Questions about wildlife orgs in Utah

[NVBighorn]

I live in Nevada (I know shocking from my name and all) but I gotta ask some questions here.

So let me get this straight? organizations like SFW are actually allotted something like 500 tags a year to be sold or raffled or whatever? (it may be more or less than that I don't know) And those tags are deducted from the tags that would have otherwise been available for mainstream hunters? And the org (SFW or others) that acts as vendor actually gets to keep a substantial part of the proceeds? And they are not required by the state to account for every dime of how that money is spent? And we're not just talking about money from their own fundraising activities here, selling a painting or trip or bake sale. We are also talking about the tag sale proceeds? So we are talking about a pretty good amount of money they generate from the state?s wildlife?

Am I way off base? Help me understand the specifics. Please don't turn this into a ?this is why SFW is good? or bad? thread. Cuz I really don't care. I want simple answers about organizations that market tags in Utah. Not just SFW either.

 

[never_catch]

NVB go back to the "campfire" buddy...it's safe there

GO KOBE GO!!

~Z~

 

[rugarm77]

Horn did you bring a buddy this time??

 

[nickman]

I don't live in Utah, nor have I hunted there in the last 22 years, but this topic is obviously a hot item.

In California, the DFG allocates about 10 (big game) tags per year to different NON PROFIT orgs to auction off at their respective banquets or fund raising activities. There are only about 5 elk tags actually used for this purpose.

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating that anyone, anywhere, for any reason, should copy ANYTHING California does, in any regard......but this is how it works here.

The monies that are generated from the auction, ALL belong to DFG and are used solely for the specific big game program that applies to that species only.

For example, the RMEF auctioned off 2 Tule Elk bull tags, this year in Reno, for the Fort Hunter Liggett zone. They went for $51k and $52k. RMEF recieves none of that money.

The tags are essentially "bait" for the organization, to draw attendees, who may participate in other activities that in fact do generate funds for RMEF (or).....which dosen't actually work any longer, since most of the tags are bought over the telephone.

Now, if in fact, ANY organization is actually making a profit, or otherwise not returning auction funds back to the respective State game agency, that would be wrong.

If the general draw tag allotment was reduced, to create "auction tags", that would be wrong also.

One would surmise, given the discussion on this site, that someone from SWF, et al, would 'splain this.

Seems like a pregnant opportunity to hear from the State as well.

I'm just curious......

 

[sageadvice]

Oh great!! Another, what happens to the auction tag money thread!!



Joey

 

[goofyelk]

Here's a link to the "administrative rules" how its done in Utah.
http://wildlife.utah.gov/rules/R657-41.php

 

[B_BOP_A_LU_LU]

Well NVB,
You see,In Utah,Bucks & Bulls are sold like ladies of the evening in Nevada are.
Oh,did I tell you gambling was illegal in Utah unless Big Game is involved?
The organizations do some great things here in Utah,I don't agree with everything they do but that's just me,they are getting REAL POWERFUL here in Utah.
I'm not one to beach & Complain because one/some of their members have pulled a tag or two as long as it was fair & Square which I think/hope it was!
There's getting to be alot of money involved,just hope it's legitimately being used/spent.
So tell us NVB?
You starting an orgy in Nevada?

 

[arrowone4me]

Great that the money generated from the auctioning of the tags go to the DFG. Then the state legislature somehow siphons that money and puts it into the general fund as in Calif. We all know what happens to that money.

 

[eelgrass]

nickman, that's a great explination as to how it works in Kali. One organization told me (I won't say who) it's a big pain for them to auction tags, since they don't keep any of the proceeds. But at least we know where the money goes. I'm not saying the state spends it wisely but......

B_Bop, the girls in Nevada aren't auctioned off. It's more like a canned high fence hunt.

Eel

 

[NVBighorn]

LAST EDITED ON Mar-28-10 AT 09:21AM (MST)[p]never_catch, I tied a rope around my waist and Feleno is holding the other end at the campfire so I can find my way back. Just hope he doesn't get sidetracked looking at boobs and drop my rope.

rugarm, I was kinda hoping that's what you were doing here.

nickman, that's pretty much how we do it in Nevada and it works pretty well. We have some large ALL volunteer organizations here that market the tags but give back all the money to the state. They also raise a lot of money for projects on their own as well.

So come on! I wanna here from some more Utahans. Explain it to me.


Edit: goofyelk - thank you so much for that link! It is very enlightening. I encourage EVERY Utah hunter to read it carefully in its entirity and then start making people accountable to it.

