Question for you horsemen?

justr_86 · Sep 12, 2010

I helped pack out a fellow mm'ers elk last night, he will post pictures and the story soon.

How do you get a horse to let you put the horns and cape on him? I couldn't get within 20 feet of him with the head. He didn't have a problem whatsoever with the meat. I put the head on a frame pack and followed him but when I would get close he would walk down the trail sideways. Any suggestions? The head and cape was a heavy SOB! I don't wanna pack it if I have a horse!

eelgrass · Sep 12, 2010

I don't know the answer to your horse question, but it sure was nice of you to help out a friend like that. Very well done justr_86!

Eel

KBKILLER · Sep 12, 2010

well i'm no expert- by no means-, but i spent a little time packing horses and mules. it starts at your house, get him used to it before it's crunch time.
some horses and mules dont do well with the smell of dead animals. so an old trick is to take Vicks vapor rub, rub some in their nose and they cant smell "dead".

if it was just the cape, i'd say the smell was probably the problem, but with the antlers, it could be similer to waiving your arms behind a horse unexpectedly, they can be jumpy. thats where you could find a rack at your house to get him used to it. they also make "blinder" like they use on race horses. if they cant smell it or see it you shouldn't have a problem.

one more trick that you might have done or already know, mut a stick under the main beams of the bull , with the "tines" up. it's imortant they are poking the horse, kinda like spurs.

in the end, the more they do it, the better they will get.

justr_86 · Sep 12, 2010

LAST EDITED ON Sep-12-10 AT 11:37AM (MST)[p]A couple weeks ago he let me pick up a spikex2 elk skull off an anthill without any problems. This bull was not a spikex2 (330-340 class) and it was fresh. Maybe I will try the vicks trick.

Thanks EEL.

nickman · Sep 12, 2010

Put a sack over the skull.......if they can't see the eyes they should not mind.

swampmule · Sep 12, 2010

The old fashion way is to tie his head down low to a tree and bleed him .What that is get some blood from the elk or deer and then rub it in his nose then get back .He may go off like a Apollo rocket or he may take it and be alright but I think he will go like a Apollo rocket.

The surprising thing about young fools is how many survive to become old fools.

Livetahunt · Sep 12, 2010

A true pack horse or mule is bomb proof,have packed many deer out hole. In the beginning put a hide,head,ect in his pen,let him live with it,tie it to his tail letem drag it a few days. The first thing i do is put blood on the nose of a green horse before trying to load. hope this helps John

Gator · Sep 13, 2010

You will have to do the training at home first, It just like the saddle first time they have to be broke to do it. Never try and do it on the mountain that how bad wrecks happen.
I used a old deer hide hanging on the corral to get them use to the smell, Horns I started with a small set and work on them all day to get them worked up to a bigger set after about 10 days of this they just stand there and it old hat to them now.
Each spring I have to do a reminder for them.I do the same with the hobbles.
The stick to keep the points up high and not sticking them is huge, one or two pokes and the training just got harder.

"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".

justr_86 · Sep 13, 2010

I went out and was working with him a little this morning. I saddled him up, put the panierd (spelling) on and grabbed a raghorn 6 point my dad killed a few years ago and put them on him and he didn't give a crap about them.... Led him around and did just fine. Maybe its what nickman said to put a bag over the elk head? Guess we will have to go try it again? Maybe we will use him again and I can pay more attention now I know a little more of what to look for?

Roy · Sep 13, 2010

+1 Gator - you have to start training them young. If you are not ready for a mountain rodeo then don't try it on the mountain with a horse that isn't trained to pack. Also, with some horses there is just no 2 ways around it, they don't like it and never will.

UTROY
Proverbs 21:19 (why I hunt!)

desertdeer · Sep 13, 2010

LAST EDITED ON Sep-13-10 AT 01:44PM (MST)[p]i have a good mix of horses from old to young and from bomb proof to bronky. each horse has its own personality but i have packed on all of them. i usually get some blood on my hand and rub them on the nose. then put some right in the nostrils. after that just move real slow and keep at it until he accepts the pack. you cant really train with a freshly killed carcass at home so just get them used to being loaded and unloaded however you can. i start with a regular saddle and two bags of rocks about 60 pounds each hooked on the horn. if they buck with that they swing around and give them a good whoopin. after they accept those i havent had many more problems. a little round pen work at home and a slow calm approach in the hills will get most loads packed. i hope this is readable and helps you out.

