tough, very forgiving focal length too. great if you wear glasses. only thing i had against them was the weight. they were very heavy. they made another model too that was very good too, but i can't remember the name of it. the only reason you don't know any different is because you're a short sighted retard that thinks that if it doesn't have a "z" in it, it's no good. i've owned and used every quality brand of optic made, the bushnell customs were as good as anything at the time. later "ME". go wallow in stupidity some place else.
 
RE: Hunter Ethics

LAST EDITED ON Feb-19-04 AT 11:03AM (MST)[p]The biggest problem I see with turning yourself in, if you made an honest mistake is that the Fish and Game departments have not been able to catch all of the SCUM poachers that are intentionally killing so when they have someone who viotated the game laws regardless of the situation they go to the extreme extent of the punishment in most cases. If someone has the stones to admit that they made a mistake with an animal then the law should reconize the intention they have to make it right. Why should an honest Joe get put in the same catagory as a guy who is dilibretly poaching. IF the F&G would simply confiscate the meat and relequish the hunter of his rights to hunt for the current season then everyone would be better off. The hunter would loose his right to harvest an animal for that season and would be out the cost and time of planning his hunt (hopefully lesson learned). The F&G would improve peoples attitudes towards law enforcement and the game taken could be used towards a needy family or shelter and not sit in the field wasting. Now if the same hunter is continually making mistakes year after year obviously the punishment should increase with the number of incidents. Until policies change the majority of the honest mistakes made will not be turned in. Lets figure the average cost of a rifle and scope, game license and tags, cost of the do it yourself trip averages out to 1100-1500 dollars add in the fine for being honest and turning yourself in, you could end up in the 2100-7500 price range or more real fast. Not a lot of hunters are willing cough up that kind of cash. Of course the question is: How much is peace of mind worth? Just my .02 cents.
 
RE: Outfitter Ethics

RLH,
Now I know why you are not seeing a Monster Muley. You can't even tell the difference between a German Optic and a Bushnell optic. Go back to your hospice.

Jeff
 
RE: Hunter Ethics

I don't care what you say about any bushnells. IMO they all suck. If these customs were so good, where are they now?
 
RE: Hunter Ethics

ME,

Those are the model that I use. Bushnell stopped making them because the manufacturing cost for that quality of a binocular got too high. They continued to make some quality optics but had to pass along the cost to the consumer.

Now adays, they are more known for their quality scopes moreso than their bino's. All I have to say is the proof is right here in my hands. I love these Bushell classics and would not trade them for anything.

What type of binoculars do you use?

-Phil
 
RE: Hunter Ethics

Swarovski 10 by 42 EL's
Swarovski 15 by 56 SLC's
Swarovski STS 80 Spotting Scope
You won't find a better set up!
 
RE: Hunter Ethics

Well, to each there own I guess. I guess I would be a little bitter too, if I would have spent all that money only to find out that I could have gotten a comperable set of Bushnell's for a quarter of the price.

Wilbur
 
RE: Hunter Ethics

Thats great you think I'd pay all that money to get those but I didn't. I figured out a way to get them very cheap. And no I won't tell anyone. So stop being jealous.
 
RE: Hunter Ethics

And if you think they compare to bushnells, you obviously have not used swarovski's enough.
 
RE: Hunter Ethics

Bushnell's do suck!! Not saying that you need Swarovski's
But for god's sake give your self a chance.
 
RE: Outfitter Ethics

Note to "What a Joke"

Swarovski does not make the best optics.
Leica makes the best optics, and yes you can see a 1/4" bump on an ANTLER at 500 yards.

Besides, a 1/4" bump does not count as a point. So you see you did nothing wrong. You just thought you did :)
 
RE: Hunter Ethics

ME,

You are right. I am jealous, but not about the fancy bino's you claim to have. I am jealous that you are such a superior hunter compared to everyone else. I wish that I could be just like you (only with Bushnells).

-Phil
 
RE: Hunter Ethics

I did not say I am superior to anyone. Don't put words in my mouth.
 