 

[ColoradoOak]

NVBighorn,

Then on top of Conservation permits, you have Convention permits, which you can read about here:

http://wildlife.utah.gov/rules/R657-55.php

 

[B_BOP_A_LU_LU]

So NVB?
Are you gonna be the PEAYDAY of Nevada?

 

[Deerlove]

Don did say at the SFW meeting that at the latest wolf battle in DC that there were 20 something pro wolf groups and only two hunting org. Them and the safari club.

 

[gb22]

I'm from Idaho and (other than not being a huge fan of the idea of auctioning more than a couple of tags) "don't have a dog in this fight".

After reading those links, I understand the legal authority (that's simple) and so forth.

Does anybody KNOW how many tags are given to the various organizations. IF SO, please satisfy my (guessing many others) curiosity...how many tags are available for auction and how many total groups get to auction them?


Within the shadows, go quietly.

 

[goofyelk]

LAST EDITED ON Mar-28-10 AT 03:05PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Mar-28-10 AT 02:59?PM (MST)

gb22,,,,Here's a link to that list.....
I had to edit this and remove the link,,wasn't working right.

The list is available on the Utah division of wildlife web
on the big game page at the bottom...

 

[bowhunt]

Utah takes several tags and auctions them to the highest bidder. Generally guides buy them for their clients at Banquets. Great for guides!

The State takes a few more tags and gives them to SFW to raffle off at their Sportsman Show. Helps attendance at the show.

The State will now take a few more tags and give them to land owners. The landowners can now sell those tags, I am assuming mainly to guides.

Here is the list of tags and who gets to sell them.
2010

10/22/2009

FNAWS

Bull Elk Book Cliffs, Bitter Creek - South (4) AR

Bull Elk Book Cliffs, Little Creek (roadless) (2) AW

Bull Elk Cache, North (4) AR

Bull Elk La Sal, La Sal Mountains (3) AW

Bull Elk Nine Mile Range Creek, South (1) PR

Bull Elk Panguitch Lake (5) MZ

Bull Elk Plateau, Boulder/Kaiparowits (3) AW

Bull Elk Plateau, Fish Lake , Thousand Lake (4) AR

Bull Elk Plateau, Fish Lake , Thousand Lake (7) AW

Bull Elk South Slope, Diamond Mountain (2) AW

Bull Elk South Slope, Diamond Mountain (3) AW

Bull Elk South Slope, Diamond Mountain (4) AR

Bull Elk Wasatch Mtns. (5) AW

Buck Deer Book Cliffs (6) MZ

Buck Pronghorn Cache, N. Rich (2) AW

Buck Pronghorn Cache, N. Rich (3) AW

Buck Pronghorn Plateau (7) AW

Buck Pronghorn San Rafael , N. (1) AW

Desert Bighorn Sheep Kaiparowits, East (1)

Desert Bighorn Sheep San rafael, Dirty Devil (1)

Desert Bighorn Sheep San Rafael , North (1)

Desert Bighorn Sheep San Rafael , South (1)

Rocky Mountain Goat Beaver (Female Only) (1)

Rocky Mountain Goat Beaver (Female Only) (2)

Cougar Central (1)

Cougar Northeast (1)

Cougar Northern Region (2)

Cougar Southern (1)

Turkey Central (5)

Turkey Central (6)

Turkey Northeast (2)

Turkey Northern (3)

Turkey Northern (4)

Turkey Southeast (4)

Turkey Southeast (5)

Turkey Southeast (6)

Turkey Southeast (7)

Turkey Southeast (8)

Turkey Southern (3)

Turkey Southern (4)

Turkey Southern (5)

Turkey Southern (6)

Turkey Southern (7)

Buck Deer Central (1) Season Choice

Buck Deer Southern (4) Season Choice

Rocky Mtn. Bighorn Sheep Box Elder, Newfoundland (1)

Rocky Mtn. Bighorn Sheep Nine Mile, Range Creek (1)

Desert Bighorn Sheep Kaiparowits, Escalante (1)

Rocky Mtn. Bighorn Sheep Book Cliffs, South (Rattlesnake) (1)



