Proposed 2013 Ut Sheep #s

[littlebighorn]

Well I was just able to look over the proposed Utah Sheep tag numbers and it looks bleak for Resident Utah Desert Sheep tag hopefuls!
A total of 6 less Desert tags for Utah Residents, but an increase of 2 NR Desert tags. (Go figure?)
The bright side is there are 4 more Utah Resident Rocky permits(All of them Cali Ram permits) and 2 more NR Rocky tags.

Here is the Breakdown:
Rockys
Rattlesnake -1 Res +1 NR
Newfys +3 Res +1 NR
Pilot Mt. +1 Res
Stansbury +1 Res
No change in Nine Mile, Baretop, Sheep Creek

Deserts
Escalante -2 Res
Potash -2 Res +1NR
Virgin River +1 Res
Lockhart -1 Res
Dirty Devil -1 Res +1NR
N. San Raf. -1 NR
S. San Raf. +1 NR
Zion -1 Res

I have already made my rant about the NR Expo sheep tags so now I will just shut my mouth and keep my fingers crossed.
Good Luck to everyone

 

[PleaseDear]

Dang Rick----

Looks like the only way a guy can get a Ram tag in 'tardville is to go bid one, or just die of old age with boo-coo worthless points.

Keep the faith.

Robb

 

[tallbuck1]

Depressing for sure... Would like to know as to why tags were cut but yet a 2 more were given to NR's for DBS.



Tallbuck1

 

[littlebighorn]

While I wasn't in any meetings to know for sure, I am told our Big Game Coordinator didn't catch the change until late in the game, and then he thought it was no big deal to let it go for a year.
Go express your feelings at your RAC about it so it doesn't happen next year as well.

 

[Zeke]

The only thing that come to mind is; "well, that sucks"!

It looks like the bonus point tags will be reduced to the point that it will take another decade for the top guys to draw.

I'm still hopeful for LBH and my son for this year but things are not looking good for the sheep or sheep hunters.

Thanks LBH for the depressing news.

Zeke

 

[Zeke]

Maybe next year they can make it up to the residents. ha

I'm all for the nonres guys, since I am one everywhere but here, but the % are supposed to be in line every year.

This thing is turning into a mess and it will put the applicants on their ear with the reduced tags and no tag increases in sight.

Next year will probably see even more unit-switching and I'll bet there was already a bunch of it this year. Time will tell.

It still sucks!

Zeke

 

[Bobmuley]

Is there some kind of statute language for NR tags....because, even from my side of line, that doesn't make sense for a net loss of anything to be felt more by the residents than the NRs.

But then again, I gave up trying to make sense of "game management" long ago. Now it's about $ and people management.

 

[Zeke]

Hey Bob,
Is it game management or "game" management? LOL
I think it's a big game at this point.

Zeke

 

[treedagain]

LAST EDITED ON Mar-29-13 AT 11:53AM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Mar-29-13 AT 11:52?AM (MST)

I for one think it is a crock of something smelly and saw it coming.... i feel they KNEW what they were doing all along...they had sheep counts done in NOV

total of
6 NR only desert tags 5 draw 1 expo RESIDENT 32 draw
5 NR only rocky tags 4 draw 1 expo RESIDENT 36 draw

PLUS
6 desert CONSERVATION
7 rocky CONSERVATION

LBH posted:

"While I wasn't in any meetings to know for sure, I am told our Big Game Coordinator didn't catch the change until late in the game, and then he thought it was no big deal to let it go for a year."

this is unacceptable IMHO, did not notice the change? BS

here are a couple posts i made a few MONTHS ago

are we looking at a bump in sheep tags in UT?

this year they are giving 4 desert and 3 rocky/cali tags in the draw plus the 1 rocky and 1 desert at the expo to NR only....so are we to assume at least 50 desert and 40 cali/rocky tags for residents???

2013 #'s
5 desert and 4 rocky/cali are NR only

last year they only gave 31 rocky/cali tags (29 R and 2NR) and 39 desert total tags (36R and 3NR) residents and non-residents in the draw plus 7 desert tags in auctions and expo draws and 10 rocky/cali in auctions and expo draws...of which 1 NR desert and 1 rocky/cali NR which put the NR pool bigger than 10%


2012 total tag #'s
46 desert (39 draw, 7 other)
41 rocky/cali (31 draw, 10 other)

so roughly 15% of the desert tags were auctioned or expoed
and 25% of the rocky/cali auctioned or expoed

FYI i got these #'s by comparing what tags were given in the general draw and by 2012 harvest figures...


AND


as i read LBH's post i realised that i missed a desert tag
so currenty we have

5 deserts in the MAIN UT DRAW for non-residents
1 desert in the EXPO DRAW for non-residents only

so are to assume 60 desert tags??? i kind of doubt that!!!!

for the sake of my resident sheep hunting friends i hope YOUR tag was not allocated in the NR pool

of course no offense to you NR hunters but i am rooting for the local boys and girls to have a shot at them....

 

[Zeke]

He didn't realize what was happening?????? Really????

Treed nailed it!

"Ridiculous behavior" is the new slogan to describe what's happening.

Zeke

 

[Deerlove]

So much for the 5 percent rule on wealth tags huh???

 

[PleaseDear]

I have always felt that the Con Org rip off tag$ should be on a 5 year rotation.....we have NOTHING of VALUE from them other than the blame game of disease--blah--blah--blah...for a in the sheep draw tag reduction BUT the Con Org sheep tag$ remain the same...WTF??

The $cam Po (expo) tags are way overboard/rip-off for the $5 return....that I see is actually $3.18 back to actual wildlife/habitat???