RE: Hunter Ethics

after readin' the big foot post and jeff tomlinsdaughters comments there, i'm all confused. if he likes good optics, i'm gonna switch to simmons. don't wanna use nothin' that guy uses. somethin' is makin' him goofy, and there is a slim chance that it's his binoculars and i don't wanna take a chance on catchin' whatever it is that this dude has. think i'll just go to iron sights and nekked eyes for huntin'. hey jeff, make us a list of what kinda optics you think are good, so's i can get somethin' that ain't on the list. you been takin' your vitamins?
 
RE: Hunter Ethics

Regular Lazy Hunter,
I use on Bushnells, Simons, and Leopolds. I would typically ask you what brand name quad you ride, but I don't use them when I'm hunting.

Jeff's Daughter
 
RE: Hunter Ethics

my quad is named quarter horse. don't even own a "quad". 30 years from now call me and we'll compare notes. take you that long to get close. and that's if i quit hunting today. later, boy.
 
RE: Hunter Ethics

RLH,
30 years from now I won't even be here. I'll probably be in the happy hunting grounds, sending you little two points from above. I'm 62 years old now and feel confident that I can call you BOY.
 
RE: Hunter Ethics

When you to get done catfighting maybe you can read the topic for this post. You to got lost somewhere along the way.
 
RE: Hunter Ethics

About 40 years ago my grandpa was on a special hunt in california and he shot a spike buck that he says to this day had the highest antlers he'd ever killed and when he walked up to it he couldn't believe it. This was a hunt where you had to check your game in with a warden, and at the time my grandpa was hunting mostly because his family needed the meat and there was no way he could chance having to pay a fine with money he didn't have. My dad says he remembers my grandpa puking over this on the way back to the pickup, and to this day it still makes him sick.
 
RE: Hunter Ethics

It has been illegal to shoot a spike in California pretty much forever, I think (At least in the Northern part of thes state)
 
RE: Hunter Ethics

The way I read UT law a spike can't have any branching above the ears and the branch or point has to be longer than an inch...so "eye guards" wouldn't matter.
 
RE: Hunter Ethics

Anyone that shoots without knowing what their target is is a poacher end of story
 
RE: Hunter Ethics

Let me tell you How I filled my Ohio buck tag this past year;
Opening morning of gun season I was out two hours before light using my nightvision binoculars searching for a buck we called "widerack".With all the hunters heading to their spots you would not believe the deer I see moving away from them in the dark. About a half an hour before first light I spotted him moving across a hayfield and heading towards a dense thicket. I packed my gear and headed that way. Easing my way into the wind towards a prominent knoll that somewhat overlooked the thicket, I waited till the sun was almost clear of the horizon. Next I retrieved my heat sensing device and scanned the thicket for deer and was amazed when it picked up something not 60 yards from me. I raised my weapon and scrutinized the area in question through my scope but saw nothing, too thick. I scanned it again and there was definately something there near a small pine and it was putting off a lot of heat. I began to throw rocks at the pine and on the fourth throw I came real close and the whole thicket seem to erupt as "widerack" try'd to make his getaway. It was an easy shot as the thicket slowed him from making an all out dash. Took me over an hour to cut my way in and retrieve him. But it was all worth it as I won my local buck contest and the one at work!!
 
RE: Hunter Ethics

this last year my dad had an antlerless tag for the manti unit in utah. He saw an elk in a clearing about 500 yards away and started shooting at it hitting it a couple of times and killing it. Turned out he hadnt looked nearly close enough it was a 5-point bull. Really dumb i know, but anyway he turned hisself in and only got a 100$ fine. Can you belive it. Another guy shot a small 6-point on a spike tag. He tried to hide it and got his truck and gun and 2 4-wheelers taken away. He also cant hunt for 5 years. I dont agree that all my dad got was a 100$ fine he probably should have got in more trouble but that just goes to show you that turning yourself in will help you out a ton.
 
RE: Hunter Ethics

It's idiots like your Dad that give hunters a bad name. Why in the ##### would you take a 500 yard shot, if you are not smart enough to be sure what you are shooting at.
 
RE: Hunter Ethics

Sporting to the max! Maybe your just jealous of my high end electronics. What'a you got? A flashlight?
 