Mule Deer Foundation

Bull Elk Book Cliffs, Little Creek (roadless) (4) AR

Bull Elk Fillmore, Pahvant (3) AW

Bull Elk Monroe (6) PR

Bull Elk Beaver (2) AW

Bull Elk Beaver (4) AR

Bull Elk Book Cliffs, Bitter Creek - South (1) PR

Bull Elk Cache, North (1) PR

Bull Elk Cache, North (3) AW

Bull Elk Cache, South (1) PR

Bull Elk Central Mtns., Manti (1) PR

Bull Elk Central Mtns., Manti (4) AR

Bull Elk Central Mtns., Manti (5) MZ

Bull Elk Central Mtns., Nebo (1) PR

Bull Elk Central Mtns., Nebo (2) AW

Bull Elk Central Mtns., Nebo (4) AR

Bull Elk Central Mtns., Nebo (5) PR

Bull Elk Fillmore, Oak Cr. (1) PR

Bull Elk Fillmore, Pahvant (4) AR

Bull Elk Fillmore, Pahvant (6) PR

Bull Elk Monroe (4) AR

Bull Elk Mt. Dutton (1) PR

Bull Elk Mt. Dutton (2) AW

Bull Elk Mt. Dutton (3) AW

Bull Elk Mt. Dutton (4) AR

Bull Elk North Slope, Three Corners (1) PR

Bull Elk Oquirrh-Stansbury (1) PR

Bull Elk Panguitch Lake (2) AW

Bull Elk Panguitch Lake (3) AW

Bull Elk Panguitch Lake (4) AR

Bull Elk Plateau, Fish Lake, Thousand Lake (2) AW

Bull Elk Plateau, Fish Lake, Thousand Lake (6) PR

Bull Elk S. W. Desert (1) PR

Bull Elk San Juan (1) PR

Bull Elk San Juan (5) MZ

Bull Elk South Slope, Diamond Mountain (1) PR

Bull Elk Wasatch Mtns. (1) PR

Bull Elk Wasatch Mtns. (6) AW

Buck Deer Book Cliffs (2) SC

Buck Deer Book Cliffs (3) MZ

Buck Deer Fillmore, Oak Creek (2) SC

Buck Deer Henry Mountains (2) SC

Buck Deer La Sal, Dolores (1) SC

Buck Deer Paunsaugunt (1) SC

Buck Deer Paunsaugunt (2) SC

Buck Deer Paunsaugunt (3) MZ

Buck Deer Paunsaugunt (4) AR

Buck Deer Paunsaugunt (6) AW

Buck Deer Paunsaugunt (7) MZ

Buck Deer Paunsaugunt (8) AR

Buck Deer Plateau, Thousand Lakes (1) SC

Buck Deer S. Slope, Diamond (1) SC

Buck Deer S. Slope, Diamond (2) SC

Buck Deer S. Slope, Diamond (3) MZ

Buck Deer San Juan, Elk Ridge (2) SC

Buck Deer Statewide (1)

Buck Deer West Desert, Vernon (3) MZ

Buck Deer West Desert, Vernon (4) AR

Buck Pronghorn Book Cliffs, South (2) AW

Buck Pronghorn Box Elder, Pilot Mountain (1) AW

Buck Pronghorn Box Elder, Promontory (1) AW

Buck Pronghorn Cache, N. Rich (1) AW

Buck Pronghorn N. Slope, West Daggett (1) AW

Buck Pronghorn Plateau (2) AW

Buck Pronghorn Plateau (3) AW

Buck Pronghorn Plateau (4) AW

Buck Pronghorn Plateau (5) AW

Buck Pronghorn S. Slope, Bonanza, Diamond (1) AW

Buck Pronghorn San Rafael, N. (3) AW

Buck Pronghorn Southwest Desert (2) AW

Rocky Mountain Goat Ogden, Willard (1)

Rocky Mountain Goat Ogden, Willard (Female Only) (1)

Bull Moose Cache (1)

Bull Moose Ogden (1)

Bear S. Slope, Vernal/Diamond/Bonanza (1)

Cougar Central (2)

Cougar Northern Region (1)

Cougar Northern Region (3)

Cougar Southern (2)

Cougar Southern (3)

Cougar Statewide (1)

Turkey Central (3)

Turkey Central (4)

Turkey Northeast (1)

Turkey Northern (5

Buck Deer Central (3) Season Choice

Buck Deer Northeastern (1) Season Choice

Buck Deer Southeastern (2) Season Choice

Antlerless Elk Central (3)

Antlerless Elk Central (4)

Antlerless Elk Northeast (1)

Antlerless Elk Northeast (2)

Antlerless Elk Northern (3)

Antlerless Elk Northern (4)

Antlerless Elk Southeast (3)

Antlerless Elk Southern (4)



National Wild Turkey Federation

Bull Elk Central Mtns., Manti (7) AW

Bull Elk North Slope, Three Corners (2) AW

Buck Deer West Desert, Vernon (5) AW

Turkey Central (1)

Turkey Central (2)

Turkey Northern (1)

Turkey Northern (2)

Turkey Southeast (1)

Turkey Southeast (2)

Turkey Southeast (3)

