Question?

[justr_86]

I have a ethics question for you. This is just a scenario, not a true story.
Say you and 4 friends and their kids are deer hunting. Everyone has a tag (9 tags total). One of the kids shoots a buck, ok shot but the bloodtrail has gone for a couple hundred yards. The dad and son have the whole group come help find this deer. Tracking him is very tough and the trail runs out. So you spread out and start working a grid pattern or working the direction the deer is heading. You get away from the group a little ways looking for this deer. You see that he has been bumped by another person in your group but they have no shot, but its a chip shot for you. You see he is struggleing badly but is getting away. Do you shoot and put him out of his misery? If you do does your tag or the kid that got the first bullet in him? Do you let him go and hope you can help get the kid on him again, knowing the chances of catching him are slim due to terrain/private propety.

I personally would shoot, and the kid can put his tag on it. I'm just curious as to what you guys would do? I see absolutely no reason to let him suffer anymore than he already has. Is that considered party hunting?

 

[garywright]

Morning,
IMO you would be correct to shoot the deer and have the young hunter tag it.
gary

 

[travishunter3006]

the same thing happened to me and my friend on an archery hunt when we were both 15. he shot a buck at 50 yards and stuck it right in the butt. after looking and looking for hours we skipped over him a few times. we went back to the truck(1 mile hike) and on our way there we get a call over the radio from his dad who was with us saying that he had the buck at 40 some odd yards. by the time we got there he was dead... long story short after his dad radio'd to us the buck stood and as he did my friend's dad placed an arrow right through its jugular and out its lung.. the deer no longer had to walk with an arrow through its butt and my friend got his deer. though the first shot wasnt fatal, my friend still shot it and tagged it, his father did not. it would be a different story though if the dad didnt have a tag.

 

[cowhorn]

I would agree that the first shot should be the one who tags the buck.I would bet the size of the buck could make for an interesting dilema.I guess in any situation the best judgement would be to finish the animal to prevent any undue suffering.

 

[justr_86]

I don't believe someone that doesn't have a tag should be packing a weapon while looking for a wounded animal. Too many problems can come up.

 

[B_BOP_A_LU_LU]

I might finish it off but the kid's notching his tag!

I love not acting my age,
Damn I love my NASCAR race,
And Hell yes I love my Truck!

 

[AWHOLELOTTABULL]

Finish him and the kid tags it. If it was my deer wounded and someone else had the chance to finish him I would welcome it and gladly tag it.


It's always an adventure!!!

 

[mmwb]

Ethically, I agree with most people's stand, but in my neck of woods I believe the law is interpreted to be "you kill it, you tag it."

 

[2lumpy]

Depend on the officer watching, one would require you tag it, another would allow the first shooter to, (youth is not a factor, in reality). In the literal sense of Utah's law, if the deer is alive and "getting away" or otherwise, if you pull the trigger you own the animal. If you kill it, It could be called "party hunting" by a gung-ho officer. A rational judge would see it your way but who can count on a rational judge it this upside down environment.

Personally, I'd put it down and allow the youngster to tag it if he wanted to. But I'd be looking over my shoulder.

Secondly, suppose it was a 218" perfect 4x4 and you didn't know the young man that hit it first. Then, what would you do? Who's would it be then?

If you know a DWR officer you might post his opinion, would be interesting to see what an enforcement individual would think of our choices.

DC

 

[B_BOP_A_LU_LU]

Well,
I sure as hell wouldn't take the Buck from a kid no matter what it scored,he shot it meaning he wants it!
No I'm not taking candy from a baby!

I love not acting my age,
Damn I love my NASCAR race,
And Hell yes I love my Truck!

 

[Idahoron]

If both people have a tag and both are trying to fill their OWN tag then a CO should look at it different. If the kid shot it and then a adult shot it again to finish it like in the story I think a flip of the coin until the kid won is the way to do it. Now if the adult was next to the kid, and the kid shot and the deer was hit. If the adult quickly shot it and told the kid to tag it I think that would be looked at different. I know that if the kid shoots and the adult does NOT have a tag but shoots, that adult is in a heap of trouble.
I agree the size of the buck would make a big difference but is shouldn't. Ron

 

[2lumpy]

And I believe you would BeBop, your a logical individual, but that don't change the law however, or does it?

DC

 

[justr_86]

if it was getting away from someone I did not know or wasn't hunting with I would not shoot. There's a lot of things that can come from this and there's a lot of things we automatically assume in this position. What if the kids will not tag it after you shoot it? I think most adults would let the kid have the buck nomatter the size, I know I would. I would be happy to help a stranger in this position, after a discussion on what has happened and what they expect from me.