RE: Hunter Ethics

LAST EDITED ON Mar-04-04 AT 09:24PM (MST)[p]RD is right, there is no excuse for not being absolutely sure about your target. What if that "elk" he was shooting at from 500 yards turned out to be some guy sitting behind an elk decoy? With todays high quality optics you should be able to tell the difference between a five point bull and a cow, at five hundred yards or beyond, I hope. Taking a 500 yard shot at a target you are unsure of is dangerous. Sometimes 500 yard shots are taken, I had a client kill a bull last year at 518 yards, but there is no way that we would have let him shoot if we were unsure of the target and had ample time to evaluate the animal. Just my 2 cents.

CHIEF
 
RE: Hunter Ethics

is your wife about 450 lbs? maybe you could use that stuff to find the wett spot! please stay in OHIO!
You use that stuff for the wrong reasons!








Jack
 
RE: Hunter Ethics

Just about anybody that can afford to buy a tag could afford to buy your "high end" stuff. But how can you call that hunting? And I truly believe that those kind of "high end" things ruin our great sport and just add fuel to the fire of those ant-hunters.
 
RE: Hunter Ethics

I agree that we should all know our target, but we all make mistakes and making one doen't make you a poacher. If RD is a serious hunter he can't tell me he never made any mistakes. No way! Ever shot a hen mallard while aiming at a drake?

I agree that shooting an animal at 500 yards especially a moving one is a little bit pushing it. But anybody sitting behing a decoy during rifle season ought to be shot!
 
RE: Hunter Ethics

You are right FOWL ADDICT, everyone makes mistakes. I think that RD was trying to imply that if someone makes a mistake such as this don't be announcing it in public as it does not cast a favorable light on hunters. I also agree that someone sitting behind a decoy during a rifle hunt is is retarded but I wouldn't put it past some people nowadays! I have seen dumber shenanigans than that pulled in the woods. It just pays to be careful, thats all. That "elk" might really be a suicidal idiot behind a decoy!LOL!
 
RE: Hunter Ethics

No doubt I have made mistakes while I have been out hunting. It's just that i personally feel that most people should stay within 350 yard shots, because when they don't these are the kinds of things that happen-
 
RE: Hunter Ethics

Good one Rackmaster. What a cut, what a burn. Your state got any non-resident tags? Looks like you boys are already using my equipment.


My scope well! never been mounted to rifle, has range! and lets
me see at night too! and cost $4500. cabelas.com,basspro.com
redhead.com
good luck Jack


Let me guess your rifle has quick detach scope mounts right? Hmmm
 
RE: Hunter Ethics

py_archer is a RT guy who is a bowhunter.
Just stirring the pot I guess.
Really funny how a food plot hunter and baiter thinks archery makes it harder. LOL
Best,
Jerry
 
RE: Hunter Ethics

py_archer
Some of us dont need hi-tech gadgets to make us a better hunter. All you need is a weapon, knife and experience! You hi-tech spike hunters are too lazy to put any effort into making it "sporting". By the way. what you did sounds a lot like poaching to me. Something to be proud of, eh?
Eric
 
RE: Hunter Ethics

rd-
Well you just cleared up the type of hunter I judged you to be, so I apologize for that. I can see that the same things upset you that upset me. I agree that people should not shoot 500 yard shots, and some people will disagree with us. But I truly believe that no matter how good a shot you are it is just too risky. Deer and elk are not sissy creatures, They can go a long way after a perfectly placed shot and if you hit an animal from 500 yards that is a long way to walk to the site you thought you hit it. But that is just me. I want to make sure that if I shoot something I'm sure that I can put it in the truck, and not end up with a miserable trip knowing I hit something, but never being able to recover it.
 
RE: Hunter Ethics

I agree, as much as I like hitting something and being able to bring it home, it sickens me when I hit it and wound an animal, because in my book ther is no reason for it, except for my own error or bad judgement.
 
RE: Hunter Ethics

>
>Really funny how a food plot
>hunter and baiter thinks archery
>makes it harder. LOL
>Best,
>Jerry


Archery gear makes it easier then? What an ignorant comment, ecspecially since I've never hunted over food plots or bait. I'd like to hear your list of high end electronics.
 

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