Turkey Southern (1)

Turkey Southern (2)

Turkey Statewide (1)

Bull Elk Book Cliffs, Bitter Creek - South (2) AW

Bull Elk La Sal, La Sal Mountains (1) PR

Bull Elk Monroe (2) AW

Buck Deer Book Cliffs (4) AW

Buck Deer Paunsaugunt (5) AW

Buck Deer Southern (2) Season Choice

Buck Deer Southern (3) Season Choice



Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation

Bull Elk Book Cliffs, Bitter Creek - South (3) AW

Bull Elk Book Cliffs, Bitter Creek - South (5) MZ

Bull Elk Book Cliffs, Little Creek (roadless) (1) PR

Bull Elk Cache, South (3) AW

Bull Elk Central Mtns., Manti (2) AW

Bull Elk Central Mtns., Manti (3) AW

Bull Elk Fillmore, Pahvant (2) AW

Bull Elk Monroe (3) AW

Bull Elk Panguitch Lake (1) PR

Bull Elk Paunsaugunt (1) PR

Bull Elk Plateau, Fish Lake, Thousand Lake (1) PR

Bull Elk San Juan (2) AW

Bull Elk San Juan (3) AW

Bull Elk Wasatch Mtns. (2) AW

Buck Deer Book Cliffs (5) AW

Buck Deer S. Slope, Diamond (4) AR

Buck Deer West Desert, Vernon (2) SC

Buck Pronghorn Mt. Dutton, Paunsaugunt (1) AW

Buck Pronghorn Pine Valley (2) AW

Buck Pronghorn Plateau (1) AW

Buck Pronghorn West Desert, Riverbed (1) AW

Buck Pronghorn West Desert, Rush Valley (1) AW

Buck Pronghorn West Desert, Snake Valley (1) AW

Buck Pronghorn West Desert, Snake Valley (2) AW

Bison Henry Mountains, Cow Only (1)

Bear Chalk Creek - Kamas, W. Slope (1)

Bear Fillmore - Pahvant - Beaver (1)

Bear Panguitch Lake - Zion (1)

Buck Deer Southeastern (1) Season Choice

Antlerless Elk Central (1)

Antlerless Elk Central (2)

Antlerless Elk Northeast (4)

Antlerless Elk Northern (1)

Antlerless Elk Northern (2)

Antlerless Elk Southeast (1)

Antlerless Elk Southern (1)

Antlerless Elk Southern (2)

Antlerless Elk Southern (3)

Rocky Mtn. Bighorn Sheep Statewide (1)



Safari Club International

Bull Elk Plateau, Boulder/Kaiparowits (5) MZ

Buck Deer West Desert, Vernon (1) SC

Buck Pronghorn Pine Valley (1) AW

Desert Bighorn Sheep Statewide (1)

Bear Nine mile, Anthro-Range Creek (1)

Bear Plateau, Boulder - Kaiparowits (1)

Buck Deer Southern (1) Season Choice



Sportsmen for Fish and Wildlife

Buck Pronghorn San Rafael, Desert (1) AW

Bull Moose Cache (2)

Bull Moose North Slope, Summit (1)

Bull Moose North Slope, Summit (2)

Bull Moose Wasatch Mountains (1)