Maybe we should all get a Ballot vote pettion going to put the Con Org tag$ and $cam Po -expo- tag$ back into the General draw for 4 out of 5 years.....just think about 19 years of loss draw tags + lot's of tag's that could have been drawn.......

Give the 'Jump To The Front Of The Line $$$' crowd a 1 year window to blow all that bigshot $$$ and still have the Little Man Bragging rights of Look What I Bought Harvest$ ?

Ressy and non-ressy % of tags all inclusive.

Robb

PS--Trammer and Extreme could hold hands and be very Brag-ing-able every 5th year......

 

[littlebighorn]

LAST EDITED ON Mar-30-13 AT 09:18PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Mar-30-13 AT 09:15?PM (MST)

RACs need to hear your feelings guys.
If nothing else at least email them. Otherwise it could easily go unnoticed...kind of like with our Big Game Coordinator.

Here is what I just sent:

Dear RAC Member,
First let me say I appreciate your willingness to serve on this committee. I know it is not easy to hear constant complaints and I appreciate your time and effort.
That being said, I want to express my dismay that the Proposed 2013 Resident/Non-Resident Desert Sheep tag numbers are suddenly showing way more favor to Non-Residents than ever before. The current proposal has Resident Hunters losing 6 sheep tags, while Non-Residents are actually gaining 2 additional tags. In addition to the current proposal, two Non-Resident only tags were awarded at the Western Hunting Expo (In the best hunting units in the state).
There is no question that our Desert Sheep populations are in serious trouble and need a tag reduction, but why are we only reducing the numbers in the Resident tag pool?
As a Utah resident, I have patiently been applying for a Desert Sheep tag for over 40 years. Thanks to accumulated preference points, I will draw one soon, but let's not forget that Residents, paying the State taxes, provide the lion's share of support for our Desert Sheep. I don't mind being neighborly to our NR friends, but don't forget those of us who live here.
Sincerely,
Rick Ellison
American Fork

If nothing else, copy my email and add your name to it if you are so inclined.

 

[Trophy_Taker]

Thanks for posting LBH. My email is sent!

 

[huntinfanatic]

When I asked Anis about the expo tags at the southern RAC meeting I was told the expo sheep tags don't count towards the NR quota for the state draw. That shocked me but what suprised me even more was the fact that I was the only person that showed up to say anything about the bighorn sheep.

 

[littlebighorn]

It is outrageous that NR only Expo tags are not counted on the NR quota!!! I did not know that!

I applaud you huntinfantastic, for showing up and voicing your opinion! At least one person did.
Unfortunately most hunters are all talk and no action!

Because of business conflict, I can't be to the Central RAC (which is where I live) but I did email every RAC Member and I was pleased that I actually got a response from one of them saying they appreciated my concern and they would address it.

Hopefully others will attend or write.
Thanks huntinfantastic!

 

[Trammer]

PleaseDear, dont include me as a supporter of SFW. I am ahead of you guys on this one. I recognized the failure of Utahs Sheep program and its cause (complacency and the corrupt relationship between SFW and the DWR)about 12 years ago.
The fact is that without the introduced sheep from our neighbors to the west, who do a far better job than we do (with half the budget)and the addition of the Zion Tags. Sheep that the buffoons claim to have "discovered" in 2008 but the rest of us have been watching and reporting on since the mid 1990s.We would have about 20 Desert tags. No increase in 15 years.
I knew we were in big trouble in 2001 when I was looking threw my scope at 3 lions who were roaming within a band of Desert Sheep on the north San Rafael. (The Female lion was teaching the cubs to hunt sheep)
I did the right thing and called Bill Bates the Sheep biologist for the North San Rafael to gain his permission to pull the trigger on the lions. Bill told me not to kill them...now there is 1 tag on the North San Rafael.
The fact is Utah DWR is a failure at managing sheep. If you minus out the sheep that were obtained from other states and just look at what Utah has done with its own sheep during a time when there has been an explosion of money for wildlife. You will find no increase in sheep numbers.You will also find that any increase in sheep numbers in Utah that are attributable to good sheep management, are due, to Good Sheep management done in other states, by other states.

 

[elkantlers]

Trammer, The North San Rafael is a quota unit for lion that runs 365 days a year and to my knowledge has never filled or closed. All you need is a quota tag and you are free to shoot away. I hope you get one.

I have spent alot of time in the NSR and I saw sheep coughing three winters ago and now the sheep numbers are way down.

 

[treedagain]

i maybe wrong but back in 2001 the NSR was not a harvest objective unit

How to start an argument online:
1. Express an opinion
2. Wait

 

[Trammer]

Harvest objective unit or not, what good is a Sheep Biologist who hasnt got the authority to order the removal of Sheep eating Lions while they are snacking on sheep? Our Biologists (just Like the rest of us) are so tied us in regulatory nonsense to get anything done. Dont you think DWR ought to be lobbying the legislature for the removal of protection of Lions in Sheep core use areas? NO, they would rather lobby the legislature for another silly law like requiring people to have a license or permission slip to pick up shed horns.

Additionally, elkantlers, I first observed Sheep coughing on the North San Rafael in 1994 and every couple of years since then. I am not convinced that the DWR claim of disease on the North San Rafael is not just an attempt by the Biologists to make it seem like the crash was due to something outside of their control.In 2009 Bill Bates told me (and I had 2 wildlife board members with me at the time) that the decline was "due to ATV use" he went on to say "we think the sheep are still there, they have just been pushed into areas that we do not survey"....OK Bill...we wont shoot the Lions...oh and Bill nice "discovery" on those Zions Sheep...jacka$$