Roy · Sep 13, 2010

Good advice desertdeer. A trick my dad did with his colts was to tie a fresh hide over their head and lead them around, got them use to the smell, then most of the time he would leave the hide or part of it hanging on the fence and after a while, those babies were playing with them.

We had one mare that never did get used to it - you couldn't get her near the blood. She must have had a traumatic experience when she was a baby because she wouldn't take to it at all, or my dad didn't work with her enough because he always had other horses that would.

UTROY
Proverbs 21:19 (why I hunt!)

justr_86 · Sep 13, 2010

Tonight I walked into the field and whistled and he came running to me. My dads neighbor had killed a little buck 2 days ago. I tied him up and walked over to him with the deer skin. Let him smell it, he didn't care about it. I put it on his back and he was a little nervous for a second. So I left it there for about 20 minutes. I grabbed the elk horns and wrapped the hide around them to look like it did the other day. He didn't care then either. He would let me put it on his back, rub it on his sides anything I wanted. I don't know what his deal was.... Guess we will try him again, hopefully this year on my moms bookcliffs hunt or the anybull rifle hunt if we get lucky! Thanks for your suggestions guys I appreciate it!

264X300 · Sep 14, 2010

Horses by nature are flight animals, meaning in the wild, they are prey so they are naturally skittish. Always looking over their shoulder so to speak.

The first time your horse saw the antlers and head, you were probably moving it so his fear sinces kicke in. If it would have been me at that point, I'd have probably put head and antlers on the ground a little ways from him and slowly tried to get him to move towards and sniff it for a while. He may have relaxed after a while and let you put it on him or he may have just snorted, backed up, stepped sideways and just plain not wanted anything to do with it. Everyone who said training is best done at home is 100% correct as you don't need a loose and/or injured horse on the mountain and you certainly don't need you hurt bad. You did the right thing by packing it out yourself that time. Good horse since

could not resist.

Anyway, Since he has responded well after your little adventure, it sounds like he will eventually let you do what you want the next time on the mountain. Just give him time to adjust a little. At home he feels safe since he knows his surroundings, but on the mountain, his flight sinces may be in full bloom. Give him time to see its not going to hurt him and he will probably pack it out for you.

One other thing, don't show fear because he will feel it in your actions and you will be packing another rack out. There is a difference between moving slowly and showing fear.

My two cents (may be all I have)
David

Roy · Sep 14, 2010

LAST EDITED ON Sep-14-10 AT 08:58PM (MST)[p]Great points 264 - on the money. The mountain (or the arena, or the track) are whole different ball games. They are already half-spooked by all the unfamiliarity of it all, new smells, new sounds, new sights, etc. They are already on edge.

Sounds like you are making some progress Kenny - he must have been spooked by it the first time. Keep on working with him, sounds like he is a pretty good horse.

UTROY
Proverbs 21:19 (why I hunt!)

300Winnie · Sep 15, 2010

I had an experience that is just about the reverse of this one. It has perplexed me for serveral years. In 2004 I shot a raghorn bull on the last day of the season. I had my young nephew with me and all we had was our saddle horses as I really wasn't expecting success. We had the pack equipment in the trailer just in case, but we ended up on the hill with a dead elk with just riding saddles. We got the bull broken down and ready to pack and were just getting ready to ride back to the trailhead to get the pack saddle and panniers when two hunters rounded the corner. They asked what our plan was and when I told them they said "let's save you some time. Take this set of saddle panniers and lets get that bull out of here". We loaded up my horse with the elk and took off. I carried the head out of there on my back while leading my saddle horse loaded with elk. It was only about three miles, but my horse followed me like a puppy dog all the way out. Never side stepped loading him, never shy'd away while leading him. Nothing, and I mean nothing. That was his first experience.

Since then he has been around dead elk every year, and every year it is the same. If we load him it isn't without him carrying on. He wraps himself up tight moving away from you and the whole time he is snorting to beat the band. Getting him loaded is a three man deal...and it isn't fun. Once loaded he does just fine. When you get back and unload him he looks at the parts and starts snorting again until it is out of site.

If we don't load him up with the elk, he's still at full attention as soon as you come into sight with the elk. If you get very close he really goes to snorting.

I don't know if I ruined him on that first trip, or whether the heavens knew I had a bull elk down with a 13 year old boy for help.

300

BuckSnort · Sep 15, 2010

Here's an example of what not to do...

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