Bull Elk Beaver (1) PR

Bull Elk Beaver (3) AW

Bull Elk Book Cliffs, Bitter Creek - South (6) PR

Bull Elk Book Cliffs, Bitter Creek - South (7) AW

Bull Elk Book Cliffs, Little Creek (roadless) (3) AW

Bull Elk Cache, Meadowville (1) PR

Bull Elk Cache, North (2) AW

Bull Elk Cache, South (2) AW

Bull Elk Central Mtns., Manti (6) PR

Bull Elk Central Mtns., Manti (8) AW

Bull Elk Central Mtns., Nebo (3) AW

Bull Elk Central Mtns., Nebo (6) AW

Bull Elk Central Mtns., Nebo (7) MZ

Bull Elk Fillmore, Oak Cr. (2) AW

Bull Elk Fillmore, Oak Cr. (3) AW

Bull Elk Fillmore, Pahvant (1) PR

Bull Elk Fillmore, Pahvant (5) MZ

Bull Elk La Sal, La Sal Mountains (2) AW

Bull Elk Monroe (1) PR

Bull Elk Monroe (5) MZ

Bull Elk Mt. Dutton (5) MZ

Bull Elk Mt. Dutton (6) PR

Bull Elk Mt. Dutton (7) AW

Bull Elk Mt. Dutton (8) AW

Bull Elk Nine Mile, Anthro (1) PR

Bull Elk Oquirrh-Stansbury (2) AW

Bull Elk Paunsaugunt (2) AW

Bull Elk Plateau, Boulder/Kaiparowits (1) PR

Bull Elk Plateau, Boulder/Kaiparowits (2) AW

Bull Elk Plateau, Boulder/Kaiparowits (4) AR

Bull Elk Plateau, Fish Lake, Thousand Lake (3) AW

Bull Elk Plateau, Fish Lake, Thousand Lake (5) MZ

Bull Elk S. W. Desert (2) AW

Bull Elk S. W. Desert (3) AW

Bull Elk S. W. Desert (4) AR

Bull Elk San Juan (4) AR

Bull Elk Statewide (1) PR

Bull Elk Wasatch Mtns. (3) MZ

Bull Elk Wasatch Mtns. (4) PR

Bull Elk West Desert, Deep Cr. (1) PR

Bull Elk West Desert, Deep Cr. (2) AW

Buck Deer Book Cliffs (1) SC

Buck Deer Cache, Crawford Mountain (1) MZ

Buck Deer Fillmore, Oak Creek (1) SC

Buck Deer Fillmore, Oak Creek (3) MZ

Buck Deer Henry Mountains (1) SC

Buck Deer Plateau, Thousand Lakes (2) SC

Buck Deer S. Slope, Diamond (5) AW

Buck Deer S. Slope, Diamond (6) AW

Buck Deer San Juan, Elk Ridge (1) SC

Buck Deer West Desert, Vernon (6) AW

Buck Deer West Desert, Vernon (7) MZ

Buck Pronghorn Beaver (1) AW

Buck Pronghorn Book Cliffs, Bitter Creek (1) AW

Buck Pronghorn Book Cliffs, South (1) AW

Buck Pronghorn Mt. Dutton, Paunsaugunt (2) AW

Buck Pronghorn Mt. Dutton, Paunsaugunt (3) AW

Buck Pronghorn N. Slope, West Daggett (2) AW

Buck Pronghorn Nine Mile, Anthro (1) AW

Buck Pronghorn Plateau (6) AW

Buck Pronghorn S. Slope, Bonanza, Diamond (2) AW

Buck Pronghorn San Rafael, N. (2) AW

Buck Pronghorn Statewide (1) AW

Buck Pronghorn Southwest Desert (1) AW

Buck Pronghorn Southwest Desert (3) AW

Buck Pronghorn Southwest Desert (4) AW

Buck Pronghorn West Desert, Riverbed (2) AW

Rocky Mountain Goat N/S Slope - High Uintas West (1)

Rocky Mountain Goat Statewide (1

Rocky Mountain Goat Wasatch Mountains, Lone Peak (1)

Bull Moose Statewide (1)

Bull Moose Wasatch Mountains (2)

Bison Henry Mountains, Hunter's Choice (1

Bison Henry Mountains, Hunter's Choice (2

Bison Statewide (1)

Bear Book Cliffs (1)

Bear Central Mountains, Nebo (1

Bear Central Mountains, North (1)

Bear Central Mountains, South (1)

Bear LaSal (1)

Bear LaSal (2)

Bear Nine Mile, Anthro-Range Creek (2)

Bear S. Slope, Yellowstone (1)

Bear San Juan (1)

Bear San Juan (2)

Bear Statewide (1)

Bear Wasatch Mountains, Current Cr. (1)

Bear Wasatch Mountains, West (1)

Cougar Central (3)

Cougar Central (4)

Cougar Southeast (1)

Cougar Southern (4)

Cougar Southern (5)

Cougar Southern (6)

Turkey Central (7)

Turkey Central (8)

Turkey Northeast (3)

Turkey Northeast (4)

Turkey Northeast (5)

Turkey Northeast (6)

Turkey Northeast (7)

Turkey Northeast (8)

Turkey Northern (6)

Buck Deer Central (2) Season Choice

Buck Deer Central (4) Season Choice

Buck Deer Northeastern (2) Season Choice

Buck Deer Northeastern (3) Season Choice

Buck Deer Northeastern (4) Season Choice

Buck Deer Northern (1) Season Choice

Buck Deer Northern (2) Season Choice

Buck Deer Northern (3) Season Choice

Buck Deer Northern (4) Season Choice

Buck Deer Southeastern (3) Season Choice

Buck Deer Southeastern (4) Season Choice

Antlerless Elk Northeast (3)

Antlerless Elk Southeast (2)

Antlerless Elk Southeast (4)

Plus 100 More to be used for Land Owners

 

[WORKNMAN]

NVB, all 501C3 groups NWTF, RMEF, MDF, FNAWS, AND SFW. All are auditted by the DWR to account for their fundraiseing with conservation tags every year. Every dime is accounted for!!!