Its sad that ethics have to sometimes contradict the law.

What if the first wound was superficial and you put the killshot in and they decide they don't want it and the only reason you did was to help this kid/adult? Otherwise you wouldn't have shot it.

How do you write a law to cover 2 adults, big buck. The first makes a bad shot but draws blood. He goes to another hunter that kills the buck. 1st bullet gets the buck? Or killshot?

I'm just trying to put some spins on it and try to tie ethics with the law.

 

[2lumpy]

LAST EDITED ON Sep-27-10 AT 08:56PM (MST)[p]I think the regulation is clear, if it's alive and you finish it, you tag it. However, one highway patrolman will give you a warning for speeding, another will charge you to the fullest extent of the law. Enforcement is subjective, the law is not so much so. Be careful what you do that seems logical, if it's against the law.

Now, I'm not saying I know this law, but I thought I did. That's why I suggest you ask an enforcement officer (CO).

It might save someone from a surprise in the field someday. Or are we just interested in blowing smoke back and forth amongst our sorry-selves?

DC

 

[justr_86]

Must be just blowin smoke

 

[IdahoSmitty]

I watched an incident on the middle fork one day that reminds me of this discussion. We were headed back to camp and saw a few guys on a hillside fairly close to us. His girlfriend and another guy were standing on the road watching. We pulled up asked what was going on. It turns out that an older guy had shot a sick looking 2pt that was still in velvet. The deer did not die immediately and this older guy had the younger guy shoot this deer. (My guess was that he was able to head uphill a little faster) so the younger guy ends up shooting the deer helped drag it to the road. Once down to the road the older guy says that he is not tagging it. The younger guy was just helping to end the forkies suffering. Obviously the younger guy gets upset and tells him that he better tag it. Not sure what ended up happening but I know that fish and game got involved. It just goes to show if you think that you are doing the right thing you might be in for a headache. I don't think that I would help finish off a deer for another guy. Unless it is my hunting partner.

 

[c3]

The Utah law is quite clear. You shoot it and it dies, you tag it, wounded first or not. You can't shoot it for the kid "legally".

In the end of the day I wouldn't shoot the wounded critter and I'd run, radio or what ever it took to get the kid back on him so he or she could truly call it their own.

Just my $0.02

Cheers,
Pete

 

[Zeke]

Tough questions for sure and probably the most thought provoking thread on the whole site.

This does and will happen hundreds of times every year across the country.

My brother and I have run into this on several occations since we hunt together.

I know what the law says, "you kill it, you tag it" But we also have to look at reality. I don't want an animal running around with a hole in it when I have an obvious opportunity to do the ethical thing!

Usually the animal is visable to the second shooter BECAUSE it was alreadt hit.

But...... what if it's huge or the first hit is from a stranger? I don't have the answers. Maybe that's why the law is so clear. "You kill it, the animal is yours, wounded or not"

Thanks for actually making me think rather than shake my head at another dumb BS post!

Zeke

 

[justr_86]

LAST EDITED ON Sep-28-10 AT 12:24PM (MST)[p]Even the you kill it law can be bs.

Say a guy hits a big buck in the lungs, the deer is running away and another guy shoots and hits it in the lungs too. Who's deer then?

(The lungs story is true, happened to me 3 years ago)

The reason I bring this up is I've had 2 bucks taken from me, both by guys older than me and I'm still kinda bitter about it. I know nothing can be done now. Just curious as to how you guys see it. I know this can go on and on and on. Can any of you come up with a better way to write the law? Or is it still just left up to the officer involved?

 

[JACO]

A lot of you agree that the law is "You kill it, you tag it" in Utah, but can anyone actually cite this? Show where in the Utah regulations it "is quite clear" - c3. I'm not arguing with or against what you are saying, I would just like to read it myself and know first hand what the law states, but I don't recall ever reading about it in the guidebook.

Kenny, in your case, I would finish off the buck and have the kid tag it, but only in the case that he was in my hunting party. I would not interfere with a stranger's hunt; that is just asking for trouble and will not end well.

Nocked N Loaded

 

[Zeke]

LAST EDITED ON Sep-28-10 AT 04:33PM (MST)[p]Good question. However, dead on it feet is not dead! Too bad for your sour experience. I would be miffed too and it has happened to me on a big Henrys Muley!

The law is not written to read "you kill it, you tag it".

What it does say is "bring to bag" or "reduce to bag" = KILL IT.

When you "reduce to bag" or "bring to bag", you tag! (because it's legally yours at that point.

What you do with it is up to you but the law does not say "you hit it first, you tag it".

This is a grey area for sure and worth the effort to use our brains (I have strained my brain! LOL)

Best regards, Zeke