 

[gb22]

That is WAY TOO MANY tags to be given to those to whom money means much less than to the average man with a family. Fair? No, but the main point is that part of the founding of this nation was that wildlife belonged to the common man (remember Robin Hood and the King's deer?). Turning hunting into a rich man's sport, will be the end of hunting in the U.S...........more certainly than Obama, Pelosi and friends.

Every penny many be "accounted", but not necessarily used for wildlife. The statutes allowed the organizations to use money for the organization.

I can't say (have no evidence either way) that ANY of the wildlife groups are so doing, but we all know of major do-gooder orgs. that use a LOT of money to pay salaries, buy vehicles, rent offices and so forth. Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation is NOT one of those. Many others are.

I'm a recently-retired banker. It is common sense (supported by 30+ years experience) to BE VERY CAUTIOUS OF ANYONE who doesn't want to tell you what they did with the ALL of the dollars....not lumping it into organizational funds. They are only allowed to use a certain percentage of the proceeds for themselves.....what do those $ buy? The RMEF uses volunteers. The NRA does not. What does the organization selling your hunting opportunities use their money for? Does the "president" drive a new SUV and have several 4-wheelers? Do they use the organizational money to advertise for more volunteer help?

It is very reasonable to ask where the money goes. I'd never buy a tag and scream like crazy over my lost opportunity, if the money is going to salaries, vehicles, travel and so forth.


Within the shadows, go quietly.

 

[nickman]

I would like to offer my most sincerest apologies to the hunters and residents of Utah.

Over the course of the last couple years, I simply thought you guys were whining and sniveling over a FEW auction tags.

To actually see a list of tags being allocated is a definate eye opener. Even 10% of this list appears to be excessive to me.

There is some serious "pimping" going on in this program!

 

[NVBighorn]

The statute is very clear, the orgs keep 10% for administrative costs, and 60% can be retained by them but must be used for projects. Of course I can think of a ton of projects where a person could syphon money off to themselves or friends.

If the orgs are audited then that information is public. Any time a state's resources are involved it is public information. So why is it so hard for the average Joe to get it? Maybe he's not asking the right person in the right way.

I am amazed at the shear number of tags for orgs. Yes there has been a helluva a lot of money raised this way over the years. But it gives me heartburn. Is every single resident of Utah allowed to buy into these raffles or only if they attend the expo or function of the org? That would be a sticking point for me.

I am told that Mr Peay and company is getting into Alaska, Idaho and even Nevada. That really worries me. I can't tell if its a step towards socialization of hunting and game management or empire building the way so many political powers have done for eons (Romans, British, Nazi Germany etc). It's some of both. In either case it scares hell out of me and I don't care how much money is generated, it isn't good for mainstream hunting.

I notice that the SFW hawks have not responded to these questions. Makes me wonder.

To SFW and Mr Peay, stay the hell outta of Nevada. I am forwarding this information to groups that will fight you tooth and nail when you try this bullsh!t here.

 

[tuleelk]

Just wanted to clarify a few things on California auction or fund raising tags. California has 10 deer tags (5 golden opportunity and 5 open zone tags), 3 elk (one grizzly island, one Owens Valley, and one multi-zone), two antelope and two sheep tags(-not sure on the exact number of sheep). The nonprofits that auction these off do not get to keep any of the money, it is all returned to the Department. Deer and sheep have dedicated accounts which the money is put into and used for those species. Elk and antelope do not have dedicated accounts and that money is put into the Fish and Game general fund.
The tags that were auctioned off by RMEF in Reno this year were military tags that Fort Hunter Liggett (FHL) receives. We have both general tags and military tags at FHL. The military can do whatever they want with the tags issued to them that is not the Departments decision. They chose to auction off two of their tags. I hope that helps to clarify how CA does it.

Thanks

Joe

 

[ColoradoOak]

>NVB, all 501C3 groups NWTF, RMEF,
>MDF, FNAWS, AND SFW. All
>are auditted by the DWR
>to account for their fundraiseing
>with conservation tags every year.
>Every dime is accounted for!!!

That's funny. Have you ever seen these "audits"? I have, and they are a joke. The second and third lines in the audits say:

"This audit was not performed using generally accepted auditing standards, but is an internal audit designed by the UDWR fiscal section. Our report focuses on verifying that raised funds were placed in a secure account and that expenditures on projects were approved prior to performance."

There is absolutely nothing in the audits that identifies that funds were actually spent how the non-profit said they would be spent. One entire annual audit is a single page listing permit revenue, amounts remitted to UDWR and retained for administration expenses, funds approved for projects, and amount remaining in the secure account.

I am not one to generally bad-mouth a state wildlife department. But I find it funny that the same people on here who despise UDWR and don't trust them to spend conservation tag money wisely are the same ones that have 100% trust that UDWR is ensuring that non-profits are spending it wisely.

 

[Feleno]

Interesting bit of information there Oak, thanks.

NV
Hold on, I'm pulling you back out of this hell hole! Let this be a lesson to you.

 

[NVBighorn]

Not yet F'er! I'm still OK. I'm gettin an ejamukayshun. Just don't put that end of the rope down!

 

[B_BOP_A_LU_LU]

LAST EDITED ON Mar-29-10 AT 05:43PM (MST)[p]GOOD GAWD NVB!
Last I heard,Pro was headed your way & gonna be the PEAYDAY of Nevada,lol!
And Nevada's Hunting will all be fixed.
It might cost you a bunch of money but by GAWD the opportunity is on the way!
}> }> }>

 

[Deersman]

For those who don't agree with all that conservation groups do but still think they do some good. Do you think the same of a burglar that wipes his feet before he comes in and dust's while he is there.

You must ask yourself what will conservation groups gain from solving big game management. How would SFW be looking if Utah had 100,000 elk and 800,000 deer. I bet they couldn't get $400,000 for a tag. And their membership would plummet. One thing these groups all thrive from and that is a poor hunting outlook or the perception of. This is what drives recruitment and donation.

I don't thank SFW or any other conservation group in Utah for there efforts. For what elk. And convincing the general hunting public that elk is the answer to out big game needs. And let deer run right in the ground. And habitat may be the reason for not having the ability to have 1000000 deer but its not the reason Monroe only has 6300 deer. That is 100% due to negligent game management. And the conservation groups that are supposed to have our best interest in mind. And make the case for wildlife and make the hard decisions. Have neglected to do so.

So its a no thanks from me. As if they needed or wanted one from guys like me. Anyway as this thread has pointed out. They are well compensated monetarily for their efforts.

 

[spcheuvront]

Fellas;

If some one has gone over Arizonas system for auction tags
I didn't read it.

In Az. there are 3 tags per species, ( big game tags )
2 tags each for auction to the highest bidder, and 1 tag that goes into the super raffel. That's it-

The super raffel has a way to buy raffel tickets for what ever species you are interested in. These tickets go for , I think like $25.00 per ticket. These tickets are drawn before an audience, usually by a kid in the crowd. I have never heard of any problem with this system.

The auction tags are applied for by the different Wildlife Organizations. i.e. RMEF,AES,ADA,MDF,AAF,ABHSS,NWTF, etc.

The AZGF Commission awards these tags to organizations who have shown their ability to raise big dollars for the species.
These winning organizations then auction these tags to the highest bidder.

ALL the money comes back to the state. If a tag sells for $100,000.00 there is NO administration fee in Arizona, which means ALL $100,000.00 goes to wildlife.

I sit on the committee of the ADA ( Arizona Deer Association )
that looks at the different projects that will be funded with the money raised, by the auction and raffel tags. Again, there are no adminstration fees, no management fees, no fees of any kind. All the money raised are spent for the species it was sold to benifite.

Steve Cheuvront

 

[spcheuvront]

Fellas;

One point I forgot to make is that the organization that is awarded the wildlife tag to auction does get something for it.

What do they get?

They get the right to sit at the table with the AZG&FD to vote on exactly how the money is spent. Every penny!

Steve Cheuvront

 

[NVBighorn]

I'm violating my own request here. I am turning this into a "SFW is good or bad" debate. It's my thread so I feel I have that right.

After looking over the SFW webpage I am now aware that there are chapters in Utah, Wyoming, Idaho, New Mexico, Alaska and Nevada as well as the newest in Montana.

I thought the Nevada chapter was very interesting. All the "officers" and "positions" except one are from Utah. The one from Nevada is from Las Vegas.
Nevada Members
John Bair SFW Chairman of the Board (801)472-0552
Byron Bateman SFW President (801)725-8526
Don Peay SFW Founder (801)635-5576
Troy Justensen Marketing & Fundraising (801)557-3362
Ryan Foutz Marketing & Secre (801)243-9882
Dave Woodhouse SFW Vice Chairman (801)360-9443
Steve Kiesel Nevada Memberships (702)290-4244

Idaho SFW webpage
http://www.sfwidaho.org/SFW/Home.html
Of particular interest to me in Idaho was the list of "conservation projects" they are involved in.
http://www.sfwidaho.org/SFW/Conservation_Projects/Conservation_Projects.html
They list several noble sounding (on the surface) projects but if you actually read them most, if not all, are someone elses existing project they are claiming as SFW or some empty claim.

Aside form a link that takes you to a page where you can buy some spiffy hats I see nothing substantive on their webpage.


http://www.sfwalaska.org/
AlaskaSFW does not list any current projects. Only some rhetoric that sounds good but means next to nothing.
"Alaskans who desire to see fish and game managed for abundance have gathered together to form SFW-Alaska. The Alaska State Constitution calls for managing fish and game on a sustained yield basis for the maximum benefit of Alaskans. By partnering with other sportsmen organizations and consumptive users from across the state, SFW Alaska has already begun working diligently to implement its ?Guaranteed Abundance Management Endeavor? (GAME). The focus of the GAME will be management for quality, abundance, and increased opportunity for Alaska?s consumptive users. Subsistence users, as well as sportsmen benefit from abundance. Simply put, instead of trying to cut thinner pieces of pie for everyone, SFW-Alaska advocates baking more pie."

Oh and their link to merchandise, presumably the spiffy hats, leads you back to the main SFW webpage to a dead link.

The Wyoming webpage http://www.wysfw.org/home is loaded with hot button issues like wolves and feeding programs which have little to nothing to do with what SFW is actually doing in WY. Read the article on the front page about their new "legal counsel" or "senior business development and legal consultant". Note his alma mater.

The last paragraph on WY SFW homepage:
"SFW is one of the most effective sportsmen groups in the Western United States and focuses on land and wildlife conservation for elk, mule deer, bison, moose, wild sheep, mountain goats, antelope, chukar, wild turkey and fisheries - including efforts to restore abundant Halibut and Salmon fisheries in Alaska. SFW has state-run chapters in Arizona, New Mexico, Utah, Wyoming, Idaho, Nevada, Alaska and most recently, Montana, with sportsmen from Colorado, Nebraska and other states and provinces requesting help in building the wildly successful SFW model in their states soon."


Something stinks about SFW and I don't think it has anything to do with the Fish part.

 

[spcheuvront]

NVBighorn;

Sorry, I reread your first post and you asked nothing about other states.

My mistake-

Steve Cheuvront

 

[NVBighorn]

No problem Steve, I think it's great that there were other perspectives presented. I sort of changed from my orignal intent several times as the dialog changed.

 

[ILArcher]

>Fellas;
>
>If some one has gone over
>Arizonas system for auction tags
>
>I didn't read it.
>
>In Az. there are 3 tags
>per species, ( big game
>tags )
>2 tags each for auction to
>the highest bidder, and 1
>tag that goes into the
>super raffel. That's it-
>
>The super raffel has a way
>to buy raffel tickets for
>what ever species you are
>interested in. These tickets go
>for , I think like
>$25.00 per ticket. These tickets
>are drawn before an audience,
>usually by a kid in
>the crowd. I have never
>heard of any problem with
>this system.
>
>The auction tags are applied for
>by the different Wildlife Organizations.
>i.e. RMEF,AES,ADA,MDF,AAF,ABHSS,NWTF, etc.
>
>The AZGF Commission awards these tags
>to organizations who have shown
>their ability to raise big
>dollars for the species.
>These winning organizations then auction these
>tags to the highest bidder.
>
>
>ALL the money comes back to
>the state. If a tag
>sells for $100,000.00 there is
>NO administration fee in Arizona,
>which means ALL $100,000.00 goes
>to wildlife.
>
>I sit on the committee of
>the ADA ( Arizona Deer
>Association )
>that looks at the different projects
>that will be funded with
>the money raised, by the
>auction and raffel tags. Again,
>there are no adminstration fees,
>no management fees, no fees
>of any kind. All the
>money raised are spent for
>the species it was sold
>to benifite.
>
>Steve Cheuvront

spcheuvront, As a nonresident I used to biatch about the Arizona G&F policies I thought discriminatory to NR, such as in-state hunter's ed point, and misleading draw odds publicizing. However, the fact is AZ can not hold a candle to UDOW & SFW. Also in recent years I have not seen any further degradation of NR hunting opportunity in AZ. Congrats on running a high integrity conservation permit program. Seems like you can't get any better. I'm not in favor of any conservation tags but a few used like you guys do seems very logical and fair. Thanks for your posting. I know some other states conservation tag programs are not as bad as Utah, but getting worse, such as WY. Hope right wins out in the end and SFW gets exposed soon.

 

[NVBighorn]

Bump